What Happened to Gaming & Gaming Communities

RDMyers65b14_ESO · May 2016

I am going to have to say that I don't feel that it is a generation thing. I have met some great people on this game who are younger than my own children. I have also met on the game some who are my age that are very 'entitled' and not pleasant to be around. Maturity has little to do with age anymore.

Yes, gaming has changed greatly over the years. I go all the way back to Pong. I went online the first time with a 300 baud modem when most people had just couplers. In the early 90s, I found muds and stayed on muds until Nov 2013 when I was privileged enough to become a beta tester for this game. Maybe I am the one wearing the rose colored glasses as I still find those who help each other. I find those who can share a laugh in TS as we work for a common goal as we take keeps. I still see honor among the players who I am lucky enough to call friend no matter their age. It still exists.

Yes, there will always be those who seek to find loopholes. They have always existed. There has always been those who take pleasure in the suffering of others. There has always been those who need to feel superior to others because of the fact that they are suffering from insecurity in some way. The anonymity of the internet does seem to let people get away with more as they can hide behind the screen. But there are still good people on the Internet and this game too.

Yes, the forums seem to be rather negative but I feel that most of the negativity comes from frustration, not meanness. People are not posting in order to destroy things for the sake of being destructive. When they cry 'nerf this', it is because of an experience that they have had. No two people on this planet have exactly the same experiences. People grumble all the time (I am guilty of grumbling about damn nightblades quite often) but grumbling doesn't make one a bad person, it just makes us human. There is nothing wrong with being human. We may not always agree, but that's perfectly fine.

Lysette · May 2016

300 Baud?- That is about 132kb/hr - not per second, per hour - incredible.

MattT1988 · May 2016

What happened? Pretty simple really. People started taking gaming waaaay more seriously then it should ever have been. People started thinking that being good at video games is actually a life achievement. Misdirected competitiveness seeped in resulting in over inflated and undeserving egos from people who believe being good at video games makes them king of the world. Not all good gamers are like this but it's a pretty bloody big percentage.

What it boils down to is people need to bring themselves back down to Earth and be a bit more humble, if this happens I guarantee the gaming community will be a far better place. It basically comes down to an attitude problem, which believe it or not CAN be fixed. People have just got to man up (or woman up) and be willing to fix it.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · May 2016

Lysette wrote: »

300 Baud?- That is about 132kb/hr - not per second, per hour - incredible.

Yeah. It was slow. But then, the couplers were only 110 so I was flying in comparison.

Rylana · May 2016

Lysette wrote: »

300 Baud?- That is about 132kb/hr - not per second, per hour - incredible.

I started in the 28.8k (3200 baud) days, mid nineties, 300 baud like he is talking about was mostly pre-80s tech, really old stuff, but still around when the internet started booming.

back in the days of the baud rate modems before 56k became obsolete and broadband became the norm, very little on the internet used anywhere near that transfer rate, it was almost all text based with very very few actual graphics outside of an occasional picture (which might take 2 minutes to load)

I remember P2P song sharing (pre-napster, lolz), two hours to download a five minute song. Today it takes about 3 seconds.

hamgatan · May 2016

Rylana wrote: »

back in the days of the baud rate modems before 56k became obsolete and broadband became the norm, very little on the internet used anywhere near that transfer rate, it was almost all text based with very very few actual graphics outside of an occasional picture (which might take 2 minutes to load).

Pictures? BAH! Lynx all the way!

ZOS_DaryaK · May 2016

We've removed comments that were not constructive.

rotaugen454 · May 2016

Gaming used to be much more personal, with a group of friends over for D&D or a board game like Squad Leader. But, those could get heated too when the "rules lawyers" started arguing. At least with the computer games, it is all worked out ahead of time, and you only get people aruging over what is an exploit. I stil have cassette tapes of recorded D&D sessions from the late 70s/early 80s that my son thinks are hilarious.

"Why are they arguing over who was standing closer to the door?"

"I don't know, it seemed important at the time."

Wifeaggro13 · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.

What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?

Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?

What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?

What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?

What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?

Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?

So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.

One word is what happened to games and gaming communities." WoW" Developers made a mad dash to monetize everything about an MMO. Control in game economies and reduce the difficulty of development and time to produce them. The MMO is gone likely will never return. Corporations have taken over and care nothing for longevity game health and customer retention. There are some games that are crowd funded in the future with very experienced veteran developers. those will be niche but hold better retention for sure.

Cherryblossom · May 2016

Been gaming 35 years, I've not seen this mythical time you seem too want to return to!

In life there will always be people who want to win and those that would like to but don't care if they don't. This has not changed over time.
Only difference between young gamers and old gamers is time, and generally quicker reflexes

some people will always complain if something is damaging their enjoyment, some will highligt issues that effect everyone. I don't see this as an issue.

I think everyone plays games for fun, they will complain if something makes it less enjoyable.

With regards to exploits, I think it is down to the developer to avoid them, which I'm sure they do, but crap happens sometimes. You can assume a lot of people will weigh what the exploit does and how it could help them and then there is another group which will exploit the hell out of it for greed, in my opinion this group needs to be acted on the others in my opinion should be chalked up as lucky they found the exploit before it was fixed.

rotaugen454 · May 2016

My son only knows the way gaming is now. He asks me why so many people are cussing at each other all the time in online games, and I told him its a numbers game. There are far more people doing the gaming, so even if its a low percentage that feels the need to be a jerk, you'll see more of them, and they will be the ones you notice, not the ones who don't rage and scream online.

Volkodav · May 2016

MattT1988 wrote: »

What happened? Pretty simple really. People started taking gaming waaaay more seriously then it should ever have been. People started thinking that being good at video games is actually a life achievement. Misdirected competitiveness seeped in resulting in over inflated and undeserving egos from people who believe being good at video games makes them king of the world. Not all good gamers are like this but it's a pretty bloody big percentage.

What it boils down to is people need to bring themselves back down to Earth and be a bit more humble, if this happens I guarantee the gaming community will be a far better place. It basically comes down to an attitude problem, which believe it or not CAN be fixed. People have just got to man up (or woman up) and be willing to fix it.

YES.This is so perfect and says it all.

Volkodav · May 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.

What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?

Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?

What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?

What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?

What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?

Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?

So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.

One word is what happened to games and gaming communities." WoW" Developers made a mad dash to monetize everything about an MMO. Control in game economies and reduce the difficulty of development and time to produce them. The MMO is gone likely will never return. Corporations have taken over and care nothing for longevity game health and customer retention. There are some games that are crowd funded in the future with very experienced veteran developers. those will be niche but hold better retention for sure.

If the MMO is gone,why is it that new ones are always coming out? Like Black Desert Online,and others. The thing is the OP was wondering about the community as much as the games themselves.Why do people become so toxic,that sort of thing.
WoW didnt cause the communities to go ugly.People did this themselves. They want more,or they want less.They want to make sure everyone agrees with them and if they dont they will jump d own their throats. They want to make sure they can beat everyone else down,to be better than anyone else,and they love to make sure everyone knows it.
Not everyone,mind you,just a lot of people.

Volkodav · May 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.

What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?

Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?

What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?

What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?

What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?

Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?

So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.

One word is what happened to games and gaming communities." WoW" Developers made a mad dash to monetize everything about an MMO. Control in game economies and reduce the difficulty of development and time to produce them. The MMO is gone likely will never return. Corporations have taken over and care nothing for longevity game health and customer retention. There are some games that are crowd funded in the future with very experienced veteran developers. those will be niche but hold better retention for sure.

If the MMO is gone,why is it that new ones are always coming out? Like Black Desert Online,and others. The thing is the OP was wondering about the community as much as the games themselves.Why do people become so toxic,that sort of thing.
WoW didnt cause the communities to go ugly.People did this themselves. They want more,or they want less.They want to make sure everyone agrees with them and if they dont they will jump down eachother's throats. They want to make sure they can beat everyone else down,to be better than anyone else,and they love to make sure everyone knows it.
Not everyone,mind you,just a lot of people.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

Absolutely fantastic feedback, everyone. This stuff is some of the best I've read in quite some time (in regards to what's going on currently with gaming as a whole). I've gotten the back stories to quite a few things that I didn't even know about, so the insightfulness is certainly present in this thread. Thank you to everyone who's been providing solid posts, and I look forward to reading much more.

jkemmery · May 2016

Lysette wrote: »

IMO the lack of hardship of any kind in the life of the younger generation. They grew up in relative wealthy families and get all handed to them for free and in abundance and that makes them feel entitled and spoiled. It is not just a matter of the gaming communities, it is a matter of modern society in a whole. This happened.

Ahh, the "good ole days" where we all learned the value of hard work and respected our elders and ...

Oh, wait, this is pretty much what every generation says about the proceeding one's. It's literally as old as the bible, if not more so. I mean imagine how jealous the generation who invented farming was of the following one, who didn't have to hunt and gather any more!

What happened is you got old, and view your past through rose colored glasses. How many of our fathers and mothers were obsessively abusive? I know mine were. I vowed NOT to treat my children like that. How many of us grew up in communities where "other" kinds of folks were not welcomed among us?

We made a better world for our children. Then we have the gall to complain that they have it so well, as opposed to patting ourselves on the back for giving them the life we wish we had had.

The younger generation, the "millennials" will do much more for the world than the "boomers" ever did, or even the "greatest generation", I promise you that. Their sense of fairness and inclusiveness will save the wold.

Then many of them will *** about how the younger generation has it so well off, and didn't have to deal with things like war, racism, oppression not to mention starvation.

Lysette · May 2016

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Gaming used to be much more personal, with a group of friends over for D&D or a board game like Squad Leader. But, those could get heated too when the "rules lawyers" started arguing. At least with the computer games, it is all worked out ahead of time, and you only get people aruging over what is an exploit. I stil have cassette tapes of recorded D&D sessions from the late 70s/early 80s that my son thinks are hilarious.

"Why are they arguing over who was standing closer to the door?"

"I don't know, it seemed important at the time."

Was maybe in the role - and a character with low charisma will anyway not be very socially acceptable or have some other issues, which can be played out in role play very well - recorded and listened to a much later time, can sound very weird. I once rolled charisma 4 - and I decided to play a character with tourette syndrom - randomly insulting people and be vulgar and cause all kind of incidents with it - was very much fun to role play that - but if that would have been recorded, it would really sound very weird to listeners.

JamilaRaj · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

If the MMO is gone,why is it that new ones are always coming out?

Actually, few come out nowadays. Name six, lol.
Greedy companies have discovered that instead of spending years and millions of dollars before making any profit, they can generate some buzz and start milking impatient whales right away for early access to some prototypes. There is no point in having games "come out" anymore.
Which is, not unlike P2W, very toxic business model, precisely because developers will focus on generating hype, by, in turn, focusing on fancy, quick to make and easy to monetize features, that can be periodically announced to the press for further parroting, rather than on solid foundations and, ultimately, a game that is fun to play (that is of least concern, the game is not going to be released and played anyway).

Volkodav · May 2016

jkemmery wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

IMO the lack of hardship of any kind in the life of the younger generation. They grew up in relative wealthy families and get all handed to them for free and in abundance and that makes them feel entitled and spoiled. It is not just a matter of the gaming communities, it is a matter of modern society in a whole. This happened.

Ahh, the "good ole days" where we all learned the value of hard work and respected our elders and ...

Oh, wait, this is pretty much what every generation says about the proceeding one's. It's literally as old as the bible, if not more so. I mean imagine how jealous the generation who invented farming was of the following one, who didn't have to hunt and gather any more!

What happened is you got old, and view your past through rose colored glasses. How many of our fathers and mothers were obsessively abusive? I know mine were. I vowed NOT to treat my children like that. How many of us grew up in communities where "other" kinds of folks were not welcomed among us?

We made a better world for our children. Then we have the gall to complain that they have it so well, as opposed to patting ourselves on the back for giving them the life we wish we had had.

The younger generation, the "millennials" will do much more for the world than the "boomers" ever did, or even the "greatest generation", I promise you that. Their sense of fairness and inclusiveness will save the wold.

Then many of them will *** about how the younger generation has it so well off, and didn't have to deal with things like war, racism, oppression not to mention starvation.

Their sense of fairness and inclusiveness will save the world? Surely you are being sarcastic. The "millennials" incredibly judgmental and ready to find fault at the drop of a feather. They're like raptors,..ready to pounce.
~~~Not all mind you,this is a generalization.~~~

jkemmery · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

IMO the lack of hardship of any kind in the life of the younger generation. They grew up in relative wealthy families and get all handed to them for free and in abundance and that makes them feel entitled and spoiled. It is not just a matter of the gaming communities, it is a matter of modern society in a whole. This happened.

Ahh, the "good ole days" where we all learned the value of hard work and respected our elders and ...

Oh, wait, this is pretty much what every generation says about the proceeding one's. It's literally as old as the bible, if not more so. I mean imagine how jealous the generation who invented farming was of the following one, who didn't have to hunt and gather any more!

What happened is you got old, and view your past through rose colored glasses. How many of our fathers and mothers were obsessively abusive? I know mine were. I vowed NOT to treat my children like that. How many of us grew up in communities where "other" kinds of folks were not welcomed among us?

We made a better world for our children. Then we have the gall to complain that they have it so well, as opposed to patting ourselves on the back for giving them the life we wish we had had.

The younger generation, the "millennials" will do much more for the world than the "boomers" ever did, or even the "greatest generation", I promise you that. Their sense of fairness and inclusiveness will save the wold.

Then many of them will *** about how the younger generation has it so well off, and didn't have to deal with things like war, racism, oppression not to mention starvation.

Their sense of fairness and inclusiveness will save the world? Surely you are being sarcastic. The "millennials" incredibly judgmental and ready to find fault at the drop of a feather. They're like raptors,..ready to pounce.
~~~Not all mind you,this is a generalization.~~~

None that I have ever met are like that, and I have a daughter and 4 step children among that generation, and I know many of their friends, so I have met and interacted with quite a few. I'm not sure what kind of experience you have.

And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I honestly believe that.

Volkodav · May 2016

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

If the MMO is gone,why is it that new ones are always coming out?

Actually, few come out nowadays. Name six, lol.
Greedy companies have discovered that instead of spending years and millions of dollars before making any profit, they can generate some buzz and start milking impatient whales right away for early access to some prototypes. There is no point in having games "come out" anymore.
Which is, not unlike P2W, very toxic business model, precisely because developers will focus on generating hype, by, in turn, focusing on fancy, quick to make and easy to monetize features, that can be periodically announced to the press for further parroting, rather than on solid foundations and, ultimately, a game that is fun to play (that is of least concern, the game is not going to be released and played anyway).

Within the last few years:
Black Desert Online
Blade and Soul
Age of Wushu Dynasty
ArcheAge
ARGO Online
Black Gold Online
ASTA: The War of Tears and Winds
Cabal 2
Immortal Day
Nova Genesis

Sorry,this is more than 6,but all of these are only 4 years old or less.There were many more,as I did a bit of research,but I thought this would be enough.

JamilaRaj · May 2016

Of these 5 were released in 2016, however of these 5 "new", 3 were released in Asia in 2012, 2013 and 2014 respectively, which leaves 2 that can be given a benefit of doubt.
One of the other five launched in 2010.

A slim hope may be that early access has not been yet discovered in Asia, in which case this source of "new" games P2W will not dry out.

Alurria · May 2016

Change is good...except when it's bad. Gaming communities have changed, they have grown and become something else. Just like a small town grows into a city. You give up knowing people reputations when having a larger community. There were things called black lists. If you were a bad gamer who cheated others you got blacklisted. Use to be a thing called chests and in more than a few games only rogues could unlock them, in gemstone a MUD they hung out in the square and picked the lock for a fee, you also had to trust them because when they did this the box was opened and most people were honest and gave you all the items back because they wanted a good rep. In EQ they hung out in the tunnel. Healers also hung out in the square in Gemstone to heal you of any curse or disease, or heavy injury you sustained.

Now we sip a drink, eat some food or heal ourselves. It's a reflection of how we live our lives, self sustainable. The anonymity of the Internet has caused the bad behavior. We can just turn off the computer after cussing someone out and go on about our business. Age is not always a factor.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

So I'm curious, everyone. What do you think made it so different in how gaming has evolved in Asia, compared to Europe and North America? And yes, I'm more than aware that there's probably bad sports and toxic players in Asia's gaming communities, but it seems like overall they tend to be more positive. Why is this? Is it because gaming is more widespread over there? Or, is it because parenting is different over there? Or is there something else all together?

Lysette · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

If the MMO is gone,why is it that new ones are always coming out?

Actually, few come out nowadays. Name six, lol.
Greedy companies have discovered that instead of spending years and millions of dollars before making any profit, they can generate some buzz and start milking impatient whales right away for early access to some prototypes. There is no point in having games "come out" anymore.
Which is, not unlike P2W, very toxic business model, precisely because developers will focus on generating hype, by, in turn, focusing on fancy, quick to make and easy to monetize features, that can be periodically announced to the press for further parroting, rather than on solid foundations and, ultimately, a game that is fun to play (that is of least concern, the game is not going to be released and played anyway).

Within the last few years:
Black Desert Online
Blade and Soul
Age of Wushu Dynasty
ArcheAge
ARGO Online
Black Gold Online
ASTA: The War of Tears and Winds
Cabal 2
Immortal Day
Nova Genesis

Sorry,this is more than 6,but all of these are only 4 years old or less.There were many more,as I did a bit of research,but I thought this would be enough.

Actually, ArcheAge is older, it had a couple of successful years in korea before it came out in a western version as well.

Lysette · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So I'm curious, everyone. What do you think made it so different in how gaming has evolved in Asia, compared to Europe and North America? And yes, I'm more than aware that there's probably bad sports and toxic players in Asia's gaming communities, but it seems like overall they tend to be more positive. Why is this? Is it because gaming is more widespread over there? Or, is it because parenting is different over there? Or is there something else all together?

It is the people's mentality there. While the west is mainly individualistic, east asians are group-oriented people. They like grinding together and achieve things in a group effort. Western society is far more individualistic with ego-centric points of view and competitive on a "me against the others" basis. Asians have this group-oriented way of living as well in their jobs, loyalty means a lot to them, while in the western world the sense for loyalty is basically lost.

Edit: parenting is different as well, because values are different there. Parents are honored and respected and children have not much to say at all, before they have their own families. Well, japan is meanwhile more "western" and they have a teenage culture - the rest of asia does not have teenagers in the meaning of how this is used in western world - teenage is a phenomena of wealthy western societies.

If you are interested into the history of teenage culture and how it came to be, there is a documentary which is quite good - I will just post the trailer here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ7g-6qbvIU

JD2013 · May 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So I'm curious, everyone. What do you think made it so different in how gaming has evolved in Asia, compared to Europe and North America? And yes, I'm more than aware that there's probably bad sports and toxic players in Asia's gaming communities, but it seems like overall they tend to be more positive. Why is this? Is it because gaming is more widespread over there? Or, is it because parenting is different over there? Or is there something else all together?

It is the people's mentality there. While the west is mainly individualistic, east asians are group-oriented people. They like grinding together and achieve things in a group effort. Western society is far more individualistic with ego-centric points of view and competitive on a "me against the others" basis. Asians have this group-oriented way of living as well in their jobs, loyalty means a lot to them, while in the western world the sense for loyalty is basically lost.

Truth.

Volkodav · May 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

If the MMO is gone,why is it that new ones are always coming out?

Actually, few come out nowadays. Name six, lol.
Greedy companies have discovered that instead of spending years and millions of dollars before making any profit, they can generate some buzz and start milking impatient whales right away for early access to some prototypes. There is no point in having games "come out" anymore.
Which is, not unlike P2W, very toxic business model, precisely because developers will focus on generating hype, by, in turn, focusing on fancy, quick to make and easy to monetize features, that can be periodically announced to the press for further parroting, rather than on solid foundations and, ultimately, a game that is fun to play (that is of least concern, the game is not going to be released and played anyway).

Within the last few years:
Black Desert Online
Blade and Soul
Age of Wushu Dynasty
ArcheAge
ARGO Online
Black Gold Online
ASTA: The War of Tears and Winds
Cabal 2
Immortal Day
Nova Genesis

Sorry,this is more than 6,but all of these are only 4 years old or less.There were many more,as I did a bit of research,but I thought this would be enough.

Actually, ArcheAge is older, it had a couple of successful years in korea before it came out in a western version as well.

Well,the point is that I was asked to name 6 games that were out "nowadays". And I did. Perhaps I should have checked to see if they were out in Asia.I didnt think of that.I looked for release dates in general.

Volkodav · May 2016

jkemmery wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

IMO the lack of hardship of any kind in the life of the younger generation. They grew up in relative wealthy families and get all handed to them for free and in abundance and that makes them feel entitled and spoiled. It is not just a matter of the gaming communities, it is a matter of modern society in a whole. This happened.

Ahh, the "good ole days" where we all learned the value of hard work and respected our elders and ...

Oh, wait, this is pretty much what every generation says about the proceeding one's. It's literally as old as the bible, if not more so. I mean imagine how jealous the generation who invented farming was of the following one, who didn't have to hunt and gather any more!

What happened is you got old, and view your past through rose colored glasses. How many of our fathers and mothers were obsessively abusive? I know mine were. I vowed NOT to treat my children like that. How many of us grew up in communities where "other" kinds of folks were not welcomed among us?

We made a better world for our children. Then we have the gall to complain that they have it so well, as opposed to patting ourselves on the back for giving them the life we wish we had had.

The younger generation, the "millennials" will do much more for the world than the "boomers" ever did, or even the "greatest generation", I promise you that. Their sense of fairness and inclusiveness will save the wold.

Then many of them will *** about how the younger generation has it so well off, and didn't have to deal with things like war, racism, oppression not to mention starvation.

Their sense of fairness and inclusiveness will save the world? Surely you are being sarcastic. The "millennials" incredibly judgmental and ready to find fault at the drop of a feather. They're like raptors,..ready to pounce.
~~~Not all mind you,this is a generalization.~~~

None that I have ever met are like that, and I have a daughter and 4 step children among that generation, and I know many of their friends, so I have met and interacted with quite a few. I'm not sure what kind of experience you have.

And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I honestly believe that.

As I mentioned,I was generalizing,in that I have seen many rough ones of that generation,who will give you grief.I have experienced it at concerts,and at biker runs.(I'm a biker lady,retired now due to injuries) They tell you to go home you're too old,or that you should be sitting in a rocking chair,etc. That isnt nice to hear.
I know many nice Millennials as well though.I live in a place that has a lot of people who interact with eachother all the time.We're kind of like families. lol.Everyone knows everyone elses business,and we have our social contacts out by the pool.
I'm an older one,and the younger ones tend to come over to see what games I am playing,or what I am up to. While I may be a mole,I do have contact with others a lot. People of all ages.

I have traveled extensively as well,to many countries,and see that people vary a lot.

Rune_Relic · May 2016

I have seen pensioners act like spoilt brats full of venom.
I have seen children performing acts of grace and dignity.
Physical age is not a reflection of mental age.

I have seen evil born from the nicest parents you could meet.
I have seen the most giving and charming children born in a life of brutality.
Birthright is not an indicator of a persons true nature.

What we see is peoples raw individuality stripped from social expectations.
What you see is peoples true uncensored nature.
Sometimes it fills me with disgust...sometimes with humbleness and admiration.
Like some of the stuff @Audigy writes to name but one.

We live in a dog eat dog world.
It is a world of capitalism where only the richest lead a meaningful existance.
And only those that abide by the rich peoples rules get to eat the scraps at the table.
But only if they jump when told and betray their own consicence.
Where acceptance of slavery is relabelled as examples of loyalty.
Did you get to see the birth of your baby or was you on the other side of the world ?
Did you goto your fathers funeral or was you tied up in a meeting somewhere ?
Did you tell your friend you took a pay cut to get the last of the job cuts before they left ?

Money is a drug used to create addicts, while dividing and controlling the masses.
You want food, drink, shelter, warmth ? You serve someone and do what you're told.
Can you eat the fruit from that tree ? No it was sold to someone else who never really owned it.
Can you harvest the wild oats in the field ? No it was sold to someone else who never really owned it.
Can you build a house on that land ? No it was sold to someone else who never really owned it.
Can you drink the water from that stream ? Maybe....looks a funny colour though and smells a bit strange. Best pay for the other stuff.
You want to serve me ? serve for less than your neighbour and stab them in the back...then you can serve me.
You want to gang up and demand equal treatment ? go find someone else to serve..if i give you a reference...or starve
You want to start a new business and compete ? I will undercut and put you out of business. No problem

There is a strict chain of financial command whose sole point of existance is the owners financial well being or those that serve the owners.
There is a reason politicians own there own businesses and are given seats on a board of directors.
Employees (us) are dispensable costs. Nothing more and nothing less. Ripe for automation and 'efficiency drives'.

You hate your neighbour because you have been divided and conquered without you even knowing.
You have surrendered all your power to faceless overseers and now pay the price.
Time is the greatest weapon of all.
People rarely notice gradual change .
They just 'feel' something is wrong without every really understanding why.
And now its too late.
You are powerless to do anything about it as you are hopelessly dependant and 100% addicted to the drug.

Do you really think civilisation didnt exist until money was invented ?
How do you think the Romans actually conquered Britain ?
Clue. It wasnt from the outside.
Romes lost legion will vouch for that.

#Putstinfoilhataway