Looks like OP's prof just got to a new section in Sociology this semester.

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Bro i'm latin and i don't feel offended at all it just makes me ask why they chose the Aztec looking art style for argonians instead of something the jungles of south Asia because its kind of lame.

The relationship with the Hist really makes me think of Ayahuasca in the Amazon, but Peru has a few different architectural styles dotting its landscape depending on the variations in climate.

As a gay man, a progressive libertarian, an atheist, and general human pluralist I can honestly say this is the single most odious thread I've ever seen on these forums.

I'm serious. The fact that you took time out of your day to compose a long train of thought addressing a problem that's not even a problem is everything that is wrong with the left in 2016. And I say that as a member of the political left.

If you have the time and energy to worry about something like cultural appropriation, I can guarantee one thing: you are contributing absolutely nothing to the betterment of humanity and have probably never suffered a day of hardship in your life.

I say this with nothing but love: grow up [snip] and do something for your fellow human being. If you don't know where to start, find a kid that doesn't have enough to eat and go from there.



[edited for bait]

@Appleblade Completely agree.

To OP.

"cultural appropriation" itself, as a term, has elements of bigotry in its assumptions. I do appreciate your cultural sensitivity and polite approach to the question of cultural influence within TES, but perhaps less loaded terminology next time?

As for those elements of my ethnic background which seem to have had some influence on the series, I completely approve. Even if I didn't, however, my opinion on the subject would and should mean nothing. It's a commercial product; one should vote with one's dollars.

- Dras

DovresMalven wrote: »

All im gonna say is I commend your socio-political views but youre talking to a gaming community...

Please don't make culture, gender, race or age-based assumptions about people's (implied lack of) capacity for empathy, etc.

[minor edit to remove quote]

ParaNostram wrote: »

This is a pretty interesting thread. Reminds me of the time I wrote a paper on how Morrowind is symbolic of the province of Palestine under Roman Occupation during the time when supposedly Jesus lived (it was not a religious paper, I was not religious, I am not presently religious, it was just an interesting observation).

Sounds like an interesting paper.

...And I still want to play a sload...

...I find Elder Scrolls to be one of the most inclusive games I've ever played. We have cultures represented so positively; each one has their hero to be admired. I don't know why someone thinks this leads to cultural appropriation. We have amazing LGBT heroes in Elder Scrolls, especially in Elder Scrolls Online. I spend so much time wondering which historical figures, cultures, or literature they were inspired by. I find that aspect of Elder Scrolls beautiful and amazing.

I'm Vietnamese-Native American; and honestly, I don't see anything in this game as cultural appropriation at all. I find it beautiful and inclusive.

I just don't get how you think this leads to culture appropriation.

*Edited to get my thoughts better put together

Laplace wrote: »

I culturally appropriated the holy bajeezus out of some fishy sticks in-game today.

It was absolutely delicious and I refuse to check my vampiric privilege.

Stop oppressing me.

brandon wrote: »

I really hope ZOS doesn't take anything this person says seriously because this is just plain foolish

Even if they did, they'd have to rewrite the entire game. They've adopted from so many cultures, historical figures, and literature themes, that really it'd be easier to just shut down the game and stop selling anything in the Elder Scrolls Franchise.

And while I know OP means well... this thread isn't going to accomplish anything and is just going to anger those who are tired of politic debates in gaming.

The dangerous part of this rhetoric is if anyone gets inspired by something they find beautiful or admirable, they get accused of cultural appropriation. And I feel this gets in the way of educating others about these cultures and so many minorities. We're setting ourselves backward.

We should be focusing on education and inclusivity... And Elder Scrolls has made me stop and think or stop and look up what could be the culture a quest or race was inspired by.

And please don't let imagination burn. If we weren't allowed to be inspired by cultures, we wouldn't learn anything or move society forward.

... Okay, and in all seriousness, this thread needs MORE TALOS.

@Feynn
As I understand it, my wife also being very much in the social justice movement, the primary issue in cultural appropriation is the essential "stealing" of what you might call cultural intellectual property and profiting from the trade and creativity of another people group. For me, the analogy of Walmart coming into a small town and undercutting family businesses is helpful. The dominant Anglo culture assimilate and reappropriates elements of other cultures, potentially diluting their significance and undercutting true representitives of that culture who may be trying to make their living off of their particular products.

I do not think it can merely mean someone got offended because of a supposed cultural reference in some form of entertainment. For one, if anyone could shut down any enterprise just by claiming to be offended, everyone would be trapped under a bizarre tyranny in which those with the weakest constitutions could bully the rest into constant back-pedaling and appeasement. It's like the kid in school who, in trying to get you to do what he wants, instead of threatening to hit you, threatens to tell the teacher on you, even though you don't think you've been doing anything wrong. If he whines and threatens to tell on you enough, you're likely to give in to him just to shut him up. Clearly we need a more mature understanding of cultural appropriation than this.

Whether or not you know someone who is or is not offended by something should not be how you measure your attitude toward cultural appropriation. This is obviously circumstantial. Whether you know 10 people who are offended and 1 who is not, or vice versa is just an accident of circumstance and gives no meaningful data to how the group as a whole would respond. A better question to ask would be, "is this people group generally being adversely effected, materially or financially, by the dominant culture's appropriation?"

So assuming I have the idea right, the question of whether cultural appropriation can actually occur in a video game should be addressed before we ever get to its moral implications. I would argue that it cannot. Certainly a video game, movie, book, or other media could demean a particular culture in its representation, but that's not cultural appropriation, its just a display of biggotry. And in a piece of entertainment, I think that this would be the only reasonable thing to potentially get offended at. Now further, in the fantasy genre some races may draw heavily on different cultures to help those races feel distictive from one another. There is nothing demeaning in this, nor is any harm done to any real people group who's cultures are represented or alluded to.

TLDR: No.

P.S If you want to chew on something actually worth thinking about, consider the restuarant industry and the music industry. Both are deeply infused with cultural appropriation that actually can have a material impact, yet these are largely ignored. I'm not saying they shouldn't be ignored, but it's worth noting the inconsistency.

I hope one day we have a world where we all focus on our shared humanity rather than working out always what is 'mine' and what is 'yours'.

My favourite book is Chinese and the music I am listening to right now is Slavic, Norse and from various cultures across the Middle East.

However I do take the OPs point to a degree. Something that has a spiritual or scared element from any culture should not be used lightly unless you have thought about that aspect first.

A dreamcatcher - well my understanding was they were not really anything to do with catching dreams but were to do with the beauty and intelligence of spiders and their webs. Therefore I have one in tribute to the lovely spider that lives in the corner of my kitchen (and has been there for several years).

I wear a Norse raven pendant but I do so not because of anything to do with Odin but because I simply like crows, ravens and magpies a lot.

If someone is wearing something or doing something you don't understand then ask them - they might have their own personal reasons that you don't know about. Symbols are often very personal as well as cultural things and you should not always assume something has the meaning that you think it has.

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Should Italians be offended that they are portrayed as necromancers?.

Or plumbers.