15k actual sustain is enough for anything

What do I mean by "actual sustain" you ask?

Basically, when people talk about 20-30k style DPS, they are normally in super optimized groups that kill the bosses so quickly that their DPS for that encounter is heavily boosted by an initial ult drop, or accounting in initial burst damage much higher than their actual sustain. In fact, I have been in groups that dropped a 2 million health boss so fast the initial standard dropped by the tank at the start was still ticking (under 20 seconds), and then people exclaimed they had done 30k+ DPS which is total BS and would not be true whatsoever against a boss with 10 million health. Essentially, they were seeing the groups burst damage (which while impressive, wasnt totally indicative of what that group would do over a longer period of time)

DPS usually starts high, and then slowly drops until it levels off at your real sustained damage. typically this takes a full minute or more to realize. It will then spike up a bit at the end if you have an execute, but not by as much as you think. (Think of an opening rotation that includes an empowered meteor doing 20k damage + the dot, that wont be there for long, but it sure looks amazing at first, now if you could just get the boss down between the four of you before that meteor spike gets diluted by your real damage output.....)

Best test of your real DPS? Take a Tank/Healer (could just be one guy, really), into Spindle Vet with just you on your damage dealer, and see how quickly you can solo down BloodSpawn. The tank just holds aggro (and also throws heals) so you can focus on burning it. He has enough health that it SHOULD take you over a minute to burn him down, even with exceptional damage output. This way, youre not relying on group speed boosting to get inflated numbers.

It is extremely rare for anyone to take down this NPC in under 60 seconds (approx 25k DPS). If you can do so in 2 minutes or less (approx 12.5k DPS), you have plenty of DPS for anything.

Overload sorcs need not apply, if you have 1000 ultimate saved up, you can burn for 30k DPS just by mashing lights with entropies (for empower) proc frags and curses weaved in. So their sustain is pretty much dependent on how much ult they built up before the encounter.


Also, keep in mind that if your DPS figure has a +1 or +2 or any plus number after it (on FTC), then you hit multiple targets, and that skewed your DPS readout, and is not accurate.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Basically, when people talk about 20-30k style DPS, they are normally in super optimized groups that kill the bosses so quickly that their DPS for that encounter is heavily boosted by an initial ult drop, or accounting in initial burst damage much higher than their actual sustain. In fact, I have been in groups that dropped a 2 million health boss so fast the initial standard dropped by the tank at the start was still ticking (under 20 seconds), and then people exclaimed they had done 30k+ DPS which is total BS and would not be true whatsoever against a boss with 10 million health. .

This is not truth. There are parses from the new trial lasting several minutes, and some people actually pull 30+k during these fights.
Also, ftc has an option to post only single target results.

And those folks are extremely few and far between, and should never be used as examples of what is "enough" for a four man dungeon.

Moreover, outliers never make good examples full stop, since the norm is always much lower. 20k is much more realistic, 30k is getting into "ive been practicing for 2 years, with perfect timing rotations and BiS gear, with a group that runs full bore optimized at all times synergizing me higher than id be without them" territory.

I dont dispute you, like I said "normally." There are a few exceptions, sure, always are, but 30k+ is territory many claim but cannot actually deliver.

Also, single target option? Ill look into this, probably something new i never looked into

Rylana wrote: »

Moreover, outliers never make good examples full stop, since the norm is always much lower. 20k is much more realistic, 30k is getting into "ive been practicing for 2 years, with perfect timing rotations and BiS gear, with a group that runs full bore optimized at all times synergizing me higher than id be without them" territory.

I dont dispute you, like I said "normally." There are a few exceptions, sure, always are, but 30k+ is territory many claim but cannot actually deliver.

I can take Bloodspawn out on my Magicka Templar in 61 seconds without buffs (25.5k) and in 52 seconds (30k) with Horn\Combat Prayer (no Spell Cure) that means in a normal trial encounter I should pull 30k+ wich is pretty good but also standard for endgame players.

I've seen parses of TOP DPS guys pulling 36, 37 and even 40k in trial encounters.

If you're geared correctly you should pull at least 20k imho.

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

Just a heads up. Acid Spray is better than Bombard for dps (especially in group play), but Bombard is better for solo play cause it roots everything (that doesn't fly).

And Lethal Arrow seems way better than Focused Aim, because it adds a poison DOT. Focused Aim's hit from farther away is good for PVP, but not as useful in PVE, especially in dungeons where this isn't much range to work with. And the damage to armor is usually done by the tank with Pierce Armor.

I use 5 piece Hundings Rage, 3 Piece Night Mothers, 1 Molag Kena and 3 Endurance (Agility was too expensive for the very little difference in stats). My critical is over 50% with bow (69% with dual daggers), so not sure if shadowy disguise is really as useful, since it takes away time you could be using an attack.

I wouldnt say lethal arrow is "way" better than focused aim bc your not taking into account the major fracture debuff from focused aim which will make all physical attacks (not just your own) hit harder.
And agility set does more for your dps than you probably think. ~180 weapon damage + 1400 stam > 300 weapon damage (which is the 5pc bonus from hundings rage).

Curtdogg47 wrote: »

I am VR16 Stamblade with a bow and 2H. I have only done 2 group dungeons.

And so far I like using caltrops and then weaving bombard, light attack, light attack, bombard, shadow cloak and then focused aim. Reapply caltrops again and repeat the sequence.

Thanks to the new combat text on Xbox. My bombard seems to deal between 2K-8K damage. Caltrops deal 800 to 1.5K damage. Light attacks 3K to 7K damage and focused aim deals 10K to 25K damage.

I am constantly using siphoning attacks to keep stamina up, and shadowy cloak to up critical chance. Vigor as self and group heal. Was also thinking of adding arrow barrage. So my attacks would go: Caltrops, Bombard, Arrow Barrage, Light Attack, Bombard, Light attack.

I am thinking as a DPS that if I can keep the mob in the caltrops and arrow barrage area while weaving in light and heavy attacks with a focused aim here and there the DPS should be pretty good and constant.

I'm just curious is this is decent plan or is there something better I can do?

On the console not sure how you can see your dps... for PUG`s 15k is ok no matter the VR rank as you can do 15k from VR1(scaled). Anything more makes it easier but its not needed as 15k gets you past dps checks.

That is for single target, for aoe depends, 30k-40k is a good number tho if stuff dies fast it doesn`t matter.

The trick is doing that dps on all the bosses and not just on the ones that stay still.

Also, some survivability never hurts like vigor/self healing to help the group out in difficult moments like trying to do gold and such.

And all that dps means nothing if you get hit by aoe`s and stuff that should not hit you and are avoidable so you die or drain the healer because he has to spam heal you.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Curtdogg47 wrote: »

I am VR16 Stamblade with a bow and 2H. I have only done 2 group dungeons.

And so far I like using caltrops and then weaving bombard, light attack, light attack, bombard, shadow cloak and then focused aim. Reapply caltrops again and repeat the sequence.

Thanks to the new combat text on Xbox. My bombard seems to deal between 2K-8K damage. Caltrops deal 800 to 1.5K damage. Light attacks 3K to 7K damage and focused aim deals 10K to 25K damage.

I am constantly using siphoning attacks to keep stamina up, and shadowy cloak to up critical chance. Vigor as self and group heal. Was also thinking of adding arrow barrage. So my attacks would go: Caltrops, Bombard, Arrow Barrage, Light Attack, Bombard, Light attack.

I am thinking as a DPS that if I can keep the mob in the caltrops and arrow barrage area while weaving in light and heavy attacks with a focused aim here and there the DPS should be pretty good and constant.

I'm just curious is this is decent plan or is there something better I can do?

I would take a look at the following guide:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-dps-guide/

Its a bit dated, but it has a lot of good info. The fundamental problem I see is that Bombard (or acid spray) are AoE abiliites. They just shouldnt be used in a boss fight unless there are a lot of adds on the screen. Bow Single Target DPS is not great at the moment, but it is going to center around snipe if you try to pull it off. Most stamina NBs trying to pull really good DPS are going to get their main damage from the DW bar, and use a bow as more of a buff support bar.

Also, shadow has no place in PVE. Every time you cast it, you are foregoing another skill. The extra crit is not worth it. Even on an imperial, my crit is north of 85% anyway on a stamblade.

Personally, I use a bow to keep up Posion injection, arrow barrage, Caltrops, Evil Hunter, and siphoning, but if all those are running, you want to be on your front bar using surprise attack for single target, Steel tornado for AoE, and killers blade to execute if boss is below 25% health. Steel Tornado is much better aoe than bombard. Only Time I use bombard is in PVP if I am running 2H/Bow and in a group that needs AoE. The snare is great against zergs.

What I am suggesting is a pretty established meta. By all means, play how you want and build for a bow. Just dont be surprised if you cant get your numbers where you want them. You can certainly clear all content with a bow build, you just wont pull as much DPS.

Thank you, for the reply. And thank you to everyone for there info as well. Lot of good tips to consider as I work my build over. Great discussion and I hope people will continue to add to it.