Crafting Bags BAD for ESO, heres why

istateres · April 2016

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a crafting bag and I know you want one too. That doesn't mean they are good for the game as a whole.

Crafting bags will:
A) Cause havoc in the economy

Degrade the Community

My rational follows:

A - Crafting bags allow users to hold an UNLIMITED about of crafting items. In the past, players did one of three things with new crafting items they got: Sell them, Save them, Destroy/Give Away/Guild Bank them. The primary reasons for Selling them were you needed money OR you didn't have room to store them. With unlimited space, you can (and will) keep every TA you find. Why not? So the supply of TAs will increase (I'm using TA as a generic example here) because none are being destroyed. Increase in supply, lower prices. So all the non-rare items (i.e. the things you didn't keep everyone you ever found), the market will crash due to increasing supply.

Second, the market for Rare items will now be MUCH easier to corner. Want to buy and save all the Kuta, sure! You now have the room to do so and drive the price way up. Before, with space as a premium, this was much harder to do; and impossible for many items. Now, market monopolies will be easy.

B - Is your guild bank full of crafting mats? Expect that to change. What kept players from taking all those mats? The goodness of their hearts? More so the limited free space they had to store it. Now with crafting bags, they can empty ALL their guild banks right into their crafting bag. It WILL happen, expect it. Even worse, Guild members will no longer NEED to gift surplus crafting mats to the guild bank. They can if they want to, but why?

Having limited space made players SHARE. The crafting bags will promote isolation. They are bad for guilds, bad for sharing, and bad for the community.

Solution - The problem is UNLIMITED. Make it 20 or 100 extra slots, but unlimited will crash the economy and the community.

nine9six · April 2016

Disagree, and thankfully so does ZOS. I mean that in the nicest way I can.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · April 2016

Wait, are you kidding?

I found three (for me) useless purples in 2 Guild stores, for like 700 to 100 fold (level 32/36/36).

How much more can the economy implode???? O_O

dimensional · April 2016

nine9six wrote: »

Disagree, and thankfully so does ZOS. I mean that in the nicest way I can.

Same. I completely disagree with your assessment. Sorry, it makes no sense.

Kayira · April 2016

Hey there is a 21 page thread about this that already creates a massive discussion. Would be nice if you could move there or soon we have a massive war between subs and non-subs in ever thread.

Oh and I doubt gold mats will increase. Everyone would have some space in their bank if they wanted to keep 3 stacks of kuta or resin there.

Zerok · April 2016

istateres wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a crafting bag and I know you want one too. That doesn't mean they are good for the game as a whole.

Crafting bags will:
A) Cause havoc in the economy
Degrade the Community

My rational follows:

A - Crafting bags allow users to hold an UNLIMITED about of crafting items. In the past, players did one of three things with new crafting items they got: Sell them, Save them, Destroy/Give Away/Guild Bank them. The primary reasons for Selling them were you needed money OR you didn't have room to store them. With unlimited space, you can (and will) keep every TA you find. Why not? So the supply of TAs will increase (I'm using TA as a generic example here) because none are being destroyed. Increase in supply, lower prices. So all the non-rare items (i.e. the things you didn't keep everyone you ever found), the market will crash due to increasing supply.

I think it may have the reverse effect.

If players can hold unlimited stacks of Ta, this means they won't end up in the guild stores. Therefore, it will decrease the global supply of Ta and gradually increase its median price.

Players will be able to hold onto specific items and wait for the best moment to sell them, which is not the case currently because of limited storage.

Second, the market for Rare items will now be MUCH easier to corner. Want to buy and save all the Kuta, sure! You now have the room to do so and drive the price way up. Before, with space as a premium, this was much harder to do; and impossible for many items. Now, market monopolies will be easy.

I can see rich trading guilds attempting this. They could split among themselves the merchants per zone and then proceed to buy off all of a specific item.

Unlike in real world economics, this game has no antitrust laws to prevent such a thing from happening.

Solution - The problem is UNLIMITED. Make it 20 or 100 extra slots, but unlimited will crash the economy and the community.

Agreed.

istateres · April 2016

nine9six wrote: »

Disagree, and thankfully so does ZOS. I mean that in the nicest way I can.

Fair enough, but not helpful.

Kayira wrote: »

Hey there is a 21 page thread about this that already creates a massive discussion. Would be nice if you could move there or soon we have a massive war between subs and non-subs in ever thread.

Oh and I doubt gold mats will increase. Everyone would have some space in their bank if they wanted to keep 3 stacks of kuta or resin there.

I'm not aware of the thread, unless you are talking about the "Unfair" thread, which is about wanting this available to ALL players not just ESO+

dimensional · April 2016

What is there to be helpful about? The bags are coming, and no one knows how it will affect anything until they do. So even this thread isn't helpful.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · April 2016

Well, I said this somewhere else as well: the lack of info makes humans start to theorize.
Science, as an example, is crapfilled with those, because of a lack of better (or brain tissue, whichever you prefer).

Humanity for the win.

nine9six · April 2016

istateres wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Disagree, and thankfully so does ZOS. I mean that in the nicest way I can.

Fair enough, but not helpful.

Not helpful? WTF does that even mean? Nothing in this thread is going to make it to Live. So this whole thread isn't helpful??

nine9six · April 2016

dimensional wrote: »

What is there to be helpful about? The bags are coming, and no one knows how it will affect anything until they do. So even this thread isn't helpful.

LOL GDI here I was thinking I had the floor on that point.

Kayira · April 2016

nine9six wrote: »

istateres wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Disagree, and thankfully so does ZOS. I mean that in the nicest way I can.

Fair enough, but not helpful.

Not helpful? WTF does that even mean? Nothing in this thread is going to make it to Live. So this whole thread isn't helpful??

Yeah I dont understand it either. I mean since when has ZOS changed anything like this because there were a few threads complaining about it

willymchilybily · April 2016

I wont scrap your opinion outright like many have.

I can see the guild banks may not see so many materials, its possible. monopolies might also be more possible but i think only because hoarding will be more prevalent. i think if anything economy-wise, prices will increase from hoarding.

But all of those options/possibilities/outcomes mean so, so! much less to me than the frustration of having full bank and bags on every character.

I would burn the whole of tamerial and every guild trader with it for another 10 bank spaces, and i wouldnt even hesitate. I'd side with molag bal and meld tamerial with oblivion if he would give me a little more bag space.

I care less about all that you mentioned than i do about having more space. i leave behind loot after loot after loot, and i have to sell stuff just to make space to deconstruct items. But this is temporary and when I get my crafting bags all will be right with the world again. Dont take this from me.... or i will make a bag from your hide to keep my crafting materials in instead.

idk · April 2016

The OP is complete and absolutely wrong. He is making a huge assumption based on other assumptions.

A - who cares if we horde TAs. They're virtually worthless already. I already horde kuta and other gold matts. People who sell them for gold will still do so. People who horde them already do.

B - players that share will still share. I'd give a guild member the shirt off my back but I don't fill the guild bank with worthless matts which is what is mostly out into the bank. I usually destroy my overly excessive provisioning matts since I have tons.

Hope OP is feeling a little less stressed about this now.

On to solving the next problem.

istateres · April 2016

nine9six wrote: »

istateres wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Disagree, and thankfully so does ZOS. I mean that in the nicest way I can.

Fair enough, but not helpful.

Not helpful? WTF does that even mean? Nothing in this thread is going to make it to Live. So this whole thread isn't helpful??

It means having a different opinion without reasons doesn't add anything to the conversation.

Reevster · April 2016

I could careless, the economy will do what the economy wants as it always has, up and downs, for me I get most of my crafting mats "out" of my bank, does happy dance lol.

dimensional · April 2016

istateres wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

istateres wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Disagree, and thankfully so does ZOS. I mean that in the nicest way I can.

Fair enough, but not helpful.

Not helpful? WTF does that even mean? Nothing in this thread is going to make it to Live. So this whole thread isn't helpful??

It means having a different opinion without reasons doesn't add anything to the conversation.

There's nothing really to add to the conversation, other than pointing out that it's a useless one to have.

Sunburnt_Penguin · April 2016

I disagree entirely with the prices falling and in fact think that they'll rise.

However, it obviously all depends on people's motives for selling materials.

Apart from the people who actively farm mats as a way of generating gold, I think everyone else who sells them do so simply to free up inventory space. I'd assume that the number of mats listed on the market primarily come from the latter group.

As a result, those with ESO+ are likely to not sell them anymore and just hoard them in their crafting bags. That will then lead to a reduced supply and subsequent increased prices.

Gidorick · April 2016

Zerok wrote: »

istateres wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a crafting bag and I know you want one too. That doesn't mean they are good for the game as a whole.

Crafting bags will:
A) Cause havoc in the economy
Degrade the Community

My rational follows:

A - Crafting bags allow users to hold an UNLIMITED about of crafting items. In the past, players did one of three things with new crafting items they got: Sell them, Save them, Destroy/Give Away/Guild Bank them. The primary reasons for Selling them were you needed money OR you didn't have room to store them. With unlimited space, you can (and will) keep every TA you find. Why not? So the supply of TAs will increase (I'm using TA as a generic example here) because none are being destroyed. Increase in supply, lower prices. So all the non-rare items (i.e. the things you didn't keep everyone you ever found), the market will crash due to increasing supply.

I think it may have the reverse effect.

If players can hold unlimited stacks of Ta, this means they won't end up in the guild stores. Therefore, it will decrease the global supply of Ta and gradually increase its median price.

Players will be able to hold onto specific items and wait for the best moment to sell them, which is not the case currently because of limited storage.

Second, the market for Rare items will now be MUCH easier to corner. Want to buy and save all the Kuta, sure! You now have the room to do so and drive the price way up. Before, with space as a premium, this was much harder to do; and impossible for many items. Now, market monopolies will be easy.

I can see rich trading guilds attempting this. They could split among themselves the merchants per zone and then proceed to buy off all of a specific item.

Unlike in real world economics, this game has no antitrust laws to prevent such a thing from happening.

Solution - The problem is UNLIMITED. Make it 20 or 100 extra slots, but unlimited will crash the economy and the community.

Agreed.

I was thinking the same, that players will use the space to horde and ration out materials.

Either way, I say bring it on. Shake things up!

istateres · April 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The OP is complete and absolutely wrong. He is making a huge assumption based on other assumptions.

A - who cares if we horde TAs. They're virtually worthless already. I already horde kuta and other gold matts. People who sell them for gold will still do so. People who horde them already do.

B - players that share will still share. I'd give a guild member the shirt off my back but I don't fill the guild bank with worthless matts which is what is mostly out into the bank. I usually destroy my overly excessive provisioning matts since I have tons.

If you no longer destroy your excessive provisioning mats, as you have been; then there will be MORE available. Supply is increased. Prices drop. That's exactly the point I made.

nine9six · April 2016

If people wanted to horde mats, they'd do it already.

I currently have 12 (twelve) accounts. 10 of those I used to make 3 personal Guild Banks. The rest are Mules. Needless to say, I have a LOT of crafting Materials. The Guild Banks are 1,500 slots + all the Mules with maxed Backpacks (not adding this early in the AM).

Having the ability to not need to chew-up 3 Guild Slots and 4 mules on my Main account means I'll have 3 additional Guild Slots for Buying / Selling Guilds (economy!) and will be able to level 4 more Toons + 4 more if / when I buy Character Slots.

This means I can spend more time playing the game and less time playing Banking Online. I understand that is my choice to do so, but you've *never* seen me on the forums complaining about my "habit". It's my deal. I do it to / for myself.

I am now, officially, helpful.

Leandor · April 2016

The materials available in abundance are those used for levelling, not those of high value. Having crafting bags will not change availability of say Kuta or Tempering Alloy.

Those were sold for money, not for space constraints.

Try finding ow level mats on guild vendors, they are limited now because prices are low and farming them is a matter of minutes.

I do not find the least bit of substance in your arguments. Therefore I completely disagree with your statement.

istateres · April 2016

nine9six wrote: »

If people wanted to horde mats, they'd do it already.

I currently have 12 (twelve) accounts. 10 of those I used to make 3 personal Guild Banks. The rest are Mules. Needless to say, I have a LOT of crafting Materials. The Guild Banks are 1,500 slots + all the Mules with maxed Backpacks (not adding this early in the AM).

Having the ability to not need to chew-up 3 Guild Slots and 4 mules on my Main account means I'll have 3 additional Guild Slots for Buying / Selling Guilds (economy!) and will be able to level 4 more Toons + 4 more if / when I buy Character Slots.

This means I can spend more time playing the game and less time playing Banking Online. I understand that is my choice to do so, but you've *never* seen me on the forums complaining about my "habit". It's my deal. I do it to / for myself.

I am now, officially, helpful.

Thanks! That is helpful. What will you do with all those extra slots you will soon have available?

Inarre · April 2016

Cant even hold one stack of each item at the moment... So while your opinion may have merit, i think at minimum we should be able to have a crafting bag to hold one stack of each crafting item.

Still, when players want money they will still go through their banks and see what they can sell. Im sure crafting bags will not be spared

i know mine won't!

Ballzy321 · April 2016

lets just please end this thread now. crafting bags shoulda been added at launch of this game

nine9six · April 2016

istateres wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

If people wanted to horde mats, they'd do it already.

I currently have 12 (twelve) accounts. 10 of those I used to make 3 personal Guild Banks. The rest are Mules. Needless to say, I have a LOT of crafting Materials. The Guild Banks are 1,500 slots + all the Mules with maxed Backpacks (not adding this early in the AM).

Having the ability to not need to chew-up 3 Guild Slots and 4 mules on my Main account means I'll have 3 additional Guild Slots for Buying / Selling Guilds (economy!) and will be able to level 4 more Toons + 4 more if / when I buy Character Slots.

This means I can spend more time playing the game and less time playing Banking Online. I understand that is my choice to do so, but you've *never* seen me on the forums complaining about my "habit". It's my deal. I do it to / for myself.

I am now, officially, helpful.

Thanks! That is helpful. What will you do with all those extra slots you will soon have available?

Level 1 of each "other" class build. Right now I have the typical:

Magicka Templar

Magicka Sorc

Stamina DK

Stamina NB

I will soon have:

Stamina Templar

Stamina Sorc

Magicka DK

Magicka NB

...all of which will be on my Main Account and access to my (capped) CP pool. Loving these changes!

kuro-dono · April 2016

lol. the conserns of filthy traders? boohoo

//

nine9six · April 2016

Also (OT-ish) I will probably end-up buying those 4 Toon Slots and leveling one of each again just for PvE. Right now I turn-down (for what?!) a lot of Dungeon Requests because I've made the switch and went all-in PvP on my toons. I don't feel like juggling Skills / Gear for both and would rather simply hop onto a toon dedicated for it.

...plus all of these toons will mean I'll have *that* many more Writs to do.

All of this will be made possibly by these bags without having to drastically alter my game style.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2016

Do we really need another thread about crafting bags? I mean there is already a 21 page thread about it.

nine9six · April 2016

I view that as more of an:

I should be able to buy them without being subbed.

Not an:

I think it will have this effect on the game because of...

Of course I haven't been in that other thread very much because there's way too much entitlement for my tastes. So, perhaps I'm wrong.

Bam_Bam · April 2016

Nonsense.