Maintenance for the week of February 23:
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· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
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· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
· [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
What Happened to Gaming & Gaming Communities
-
Ser Lobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭The first gaming communities were small. Tens, hundreds, but rarely thousands. Many of us experienced the drama, competitiveness, cheating and sometimes real life violence in the early arcade communities. Obviously, many didn't.
But that's the reality of numbers. If there's one real prick in every 100 players, and your game can only hold 200, you're not very likely to get your game ruined by them. But if your game can hold 2 million, theres more than enough chances you might run into someone abusive, uncaring or rude every single time you log in.
I remember drama in the very first guild I ever joined, back in the late 90's. But in my memories, it's often outweighed by all the fun times I was having. Of course, it was my first MMO, and that same game would be nigh unplayable today due to so many buggy, broken and even unreasonable mechanics. Good at the time, but no longer.
I remember paying $30 a month for one game (not including internet costs, which were almost entirely devoted to that game). I remember $60 expansions for another. I remember buying expansions for content that later became free, just to get special items that were coded into the expansion.
No, the money grabbing? The *** and pricks? The idiots and cheaters and 'I want something different'?
All of that has been in gaming since day one. We just see it more now, because there are more.Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NARuze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.2 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭rotaugen454 wrote: »I don't think that I am wearing nostalgia glasses. I can remember game forums in the late 80s/early 90s that were FAR less toxic than the average game forum today. I can remember devs (like Larry Holland or Sid Meier) posting directly in forums, because they wouldn't get 1000 posts about how they were a thief, incompetent, or should be fired.
To be fair, Sid Meier should be fired, because he did better games 25 years ago than he is making now. Just imagine what we could possibly talk about on forums:
Jamila: Sid, how come that with all the computing power and gadzillion inch supermegahyperultra HD displays we have, all your games you made/lent your name to in the past ~15 years can display are like five tiles? Substantially less than your earlier 1991 hit. Do you not think that not much strategy can take place on just five tiles?
Sid: well, uh, how should I phrase it....um...anyway, have bought premium early access already? If you buy it now, you will have 10% discount on every microtransaction if...err...once, once of course, the new game launches.
Well, nostalgia may be real, but so are crap games and greedy companies.
EDIT: alternative, downer ending version:
Sid: you should be grateful you still have tiles.Edited by JamilaRaj on May 3, 2016 5:30PM3 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »@Shadowfx1970 love your quote! True what you said. We really need AI parenting though....the kind where if you make a rotten insulting post on a gaming forum the computer automatically shuts down for 24 hrs and when it reboots makes you type 200 hundred times "I have learned my lesson". Oh it's coming I can see it now.
It's better to educate people on the benefits of politness and courtesy, than it is to try and force it out of them. Forced compliance applied to broadly ultimately leads to rebellion. You really don't want a cyber shut down button tempting the fingers of malcontents. Sarcasm aside, that's what that sort of system is very vulnerable to. Not to mention any economic ramifications if consumers, even to their own determinant, choose to no longer purchase electronic devices with said compliance features.
The problem is there is little to no benefit to politeness and courtesy anymore. Maybe there never was...
Generally speaking if you want something from someone being nice to them is the easier route to obtaining it.
That's just manipulation though.
You are being nice to get what you want.
I'm more talking that being nice for being nice's sake isn't in the deck nowadays.1 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »The first gaming communities were small. Tens, hundreds, but rarely thousands. Many of us experienced the drama, competitiveness, cheating and sometimes real life violence in the early arcade communities. Obviously, many didn't.
But that's the reality of numbers. If there's one real prick in every 100 players, and your game can only hold 200, you're not very likely to get your game ruined by them. But if your game can hold 2 million, theres more than enough chances you might run into someone abusive, uncaring or rude every single time you log in.
I remember drama in the very first guild I ever joined, back in the late 90's. But in my memories, it's often outweighed by all the fun times I was having. Of course, it was my first MMO, and that same game would be nigh unplayable today due to so many buggy, broken and even unreasonable mechanics. Good at the time, but no longer.
I remember paying $30 a month for one game (not including internet costs, which were almost entirely devoted to that game). I remember $60 expansions for another. I remember buying expansions for content that later became free, just to get special items that were coded into the expansion.
No, the money grabbing? The *** and pricks? The idiots and cheaters and 'I want something different'?
All of that has been in gaming since day one. We just see it more now, because there are more.
That's honestly the truth of it.2 -
Villious✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »@Shadowfx1970 love your quote! True what you said. We really need AI parenting though....the kind where if you make a rotten insulting post on a gaming forum the computer automatically shuts down for 24 hrs and when it reboots makes you type 200 hundred times "I have learned my lesson". Oh it's coming I can see it now.
It's better to educate people on the benefits of politness and courtesy, than it is to try and force it out of them. Forced compliance applied to broadly ultimately leads to rebellion. You really don't want a cyber shut down button tempting the fingers of malcontents. Sarcasm aside, that's what that sort of system is very vulnerable to. Not to mention any economic ramifications if consumers, even to their own determinant, choose to no longer purchase electronic devices with said compliance features.
The problem is there is little to no benefit to politeness and courtesy anymore. Maybe there never was...
That's the thing. There shouldn't have to be a benefit for people to do it. They should do it because it's the right thing to do. It's the old golden rule. Treat others as you'd want to be treated. My personal opinion is, it's generations of kids being raised with no values/morals instilled. Kids growing up behind the anonymity of a computer, not learning there are consequences for their actions. Society as a whole now a days is like the proverbial snowball.2 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »@Shadowfx1970 love your quote! True what you said. We really need AI parenting though....the kind where if you make a rotten insulting post on a gaming forum the computer automatically shuts down for 24 hrs and when it reboots makes you type 200 hundred times "I have learned my lesson". Oh it's coming I can see it now.
It's better to educate people on the benefits of politness and courtesy, than it is to try and force it out of them. Forced compliance applied to broadly ultimately leads to rebellion. You really don't want a cyber shut down button tempting the fingers of malcontents. Sarcasm aside, that's what that sort of system is very vulnerable to. Not to mention any economic ramifications if consumers, even to their own determinant, choose to no longer purchase electronic devices with said compliance features.
The problem is there is little to no benefit to politeness and courtesy anymore. Maybe there never was...
Generally speaking if you want something from someone being nice to them is the easier route to obtaining it.
That's just manipulation though.
You are being nice to get what you want.
I'm more talking that being nice for being nice's sake isn't in the deck nowadays.
All organisms use and manipulate other organisms. That's the real circle of life. As higher sentinant beings all with can do is make sure that cycle of usage is as mutually beneficial as possible.Edited by dday3six on May 3, 2016 5:29PM1 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »@Shadowfx1970 love your quote! True what you said. We really need AI parenting though....the kind where if you make a rotten insulting post on a gaming forum the computer automatically shuts down for 24 hrs and when it reboots makes you type 200 hundred times "I have learned my lesson". Oh it's coming I can see it now.
It's better to educate people on the benefits of politness and courtesy, than it is to try and force it out of them. Forced compliance applied to broadly ultimately leads to rebellion. You really don't want a cyber shut down button tempting the fingers of malcontents. Sarcasm aside, that's what that sort of system is very vulnerable to. Not to mention any economic ramifications if consumers, even to their own determinant, choose to no longer purchase electronic devices with said compliance features.
The problem is there is little to no benefit to politeness and courtesy anymore. Maybe there never was...
That's the thing. There shouldn't have to be a benefit for people to do it. They should do it because it's the right thing to do. It's the old golden rule. Treat others as you'd want to be treated. My personal opinion is, it's generations of kids being raised with no values/morals instilled. Kids growing up behind the anonymity of a computer, not learning there are consequences for their actions. Society as a whole now a days is like the proverbial snowball.
I've noticed this with a vast majority of the youth nowadays. It's sad. While there are some who do have values and morals, the amount is steadily decreasing at an alarming rate.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »@Shadowfx1970 love your quote! True what you said. We really need AI parenting though....the kind where if you make a rotten insulting post on a gaming forum the computer automatically shuts down for 24 hrs and when it reboots makes you type 200 hundred times "I have learned my lesson". Oh it's coming I can see it now.
It's better to educate people on the benefits of politness and courtesy, than it is to try and force it out of them. Forced compliance applied to broadly ultimately leads to rebellion. You really don't want a cyber shut down button tempting the fingers of malcontents. Sarcasm aside, that's what that sort of system is very vulnerable to. Not to mention any economic ramifications if consumers, even to their own determinant, choose to no longer purchase electronic devices with said compliance features.
The problem is there is little to no benefit to politeness and courtesy anymore. Maybe there never was...
That's the thing. There shouldn't have to be a benefit for people to do it. They should do it because it's the right thing to do. It's the old golden rule. Treat others as you'd want to be treated. My personal opinion is, it's generations of kids being raised with no values/morals instilled. Kids growing up behind the anonymity of a computer, not learning there are consequences for their actions. Society as a whole now a days is like the proverbial snowball.
I've noticed this with a vast majority of the youth nowadays. It's sad. While there are some who do have values and morals, the amount is steadily decreasing at an alarming rate.
People have said that about youth culture for a long, long time. The difference now is that you're just exposed to it more thanks to the internet. The human brain continues to develop well into a person's 20's. When the average person looks back on their life, they often reflect on decisions made in their youth, and how they would make different ones. That's because the way they process information is different in their later years.3 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »@Shadowfx1970 love your quote! True what you said. We really need AI parenting though....the kind where if you make a rotten insulting post on a gaming forum the computer automatically shuts down for 24 hrs and when it reboots makes you type 200 hundred times "I have learned my lesson". Oh it's coming I can see it now.
It's better to educate people on the benefits of politness and courtesy, than it is to try and force it out of them. Forced compliance applied to broadly ultimately leads to rebellion. You really don't want a cyber shut down button tempting the fingers of malcontents. Sarcasm aside, that's what that sort of system is very vulnerable to. Not to mention any economic ramifications if consumers, even to their own determinant, choose to no longer purchase electronic devices with said compliance features.
The problem is there is little to no benefit to politeness and courtesy anymore. Maybe there never was...
Generally speaking if you want something from someone being nice to them is the easier route to obtaining it.
That's just manipulation though.
You are being nice to get what you want.
I'm more talking that being nice for being nice's sake isn't in the deck nowadays.
All organisms use and manipulate other organisms. That's the real circle of life. As higher sentinant beings all with can do is make sure that cycle of usage is as mutually beneficial as possible.
I don't hold the door for women to see their asses.
I hold it because that's what I was taught to do.
Point being, the current iteration of organisms were never taught to do anything polite, as far as I can tell, and have been taught nothing but get yours while you can and it's all about me.
edit: English sum poorEdited by rfennell_ESO on May 3, 2016 6:01PM5 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »@Shadowfx1970 love your quote! True what you said. We really need AI parenting though....the kind where if you make a rotten insulting post on a gaming forum the computer automatically shuts down for 24 hrs and when it reboots makes you type 200 hundred times "I have learned my lesson". Oh it's coming I can see it now.
It's better to educate people on the benefits of politness and courtesy, than it is to try and force it out of them. Forced compliance applied to broadly ultimately leads to rebellion. You really don't want a cyber shut down button tempting the fingers of malcontents. Sarcasm aside, that's what that sort of system is very vulnerable to. Not to mention any economic ramifications if consumers, even to their own determinant, choose to no longer purchase electronic devices with said compliance features.
The problem is there is little to no benefit to politeness and courtesy anymore. Maybe there never was...
That's the thing. There shouldn't have to be a benefit for people to do it. They should do it because it's the right thing to do. It's the old golden rule. Treat others as you'd want to be treated. My personal opinion is, it's generations of kids being raised with no values/morals instilled. Kids growing up behind the anonymity of a computer, not learning there are consequences for their actions. Society as a whole now a days is like the proverbial snowball.
I've noticed this with a vast majority of the youth nowadays. It's sad. While there are some who do have values and morals, the amount is steadily decreasing at an alarming rate.
People have said that about youth culture for a long, long time. The difference now is that you're just exposed to it more thanks to the internet. The human brain continues to develop well into a person's 20's. When the average person looks back on their life, they often reflect on decisions made in their youth, and how they would make different ones. That's because the way they process information is different in their later years.
You're very wise, comrade. Very, very, wise. A characteristic that is unfortunately suppressed on these forums. I welcome your posts and future threads, and look forward to contribution to your discussions in a civilized manner.
That also goes for a lot of you in this thread. This thread seems to have drawn out a lot of the "thinkers" in this forum, as well as those who aren't afraid to take a step back and view things from a more logical perspective. A perspective that isn't so much biased, and more so universal. And thus, my deepest of respects go out to you all.0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So I just left a group create from the activity finder, filled with people talking about how they're tired of playing with randoms and scrubs, so I asked them what they've done to assist randoms and these so-called scrubs. And what did I receive as an answer? A barrage of insults claiming how I'm "clearly a no-life", because I have stormproof as my title and how the problem with ESO is that it's filled with a bunch of nerds, who expect everyone to play flawlessly. Keep in mind, this was coming from an individual who no lie kept standing in red circles, and was adamantly claiming that it was the healer's job to heal them through the damage they were receiving...
Things are bad, guys... And real bad... We have to make a difference. We just have to. Because what I just experienced was unacceptable.1 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »@Shadowfx1970 love your quote! True what you said. We really need AI parenting though....the kind where if you make a rotten insulting post on a gaming forum the computer automatically shuts down for 24 hrs and when it reboots makes you type 200 hundred times "I have learned my lesson". Oh it's coming I can see it now.
It's better to educate people on the benefits of politness and courtesy, than it is to try and force it out of them. Forced compliance applied to broadly ultimately leads to rebellion. You really don't want a cyber shut down button tempting the fingers of malcontents. Sarcasm aside, that's what that sort of system is very vulnerable to. Not to mention any economic ramifications if consumers, even to their own determinant, choose to no longer purchase electronic devices with said compliance features.
The problem is there is little to no benefit to politeness and courtesy anymore. Maybe there never was...
Generally speaking if you want something from someone being nice to them is the easier route to obtaining it.
That's just manipulation though.
You are being nice to get what you want.
I'm more talking that being nice for being nice's sake isn't in the deck nowadays.
All organisms use and manipulate other organisms. That's the real circle of life. As higher sentinant beings all with can do is make sure that cycle of usage is as mutually beneficial as possible.
I don't hold the door for women to see their asses.
I hold it because that's what I was taught to do.
Point being, the current iteration of organisms were never taught to do anything polite, as far as I can tell, and have been taught nothing but get yours while you can and it's all about me.
edit: English sum poor
If person A, does something nice for person B, because it makes person A feel good. Person A still acquired something from the exchange.
The "get yours" mentality is a biological instinct. We can supress it, we can reason another route. But the we always come back to that because even with all the separation from the animal kingdom our intelligence provides we're still a part of it.
2 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »@Shadowfx1970 love your quote! True what you said. We really need AI parenting though....the kind where if you make a rotten insulting post on a gaming forum the computer automatically shuts down for 24 hrs and when it reboots makes you type 200 hundred times "I have learned my lesson". Oh it's coming I can see it now.
It's better to educate people on the benefits of politness and courtesy, than it is to try and force it out of them. Forced compliance applied to broadly ultimately leads to rebellion. You really don't want a cyber shut down button tempting the fingers of malcontents. Sarcasm aside, that's what that sort of system is very vulnerable to. Not to mention any economic ramifications if consumers, even to their own determinant, choose to no longer purchase electronic devices with said compliance features.
The problem is there is little to no benefit to politeness and courtesy anymore. Maybe there never was...
Generally speaking if you want something from someone being nice to them is the easier route to obtaining it.
That's just manipulation though.
You are being nice to get what you want.
I'm more talking that being nice for being nice's sake isn't in the deck nowadays.
All organisms use and manipulate other organisms. That's the real circle of life. As higher sentinant beings all with can do is make sure that cycle of usage is as mutually beneficial as possible.
I don't hold the door for women to see their asses.
I hold it because that's what I was taught to do.
Point being, the current iteration of organisms were never taught to do anything polite, as far as I can tell, and have been taught nothing but get yours while you can and it's all about me.
edit: English sum poor
If person A, does something nice for person B, because it makes person A feel good. Person A still acquired something from the exchange.
The "get yours" mentality is a biological instinct. We can supress it, we can reason another route. But the we always come back to that because even with all the separation from the animal kingdom our intelligence provides we're still a part of it.
Agreed.0 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ch4mpTW.....did he get his shiny? Cause that is all he cared about. Greed and gluttony . I have trouble dealing with those types. I use to play healers I quit doing it because of peeps like that.0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »Ch4mpTW.....did he get his shiny? Cause that is all he cared about. Greed and gluttony . I have trouble dealing with those types. I use to play healers I quit doing it because of peeps like that.
No. He got nothing, accept for his buddies laughing in and joining in on the taunting of "nerd no-lifers" and "try-hards". Anything he got after I left, I have no idea. But, I refused to listen to it any further.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭So I just left a group create from the activity finder, filled with people talking about how they're tired of playing with randoms and scrubs, so I asked them what they've done to assist randoms and these so-called scrubs. And what did I receive as an answer? A barrage of insults claiming how I'm "clearly a no-life", because I have stormproof as my title and how the problem with ESO is that it's filled with a bunch of nerds, who expect everyone to play flawlessly. Keep in mind, this was coming from an individual who no lie kept standing in red circles, and was adamantly claiming that it was the healer's job to heal them through the damage they were receiving...
Things are bad, guys... And real bad... We have to make a difference. We just have to. Because what I just experienced was unacceptable.
Certainly, and we can only work with what we have. At the same time I also wish the beginning of the game prepared players more for group content. In part by better explaining the dynamics of how roles interact with another.1 -
Taisynn✭✭✭✭✭Just saying. Be the change you want to see. Show people a good example or make a guild that follows the principles you want to see.
Not everyone is like this and people are influenced by the groups they choose to play with. Just join good groups and leave the ones who chose to be nasty behind.
Edited by Taisynn on May 3, 2016 7:10PMPC - @Taisynn - NA - CP 268
Shizuko url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CvZa0PPdzAfUv9h_rd8J2vwc1B4NnZGkPL_n4WfgYfs/edit?usp=sharing"]RP Profile[/url - Bosmer - LVL50 - Nightblade 50 Provisioning, 50 Woodworking, 50 Clothing, 50 Alchemy Ebonhart Pact
Nev'e - Bosmer - LVL 18 - Templar 50 Enchanting Ebonhart Pact
Proud Member of the Guilds:
Rusty Old Dragons (Trade) | Children of Skyrim (RP/EP) | Goldleaf Acquisitions (RP/EP)
Spicy Economics (Trade) | The Jackals (RP/EP)12 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just saying. Be the change you want to see. Show people a good example or make a guild that follows the principles you want to see.
Not everyone is like this and people are influenced by the groups they choose to play with. Just join good groups and leave the ones who chose to be nasty behind.
Agreed.
I'm telling you all. This thread is really attracting some positivity and wise-minded individuals. I don't know what it is that's drawing us all together, but I'm certainly happy that I created this thread. And I'm especially happy that @ZOS_AlanG was kind enough to reopen this thread, after seeing that this was a genuine thread that was concerned about the wellbeing of gaming (as a whole). This thread alone is making me feel better about the TESO:TU community, after a few days of me losing almost all my hope in its player base.
Much love and respect to everyone who's contributed to this thread. Let the wisdom keep flowing.5 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭So you begin your monologue about how bad gamer behaviour has become; how overly competitive. And I am starting to agree with you...
...But then near the end your real motivation shows - you turn it all around as justification for exploiting - basically doing many of the nasty things that you complained about in the previous paragraphs.
Exploiting is cheating, plain and simple. How you justify it to yourself is irrelevant. Just because you can do it due to there being a bug does not mean you should. You exploit the bug because you are greedy and competitive. But you know it is wrong or at the very least you suspect what you are doing should not be possible. But you exploit it anyway.
There is a reason why in the US legal system you will be told that 'ignorance of the law is not an excuse'. Same should apply to video games.Edited by OrangeTheCat on May 3, 2016 7:22PM2 -
Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭We're still here. We're hiding under every floorboard, under every manhole, behind every door and window, watching, waiting, hoping for that one chance to appear, that we might leap from the shadows and seize what is ours back from the snatches of the trolls and ePeen masturbators! This world is mine, this world is yours! Take it! It belongs to you!
Rise up! Rise with me and meet them! For death! Glory! For gaming communities everywhere, for our people!
FOR NARNIA!!!
ROHAN!!!
ESO!!!
But seriously, we're still here. We're just a lot less vocal than they are. Come find us, we'd love to have you join us.
4 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »So you begin your monologue about how bad gamer behaviour has become; how overly competitive. And I am starting to agree with you...
...But then near the end your real motivation shows - you turn it all around as justification for exploiting - basically doing many of the nasty things that you complained about in the previous paragraphs.
Exploiting is cheating, plain and simple. How you justify it to yourself is irrelevant. Just because you can do it due to there being a bug does not mean you should. You exploit the bug because you are greedy and competitive. But you know it is wrong or at the very least you suspect what you are doing should not be possible. But you exploit it anyway.
There is a reason why in the US legal system you will be told that 'ignorance of the law is not an excuse'. Same should apply to video games.
... No. My motivation is not justification for exploiting. My motive is to find out the source of where all this negativity and toxicity is coming rom within the gaming community as a whole. That's the core of my post, as well as this thread.
While I'm more than aware of the whole "exploiter witch hunt" transpiring currently in the forums here, I'm not trying to have that drama slip into this thread. So, if you'd please leave all that negativity at the door -- it'd be great.
Also, if you take a moment and read over the numerous comments in this thread, you'll see what this thread's true goals and intentions are... And maybe, just maybe you'll find a tad bit of wisdom in some of these contributor's posts. I know I certainly have. And wish the same for you.1 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »We're still here. We're hiding under every floorboard, under every manhole, behind every door and window, watching, waiting, hoping for that one chance to appear, that we might leap from the shadows and seize what is ours back from the snatches of the trolls and ePeen masturbators! This world is mine, this world is yours! Take it! It belongs to you!
Rise up! Rise with me and meet them! For death! Glory! For gaming communities everywhere, for our people!
FOR NARNIA!!!
ROHAN!!!
ESO!!!
But seriously, we're still here. We're just a lot less vocal than they are. Come find us, we'd love to have you join us.
Lol. And I will thoroughly check for you all, and seek as hard as I can. This thread has proven to me that there are those with good-hearts, and solid wisdom. Those who are willing to put the pettiness aside, and truly indulge themselves and others in positivity and wisdom. How this thread managed to gather these individuals of high-regards to wisdom and wanting to see gaming restored to its previous state, I have no idea. But, nonetheless I am extremely appreciative and thankful.0 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »So you begin your monologue about how bad gamer behaviour has become; how overly competitive. And I am starting to agree with you...
...But then near the end your real motivation shows - you turn it all around as justification for exploiting - basically doing many of the nasty things that you complained about in the previous paragraphs.
Exploiting is cheating, plain and simple. How you justify it to yourself is irrelevant. Just because you can do it due to there being a bug does not mean you should. You exploit the bug because you are greedy and competitive. But you know it is wrong or at the very least you suspect what you are doing should not be possible. But you exploit it anyway.
There is a reason why in the US legal system you will be told that 'ignorance of the law is not an excuse'. Same should apply to video games.
... No. My motivation is not justification for exploiting. My motive is to find out the source of where all this negativity and toxicity is coming rom within the gaming community as a whole. That's the core of my post, as well as this thread.
While I'm more than aware of the whole "exploiter witch hunt" transpiring currently in the forums here, I'm not trying to have that drama slip into this thread. So, if you'd please leave all that negativity at the door -- it'd be great.
Also, if you take a moment and read over the numerous comments in this thread, you'll see what this thread's true goals and intentions are... And maybe, just maybe you'll find a tad bit of wisdom in some of these contributor's posts. I know I certainly have. And wish the same for you.
Ha! Nice try. But you put that 'exploiter negativity' into the OP.
I agree with the rest of your post and many of the comments that focus on the rest of your post but frankly it seems more like a red herring, trying to avert attention away from your real motivation.2 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »So you begin your monologue about how bad gamer behaviour has become; how overly competitive. And I am starting to agree with you...
...But then near the end your real motivation shows - you turn it all around as justification for exploiting - basically doing many of the nasty things that you complained about in the previous paragraphs.
Exploiting is cheating, plain and simple. How you justify it to yourself is irrelevant. Just because you can do it due to there being a bug does not mean you should. You exploit the bug because you are greedy and competitive. But you know it is wrong or at the very least you suspect what you are doing should not be possible. But you exploit it anyway.
There is a reason why in the US legal system you will be told that 'ignorance of the law is not an excuse'. Same should apply to video games.
... No. My motivation is not justification for exploiting. My motive is to find out the source of where all this negativity and toxicity is coming rom within the gaming community as a whole. That's the core of my post, as well as this thread.
While I'm more than aware of the whole "exploiter witch hunt" transpiring currently in the forums here, I'm not trying to have that drama slip into this thread. So, if you'd please leave all that negativity at the door -- it'd be great.
Also, if you take a moment and read over the numerous comments in this thread, you'll see what this thread's true goals and intentions are... And maybe, just maybe you'll find a tad bit of wisdom in some of these contributor's posts. I know I certainly have. And wish the same for you.
Ha! Nice try. But you put that 'exploiter negativity' into the OP.
I agree with the rest of your post and many of the comments that focus on the rest of your post but frankly it seems more like a red herring, trying to avert attention away from your real motivation.
0 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »So you begin your monologue about how bad gamer behaviour has become; how overly competitive. And I am starting to agree with you...
...But then near the end your real motivation shows - you turn it all around as justification for exploiting - basically doing many of the nasty things that you complained about in the previous paragraphs.
Exploiting is cheating, plain and simple. How you justify it to yourself is irrelevant. Just because you can do it due to there being a bug does not mean you should. You exploit the bug because you are greedy and competitive. But you know it is wrong or at the very least you suspect what you are doing should not be possible. But you exploit it anyway.
There is a reason why in the US legal system you will be told that 'ignorance of the law is not an excuse'. Same should apply to video games.
You haven't read this thread have you?
2 -
Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.
What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?
Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?
What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?
What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?
What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?
Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?
So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.
The internet, exploitation and greed happened; and with it, the inclusion of online play, and then the catering to weak-az players. Players that couldn't handle getting their behinds handed to them by minority skilled players. The majority of unskilled individuals created a market for buying buffs, stuff, and fluff. Playing idiot-proof cheddar-cheese characters, happened, while the skilled picked up the Dan and still kicked digital derriere.
What happened is when it became realized that arcades gained more quarters than a bank teller, someone said 'lets get these games in the home and watch the money flow in tsunami-like'. And as a result ... genuine fun, the desire to make good games, the appreciation by the consumer for the taken for granted plethora of good titles, and just wanting to be a better gamer/keen person got washed away. Now we get recycled titles with their fourth and fifth edition, useless features, and money guzzling market manipulation that targets the youth with adult content.Edited by Ethromelb14_ESO on May 3, 2016 7:43PMMotto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.1 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »@Shadowfx1970 love your quote! True what you said. We really need AI parenting though....the kind where if you make a rotten insulting post on a gaming forum the computer automatically shuts down for 24 hrs and when it reboots makes you type 200 hundred times "I have learned my lesson". Oh it's coming I can see it now.
It's better to educate people on the benefits of politness and courtesy, than it is to try and force it out of them. Forced compliance applied to broadly ultimately leads to rebellion. You really don't want a cyber shut down button tempting the fingers of malcontents. Sarcasm aside, that's what that sort of system is very vulnerable to. Not to mention any economic ramifications if consumers, even to their own determinant, choose to no longer purchase electronic devices with said compliance features.
The problem is there is little to no benefit to politeness and courtesy anymore. Maybe there never was...
Generally speaking if you want something from someone being nice to them is the easier route to obtaining it.
That's just manipulation though.
You are being nice to get what you want.
I'm more talking that being nice for being nice's sake isn't in the deck nowadays.
All organisms use and manipulate other organisms. That's the real circle of life. As higher sentinant beings all with can do is make sure that cycle of usage is as mutually beneficial as possible.
I don't hold the door for women to see their asses.
I hold it because that's what I was taught to do.
Point being, the current iteration of organisms were never taught to do anything polite, as far as I can tell, and have been taught nothing but get yours while you can and it's all about me.
edit: English sum poor
If person A, does something nice for person B, because it makes person A feel good. Person A still acquired something from the exchange.
The "get yours" mentality is a biological instinct. We can supress it, we can reason another route. But the we always come back to that because even with all the separation from the animal kingdom our intelligence provides we're still a part of it.
I don't think you really follow.
It has very little to with nature.
It has to do with what people learned to do out of respect or courtesy with little to no regard to the why of it.
If you were never taught it or were never held to behave as such, you likely never will.
Point being, what you see is primal behavior unrestrained by etiquette.4 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.
What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?
Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?
What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?
What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?
What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?
Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?
So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.
The internet, exploitation and greed happened, and with it, the inclusion of online play, and then the catering to weak-az players that couldn't handle getting their behinds handed to them by minority skilled players. The majority of unskilled individuals created a market for buying buffs, stuff, and fluff. Playing idiot-proof cheddar cheese characters happened, while the skilled picked up the Dan and still kicked digital derriere.
What happened is when it became realized that arcades gained more quarters than a bank teller, someone said lets get these games in the home and watch the money flow in tsunami-like. And as a result ... genuine fun, the desire to make good games, the appreciation by the consumer for the rarity of good titles, and just wanting to be a better gamer/person got washed away. Now we get recycled titles with their fourth and fifth edition, useless features, and money guzzling market manipulation that targets the youth with adult content.
There are truths in this posts. Worded a tad bit funny. But, truths and wisdom nonetheless.
Hm... I wonder. . . Could it be because arcades are still heavily present in Japan, that Japan's gaming communities as a whole are rather positive and welcoming? Because, possibly gaming hasn't become what you've said over there in the East? Granted you have adult and mature content still that targets the youth, but it seems different over there. Almost as is if gaming is welcomed country-wide, more so than North America and Europe. Granted, I could be entirely wrong. But, I'm only going off of speculations and things that I've seen for myself. I mean you have warehouse-size buildings that are actually arcades, with multiple floors. You have people of all ages (literally) gaming heavily over there, and participating in arcade-based events. You have even cafes where you can go to discuss your favorite games, and or play (called cyber cafes). So I really wonder about this.3 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭In short; nerfs, changes, and imbalances.Edited by Justice31st on May 3, 2016 7:46PM"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0
