We are currently investigating issues some players are having logging into the European PC/Mac megaserver. We will update as new information becomes available.

New Thought about Non-Cp campaign

potirondb16_ESO
potirondb16_ESO
✭✭✭
Hi guys,

With the recent creation of Azura as a non-cp campaign and the upcoming update for Dark Brotherhood, I've been coming to the conclusion that non-cp campaign are the way to go.

Here's the evolution of my though. I hope you will take time to agree or disagree with it.

When Azura was first launched into the game as a non-cp campaign my though were obvious, I am moving to Trueflamme. The reason was simple: while I had fun playing Inside Azura the fact that my CP were almost max was giving me a huge boost when I was fighting so not wanting to remove this advantage seemed obvious at the time.

It was also a pretty simple adjustement to make so all thing being consider moving toward trueflamme was the way to go.

Now what made me change my mind, first maybe I did had the time to enjoy being at cap which potentialy soften my position. Second it also become clear that pvp with CP was having a really big impact on pve. If a third position come up, I'll add it later on but let's see.

Being at cap in pvp is really nice, I almost don't have to adjust my gear for pvp and most of the time I can deal a Deadly blow rather quickly into the fight which limit my need for sustainability. So the fact that I did that and that I had time to enjoy it, is probably one of the reason why I see non-cp campaign as a good thing, but also with the upcoming reduction of difficulty Inside the sewer and Inside imperial city it does make more sens for player with low cp to go in there now, so it also make sens that player with no-cp could go too.

Other part about how CP campaign affect pve, this is really simple and most of us that played or read post about pvp notice that there's a huge imbalance between how pvp player see class balance and how pve player see class balance. As an example, even if magika build got a lot more versatility and way more opportunity in pvp to overpower stamina build the main tendency is to forsaw stamina build as op and really strong. While I do agree that stamina build are interesting to play in pvp, any pve player would tell you that they are not even close from being as strong dps as any magika build.

So how does this happend, stamina build are able to kill player really quickly in pvp but can't hold their ground in pve... my best thought is... because of champion system.The reason why this happend is because stamina build rely on strong direct hit stamina Attack while magika build usually rely on a combination of ability in order to create dps. So while the champion system is increasing the power of those hit, the unbalance becomes obvious because stamina build are easier to manage in anenvironnement where you can't really build up your dps.

So why the Non-Cp campaign is now for me the way to go:

1. because balance inbetween PVE and PVP suffer from the high burst build that are currently Killing a part of Cyrodill fun and creating unbalance in between class. The more a class can burst in PVP the more chance this same class will be unable to compete in pve.

2. Because stamina build really need help in sustaining their ressource in pve while this is not an issue in pvp (pvp kills now asking for way less ressource that they use to because of how CP lower the ressource usage for skill and improve the regeneration), ressource management in pve is worst that in pvp because of the fight that are lasting longer and the fact that each roll-dodge or block you have to do is currentyl lowering really quickly your stamina pool).

You need to believe that I would not want harness stamina to appear in pvp because that would just be unbelievably stong but sometime darn I wish I had one in pve :smile:

So that's my 2 cent, let me know if you believe what I said is right, and if you guys are ready to let go of cp campaign or if you think that how it's working now is good. Also let me know if you agree with my conclusion about the best class in pvp usually being the worst in pve.

Have a nice day !
  • ku5h
    ku5h
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always played on Azura, and when it became non CP i stayed because i was commited to top 2% for gold gear. I was plesently surprised almost immediately. Lag was gone completely, partly because 50% of population swiched to TF. But that was great for me, since all those blob guilds that were the biggest contributer to lag just left, thank God. Secondly, i had to actually think about my build, and not just stack all max dmg and still have good enough sustain to fight for days. All in all, im more then happy playing Azura with all my toons, and really dont know what could make me swich to standard CP campaign, even though i have 520 cp and my PVP guild swiched from Azura to TF.
  • kevlarto_ESO
    kevlarto_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    to me best pvp is on Black Water Blade and Azura's Star, I just wish the population was a little higher during my play time because if it was I would be homed there, the fight are better takes a little more skill, resource management means something.
  • bitaken
    bitaken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, EHJ really really really enjoyed the Non CP campaign on NA PC. However, our 12 man probably tilted the scales too far for the server's population. What I mean by that is not to say that our 12 man is some uber super wrecking ball of destruction - but that the AD there were relatively new to the game - or not as experienced as some of our players - and the AD zerg eventually wore down - lost keeps - lost scrolls - then lost the campaign.

    If there were people there to fight I would be there all the time. I love the basic premise of "Make a mistake - DIE" that is how PvP should be to be completely honest. In the CP campaigns - you have many ways to recover from an oops. In non champ - every oops is using a tent or re-spawning at a keep.
    PvP Lead Officer for Einherjar

    Member of Einherjar and associated guilds since 2001

    A multi Gaming community of players.
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Resource management requires adjustments in gear used.

    I´m able to achieve the same costs and regs as on a CP campaign. As a result everyone and their mother is using the same sets. Gearvariety is effectively non existant on high end non cp builds.

    Because dmg is so low even with full dps builds people have no chance of effectively killing someone. As a result those full DPS builds are only zerg vaible because any sustain build will have them beat within 30 to 60 seconds.

    Two sustain builds are unable to kill each other because dmg is too low.

    From a mostly solo player perspective i don´t like the campaign at all. It´s ok with a grp of atleast 3 people.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • TequilaFire
    TequilaFire
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not having trouble with resource management in the non cp campaigns, just the huge population imbalances.
  • Ajax_22
    Ajax_22
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Azura's Star, and Black Water Blade will be the worst campaigns to play in after the Dark Brotherhood releases. The new poisons were made not made with these campaigns in mind. If you have played in those campaigns you know how important resource control is. Try doing that while being hit with a poison that increases skill cost by 30%.
  • RoamingRiverElk
    RoamingRiverElk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I find Azura enjoyable in a group of two where both are magicka sorcs. I'm glad ZOS gave us this option.

    But then I look at the upcoming changes where resource management will be even harder due to poisons and overall cost increases. Will playing on Azura be possible anymore, I wonder. My build already is pure regen / cost reduction except for 3 Willpower.
    Dalris Aalr - Magicka (Stamina) DK | Dalfish - Magicka Sorc | Dal Aalr - Magicka Warden | Dalrish - Mag/Stam NB | Irana Aalr - PvE Templar
  • zuto40
    zuto40
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    Resource management requires adjustments in gear used.

    I´m able to achieve the same costs and regs as on a CP campaign. As a result everyone and their mother is using the same sets. Gearvariety is effectively non existant on high end non cp builds.

    Because dmg is so low even with full dps builds people have no chance of effectively killing someone. As a result those full DPS builds are only zerg vaible because any sustain build will have them beat within 30 to 60 seconds.

    Two sustain builds are unable to kill each other because dmg is too low.

    From a mostly solo player perspective i don´t like the campaign at all. It´s ok with a grp of atleast 3 people.

    any glass cannon in any game requires assistance to survive, a sustain build should always be able to beat a full dps build in a 1v1 unless its a gank, then the damage should be enough to burst someone down, otherwise the cannon is kinda bad, and define sustain build
    Stamblade- Legate
    Tank/Heals Templar- Sergeant
    Magic DK- Corporal
    Stam DK- Sergeant
    Stamplar- Corporal

    YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy8uqORxhlrMh8oz2230s9g
  • Robbmrp
    Robbmrp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice read. I was in Azura when it first went to No CP and have been having a blast in there. I tried out Trueflame last week with a guild and had a blast in there as well...WHILE IT WORKED.... The game was choppy and once it got to the point where nothing worked again I switched back to Azura and have been in there again with no regrets. Things work there. CP doesn't give players a HUGE advantage over another there. We have so much build diversity that we don't need CP in PVP IMO.

    Until ZOS can get the lag under control in the servers your playing in, why not go try out the NO CP ones. You might just find you like it better than the other anyway....
    NA Server - Kildair
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Normally I'm on Azura Star. But recently DC has taken a liking to making it a buff server.

    I don't want to contribute to that, so I'm on Trueflame till AZ flips back to competitive.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    Normally I'm on Azura Star. But recently DC has taken a liking to making it a buff server.

    I don't want to contribute to that, so I'm on Trueflame till AZ flips back to competitive.

    I've made sure not to push past nikel lately. The map has been pretty good. But at night the DC pugs take the map -_-
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    Normally I'm on Azura Star. But recently DC has taken a liking to making it a buff server.

    I don't want to contribute to that, so I'm on Trueflame till AZ flips back to competitive.

    I've made sure not to push past nikel lately. The map has been pretty good. But at night the DC pugs take the map -_-

    Yea tbh, they need to not push past nikel or bleaks to help stimulate the pvp environment.

    As much as blood lust is hard, I'd rather sit in the laggy CP camp if it means I'll get constant ebb+flow fights.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Normally I'm on Azura Star. But recently DC has taken a liking to making it a buff server.

    I don't want to contribute to that, so I'm on Trueflame till AZ flips back to competitive.

    I've made sure not to push past nikel lately. The map has been pretty good. But at night the DC pugs take the map -_-

    Yea tbh, they need to not push past nikel or bleaks to help stimulate the pvp environment.

    As much as blood lust is hard, I'd rather sit in the laggy CP camp if it means I'll get constant ebb+flow fights.

    Agreed, but they don't like to listen =P
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Normally I'm on Azura Star. But recently DC has taken a liking to making it a buff server.

    I don't want to contribute to that, so I'm on Trueflame till AZ flips back to competitive.

    I've made sure not to push past nikel lately. The map has been pretty good. But at night the DC pugs take the map -_-

    Yea tbh, they need to not push past nikel or bleaks to help stimulate the pvp environment.

    As much as blood lust is hard, I'd rather sit in the laggy CP camp if it means I'll get constant ebb+flow fights.

    Agreed, but they don't like to listen =P

    That's why I'm on Trueflame.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Kartalin
    Kartalin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Normally I'm on Azura Star. But recently DC has taken a liking to making it a buff server.

    I don't want to contribute to that, so I'm on Trueflame till AZ flips back to competitive.

    I've made sure not to push past nikel lately. The map has been pretty good. But at night the DC pugs take the map -_-

    Yea tbh, they need to not push past nikel or bleaks to help stimulate the pvp environment.

    As much as blood lust is hard, I'd rather sit in the laggy CP camp if it means I'll get constant ebb+flow fights.

    Agreed, but they don't like to listen =P
    AD pugs don't like to listen either. "Hey guys, how about we _don't_ run back to Nikel and die for the 12th time in a row?"
  • Brutusmax1mus
    Brutusmax1mus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 30 prevent skill cost poisons will be bis for azuras imo, but won't do a damn thing to cp maps. I run 0 sustain on all my characters in scourge. Half and half in azuras accept my stamblade who uses heavy attacks for sustain which is generally plenty unless I'm out numbered. Tank vs tank or sustain vs sustain is always a long fight. However if some one doesn't win then neither no how to pressure and capitalize.

  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Kartalin wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Normally I'm on Azura Star. But recently DC has taken a liking to making it a buff server.

    I don't want to contribute to that, so I'm on Trueflame till AZ flips back to competitive.

    I've made sure not to push past nikel lately. The map has been pretty good. But at night the DC pugs take the map -_-

    Yea tbh, they need to not push past nikel or bleaks to help stimulate the pvp environment.

    As much as blood lust is hard, I'd rather sit in the laggy CP camp if it means I'll get constant ebb+flow fights.

    Agreed, but they don't like to listen =P
    AD pugs don't like to listen either. "Hey guys, how about we _don't_ run back to Nikel and die for the 12th time in a row?"

    DC pushed back to Nikel again and I logged. Hope I don't wake up to a blue map again ):
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • Kartalin
    Kartalin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    The other AD on Az are surprisingly resilient, which is kind of nice, but also very stubborn, which is...challenging.
  • Suru
    Suru
    ✭✭✭✭
    Kartalin wrote: »
    The other AD on Az are surprisingly resilient, which is kind of nice, but also very stubborn, which is...challenging.

    They try hard....and are persistent. Just need better organization :/


    Suru
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
    Yolokin_Swagonborn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Resource Management Meta > Stack mitigation and burst Meta.

    'nuff said.
  • DemonDruaga
    DemonDruaga
    ✭✭✭✭
    I have already enough trouble managing my stamina on my mag. Dk on the cp ones. Already play with 19k stam (on a damn magicka build) and it's barely enough. No cp means no thumbling+ new potions i may can break free two times and then it was that. Surely no problems for a 40k max 2k reg stam build, but those magicka builds who need stamina to survive will get an arrow to the knee
    Ardor // Dunkelsicht // Pakt
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I have already enough trouble managing my stamina on my mag. Dk on the cp ones. Already play with 19k stam (on a damn magicka build) and it's barely enough. No cp means no thumbling+ new potions i may can break free two times and then it was that. Surely no problems for a 40k max 2k reg stam build, but those magicka builds who need stamina to survive will get an arrow to the knee

    I play with 13k stamina on magicka builds, Sorc, Templar and Nightblade in there and do just fine. The campaign is extremely good.
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • Dreyloch
    Dreyloch
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I look at Azura's as competitive fun, IF you have the right class and build for it. I also tend to think, if I'm getting all these CP's, and I can't use them...then what's the point if I really only PvP in the game? There are people that seriously want nothing to do with PvE....like...ever.
    Edited by Dreyloch on May 4, 2016 5:44PM
    "The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"
  • bitaken
    bitaken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Drey, With some help from one other small guild and a very divided DC zone chat we were able to completely take over Azura's from AD. It took time and effort, but we were able to get it. Not only come back from an 8K point deficit - but win it by about 3500 over AD and EP (with low pop bonus) about 2K down when it finished.

    What certain people did with emperor and how it was handled on reset - caused us to leave. EHJ was regularly bombing 30+ with 10-12 and winning. Not because of builds or gear - but because we finally got back to our roots - and the slightly lower regen and non CP's and lower defenses made it possible.

    The problem with Champion points in my honest opinion is that it increases defenses and regen to the point where numbers mean way more than skill.

    Non CP is an awesome way to play this game - IDC that I have 450 + champ points - its a completely horribly flawed system and hurts PvP more than most are willing to admit.
    PvP Lead Officer for Einherjar

    Member of Einherjar and associated guilds since 2001

    A multi Gaming community of players.
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nice thought. Azura's on xboz eu has 0 pvp though, so the no CP campaign was pointless for us.
Sign In or Register to comment.