Ways to install an RNG ceiling on loot drops

dpencil · May 2016

Here are some suggestions of ways to fight the endless, hopeless, and frustrating RNG grind many players experience when trying to farm vMA weapons or a particular set piece. Please help let the devs know this is a serious issue that needs better solutions than increasing drop rates.

dpencil · May 2016

Add "The Alchemist" who can transmutate several pieces you have from one set into a specific piece from that set (or different vMA wep)

Apologies for the typo on option 5. It should be read "traded in for a specific item"

phreatophile · May 2016

Keep RNG but make traits re-craftable

Recraft traits is my favorite, but any method of reducing the shear joy killing drudgery with minimal hope of sucess that we have now is great. I've been running dailies in Wrothgar for months for a dozen pieces of VR16 gear, wading through hundreds of VR15 pieces that ought not even drop from a daily for a VR16 character, and only 1 of the pieces had a trait that wasn't garbage.

I'm done with that crap. I can craft descent gear and go enjoy the game without the frustration of such a laughably bad system making me want to do the Office Space dance on my computer tower.

Fix it, its broken.

Shadesofkin · May 2016

Add a Token currency that drops from bosses and can be traded in tour specific item

Tokens, tokens for everyone.

Tokens for undaunted, tokens for Maelstrom, tokens for helms, tokens for Trials.

dpencil · May 2016

Add "The Alchemist" who can transmutate several pieces you have from one set into a specific piece from that set (or different vMA wep)

One extra little thing, "The Alchemist" could also potentially be the means of upgrading jewelry quality. Bring him 5 pendants from one set, get a purple. Bring him 10 purple, get a gold. Something like that.

Morbash · May 2016

Keep RNG but make everything sellable

I'd be okay with options 3-6. I don't think option 2 would be enough on its own. I would like to see option 2 implemented alongside at least one or more of the other options on the poll. I'd also like to see re-craftable styles.

With that being said, some of the more prestigious BoP sets need to be changed to BoE. The vast majority of set pieces in this game are BoP, and in my opinion, that's a problem for the economy. This simple change would also help tremendously with the RNG grind.

MasterSpatula · May 2016

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that "do the same thing over and over again hoping to get lucky with RNG" is an inherently bad design that should have been put out of its misery a decade before ESO was even thought of.

Inklings · May 2016

Add a Token currency that drops from bosses and can be traded in tour specific item

Anyone who votes "No change" is clearly a terrorist.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

None of the above, instead... (please specify)

I really don't understand why anyone who is upset with the results of RNG won't just list the specific items they want removed from the loot table in specific events.

dpencil · May 2016

Add "The Alchemist" who can transmutate several pieces you have from one set into a specific piece from that set (or different vMA wep)

@NewBlacksmurf There are some items that are probably truly pointless because of their combination of wep/armor type, trait, and set bonus. But I think the more pervasive problem is getting something that simply isn't useful to you. Maybe you don't have a top level character of each class and mag/stam variant, or you already have 3 of that exact piece. There are plenty of situations in which the loot you get is disappointing. We are discussing ways of alleviating that disappointment, even if the value of an unwanted piece is still relatively small, it would at least be worth SOMETHING through most of these options as opposed to simply being decon or vendor trash.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

None of the above, instead... (please specify)

dpencil wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf There are some items that are probably truly pointless because of their combination of wep/armor type, trait, and set bonus. But I think the more pervasive problem is getting something that simply isn't useful to you. Maybe you don't have a top level character of each class and mag/stam variant, or you already have 3 of that exact piece. There are plenty of situations in which the loot you get is disappointing. We are discussing ways of alleviating that disappointment, even if the value of an unwanted piece is still relatively small, it would at least be worth SOMETHING through most of these options as opposed to simply being decon or vendor trash.

So then it's just reads as a complaint with no suggestion to make clear what you expect ZOS to do to possibly address or resolve your comment. Not being rude but when you read it from their point of view, they would ask, Hey, what specifically are you wanting or not wanting?

I have a max character but I don't complaint about RNG as I understand it. B
If you understand it, and you have an idea of the amount of items in a loot table, then you start to see that around 150 attempts, you'll start to get an idea on the odds

Example....a very old game called Diablo 2 I did runs for loot.
I ran Mephisto, Pendleskin, Diablo and Baal on Hell difficulty.

I would do approx 50-100 runs and keep maybe 3 items. It's no different here and prob the Loot table is very similar but the time it takes per run is a lot longer. If you want better drops, then the items in the loot table that aren't of value to you in that experience should be asked to be removed out of one and placed into another.

Make sense?

Nénlindë · May 2016

No change, just pray to RNGesus

Yeah.

Marktoneth3 · May 2016

Add a Token currency that drops from bosses and can be traded in tour specific item

RNGesus and me

MarrazzMist · May 2016

Add "The Alchemist" who can transmutate several pieces you have from one set into a specific piece from that set (or different vMA wep)

This is my favourite, though the it might be too cluncky immersion wise. Praying rgn is most uneffective, but it would be my second choise.

MrDerrikk · May 2016

Add a Token currency that drops from bosses and can be traded in tour specific item

I left when they implemented the Golden Merchant after saying we should have tokens from the start, and look where that got us. Not much has changed, so they really, really need to add in a token/item/currency thing like the trophies you get in IC for rare drops.

dpencil · May 2016

Add "The Alchemist" who can transmutate several pieces you have from one set into a specific piece from that set (or different vMA wep)

@NewBlacksmurf Sorry man, I don't see how that follows at all. I made 5 cogent suggestions to the devs in the poll. All of which, if implemented would have an impact on improving the situation of hunting for that one specific piece or set in a particular size and trait. Asking for perfectly good items for someone else to be removed from the loot table because they don't work for me is obviously ludicrous. The problem isn't inherently the loot table, assuming most of the items are at least somewhat desirable. Perhaps more will be desirable with DB's trait changes going in. The issue still remains that if I have determined I need a light divines sash, I could be rolling the dice for a looooooong time before I see it, even longer if I want say a sharpened lightning staff from vMA. Of course, I may get plenty of "good" items in the mean time, but they don't help me specifically because they are not the type I am looking for. So...the idea to give some kind of perk or system that you can accumulate over time with stuff that you don't want to work up to getting that one thing that has eluded you in the RNG rolls. Good for you that you don't care if it takes you 150 runs of something to get what you want. Not everyone is comfortable with not knowing whether it will be 10, 100, or 1000 times before they see what they're after. Add to that the time investment of dungeon runs, not to mention vMA. Not everyone can even play the game enough to rack up so many runs. It is worth having a system in place that mitigates the RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG that we currently deal with. It's not just complaining. It's facing an issue that is recognized by a vast majority of players and trying to develop meaningful suggestions for the devs to consider. Hence the poll.

Morimizo · May 2016

Some combination of options 2-6 (please specify)

I like all of your suggestions 2 thru 5; retrait the gear; NO MORE Bind-on-Pickup (loathe this in any form, for the market especially); token system or trading system so that no reward is wasted; and the Alchemist sounds like it has great potential.

CaptainBeerDude · May 2016

No change, just pray to RNGesus

Inklings wrote: »

Anyone who votes "No change" is clearly a terrorist.

Do you even grind, Bro?

daemonios · May 2016

Keep RNG but make everything sellable

Killing the BoP scourge would let players trade among them so that if RNG doesn't smile on you, it's still possible to get that set you're working for. You can sell good pieces you don't need and buy the ones you want. It would promote the game economy in a way recrafting/tokens wouldn't.

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

Keep RNG but make everything sellable

Keep RNG but make everything sellable

OR

Add a Token currency that drops from bosses and can be traded in tour specific item

lathbury · May 2016

None of the above, instead... (please specify)

a smarter RNG sytem that means the more times you kill a boss /open a bag without the item you want the higher the chances on subsequent attempts.

KingWhyteboi · May 2016

Keep RNG but make everything sellable

let me sell everything so i can makes tons of gold and give me a reason to do pve for once

Rune_Relic · May 2016

Its taken a while but i think I understand now.
ZOS hates grinders and grinding.
So they are trolling them in the best way possible.
Making them grind for eternity.

Perhaps its the game world equivalent of purgatory

GaldorP · May 2016

Add "The Alchemist" who can transmutate several pieces you have from one set into a specific piece from that set (or different vMA wep)

Any change that prevents the extremely unlucky player from not getting anything they need after 50 runs of Maelstrom Arena or 500 Wrothgar daily quests.

Edit: I really like the "Alchemist" idea if he can exchange traits or one Maelstrom Weapon for another with the same trait and charges a fee that includes a low amount of gold (maybe 5'000-10'000) and some rare materials (that could be new materials obtained anywhere in the game or a certain amount of green, blue, and purple upgrade materials). Also, changes should be one-time per item only and make the item bound if it isn't already.
A token system would also be great, of course.
Or making items bind on equip instead of bind on pickup.
Anything

KingWhyteboi · May 2016

Keep RNG but make everything sellable

GaldorP wrote: »

Any change that prevents the extremely unlucky player from not getting anything they need after 50 runs of Maelstrom Arena or 500 Wrothgar daily quests.

Edit: I really like the "Alchemist" idea if he can exchange traits or one Maelstrom Weapon for another with the same trait and charges a fee that includes a low amount of gold (maybe 5'000-10'000) and some rare materials (that could be new materials obtained anywhere in the game or a certain amount of green, blue, and purple upgrade materials). Also, changes should be one-time per item only and make the item bound if it isn't already.
A token system would also be great, of course.
Or making items bind on equip instead of bind on pickup.
Anything

if it isnt bop already... cant tell if joking everything is bop lol

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

None of the above, instead... (please specify)

dpencil wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf Sorry man, I don't see how that follows at all. I made 5 cogent suggestions to the devs in the poll. All of which, if implemented would have an impact on improving the situation of hunting for that one specific piece or set in a particular size and trait. Asking for perfectly good items for someone else to be removed from the loot table because they don't work for me is obviously ludicrous. The problem isn't inherently the loot table, assuming most of the items are at least somewhat desirable. Perhaps more will be desirable with DB's trait changes going in. The issue still remains that if I have determined I need a light divines sash, I could be rolling the dice for a looooooong time before I see it, even longer if I want say a sharpened lightning staff from vMA. Of course, I may get plenty of "good" items in the mean time, but they don't help me specifically because they are not the type I am looking for. So...the idea to give some kind of perk or system that you can accumulate over time with stuff that you don't want to work up to getting that one thing that has eluded you in the RNG rolls. Good for you that you don't care if it takes you 150 runs of something to get what you want. Not everyone is comfortable with not knowing whether it will be 10, 100, or 1000 times before they see what they're after. Add to that the time investment of dungeon runs, not to mention vMA. Not everyone can even play the game enough to rack up so many runs. It is worth having a system in place that mitigates the RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG that we currently deal with. It's not just complaining. It's facing an issue that is recognized by a vast majority of players and trying to develop meaningful suggestions for the devs to consider. Hence the poll.

I see that you don't understand what I'm sharing.

I think you do have the basic idea tho and maybe even understand RNG. If not here is what I'm saying.
Use this http://www.randomnumbergenerator.com/
Use the other tabs too

Think of your item and all the other items that can drop, this may put it into perspective of how many runs it takes based on what all is in the loot table. For you to have better results, you must remove non-desired possibilities.

That's how you "fix" it
The only other suggestion is for more items to drop at once as in doubling the loot to raise your odds if nothing else in the loot table is changed.

daemonios · May 2016

Keep RNG but make everything sellable

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf Sorry man, I don't see how that follows at all. I made 5 cogent suggestions to the devs in the poll. All of which, if implemented would have an impact on improving the situation of hunting for that one specific piece or set in a particular size and trait. Asking for perfectly good items for someone else to be removed from the loot table because they don't work for me is obviously ludicrous. The problem isn't inherently the loot table, assuming most of the items are at least somewhat desirable. Perhaps more will be desirable with DB's trait changes going in. The issue still remains that if I have determined I need a light divines sash, I could be rolling the dice for a looooooong time before I see it, even longer if I want say a sharpened lightning staff from vMA. Of course, I may get plenty of "good" items in the mean time, but they don't help me specifically because they are not the type I am looking for. So...the idea to give some kind of perk or system that you can accumulate over time with stuff that you don't want to work up to getting that one thing that has eluded you in the RNG rolls. Good for you that you don't care if it takes you 150 runs of something to get what you want. Not everyone is comfortable with not knowing whether it will be 10, 100, or 1000 times before they see what they're after. Add to that the time investment of dungeon runs, not to mention vMA. Not everyone can even play the game enough to rack up so many runs. It is worth having a system in place that mitigates the RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG that we currently deal with. It's not just complaining. It's facing an issue that is recognized by a vast majority of players and trying to develop meaningful suggestions for the devs to consider. Hence the poll.

I see that you don't understand what I'm sharing.

I think you do have the basic idea tho and maybe even understand RNG. If not here is what I'm saying.
Use this http://www.randomnumbergenerator.com/
Use the other tabs too

Think of your item and all the other items that can drop, this may put it into perspective of how many runs it takes based on what all is in the loot table. For you to have better results, you must remove non-desired possibilities.

That's how you "fix" it
The only other suggestion is for more items to drop at once as in doubling the loot to raise your odds if nothing else in the loot table is changed.

No, that's not how you fix it. Removing "undesirables" may make it more likely for you to get the item you want, but it doesn't in any way guarantee it. You may still do 1000 runs and not get the item, simply because something else keeps dropping instead. Furthermore, what @dpencil is saying is that what you consider undesirable might actually be useful to someone else, so not only are you not fixing the issue, you're depriving others of a chance at an item.

Let's take Molag Kena as an example. She can drop no set items, gloves (or is it arms? anyway, for argument's sake it's irrelevant) from any of the 6 sets from vWGT, or a Kena hat. For any set item you can get any of four traits: divines, infused, reinforced and well-fitted. For the hats, in addition to the trait you can also get any of the 3 armour weights. Now assume for argument's sake that each possibility has exactly the same chance. There would then be 37 possibilities: no loot (1), gloves (6 sets*4 traits=24) or hat (3 weights*4 traits=12). If you remove all well-fitted drops, you're simply removing 9 possibilities from the loot table, so your chance at, say, a Heavy/Divines hat is now 1/26 instead of 1/37. But you still can't guarantee that you'll get a Heavy/Divines hat. You might even not get a hat at all.

So no, the loot tables aren't the root of the issue. They just make it worse. You can fix the actual problem without touching the loot tables.

[EDIT] Since you're linking to RNG "theory", you must know that a 1/37 chance does NOT mean you're guaranteed to get an item by the time you finish your 37th run. What it means is that EACH TIME YOU LOOT, you get the same 1/37 chance. So you could in theory loot until the Universe goes cold and never get that item you wanted.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · May 2016

None of the above, instead... (please specify)

Fix the entire RNG.
And stop being so bloody cheap.

GaldorP · May 2016

Add "The Alchemist" who can transmutate several pieces you have from one set into a specific piece from that set (or different vMA wep)

KingWhyteboi wrote: »

GaldorP wrote: »

Any change that prevents the extremely unlucky player from not getting anything they need after 50 runs of Maelstrom Arena or 500 Wrothgar daily quests.

Edit: I really like the "Alchemist" idea if he can exchange traits or one Maelstrom Weapon for another with the same trait and charges a fee that includes a low amount of gold (maybe 5'000-10'000) and some rare materials (that could be new materials obtained anywhere in the game or a certain amount of green, blue, and purple upgrade materials). Also, changes should be one-time per item only and make the item bound if it isn't already.
A token system would also be great, of course.
Or making items bind on equip instead of bind on pickup.
Anything

if it isnt bop already... cant tell if joking everything is bop lol

Was thinking about sets like Agility or Willpower, not just stuff from Maelstrom Arena or Wrothgar dailies.

EsoRecon · May 2016

Add a Token currency that drops from bosses and can be traded in tour specific item

for the people that said make everything sellable... does that mean you guys want vMA weps to be sellable at guild traders?!?!? cause if that is so you're all crazy

Daraugh · May 2016

None of the above, instead... (please specify)

I'd rather have all the traits desirable in some way. More diversity of builds is much more interesting than everyone hoping for the same drop.

A token system is just an extended grind. Grind whatever is fastest and grab it off of a vendor. Done. Boring and dumb. It makes no sense from a storytelling point of view and makes for mind numbing game play.

Making them all tradeable just means the guild stores will be full of well-fitted stuff nobody wanted anyway and makes the economy, such as it is, even worse.

Once DB drops and the reworked traits are live, there may just be some fresh build ideas to get out of the divines/infused rut.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Ways to install an RNG ceiling on loot drops

Ways to install an RNG ceiling on loot drops 99 votes