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Do You Think "DARK BROTHERHOOD" is Last Chance of ZOS
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jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »
Well.. they ARE going to take away the veteran system in the next expansion as far as i know.. it's a change that was in store for a long time so i can understand why they didn't scale stuff to vet 16 lvl... but anyway,it's just a matter of waiting and see how the new system will be and if things will change after that as far as this specific point goes.
i hope whatever they do, the gear i have on now isnt changed to the point i cant wear it, that will be the big dealbreaker for alot of people, how they handle all the vet level gear, cause if i cant wear my vr16 stuff, i might just leave and never look back, i worked hard to get it and i dont want it outlvel me because of some new progression system
Thats part of the game tho. New DLC means new gear etc to earn. You cant just make one set of armor and expect to wear it forever once you hit cap.2 -
bloodenragedb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »
Well.. they ARE going to take away the veteran system in the next expansion as far as i know.. it's a change that was in store for a long time so i can understand why they didn't scale stuff to vet 16 lvl... but anyway,it's just a matter of waiting and see how the new system will be and if things will change after that as far as this specific point goes.
i hope whatever they do, the gear i have on now isnt changed to the point i cant wear it, that will be the big dealbreaker for alot of people, how they handle all the vet level gear, cause if i cant wear my vr16 stuff, i might just leave and never look back, i worked hard to get it and i dont want it outlvel me because of some new progression system
Thats part of the game tho. New DLC means new gear etc to earn. You cant just make one set of armor and expect to wear it forever once you hit cap.
thats not what i mean, what i meant was the gear that i have on NOW i want access to
with the new progression system, i dont want my gear to be labeled a different level higher than what i am in whatever progression system takes its place
example, my gear is now vr16, and i can wear it,
it dont want it labeled cp 120, and de-equipped, and not able to use until i reach cp1200 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pls stahp this kind of threads. Everybody is whining their *ss*s off, but most keep playing.
There is nothing wrong with your opinion on a game. But don't dedicate your life on whining on forums
(PS: I based my conclusion on my time on the forums and the reoccurring forums users on these kind of threads )
it is not whining ok...it is reality that people see...and we share this things to stop being...And share here what people thing and what can happen..I personally give 2 years of me to this game and many DOLARS...not to whin ok...So be respectfull and tell your opinion not insult people...
Like i said everyone can share their opinion. But in my perspective most of the threads are like this and like I said I'm addressing the ones who complain all the time and aren't happy with anything ''reoccurring forums users''. Maybe it's time to make one 1 thread about all your complaints and post there.
Because I'm kinda done with my recent tab being filled with complaints of others.
Then why come to the forums if you don't like what most people have to say. Because complaining about people complaining doesn't seem much better. In fact, it is worse.1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »
Well.. they ARE going to take away the veteran system in the next expansion as far as i know.. it's a change that was in store for a long time so i can understand why they didn't scale stuff to vet 16 lvl... but anyway,it's just a matter of waiting and see how the new system will be and if things will change after that as far as this specific point goes.
i hope whatever they do, the gear i have on now isnt changed to the point i cant wear it, that will be the big dealbreaker for alot of people, how they handle all the vet level gear, cause if i cant wear my vr16 stuff, i might just leave and never look back, i worked hard to get it and i dont want it outlvel me because of some new progression system
Thats part of the game tho. New DLC means new gear etc to earn. You cant just make one set of armor and expect to wear it forever once you hit cap.
thats not what i mean, what i meant was the gear that i have on NOW i want access to
with the new progression system, i dont want my gear to be labeled a different level higher than what i am in whatever progression system takes its place
example, my gear is now vr16, and i can wear it,
it dont want it labeled cp 120, and de-equipped, and not able to use until i reach cp120
If you are V16 then you will automatically have enough CP to wear your current gear. Not just that all of your characters who are not VR16 now will be at the new "vr16" once vet ranks are removed and they also can use it.Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on April 19, 2016 12:13PM1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »
Well.. they ARE going to take away the veteran system in the next expansion as far as i know.. it's a change that was in store for a long time so i can understand why they didn't scale stuff to vet 16 lvl... but anyway,it's just a matter of waiting and see how the new system will be and if things will change after that as far as this specific point goes.
i hope whatever they do, the gear i have on now isnt changed to the point i cant wear it, that will be the big dealbreaker for alot of people, how they handle all the vet level gear, cause if i cant wear my vr16 stuff, i might just leave and never look back, i worked hard to get it and i dont want it outlvel me because of some new progression system
Thats part of the game tho. New DLC means new gear etc to earn. You cant just make one set of armor and expect to wear it forever once you hit cap.
thats not what i mean, what i meant was the gear that i have on NOW i want access to
with the new progression system, i dont want my gear to be labeled a different level higher than what i am in whatever progression system takes its place
example, my gear is now vr16, and i can wear it,
it dont want it labeled cp 120, and de-equipped, and not able to use until i reach cp120
Gear will be fine. They will have cp tied to gear use, but the max is 160 champion points. They stated that if your not at the 160, they will give it to you because they don't want this problem you mentioned to occur. Not sure how it will be implemented, but bottom line is don't worry about not being able to wear your gear.1 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »NinjaApacHe wrote: »Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.
Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.
See it from this side - people who pvp, have done most of the stuff in the game already. They have bought pretty much all what they will buy already - ZOS made their money with them already and there is not much to gain from this group, because like we see on this forum, they burn through new content in a rush and then they complain again. They might not even buy the content but just sub for a month - so what is to be gained from them - 4 times 15$ per year. Whereas a casual gamer has most likely not bought all yet, but will over time and he will stay subscribed, while not being a drain on the servers and he will most likely not complain, because he will never discover that there are problems, because he is playing so slowly. This is the group from which they gain money in the future and that is why they cater the game for them. It is just like in real life business as well, where the target group are young and new people, who have nothing and need all - old people, who have all already, are not a target group anymore - and that is equivalent to pvp gamers - the money is made with them, not much to gain from them.
You know... The more and more I read from your posts, the more and more things slowly start to "click". Things that I have wondered begin to fall in place. @Fengrush has had a similar effect on me, and has caused me to truly pause for a moment and think about what is going on with ZO$. You know? He encourages deep thought, and gives it how it is. And now you. You appear to have the same effect. A person of logic and thought...
It's funny how the more I immerse myself in the forums, and community overall — the more I tend to slowly grasp the "big picture" being painted before my eyes...
It is just the reality of a business, and ZOS is a business. You can enjoy the game nevertheless, I just write that to show, that some expectations are not realistic - ZOS will never cater mostly to pvp or make this a main point of the game again. They might have done this at start, to attract people and they might have thought, well, we can make a lot of money with those, who do not know TES games yet. And this goal is achieved, not much to gain in this segment anymore. And now they can do, what the game should have been in the first place - an ever expanding oasis for TES fans - and for them the game has to feel like a single player game, where they can do nearly all alone. They can group up, but most will not do it, because they come from single player games and are used to play solo. They might group for a little while, but return to their old ways of gaming.
You make too much sense and understand things too clearly to be posting on these forums.
It's nice to see someone who "gets it." Most don't.
So lets take this to its most ruthles business conclusion:
1. Minimum wage costs - skeleton crew who cant accomplish anything of substance.
2. Minimum hardware maintenance and assets - strip hardware to the core and just let it barely crawl along to say it still works..sometimes. Then cover legal avenues to say the service is best effort and not guaranteed.
3. Maximum income - use marketing and sales tactics to keep the players paying as much as possible for as long as possible to go with the minimum outlay. Only say the minimum necessary and only when necessary.
ie. Maximise income minimise outlay. Whether the customer enjoys it or not is neither here nor there....as long as they keep paying or new people arrive.
Thats the bottom line from a cold ruthless business standpoint.
I do want to hope that this is not the reality at ZOS central.
I would like to think they are building a long term partnership with their playerbase base to ensure mutual long term happiness.
But that what the marketing dept are employed to make you believe, regardless of whether its actually true or not.
/shrugs. We'll see with DB.
@Rune_Relic , you say: "So lets take this to its most ruthles business conclusion:....." and then you sum it up.
First: I think what you describe is NOT a ruthless business conclusion..... It is NORMAL PRACTICE if you manage a product that has no future but still generates revenues and profit maximalisation is mainly done by cost cutting.
But imo this game has a great potential for a bright future for years to come with a further expanding of content and features.
In such a case profit maximalisation is achieved by a combination of increasing the scope, nurturing the existing customer base, increasing the customer base and keep an eye on cost efficiency & customer profile distribution.
It could ofc be that the management of ZOS does NOT believe that ESO has a great potential..... in which case they would wind down to squeeze out money.
But I guess and believe (not hope !) that ZOS, even seen by the cold eyes of the ruthless beancounters, see ESO as a nice pearl to have and worthwhile to invest & grow.... and continue to harvest for a long time to come.
I also believe that the operational people of ZOS love this game and are proud to work for such a fantastic game.
And as long as they get the resources.... THAT is what will count !!!
ofc you can never trust profi marketing guys..... marketing guys are never really attached to the actual business.... they live in a fluffy world.... they use trust as a tool only.... regardless whether a business is prospering or going downhill.
Being more visible in the "long term partnership for mutual long term happiness" is somewhere in the learning curve of ZOS, and I feel confident that they are working on being more present there. Spending some resources, in visibility and communication, to make us feel more comfortable, is not a waste. But again, what counts is the resources available for an enthusiast operational team !!!
And please bear with your "we'll see" a bit longer than just the DB DLC.
give it a bit more patience.
I guess ZOS needs till year end to have their ship in good order again
Edited by hrothbern on April 19, 2016 12:40PM"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »
Well.. they ARE going to take away the veteran system in the next expansion as far as i know.. it's a change that was in store for a long time so i can understand why they didn't scale stuff to vet 16 lvl... but anyway,it's just a matter of waiting and see how the new system will be and if things will change after that as far as this specific point goes.
i hope whatever they do, the gear i have on now isnt changed to the point i cant wear it, that will be the big dealbreaker for alot of people, how they handle all the vet level gear, cause if i cant wear my vr16 stuff, i might just leave and never look back, i worked hard to get it and i dont want it outlvel me because of some new progression system
Thats part of the game tho. New DLC means new gear etc to earn. You cant just make one set of armor and expect to wear it forever once you hit cap.
thats not what i mean, what i meant was the gear that i have on NOW i want access to
with the new progression system, i dont want my gear to be labeled a different level higher than what i am in whatever progression system takes its place
example, my gear is now vr16, and i can wear it,
it dont want it labeled cp 120, and de-equipped, and not able to use until i reach cp120
Gear will be fine. They will have cp tied to gear use, but the max is 160 champion points. They stated that if your not at the 160, they will give it to you because they don't want this problem you mentioned to occur. Not sure how it will be implemented, but bottom line is don't worry about not being able to wear your gear.
No the cap is 501 probably will be more once DB comes out. 160 is the new VR16 and they said everyone who has a VR16 will have a minimum of 160 cp once vet ranks are removed. Ya people would freak right out if all their gear suddenly fell offf so I dont blame you for worrying heh.1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »
Well.. they ARE going to take away the veteran system in the next expansion as far as i know.. it's a change that was in store for a long time so i can understand why they didn't scale stuff to vet 16 lvl... but anyway,it's just a matter of waiting and see how the new system will be and if things will change after that as far as this specific point goes.
i hope whatever they do, the gear i have on now isnt changed to the point i cant wear it, that will be the big dealbreaker for alot of people, how they handle all the vet level gear, cause if i cant wear my vr16 stuff, i might just leave and never look back, i worked hard to get it and i dont want it outlvel me because of some new progression system
Thats part of the game tho. New DLC means new gear etc to earn. You cant just make one set of armor and expect to wear it forever once you hit cap.
thats not what i mean, what i meant was the gear that i have on NOW i want access to
with the new progression system, i dont want my gear to be labeled a different level higher than what i am in whatever progression system takes its place
example, my gear is now vr16, and i can wear it,
it dont want it labeled cp 120, and de-equipped, and not able to use until i reach cp120
Gear will be fine. They will have cp tied to gear use, but the max is 160 champion points. They stated that if your not at the 160, they will give it to you because they don't want this problem you mentioned to occur. Not sure how it will be implemented, but bottom line is don't worry about not being able to wear your gear.
No the cap is 501 probably will be more once DB comes out. 160 is the new VR16 and they said everyone who has a VR16 will have a minimum of 160 cp once vet ranks are removed. Ya people would freak right out if all their gear suddenly fell offf so I dont blame you for worrying heh.
I know the cap for players is 501 with a possible increase coming. I was talking about the cp cap for gear. Gear accessebility is capped at 160.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »
Well.. they ARE going to take away the veteran system in the next expansion as far as i know.. it's a change that was in store for a long time so i can understand why they didn't scale stuff to vet 16 lvl... but anyway,it's just a matter of waiting and see how the new system will be and if things will change after that as far as this specific point goes.
i hope whatever they do, the gear i have on now isnt changed to the point i cant wear it, that will be the big dealbreaker for alot of people, how they handle all the vet level gear, cause if i cant wear my vr16 stuff, i might just leave and never look back, i worked hard to get it and i dont want it outlvel me because of some new progression system
Thats part of the game tho. New DLC means new gear etc to earn. You cant just make one set of armor and expect to wear it forever once you hit cap.
thats not what i mean, what i meant was the gear that i have on NOW i want access to
with the new progression system, i dont want my gear to be labeled a different level higher than what i am in whatever progression system takes its place
example, my gear is now vr16, and i can wear it,
it dont want it labeled cp 120, and de-equipped, and not able to use until i reach cp120
Gear will be fine. They will have cp tied to gear use, but the max is 160 champion points. They stated that if your not at the 160, they will give it to you because they don't want this problem you mentioned to occur. Not sure how it will be implemented, but bottom line is don't worry about not being able to wear your gear.
No the cap is 501 probably will be more once DB comes out. 160 is the new VR16 and they said everyone who has a VR16 will have a minimum of 160 cp once vet ranks are removed. Ya people would freak right out if all their gear suddenly fell offf so I dont blame you for worrying heh.
I know the cap for players is 501 with a possible increase coming. I was talking about the cp cap for gear. Gear accessebility is capped at 160.
I dont know they said all the new stuff with DB will still be capped at 160. Probably going to have to hit 200 possibly 250 for the new stuff Id think. The old stuff yes you are right. VR16 will be the same as 160 cp once that goes away.Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on April 19, 2016 12:21PM1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »
Well.. they ARE going to take away the veteran system in the next expansion as far as i know.. it's a change that was in store for a long time so i can understand why they didn't scale stuff to vet 16 lvl... but anyway,it's just a matter of waiting and see how the new system will be and if things will change after that as far as this specific point goes.
i hope whatever they do, the gear i have on now isnt changed to the point i cant wear it, that will be the big dealbreaker for alot of people, how they handle all the vet level gear, cause if i cant wear my vr16 stuff, i might just leave and never look back, i worked hard to get it and i dont want it outlvel me because of some new progression system
Thats part of the game tho. New DLC means new gear etc to earn. You cant just make one set of armor and expect to wear it forever once you hit cap.
thats not what i mean, what i meant was the gear that i have on NOW i want access to
with the new progression system, i dont want my gear to be labeled a different level higher than what i am in whatever progression system takes its place
example, my gear is now vr16, and i can wear it,
it dont want it labeled cp 120, and de-equipped, and not able to use until i reach cp120
Gear will be fine. They will have cp tied to gear use, but the max is 160 champion points. They stated that if your not at the 160, they will give it to you because they don't want this problem you mentioned to occur. Not sure how it will be implemented, but bottom line is don't worry about not being able to wear your gear.
No the cap is 501 probably will be more once DB comes out. 160 is the new VR16 and they said everyone who has a VR16 will have a minimum of 160 cp once vet ranks are removed. Ya people would freak right out if all their gear suddenly fell offf so I dont blame you for worrying heh.
I know the cap for players is 501 with a possible increase coming. I was talking about the cp cap for gear. Gear accessebility is capped at 160.
I dont know they said all the new stuff with DB will still be capped at 160. Probably going to have to hit 200 possibly 250 for the new stuff Id think. The old stuff yes you are right. VR16 will be the same as 160 cp once that goes away.
They have not said anything about raising gear accessibility cap for new gear each new uodate. It just doesn't make sense to get rid of the vr grind just to replace it with a cp grind for gear. The whole reason people wanted the vet system gone, primarily, was the crazy grind. Although I do think it is possible they will do this down the road, I highly doubt we will see that in dB or even this year. Especially since they have moved to a casual player model this past year.0 -
RaXZon✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Pls stahp this kind of threads. Everybody is whining their *ss*s off, but most keep playing.
There is nothing wrong with your opinion on a game. But don't dedicate your life on whining on forums
(PS: I based my conclusion on my time on the forums and the reoccurring forums users on these kind of threads )
it is not whining ok...it is reality that people see...and we share this things to stop being...And share here what people thing and what can happen..I personally give 2 years of me to this game and many DOLARS...not to whin ok...So be respectfull and tell your opinion not insult people...
Like i said everyone can share their opinion. But in my perspective most of the threads are like this and like I said I'm addressing the ones who complain all the time and aren't happy with anything ''reoccurring forums users''. Maybe it's time to make one 1 thread about all your complaints and post there.
Because I'm kinda done with my recent tab being filled with complaints of others.
Then why come to the forums if you don't like what most people have to say. Because complaining about people complaining doesn't seem much better. In fact, it is worse.
This is maybe the third time I complained about others. So okay you got me there.
But I come to the forums to share my interest with others like me and i cant recall that I said that I don't like people posting
I just don't want my recent tab to fill up with complaints. I hope that is reasonable.Edited by RaXZon on April 19, 2016 12:54PMGamertag: RaXZonz
Server: Xbox one EU
All aboard the post train to whine city!
Population: too much....
(͠≖ ͜ʖ͠≖)0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »
Well.. they ARE going to take away the veteran system in the next expansion as far as i know.. it's a change that was in store for a long time so i can understand why they didn't scale stuff to vet 16 lvl... but anyway,it's just a matter of waiting and see how the new system will be and if things will change after that as far as this specific point goes.
i hope whatever they do, the gear i have on now isnt changed to the point i cant wear it, that will be the big dealbreaker for alot of people, how they handle all the vet level gear, cause if i cant wear my vr16 stuff, i might just leave and never look back, i worked hard to get it and i dont want it outlvel me because of some new progression system
Thats part of the game tho. New DLC means new gear etc to earn. You cant just make one set of armor and expect to wear it forever once you hit cap.
thats not what i mean, what i meant was the gear that i have on NOW i want access to
with the new progression system, i dont want my gear to be labeled a different level higher than what i am in whatever progression system takes its place
example, my gear is now vr16, and i can wear it,
it dont want it labeled cp 120, and de-equipped, and not able to use until i reach cp120
Gear will be fine. They will have cp tied to gear use, but the max is 160 champion points. They stated that if your not at the 160, they will give it to you because they don't want this problem you mentioned to occur. Not sure how it will be implemented, but bottom line is don't worry about not being able to wear your gear.
No the cap is 501 probably will be more once DB comes out. 160 is the new VR16 and they said everyone who has a VR16 will have a minimum of 160 cp once vet ranks are removed. Ya people would freak right out if all their gear suddenly fell offf so I dont blame you for worrying heh.
I know the cap for players is 501 with a possible increase coming. I was talking about the cp cap for gear. Gear accessebility is capped at 160.
I dont know they said all the new stuff with DB will still be capped at 160. Probably going to have to hit 200 possibly 250 for the new stuff Id think. The old stuff yes you are right. VR16 will be the same as 160 cp once that goes away.
They have not said anything about raising gear accessibility cap for new gear each new uodate. It just doesn't make sense to get rid of the vr grind just to replace it with a cp grind for gear. The whole reason people wanted the vet system gone, primarily, was the crazy grind. Although I do think it is possible they will do this down the road, I highly doubt we will see that in dB or even this year. Especially since they have moved to a casual player model this past year.
That "grind" is what the rest of us call character progression. There is always going to be new gear to get. New levels to attain. Its how a MMO works. While they may not do it every update I would bet the new stuff from DB wont be VR16 gear. That would be three times in a row without any kind of increase in the cap. I certainly hope they dont just slap together some more VR16 sets. We also need new crafting tiers etc those come with a cap increase as well.0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »NinjaApacHe wrote: »Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.
Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.
See it from this side - people who pvp, have done most of the stuff in the game already. They have bought pretty much all what they will buy already - ZOS made their money with them already and there is not much to gain from this group, because like we see on this forum, they burn through new content in a rush and then they complain again. They might not even buy the content but just sub for a month - so what is to be gained from them - 4 times 15$ per year. Whereas a casual gamer has most likely not bought all yet, but will over time and he will stay subscribed, while not being a drain on the servers and he will most likely not complain, because he will never discover that there are problems, because he is playing so slowly. This is the group from which they gain money in the future and that is why they cater the game for them. It is just like in real life business as well, where the target group are young and new people, who have nothing and need all - old people, who have all already, are not a target group anymore - and that is equivalent to pvp gamers - the money is made with them, not much to gain from them.
You know... The more and more I read from your posts, the more and more things slowly start to "click". Things that I have wondered begin to fall in place. @Fengrush has had a similar effect on me, and has caused me to truly pause for a moment and think about what is going on with ZO$. You know? He encourages deep thought, and gives it how it is. And now you. You appear to have the same effect. A person of logic and thought...
It's funny how the more I immerse myself in the forums, and community overall — the more I tend to slowly grasp the "big picture" being painted before my eyes...
It is just the reality of a business, and ZOS is a business. You can enjoy the game nevertheless, I just write that to show, that some expectations are not realistic - ZOS will never cater mostly to pvp or make this a main point of the game again. They might have done this at start, to attract people and they might have thought, well, we can make a lot of money with those, who do not know TES games yet. And this goal is achieved, not much to gain in this segment anymore. And now they can do, what the game should have been in the first place - an ever expanding oasis for TES fans - and for them the game has to feel like a single player game, where they can do nearly all alone. They can group up, but most will not do it, because they come from single player games and are used to play solo. They might group for a little while, but return to their old ways of gaming.
You make too much sense and understand things too clearly to be posting on these forums.
It's nice to see someone who "gets it." Most don't.
So lets take this to its most ruthles business conclusion:
1. Minimum wage costs - skeleton crew who cant accomplish anything of substance.
2. Minimum hardware maintenance and assets - strip hardware to the core and just let it barely crawl along to say it still works..sometimes. Then cover legal avenues to say the service is best effort and not guaranteed.
3. Maximum income - use marketing and sales tactics to keep the players paying as much as possible for as long as possible to go with the minimum outlay. Only say the minimum necessary and only when necessary.
ie. Maximise income minimise outlay. Whether the customer enjoys it or not is neither here nor there....as long as they keep paying or new people arrive.
Thats the bottom line from a cold ruthless business standpoint.
I do want to hope that this is not the reality at ZOS central.
I would like to think they are building a long term partnership with their playerbase base to ensure mutual long term happiness.
But that what the marketing dept are employed to make you believe, regardless of whether its actually true or not.
/shrugs. We'll see with DB.
@Rune_Relic , you say: "So lets take this to its most ruthles business conclusion:....." and then you sum it up.
First: I think what you describe is NOT a ruthless business conclusion..... It is NORMAL PRACTICE if you manage a product that has no future but still generates revenues and profit maximalisation is mainly done by cost cutting.
But imo this game has a great potential for a bright future for years to come with a further expanding of content and features.
In such a case profit maximalisation is achieved by a combination of increasing the scope, nurturing the existing customer base, increasing the customer base and keep an eye on cost efficiency & customer profile distribution.
It could ofc be that the management of ZOS does NOT believe that ESO has a great potential..... in which case they would wind down to squeeze out money.
But I guess and believe (not hope !) that ZOS, even seen by the cold eyes of the ruthless beancounters, see ESO as a nice pearl to have and worthwhile to invest & grow.... and continue to harvest for a long time to come.
I also believe that the operational people of ZOS love this game and are proud to work for such a fantastic game.
And as long as they get the resources.... THAT is what will count !!!
ofc you can never trust profi marketing guys..... marketing guys are never really attached to the actual business.... they live in a fluffy world.... they use trust as a tool only.... regardless whether a business is prospering or going downhill.
Being more visible in the "long term partnership for mutual long term happiness" is somewhere in the learning curve of ZOS, and I feel confident that they are working on being more present there. Spending some resources, in visibility and communication, to make us feel more comfortable, is not a waste. But again, what counts is the resources available for an enthusiast operational team !!!
And please bear with your "we'll see" a bit longer than just the DB DLC.
give it a bit more patience.
I guess ZOS needs till year end to have their ship in good order again
Nice to hear your thoughts.
Alas I find myself logging in for 15-30 minutes once a week.
On a good week.
You may know more than others or something about whats going on behind the scenes to give you such confidence.
But its not a confidence I share anymore.
I wont be around after DB, because with the best will in the world, I dont think they have the funding or the manpower to fix what needs fixing.
I also seriously question some of the shocking executive decisions with regard gameplay that I do not see changing at all.
When someone says there is no silver bullet, I also have to question that thinking and ask why they say that.
How can you know there is no silver bullet unless you know exactly what the problem is ?
Yet....they dont know what the problem is and are investigating all avenues.
Doesnt sound like anything but delaying tactics to me.
Par for the course and only strengthens my point of view.
But I wish them the best.
Many are happy with things the way they are.
Its good enough for many to stay.
In many ways its better than anything esle out there regardless.Edited by Rune_Relic on April 19, 2016 1:21PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited2 -
bloodenragedb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭if it works like that, then i withdraw my worry, but i reserve the right to have some anxiety about it till it actually happens0
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bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »
Well.. they ARE going to take away the veteran system in the next expansion as far as i know.. it's a change that was in store for a long time so i can understand why they didn't scale stuff to vet 16 lvl... but anyway,it's just a matter of waiting and see how the new system will be and if things will change after that as far as this specific point goes.
i hope whatever they do, the gear i have on now isnt changed to the point i cant wear it, that will be the big dealbreaker for alot of people, how they handle all the vet level gear, cause if i cant wear my vr16 stuff, i might just leave and never look back, i worked hard to get it and i dont want it outlvel me because of some new progression system
Thats part of the game tho. New DLC means new gear etc to earn. You cant just make one set of armor and expect to wear it forever once you hit cap.
thats not what i mean, what i meant was the gear that i have on NOW i want access to
with the new progression system, i dont want my gear to be labeled a different level higher than what i am in whatever progression system takes its place
example, my gear is now vr16, and i can wear it,
it dont want it labeled cp 120, and de-equipped, and not able to use until i reach cp120
Gear will be fine. They will have cp tied to gear use, but the max is 160 champion points. They stated that if your not at the 160, they will give it to you because they don't want this problem you mentioned to occur. Not sure how it will be implemented, but bottom line is don't worry about not being able to wear your gear.
No the cap is 501 probably will be more once DB comes out. 160 is the new VR16 and they said everyone who has a VR16 will have a minimum of 160 cp once vet ranks are removed. Ya people would freak right out if all their gear suddenly fell offf so I dont blame you for worrying heh.
I know the cap for players is 501 with a possible increase coming. I was talking about the cp cap for gear. Gear accessebility is capped at 160.
I dont know they said all the new stuff with DB will still be capped at 160. Probably going to have to hit 200 possibly 250 for the new stuff Id think. The old stuff yes you are right. VR16 will be the same as 160 cp once that goes away.
They have not said anything about raising gear accessibility cap for new gear each new uodate. It just doesn't make sense to get rid of the vr grind just to replace it with a cp grind for gear. The whole reason people wanted the vet system gone, primarily, was the crazy grind. Although I do think it is possible they will do this down the road, I highly doubt we will see that in dB or even this year. Especially since they have moved to a casual player model this past year.
That "grind" is what the rest of us call character progression. There is always going to be new gear to get. New levels to attain. Its how a MMO works. While they may not do it every update I would bet the new stuff from DB wont be VR16 gear. That would be three times in a row without any kind of increase in the cap. I certainly hope they dont just slap together some more VR16 sets. We also need new crafting tiers etc those come with a cap increase as well.
That "grind" is what prompted the change. Character progression is champion points to make your too stronger. Imo, locking gear behind walls is not "character progression." it is simply the vr grind recharacterized to a cp grind. Being that the grind was a primary driving force behind the change, simply throwing some new skin on the grind does not alleviate one of the primary driving forces behind the change.2 -
Blackbird71✭✭✭YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »I mean which AAA MMO game will sell imbalance, buggy and laggy experience to its customers.....
Um, how about every AAA MMO ever? Seriously, if you spend any kind of time on the forums for any MMO, you will hear the exact same complaints every time. Swap "ESO" for any other major MMO title and the threads are always the same. It's kind of sad when you think about it, but this is the status quo for MMOs at this time (and in my experience, it has been ever since I picked up a copy of Asheron's Call). I have never seen an MMO that got balance right, or that was bug or lag free.
So if you don't enjoy the gameplay of ESO and are looking for a different MMO experience, then by all means try something else more suited to your tastes. But if you are leaving it in search of some mythical MMO that somehow has none of these problems, then I'll say right now that MMOs are probably not for you, as no such game has ever existed.
"Grass is greener", and all that...4 -
Solid_Metal✭✭✭✭✭i think not, as far as i see it, ESO actually grow lot more than ever, i see lot of new player ( meant really new players, not some toons) running around, asking, and doing stuff on the starter zone
as of right now, the content in ESO itself already more than enough to supply them.
as for DLC, so far the only DLC that dissapointing in ESO is TG DLC, IMHO absolutely waste of money, i love the thievery, the heist, full of adorable NPC, but thats it really....they do indeed delivered what they promise, but for the price tag?, absolutely not worth it EXCEPT you are deeply into thievery
i honestly looking forward for DB DLC, i hope they will step up their game and make the DLC as big/as par with Orsinium DLC which IMHO one of the best DLC so far
what if they screw up with DB DLC?, well i still will be positive and keep telling myself that guild based DLC is a curse for zenimax to develop for, next DLC is hope they take on another area etc like what orsinium and IC does"i will walk through the fog, as i welcome death"0 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »While I don't believe ESO is as huge a success as I'd have liked it to be and that I feel ZOS is slowly failing their audience as time goes on, I don't think DB will be the nail in the coffin should it prove to be successful or not. For me, it is how well they balance everything out in the end that will determine whether or not I officially quit the game.
Balance of the game is just terrible. 2h is practically required for PvP if you're stamina, High Elf is the hands down greatest race for magic with the lone exception being Dunmer DKs in terms of DPS, all points into 1 stat for optimal DPS. It's all so stupid and has really dulled my enjoyment of the game over the course of time.
I did enjoy the TG and it gave me some degree of hope that ZOS would improve but not enough to sway my opinion that they are slowly killing what could have been an amazing game
And what is so surprising that Altmer is the perfect race for magic?- It always was this way in all of the TES games. It was to be expected.
It's not about being the perfect race for magic, it's about being the hands down best race for magic period. Other than Dunmer DK, All magic based characters are gimped if it is not a High Elf and that is terrible for a balance perspective. Breton is the closest in terms of being good magic chararcters however, you lose both damage and better sustain going Breton over Altmer because Altmers will always do more elemental damage as well as having 9% regen vs the Bretons laughable 4% cost reduction. The only time a Breton might be better than an Altmer is if they are a magic tank build and even that is questionable at best.
We have 3 magic races in the game but apart from 1 lone exception, playing anything but an Altmer gimps you and I don't feel that is balanced at all.
This is where PvP collides with role play. Balance. Classes and races are there to create an imbalance in the first place. If that is not wanted, why have classes and races in the first place. Altmer were always those with the highest talent for magic. Like other races are best suited for normal combat. If there is no variety, but balance, then races and classes are pretty pointless. But this is Elder Scrolls, those races are important and they should be different in their talents and they are. The request for balance is what is weird in a role playing game - and this is an online RPG, like Mr. Firor stated in an interview lately.
I just could not help to comment on this unless you bought all any race any alliance naturally you're going to have to choose the faction you want because of the racial passives... Racial passives believe it or not do play a big role in balance, not limited to class, or class line skills, but population imbalances. This in return amplifies classes imbalances.Edited by AddictionX on April 19, 2016 6:18PM0 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DB will be the last chance until Murkmire is the last chance then Clockwork City will be the last last chance followed by the seriously last chance to be named Soon(TM).I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4502 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I dont think the gold coast is as big as orsinium. Id bet another DLC the size of the TG DLC.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »While I don't believe ESO is as huge a success as I'd have liked it to be and that I feel ZOS is slowly failing their audience as time goes on, I don't think DB will be the nail in the coffin should it prove to be successful or not. For me, it is how well they balance everything out in the end that will determine whether or not I officially quit the game.
Balance of the game is just terrible. 2h is practically required for PvP if you're stamina, High Elf is the hands down greatest race for magic with the lone exception being Dunmer DKs in terms of DPS, all points into 1 stat for optimal DPS. It's all so stupid and has really dulled my enjoyment of the game over the course of time.
I did enjoy the TG and it gave me some degree of hope that ZOS would improve but not enough to sway my opinion that they are slowly killing what could have been an amazing game
And what is so surprising that Altmer is the perfect race for magic?- It always was this way in all of the TES games. It was to be expected.
It's not about being the perfect race for magic, it's about being the hands down best race for magic period. Other than Dunmer DK, All magic based characters are gimped if it is not a High Elf and that is terrible for a balance perspective. Breton is the closest in terms of being good magic chararcters however, you lose both damage and better sustain going Breton over Altmer because Altmers will always do more elemental damage as well as having 9% regen vs the Bretons laughable 4% cost reduction. The only time a Breton might be better than an Altmer is if they are a magic tank build and even that is questionable at best.
We have 3 magic races in the game but apart from 1 lone exception, playing anything but an Altmer gimps you and I don't feel that is balanced at all.
This is where PvP collides with role play. Balance. Classes and races are there to create an imbalance in the first place. If that is not wanted, why have classes and races in the first place. Altmer were always those with the highest talent for magic. Like other races are best suited for normal combat. If there is no variety, but balance, then races and classes are pretty pointless. But this is Elder Scrolls, those races are important and they should be different in their talents and they are. The request for balance is what is weird in a role playing game - and this is an online RPG, like Mr. Firor stated in an interview lately.
I just could not help to comment on this unless you bought all any race any alliance naturally you're going to have to choose the faction you want because of the racial passives... Racial passives believe it or not do play a big role in balance, not limited to class, or class line skills, but population imbalances. This in return amplifies classes imbalances.
Balance should not be that all are basically the same with similar abilities just other names for those skills. This is not interesting to play in an RPG - it might be that what FPS player want, because they prefer to use player skills over character skills - but that is what role play is about. To have interesting character traits and live with imbalances, strengths and weaknesses of a character and make the best out of it. That is why there are different races and different skill sets - they should not be similar to each other, but diverse and unique to the races and classes, do different things, not all with more or less the same tool set, just with different names and different animations. The request for balance takes the fun out of an RPG.4 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭AddictionX wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »While I don't believe ESO is as huge a success as I'd have liked it to be and that I feel ZOS is slowly failing their audience as time goes on, I don't think DB will be the nail in the coffin should it prove to be successful or not. For me, it is how well they balance everything out in the end that will determine whether or not I officially quit the game.
Balance of the game is just terrible. 2h is practically required for PvP if you're stamina, High Elf is the hands down greatest race for magic with the lone exception being Dunmer DKs in terms of DPS, all points into 1 stat for optimal DPS. It's all so stupid and has really dulled my enjoyment of the game over the course of time.
I did enjoy the TG and it gave me some degree of hope that ZOS would improve but not enough to sway my opinion that they are slowly killing what could have been an amazing game
And what is so surprising that Altmer is the perfect race for magic?- It always was this way in all of the TES games. It was to be expected.
It's not about being the perfect race for magic, it's about being the hands down best race for magic period. Other than Dunmer DK, All magic based characters are gimped if it is not a High Elf and that is terrible for a balance perspective. Breton is the closest in terms of being good magic chararcters however, you lose both damage and better sustain going Breton over Altmer because Altmers will always do more elemental damage as well as having 9% regen vs the Bretons laughable 4% cost reduction. The only time a Breton might be better than an Altmer is if they are a magic tank build and even that is questionable at best.
We have 3 magic races in the game but apart from 1 lone exception, playing anything but an Altmer gimps you and I don't feel that is balanced at all.
This is where PvP collides with role play. Balance. Classes and races are there to create an imbalance in the first place. If that is not wanted, why have classes and races in the first place. Altmer were always those with the highest talent for magic. Like other races are best suited for normal combat. If there is no variety, but balance, then races and classes are pretty pointless. But this is Elder Scrolls, those races are important and they should be different in their talents and they are. The request for balance is what is weird in a role playing game - and this is an online RPG, like Mr. Firor stated in an interview lately.
I just could not help to comment on this unless you bought all any race any alliance naturally you're going to have to choose the faction you want because of the racial passives... Racial passives believe it or not do play a big role in balance, not limited to class, or class line skills, but population imbalances. This in return amplifies classes imbalances.
Balance should not be that all are basically the same with similar abilities just other names for those skills. This is not interesting to play in an RPG - it might be that what FPS player want, because they prefer to use player skills over character skills - but that is what role play is about. To have interesting character traits and live with imbalances, strengths and weaknesses of a character and make the best out of it. That is why there are different races and different skill sets - they should not be similar to each other, but diverse and unique to the races and classes, do different things, not all with more or less the same tool set, just with different names and different animations. The request for balance takes the fun out of an RPG.
+1"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU1 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just for parity:
Let's all keep in mind that regardless of whether or not;
- you despise ESO,
- are looking at every DLC as ESO's "last chance",
- are hoping every DLC will "save" ESO,
- are pretty happy with ESO but realize it could use improvements,
- or are pretty happy with the game, its products/DLC, and the state the game is in with a few tweaks here and there
All of us on the Forums are a fraction of a percentage of the people who play the game. How many copies are sold per week/month/year, how many people log-in per day/week/month/year, how many accounts are activated/deactivated per day/week/month, how many subscriptions are started/cancelled... only Zenimax has these numbers. These metrics are all behind the scenes, and unless Zenimax or Bethesda Softworks deign it necessary to share, the truth of those metrics are all behind the scenes.
We can tell some things about the game by simple observation. The PvE areas are thriving. The more popular "hub cities" in each zone are constantly packed with people, the Group Events are populated (even if there's trouble with the Group Finder, the dungeons themselves are most always packed with players from my experience), and while the edges of the wilderness are sparsely populated, its rare to go five minutes without seeing someone else (or many someone elses') running across the landscape.
Simple deduction says that the game is pretty heavily populated, still, and the population is growing. Even with all of the issues of PvP, I've never seen one of the servers become a "ghost town" as the detractors want to make it seem. While the population wheel might lean heavily to one Alliance or the other, when you go into said server, the population is anything but low.
So while we can argue all day the points for or against ESO's "ominously and rapidly approaching demise" (which has been coming for two years...), we only have what we see from our singular perspective when we log in each day/night. Zenimax is the only one who sees the total population situation.
And if the posts that they make, the Streams that they show, and the messages that they send out, are anything to judge by, they aren't worried a bit.
And that leads me to believe that this game is in a healthy position, despite the people who cry about "last chances", "everyone will leave!!!", or "this DLC is either perfect or the game turns to dust and plague!!!".
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!1 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »While I don't believe ESO is as huge a success as I'd have liked it to be and that I feel ZOS is slowly failing their audience as time goes on, I don't think DB will be the nail in the coffin should it prove to be successful or not. For me, it is how well they balance everything out in the end that will determine whether or not I officially quit the game.
Balance of the game is just terrible. 2h is practically required for PvP if you're stamina, High Elf is the hands down greatest race for magic with the lone exception being Dunmer DKs in terms of DPS, all points into 1 stat for optimal DPS. It's all so stupid and has really dulled my enjoyment of the game over the course of time.
I did enjoy the TG and it gave me some degree of hope that ZOS would improve but not enough to sway my opinion that they are slowly killing what could have been an amazing game
And what is so surprising that Altmer is the perfect race for magic?- It always was this way in all of the TES games. It was to be expected.
It's not about being the perfect race for magic, it's about being the hands down best race for magic period. Other than Dunmer DK, All magic based characters are gimped if it is not a High Elf and that is terrible for a balance perspective. Breton is the closest in terms of being good magic chararcters however, you lose both damage and better sustain going Breton over Altmer because Altmers will always do more elemental damage as well as having 9% regen vs the Bretons laughable 4% cost reduction. The only time a Breton might be better than an Altmer is if they are a magic tank build and even that is questionable at best.
We have 3 magic races in the game but apart from 1 lone exception, playing anything but an Altmer gimps you and I don't feel that is balanced at all.
This is where PvP collides with role play. Balance. Classes and races are there to create an imbalance in the first place. If that is not wanted, why have classes and races in the first place. Altmer were always those with the highest talent for magic. Like other races are best suited for normal combat. If there is no variety, but balance, then races and classes are pretty pointless. But this is Elder Scrolls, those races are important and they should be different in their talents and they are. The request for balance is what is weird in a role playing game - and this is an online RPG, like Mr. Firor stated in an interview lately.
I just could not help to comment on this unless you bought all any race any alliance naturally you're going to have to choose the faction you want because of the racial passives... Racial passives believe it or not do play a big role in balance, not limited to class, or class line skills, but population imbalances. This in return amplifies classes imbalances.
Balance should not be that all are basically the same with similar abilities just other names for those skills. This is not interesting to play in an RPG - it might be that what FPS player want, because they prefer to use player skills over character skills - but that is what role play is about. To have interesting character traits and live with imbalances, strengths and weaknesses of a character and make the best out of it. That is why there are different races and different skill sets - they should not be similar to each other, but diverse and unique to the races and classes, do different things, not all with more or less the same tool set, just with different names and different animations. The request for balance takes the fun out of an RPG.
What I am understanding from your response is that you're mistaking balance for homogenization of races(maybe classes and skills?).
What you claim to be not interesting to play in a RPG may perhaps be true to some of us.... but at the very same time.... to some of us ......balance does kinda matter for it to be interesting game in the first place. Then you tell me something about Role playing.... but I do not see where I mentioned role playing at all. So that needs clarification.
I think you're confusing Imbalances with class "perks" as they should be. An example of perks would be how an argonian can swim 50 percent faster. That has no real numerical sensible value that could help with the over all platform of your character to achieve an unfair edge because it needs no counter towards it. I realize thats a horrible explaination but race should not be all-in-one super character for this or that(especially since some of the passives do not really make sense or considered weak compared to others of the same nature), while it should have advantages that others do not they must also lack something powerful as well. Say this race has Maximum "stat" then another race should have the "maximum" cost reduction or another have the "maximum regeneration" but not all-in-one while the other races do not. If that is the case those "stats" should be next to nothing at all where people can still enjoy more or less equal player base across 3 factions. Currently race gives a very noticeable difference toward the building of any character and anyone who is not playing said race is already at a disadvantage in numerical terms... not to mention it could actually affect your end game just because you wanted to be "said" race.
Strengths and weaknesses as you put it does not constitute how one race can be the best choice to be top tier of everything for magicka or stamina. It could be "better" suited for the thought out role, but not hands down the best. That does not sound right.
Do not confuse balance with homogenization of the races. Thats using ambiguity of the term and as you very well know intrinsically misleading.
Edited by AddictionX on April 19, 2016 7:48PM1 -
Lord_Wrath✭✭✭✭✭Personally im giving it until the end of the year to see performance improvements. I love this game but 50% of my deaths are because weapon swap/skills delay. Timing and precision is everything combat-wise in this game.
TG struck no desire in me. The map is small and it just felt like more quest mark chasing for miniscule rewards from cheesy AI. I still have much to complete though.
DB is the last top desired dlc as a beloved experience in TES games, im not saying make it a skyrim lol but this needs to pack a major punch. If this is another small map with little to offer my characters abilities, i think a lot of players like myself will see little merit in future dlcs and additions to tamriel as an immersive experience, things to make you revisit the zones.
With dlc i want more abilities, useful skills and passives, additions to cities (kind of like the undaunted) and of course the usual gear.
I would rather see a polishing update between dlc as well. No sense in adding a new dlc with fixes for the previous dlc when new bugs can occure.1300+ CP | Lørd Wrath | - Sorcerer - Palatine - Grand Master Crafter - 30000 Achievement Points
Launch Player - PC - NA - EP0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »While I don't believe ESO is as huge a success as I'd have liked it to be and that I feel ZOS is slowly failing their audience as time goes on, I don't think DB will be the nail in the coffin should it prove to be successful or not. For me, it is how well they balance everything out in the end that will determine whether or not I officially quit the game.
Balance of the game is just terrible. 2h is practically required for PvP if you're stamina, High Elf is the hands down greatest race for magic with the lone exception being Dunmer DKs in terms of DPS, all points into 1 stat for optimal DPS. It's all so stupid and has really dulled my enjoyment of the game over the course of time.
I did enjoy the TG and it gave me some degree of hope that ZOS would improve but not enough to sway my opinion that they are slowly killing what could have been an amazing game
And what is so surprising that Altmer is the perfect race for magic?- It always was this way in all of the TES games. It was to be expected.
It's not about being the perfect race for magic, it's about being the hands down best race for magic period. Other than Dunmer DK, All magic based characters are gimped if it is not a High Elf and that is terrible for a balance perspective. Breton is the closest in terms of being good magic chararcters however, you lose both damage and better sustain going Breton over Altmer because Altmers will always do more elemental damage as well as having 9% regen vs the Bretons laughable 4% cost reduction. The only time a Breton might be better than an Altmer is if they are a magic tank build and even that is questionable at best.
We have 3 magic races in the game but apart from 1 lone exception, playing anything but an Altmer gimps you and I don't feel that is balanced at all.
This is where PvP collides with role play. Balance. Classes and races are there to create an imbalance in the first place. If that is not wanted, why have classes and races in the first place. Altmer were always those with the highest talent for magic. Like other races are best suited for normal combat. If there is no variety, but balance, then races and classes are pretty pointless. But this is Elder Scrolls, those races are important and they should be different in their talents and they are. The request for balance is what is weird in a role playing game - and this is an online RPG, like Mr. Firor stated in an interview lately.
I just could not help to comment on this unless you bought all any race any alliance naturally you're going to have to choose the faction you want because of the racial passives... Racial passives believe it or not do play a big role in balance, not limited to class, or class line skills, but population imbalances. This in return amplifies classes imbalances.
Balance should not be that all are basically the same with similar abilities just other names for those skills. This is not interesting to play in an RPG - it might be that what FPS player want, because they prefer to use player skills over character skills - but that is what role play is about. To have interesting character traits and live with imbalances, strengths and weaknesses of a character and make the best out of it. That is why there are different races and different skill sets - they should not be similar to each other, but diverse and unique to the races and classes, do different things, not all with more or less the same tool set, just with different names and different animations. The request for balance takes the fun out of an RPG.
What I am understanding from your response is that you're mistaking balance for homogenization of races(maybe classes and skills?).
What you claim to be not interesting to play in a RPG may perhaps be true to some of us.... but at the very same time.... to some of us ......balance does kinda matter for it to be interesting game in the first place. Then you tell me something about Role playing.... but I do not see where I mentioned role playing at all. So that needs clarification.
I think you're confusing Imbalances with class "perks" as they should be. An example of perks would be how an argonian can swim 50 percent faster. That has no real numerical sensible value that could help with the over all platform of your character to achieve an unfair edge because it needs no counter towards it. I realize thats a horrible explaination but race should not be all-in-one super character for this or that(especially since some of the passives do not really make sense or considered weak compared to others of the same nature), while it should have advantages that others do not they must also lack something powerful as well. Say this race has Maximum "stat" then another race should have the "maximum" cost reduction or another have the "maximum regeneration" but not all-in-one while the other races do not. If that is the case those "stats" should be next to nothing at all where people can still enjoy more or less equal player base across 3 factions. Currently race gives a very noticeable difference toward the building of any character and anyone who is not playing said race is already at a disadvantage in numerical terms... not to mention it could actually affect your end game just because you wanted to be "said" race.
Strengths and weaknesses as you put it does not constitute how one race can be the best choice to be top tier of everything for magicka or stamina. It could be "better" suited for the thought out role, but not hands down the best. That does not sound right.
Do not confuse balance with homogenization of the races. Thats using ambiguity of the term and as you very well know intrinsically misleading.
I guess I cannot make you understand if you think in terms of "top tier" and see this as a goal. This is not the goal, a hero is not that guy, who has the best gear and the best skill sets and the best stats. If that guy wins, that was to be expected, that is not a heroic act at all. A hero is someone, who is not the best and has not the best gear and not the best stats, but has a heart and courage and risks something and achieves it against all odds - that is a hero - a normal guy with courage. For that it does not take balance, for that it takes the qualities of a hero, who can make it happen against all odds even he is otherwise just mediocre. Real heros are normal people, who had the courage to do the right thing at the right moment against all odds.
This is why I do not see that the game has to be balanced, the game needs real heroes, not those who win because they are top tier, where it is to be expected that they win. That is no achievement, but just to be expected.Edited by Lysette on April 19, 2016 9:20PM0 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »While I don't believe ESO is as huge a success as I'd have liked it to be and that I feel ZOS is slowly failing their audience as time goes on, I don't think DB will be the nail in the coffin should it prove to be successful or not. For me, it is how well they balance everything out in the end that will determine whether or not I officially quit the game.
Balance of the game is just terrible. 2h is practically required for PvP if you're stamina, High Elf is the hands down greatest race for magic with the lone exception being Dunmer DKs in terms of DPS, all points into 1 stat for optimal DPS. It's all so stupid and has really dulled my enjoyment of the game over the course of time.
I did enjoy the TG and it gave me some degree of hope that ZOS would improve but not enough to sway my opinion that they are slowly killing what could have been an amazing game
And what is so surprising that Altmer is the perfect race for magic?- It always was this way in all of the TES games. It was to be expected.
It's not about being the perfect race for magic, it's about being the hands down best race for magic period. Other than Dunmer DK, All magic based characters are gimped if it is not a High Elf and that is terrible for a balance perspective. Breton is the closest in terms of being good magic chararcters however, you lose both damage and better sustain going Breton over Altmer because Altmers will always do more elemental damage as well as having 9% regen vs the Bretons laughable 4% cost reduction. The only time a Breton might be better than an Altmer is if they are a magic tank build and even that is questionable at best.
We have 3 magic races in the game but apart from 1 lone exception, playing anything but an Altmer gimps you and I don't feel that is balanced at all.
This is where PvP collides with role play. Balance. Classes and races are there to create an imbalance in the first place. If that is not wanted, why have classes and races in the first place. Altmer were always those with the highest talent for magic. Like other races are best suited for normal combat. If there is no variety, but balance, then races and classes are pretty pointless. But this is Elder Scrolls, those races are important and they should be different in their talents and they are. The request for balance is what is weird in a role playing game - and this is an online RPG, like Mr. Firor stated in an interview lately.
I just could not help to comment on this unless you bought all any race any alliance naturally you're going to have to choose the faction you want because of the racial passives... Racial passives believe it or not do play a big role in balance, not limited to class, or class line skills, but population imbalances. This in return amplifies classes imbalances.
Balance should not be that all are basically the same with similar abilities just other names for those skills. This is not interesting to play in an RPG - it might be that what FPS player want, because they prefer to use player skills over character skills - but that is what role play is about. To have interesting character traits and live with imbalances, strengths and weaknesses of a character and make the best out of it. That is why there are different races and different skill sets - they should not be similar to each other, but diverse and unique to the races and classes, do different things, not all with more or less the same tool set, just with different names and different animations. The request for balance takes the fun out of an RPG.
What I am understanding from your response is that you're mistaking balance for homogenization of races(maybe classes and skills?).
What you claim to be not interesting to play in a RPG may perhaps be true to some of us.... but at the very same time.... to some of us ......balance does kinda matter for it to be interesting game in the first place. Then you tell me something about Role playing.... but I do not see where I mentioned role playing at all. So that needs clarification.
I think you're confusing Imbalances with class "perks" as they should be. An example of perks would be how an argonian can swim 50 percent faster. That has no real numerical sensible value that could help with the over all platform of your character to achieve an unfair edge because it needs no counter towards it. I realize thats a horrible explaination but race should not be all-in-one super character for this or that(especially since some of the passives do not really make sense or considered weak compared to others of the same nature), while it should have advantages that others do not they must also lack something powerful as well. Say this race has Maximum "stat" then another race should have the "maximum" cost reduction or another have the "maximum regeneration" but not all-in-one while the other races do not. If that is the case those "stats" should be next to nothing at all where people can still enjoy more or less equal player base across 3 factions. Currently race gives a very noticeable difference toward the building of any character and anyone who is not playing said race is already at a disadvantage in numerical terms... not to mention it could actually affect your end game just because you wanted to be "said" race.
Strengths and weaknesses as you put it does not constitute how one race can be the best choice to be top tier of everything for magicka or stamina. It could be "better" suited for the thought out role, but not hands down the best. That does not sound right.
Do not confuse balance with homogenization of the races. Thats using ambiguity of the term and as you very well know intrinsically misleading.
I guess I cannot make you understand if you think in terms of "top tier" and see this as a goal. This is not the goal, a hero is not that guy, who has the best gear and the best skill sets and the best stats. If that guy wins, that was to be expected, that is not a heroic act at all. A hero is someone, who is not the best and has not the best gear and not the best stats, but has a heart and courage and risks something and achieves it against all odds - that is a hero - a normal guy with courage. For that it does not take balance, for that it takes the qualities of a hero, who can make it happen against all odds even he is otherwise just mediocre. Real heros are normal people, who had the courage to do the right thing at the right moment against all odds.
This is why I do not see that the game has to be balanced, the game needs real heroes, not those who win because they are top tier, where it is to be expected that they win. That is no achievement, but just to be expected.
Hero ... some one.. some where is singing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koJlIGDImiU he can be your hero. He even whispers it in the beginning.
Anyway(sorry thats what came to my mind u.u) .... I'm just wondering what does hero in the romantic and emotional sense as you describe it have anything to do with numerical values, unfair advantages, and balance. "I guess" if you cannot present it why its ok for some classes to have "bad" passives and others "good" passives ...you'll appeal to pathos.
You tell me that "top tier" is not the goal however, that could be restated as "end game" as you renamed my use of the word balance. I am sure its well known that before a game releases like an mmo balance is the core design for its basis otherwise by your very same rationalization we should all be "david" and the selected few should be "goliath"(we're the "hero" who always wins because it is to be expected). For the record peoples "goals" differentiate in general from person to person but this specific "goal" as you renamed it is known as "balance" in an mmo and not any particular to any singular dude.
You realize I could pose the same rationale you presented for murder being natural and that natural is good (just like idk some healthy vegie because its "natural").... Many 'natural' things are also considered 'good', and this can bias our thinking; but naturalness itself doesn't make something good or bad. For instance murder could be seen as very natural, but that doesn't mean it's good or justifiable. That's a red herring....
Also I still need clarification on where you previously randomly mention role playing and how it relates to my post.
I mean we are talking about balance i thought and not what a hero is to you.Edited by AddictionX on April 19, 2016 10:25PM0 -
FortheloveofKrist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Wrath wrote: »Personally im giving it until the end of the year to see performance improvements. I love this game but 50% of my deaths are because weapon swap/skills delay.
100% of my deaths are due to lag or latency issues. 100%. If it weren't for lag, I would never die. Ever. 0%.
Damn lag.
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SantieClaws wrote: »This one is less concerned about what the DB may or may not contain as this one is concerned about how quiet it is round here.
ESO Live appears to have been put on the back burner, there has been no news, no maintenance, no patching.
Santie does not like to recall such memories but the last time there was such a long quiet spell was right before the big change - you know what khajiit refers to ...
This one recalls it oh so clearly because she saw a tweet from another gaming site and was the one to post here first that what we had all so long speculated on had come to pass.
Khajiit wonders if there is something else in the bag that we do not yet expect.
If it is quiet because everyone has the holiday then that is fine. Khajiit likes holidays.
Khajiit also likes a little news also too and her whiskers are starting to tingle a little in an edgy sort of way at the lack of it.
Yours with paws
Santie Claws
There have been plenty of posts as shown on Dev Tracker, and the team is headed to PAX East 2016 this coming weekend, full details on the website, for which there is doubtless a lot of preparation involved and when any announcements of future content etc would be most likely to be made.
As for "no maintenance, no patching", they've been following the usual pattern and it's not unusual to have odd weeks like this week when there's no scheduled downtime for the PC/Mac version (although there is for consoles). If you check out the patch notes section of the forum there has been plenty of activity in March and April across the platforms.
I'm not so much trying to defend them from the criticism and uncertainly expressed, as trying to understand where that criticism and uncertainty comes from. It seems to be based pretty much on a missing ESO Live in the run up to a major Expo, which I would have thought was perfectly understandable although it goes without saying that they could very easily have made an announcement to that effect!Edited by Tandor on April 19, 2016 11:14PM0