I'd say consider it this way: There is a western, eastern, AND central Skyrim. The other 7 holds are within western and central.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

I'd say consider it this way: There is a western, eastern, AND central Skyrim. The other 7 holds are within western and central.

The thing is it never states this in the lore. It only talks of East and West. There is no mention of a Central Skyrim.

Well, think of it like this:

Wrothgar/Orsinium is "in theory" aligned with the Daggerfall Covenant but ZOS managed to find a way to also make it kind of neutral under the context that Kurog is looking for adventurers from all over the world to help rebuild the city and ensure his peace and stability.

Although not central to the narrative of the questline, the faction side of it is mentioned several times. I've played it through more than once and with characters from all three factions and there are several moments where this matter is taken into account.

The recruitment itself, when you find the orc NPC on a city of your faction... The dialogue changes if you're DC or not DC, having you asking questions about allegiance if not DC - and that's when the NPC first explains that this is a personal matter rather than a factional one.

Across the main storyline there are also several dialogues and lorebooks that explain the deals that the orcs have done with Emeric, how are breton and redguard troops not to be there, how Kurog helped Emeric on the war in exchange for the tenuous peace they needed and all that... and the gate separating Wrothgar from the rest of the Covenant is called The Friendship gate.
However we're there as mercenary adventurers - not faction members - so we're accepted there without incident.

And there's even this peculiar line of dialogue with Eveli on the beginning of the quest to rescue the chieftain that was arrested inside his own keep (I'm avoiding spoilers here). She wonders about the possibility of this being caused by one of the different alliances if you're not playing as a Covenant character - as if claiming that perhaps even you could be involved somehow, being a notorious member of these alliances. And you get the option to refuse, of course, since we all know the Vosh Rakh were to blame :P

My point is: ZOS managed to include a region that is supposedly part of an alliance already and I'm sure they'll come up with ideas to include others, too. There are several ways that this can be done and I guess it won't be any trouble for their writers. In fact, if they're smart, this can even be a useful thing for them to play with... Like create "undecided" regions that you have to sway into your own alliance (having a slightly different questline for each faction, for example, changing the main NPC that helps you (please, Raz again for Dominion! thanks)) - Whiterun could be like that, for example... and would also be a pretty cool nod to TES V: Skyrim since you pretty much try to reason with Whiterun there, too :P

The only way I see new "traditional" factional regions coming in, though, would be through a regular, conventional expansion when/if the max level goes beyond 50. So the "main storyline" could continue and each faction could have a new region (or couples of regions) as part of the new progression areas.

I usually use this map to give examples of zones that could be introduced in the future, but I think it's relevant here as well. This map appeared on the official ESO website before launch. The zone name annotations I added myself, but the zone borders were there already (except for the western border of WrothGar, the eastern border of STonefalls, and the eastern border of EastMarch and the RIft, all of which exist in-game). I annotated the map ages ago, so Hew's Bane is not labelled.



I'm going to tackle these by province, starting with the Alliance zones we know already:

High Rock

• BEtnikh - part of Covenant territory (by the end of the quest chain)
• GLenumbra - part of Covenant territory
• RivenSpire - part of Covenant territory
• StormHaven - part of Covenant territory
• BangKorai - part of Covenant territory (partly in Hammerfell)
• WrothGar - Neutral; while Kurog has signed his allegiance to the Covenant, the Wrothgar region itself is independent, and not under Covenant control

Hammerfell

• ALik'r Desert - part of Covenant territory
• BangKorai - part of Covenant territory (partly in High Rock)
• Stros M'Kai - part of Covenant territory
• CragLorn - Neutral; has no central authority, so no means to sign itself to any alliance, Covenant or otherwise
• Hew's Bane - Neutral; has no clear administration
• SUnforge - See "Southern Hammerfell"
• Weeping Desert - See "Southern Hammerfell"
• Southern Hammerfell - It is likely that the southern regions of Hammerfell are not part of Covenant territory. Only the parts of Hammerfell that owe fealty to King Fahara'jad have joined the Covenant, and Fahara'jad is a Forebear. Any regions which are primarily aligned to the Crowns rather than the Forebears have probably not joined the Covenant, since the Crowns are Traditionalist (in opposition to the Forebears' Cosmopolitanism).

Skyrim

• Bleakrock Isle - part of Pact territory
• EastMarch - part of Pact territory
• The RIft - part of Pact territory
• The PAle (and Winterhold) - Two of the "Old Holds", so more likely to align with Eastern Skyrim than Western Skyrim. If aligned with Eastern Skyrim, they theoretically would be part of Pact territory.
• The REach (and Haafingar) - part of Western Skyrim, therefore not Pact territory
• FAlkreath - part of Western Skyrim, therefore not Pact territory
• HJaalmarch - More likely to align with Western Skyrim than Eastern Skyrim. If aligned with Western Skyrim, would not be part of Pact territory.
• WhiteRun - This is where the Stormfist Clan came from, and they were opposed to Jorunn, so this is unlikely to be Pact territory.

Morrowind

• Bal Foyen - part of Pact territory
• STonefalls - part of Pact territory
• DEshaan - part of Pact territory
• Velothi Highlands - Considering it borders Eastern Skyrim and is House Redoran territory, this area should be Pact territory.
• SOlstheim - Not covered by the Pact territory shading on the map, so if implemented, ZOS would probably find a way to make it Neutral.
• Vvardenfell - A Temple preserve which is closed to all travel. If implemented, ZOS would need to find a way to override the Temple sanction, so would probably also make it Neutral.
• Eastern Morrowind - Telvanni territory. They didn't join the Pact, so eastern Morrowind is not Pact territory.

Black Marsh

• ShadowFen - part of Pact territory
• MurkMire - According to Vicecanon Heita-Meen, the Saxhleel tribes of Murkmire joined the Pact, but there is nothing indicating whether Murkmire itself is Pact territory or not.
• ThornMarsh - According to Vicecanon Heita-Meen, the Saxhleel tribes of Thornmarsh joined the Pact, but there is nothing indicating whether Thornmarsh itself is Pact territory or not.
• Southern Black Marsh - Probably not part of Pact territory, as there is no mention of this area at all.

Summerset

• Auridon - Part of Dominion territory
• Alinor (Southern Summerset) - Theoretically should be part of the Dominion territory as Alinor is usually the Altmer capital.
• Northern Summerset - Part of the Altmer homeland, and seems to be considered Dominion territory according to the map. With Ayrenn abroad for the entire timeline of the game though, there's definitely scope for dissidents like the Veiled Heritance to rise up in these areas and create an anti-Dominion Altmer supremacy state on Summerset.

Valenwood

• GrahtWood - part of Dominion territory
• GreenShade - part of Dominion territory
• Malabal Tor - part of Dominion territory
• Reaper's March - part of Dominion territory (partly in Elsweyr)

Elsweyr

• Reaper's March - part of Dominion territory (partly in Valenwood)
• Khenarthi's Roost - part of Dominion territory (by the end of the quest chain)
• Eastern Elsweyr (ANequine, TEenmar, and Quin'Rawl) - There's nothing that says any part of Elsweyr is not part of Dominion territory, but the map doesn't show it going very far east. Therefore, Elsweyr is basically an unknown.

Cyrodiil

• Central CYrodiil - Disputed, no overall alliance control
• Gold Coast - Colovia; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• Colovian Highlands - Colovia; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• Nibenay Basin - Nibenay; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• Nibenay Valley - Nibenay; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• BlackWood - Nibenay; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)

So to answer the original question: there don't seem to be any more areas under DC control; Summerset and Elsweyr could be under AD control, but there equally could be a general reason why they aren't (similar to why Wrothgar and Craglorn are not DC areas); there are a couple of bits of Eastern Skyrim, northwest Morrowind, and northern Black Marsh that could be under EP control, but again, there may be a good reason why they aren't.

You stated that Whiterun was Stormfist Territory. But they backed Fildgor who had just as much claim to the Eastern Skyrim Throne as Jorunn did.

I dont know how powerful the Stormfist Clan is back in Whiterun. But does the lore say anything about them having control of Whiterun? Because if not, this would lean itself to the idea that Whiterun, or atleast a large portion of it was Eastern Skyrim Territory as the Stormfists only rebelled once Fildgor and Jorunn both declared the throne.

@Enodoc Your post is Gold. Much appreciated effort.

I particularly enjoy your thoughts on the complications of Vvardenfell becoming available in-game. You said something about the island being restricted by the Tribunal. I didn't really catch that, but if it is then as you said then perhaps the Tribunal could come to you and say "Oi, Champion, we got something going on in Vvardenfell, go there for us and do this and this-".

And then we learn what happened to the Dwemer.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Cyrodiil

• Central CYrodiil - Disputed, no overall alliance control
• Gold Coast - Colovia; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• Colovian Highlands - Colovia; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• Nibenay Basin - Nibenay; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• Nibenay Valley - Nibenay; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• BlackWood - Nibenay; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)

Except, according to Leyawiin NPCs, the Trans-Niben, which this map includes in the Blackwood, should be part of Elsweyr until shortly before the events of Oblivion.

In the few years before 3E 432 it was part of Elsweyr, sure, but the Trans-Niben is involved in border disputes all the time, and it says in the lore that the border is long disputed. It's quite plausible that in 2E 582 it's part of Cyrodiil, and only gets annexed into Elsweyr some time later; 2E 830, for example.

Enodoc wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Cyrodiil

• Central CYrodiil - Disputed, no overall alliance control
• Gold Coast - Colovia; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• Colovian Highlands - Colovia; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• Nibenay Basin - Nibenay; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• Nibenay Valley - Nibenay; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)
• BlackWood - Nibenay; no alliance affiliation (traditional fealty to the Empire)

Except, according to Leyawiin NPCs, the Trans-Niben, which this map includes in the Blackwood, should be part of Elsweyr until shortly before the events of Oblivion.

In the few years before 3E 432 it was part of Elsweyr, sure, but the Trans-Niben is involved in border disputes all the time, and it says in the lore that the border is long disputed. It's quite plausible that in 2E 582 it's part of Cyrodiil, and only gets annexed into Elsweyr some time later; 2E 830, for example.

Fair enough.

Is everyone forgetting that the devs are humans too and it was just not possible to make all of tamriel or atleast all alliance zones before 2020?

ankhor8 wrote: »

@Enodoc
The majority of We Saxhleel care little about this "alliance war" we are mostly taking part as a result of the agreement made with almalexia following the defeat of the akaviri invaders. The bulk of our lands is agreeably a mystery to most and shall remain so until the Hist decides.

Right. I said that already. The Saxhleel tribes of Shadowfen, Murkmire, and Thornmarsh joined the Pact. That leaves the Saxhleel tribes of the entirety of the rest of Argonia as "non-Pact".

It also leaves the entire non-Saxhleel Argonian population as non-Pact as well. For example, we know that the population of Murkmire is heavily Naga, not Saxhleel, so while the Murkmire Saxhleel joined the Pact, if the controlling body of Murkmire is Naga, then Murkmire won't be Pact territory.