Champ System potential problem

Burning_Talons · April 2016

Alright so with CP being the main source of level how will new players be competitive? Lets say 10yrs from now and cp cap is at 3300? How will new players fair? Will they be casted of to non-cp dungeons and campaigns? Will you offer cp booster packs? Im just thinking long term

Van_0S · April 2016

Apparently, they will reduce the CP cap for dungeons , nerf bosses and add more non cp campaign in cyrodiil.

FriedEggSandwich · April 2016

I'm guessing that as they increase the cp cap they will continue to reduce the amount of xp you need between cp at lower ranks. Right now if you have zero cp and hit v1 you earn cp at a fairly rapid rate. Well I'm suggesting that rate would be even faster when the cp cap raises. This way only the last 200cp to the cap would be a grind. Players who just start the game should expect to be behind, but hopefully the catch up mechanic will give them hope of catching up.

Averya_Teira · April 2016

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Apparently, they will reduce the CP cap for dungeons , nerf bosses and add more non cp campaign in cyrodiil.

That could get boring really fast for people with CP though...

Van_0S · April 2016

Averya_Teira wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Apparently, they will reduce the CP cap for dungeons , nerf bosses and add more non cp campaign in cyrodiil.

That could get boring really fast for people with CP though...

Yea....but nowadays that's ZOS business motto/model. Sell their game to new players.

Vangy · April 2016

Crown store item:

CP boost : 75% bonus to CP gain -->1500 crowns (1 week duration)
CP ULTRA boost: 125% bonus to CP gain -->2500 crowns (1 week duration)
WAH WAH I WANT IT NOW boost: 300% bonus to CP gain --> 5000 crowns (1.5 weeks duration)

Compound this with lowering amount of exp the lower your CP is, new players will be fine. When cap is 1000 most likely someone with 0 CP would earn a CP every 5000 EXP or something lol.

ZOS : $_$ , gimmmmeee all yo money

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

They can be competitive by using non-CP Campaigns. In PvE they can just keep growing.

Sharakor · April 2016

It will not be competitive and the CP gap in 10 years will probably be around 851 CP if not too many people cry on forums.

Ackwalan · April 2016

When the cp max is 3000 (or whatever) the catch up mechanic will be so insanely fast, a serious player could catch up in a month or two.

MissBizz · April 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I'm guessing that as they increase the cp cap they will continue to reduce the amount of xp you need between cp at lower ranks. Right now if you have zero cp and hit v1 you earn cp at a fairly rapid rate. Well I'm suggesting that rate would be even faster when the cp cap raises. This way only the last 200cp to the cap would be a grind. Players who just start the game should expect to be behind, but hopefully the catch up mechanic will give them hope of catching up.

Exactly. It's a calculation (formula) right now that determines how quickly you earn CP. Once they change that cap, the amount of XP you need for your beginning CP gets smaller. If it really does get to a huge cap, it'll end up only taking new players like 100-200 XP per CP for the beginning. (Made up numbers obviously). On my phone but if you search around on the PTS forum they have actually posted the formula.. So you could plop "2000" into the CP cap part and see what it would take.

WalkingLegacy · April 2016

They're shooting themselves in the foot with the CP system. The balancing nightmare is already showing itself.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch · April 2016

I don't think it will ever go higher than 900 CP. They already removed the achievement for 3600 and just have 300 per tree. I am guessing they know this issue as it has been brought up on several forums already. 900 cp will be the cap and by then they will introduce a new progression system.

Sallington · April 2016

CP Packs on the crown store. The game will be fully F2P well before we get to that CP cap though.

TequilaFire · April 2016

They would be so lucky to be here 10 years from now!

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Alright so with CP being the main source of level how will new players be competitive? Lets say 10yrs from now and cp cap is at 3300? How will new players fair? Will they be casted of to non-cp dungeons and campaigns? Will you offer cp booster packs? Im just thinking long term

Well first off, CP wont be the main source of how you level.
CP is just a passive account progression for "passives that have varying influences depending on choice and use per character)

I do read that maybe ZOS or maybe others are suggesting this CP is a main source of leveling but its not.
After the first 200 CP's, the diminishing returns are so much that I can't consider it nor interpret it as a "main source" but yes its a passive source.

As far as how will new players fair, etc....CP ranks are not what make us better, its the use and placement of those points in relation the skills and weapons + gear and base character stats and enchants.

This isn't a VR system where each level gives you base stats and skill and stat points

myrrrorb14_ESO · April 2016

Shouldn't be an issue really. The formula for xp needed for champion points is inversely related to the cap. So when the cap is raised by a substantial number, it make those with nothing to burn through champion ranks at lightning like speeds.

And of course diminishing returns means you just need to be in the ballpark. Difference between 0 and 300 is huge, but not 400 to 500 is not overwhelming.

Robbmrp · April 2016

I'm sorry to say but at this point, I don't see ESO being around for 10 years. The state of the game to date, the bugs that can't be fixed or the cyrodil lag. They've got another 2 years tops unless things take a really quick 180.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Shouldn't be an issue really. The formula for xp needed for champion points is inversely related to the cap. So when the cap is raised by a substantial number, it make those with nothing to burn through champion ranks at lightning like speeds.

And of course diminishing returns means you just need to be in the ballpark. Difference between 0 and 300 is huge, but not 400 to 500 is not overwhelming.

diminishing returns has nothing to do with the catch-up system
each CP point used applies less and less of an increase in % of the specific passive...the more points you gain, the smaller the increase so lets say they raise the cap...by another 500, that sounds like a lot but maybe its 3% more overall of an impact.

s7732425ub17_ESO · April 2016

They need to completely overhaul the CP system.

Right now it's pure vertical progression, which is the complete opposite of what they intended from the start. It's why they are already running into power creep issues with new content.

Miszou · April 2016

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

And of course diminishing returns means you just need to be in the ballpark. Difference between 0 and 300 is huge, but not 400 to 500 is not overwhelming.

Right. I couldn't tell you how many CP's I have to the nearest 100. I neither know or care.

Every now and then, I'll check the Champion Points screen and allocate 20 points, and gain like 5% somewhere, then I'll be like "meh... I doubt I'll even notice, but at least now I can harvest stuff twice as fast!"

The diminishing returns aren't going to make the top-end super powerful - it just gives them a nice shiny, Skinner Box reward when they see they've gained on more Thief point.

Yay! 0.1 % lower spell cost! Hell yeah! Now I'm gonna pwn those noobs in Cryodil!

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

Miszou wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

And of course diminishing returns means you just need to be in the ballpark. Difference between 0 and 300 is huge, but not 400 to 500 is not overwhelming.

Right. I couldn't tell you how many CP's I have to the nearest 100. I neither know or care.

Every now and then, I'll check the Champion Points screen and allocate 20 points, and gain like 5% somewhere, then I'll be like "meh... I doubt I'll even notice, but at least now I can harvest stuff twice as fast!"

The diminishing returns aren't going to make the top-end super powerful - it just gives them a nice shiny, Skinner Box reward when they see they've gained on more Thief point.

Yay! 0.1 % lower spell cost! Hell yeah! Now I'm gonna pwn those noobs in Cryodil!

this person understand CP!

Valrien · April 2016

Miszou wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

And of course diminishing returns means you just need to be in the ballpark. Difference between 0 and 300 is huge, but not 400 to 500 is not overwhelming.

Right. I couldn't tell you how many CP's I have to the nearest 100. I neither know or care.

Every now and then, I'll check the Champion Points screen and allocate 20 points, and gain like 5% somewhere, then I'll be like "meh... I doubt I'll even notice, but at least now I can harvest stuff twice as fast!"

The diminishing returns aren't going to make the top-end super powerful - it just gives them a nice shiny, Skinner Box reward when they see they've gained on more Thief point.

Yay! 0.1 % lower spell cost! Hell yeah! Now I'm gonna pwn those noobs in Cryodil!

I MO the only points that matter are Mage points and only then for those looking to fully optimize DPS.

Moonshadow66 · April 2016

Imho, a new player (means, a low level/non-vet player), doesn't need any CP. The game is easy enough to play without. Trust me, I've done both, and not even once. Therefore it would be best to disable the ability to spend CPs on non-vet characters for the players who already have CPs.
To go even a step further, one can also play non-vet content easily without crafted SET items, I've done both ways as well, works fine without. So if the abilty to equip set items would be disabled as well, every new player is as competitive as any other non-vet character player which does have vet-characters and CPs already on those vet-characters.
Another thing on top of this would be CPs not being account-wide.
Competitiveness restored.

myrrrorb14_ESO · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Shouldn't be an issue really. The formula for xp needed for champion points is inversely related to the cap. So when the cap is raised by a substantial number, it make those with nothing to burn through champion ranks at lightning like speeds.

And of course diminishing returns means you just need to be in the ballpark. Difference between 0 and 300 is huge, but not 400 to 500 is not overwhelming.

diminishing returns has nothing to do with the catch-up system
each CP point used applies less and less of an increase in % of the specific passive...the more points you gain, the smaller the increase so lets say they raise the cap...by another 500, that sounds like a lot but maybe its 3% more overall of an impact.

There was a paragraph break in between catch-up and diminishing returns. I was mentioning diminishing returns to stress the point that there is less differences the further you go up the scale. Which I believe you just proved and agreed with.

Burning_Talons · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Alright so with CP being the main source of level how will new players be competitive? Lets say 10yrs from now and cp cap is at 3300? How will new players fair? Will they be casted of to non-cp dungeons and campaigns? Will you offer cp booster packs? Im just thinking long term

Well first off, CP wont be the main source of how you level.
CP is just a passive account progression for "passives that have varying influences depending on choice and use per character)

I do read that maybe ZOS or maybe others are suggesting this CP is a main source of leveling but its not.
After the first 200 CP's, the diminishing returns are so much that I can't consider it nor interpret it as a "main source" but yes its a passive source.

As far as how will new players fair, etc....CP ranks are not what make us better, its the use and placement of those points in relation the skills and weapons + gear and base character stats and enchants.

This isn't a VR system where each level gives you base stats and skill and stat points

CP may not make you better but a VER with 0 CP is not gonna kill a noob with 1000 that easily

flguy147ub17_ESO · April 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

They're shooting themselves in the foot with the CP system. The balancing nightmare is already showing itself.

This 100%.... horrible horrible system. Balancing issues even with PVE will be harder and harder. How can you make a dungeon for a level 50 with 10 CP and a dungeon for a level 50 with CP. I know you have normal and hard mode but once you hit endgame, many players will want to player with guildmates and friends. So the only way to make it viable is to make endgame dungeons easy enough for brand new level 50s to do..... in which we are already seeing the nerfs come. Having the power gap that huge of a difference from players the same exact level and both supposively endgame players is ridiculous. Add on top of that the gear gap which i think should be the difference from a max level character who has played a while versus a brand new 50. This is all going by the future where there will be no vet ranks.