Do You Think "DARK BROTHERHOOD" is Last Chance of ZOS

Mettaricana · April 2016

Db fails can't say I'm stickin around... if I get another one sided balance of classes op ridiculously stupid armor sets and another 1-2 hour storyline. I'll pull the plug and not look back or go to bdo.

Ch4mpTW · April 2016

Lysette wrote: »

My reason why I do not like PvP in the way it is done in this and many other MMOs is, that it is pointless. You kill someone but he does not stay dead, he will be resurrected or is back a few minutes later. This is as exciting as rolling a barrel uphill and before you get there, it will roll down and you have to roll it up again - Sisyphus comes to mind here. They do not even loose something, they do not have to repair their stuff, and for what do they fight?- For pointless things which last minutes and has no impact on the game whatsoever. The new emperor, pointless thing, it is not even announced in the rest of the world. There is no other reason to fight than to make the life of others miserable. If I want to pvp, I go to EVE, where it has at least purpose and where is something to gain to conquer and keep it for a common purpose. In ESO this is just a pointless farce.

Honestly? You've just opened my eyes to a few things about PVP in this game, that I have never took the time to consider before... And I've been PVP'ing for about as long as I can remember... It seems I have much to think about whilst on my break from this game... Much to think about. Thank you for your post.

Mojmir · April 2016

Lysette wrote: »

My reason why I do not like PvP in the way it is done in this and many other MMOs is, that it is pointless. You kill someone but he does not stay dead, he will be resurrected or is back a few minutes later. This is as exciting as rolling a barrel uphill and before you get there, it will roll down and you have to roll it up again - Sisyphus comes to mind here. They do not even loose something, they do not have to repair their stuff, and for what do they fight?- For pointless things which last minutes and has no impact on the game whatsoever. The new emperor, pointless thing, it is not even announced in the rest of the world. There is no other reason to fight than to make the life of others miserable. If I want to pvp, I go to EVE, where it has at least purpose and where is something to gain to conquer and keep it for a common purpose. In ESO this is just a pointless farce.

this is how i feel about role-playing,but to each his own

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Tyrac wrote: »

What isnt helping are the people who claim everything is fine and we should stop complaining, check your connection, hardware etc...

Agreed. There's so many "go-along-to-get-along people" on this forum, it's sad. In one of my polls which had shown over 60% of people wouldn't buy another ZO$ game, some people were honestly saying that the game hadn't experienced any lag of any kind. I've read from threads that claimed how the drop-rates were fine, VMA was balanced and not biased to any class, etc. And how most of the people complaining were just known complainers and whiners... It's pretty bad here in the forums, man...

But, to answer OP's question — yes. I definitely think that the Dark Brotherhood DLC is their last chance to numerous players. Including myself. I am currently on a break of sorts from this game, after experiencing absolutely horrendous drop-rates and other issues, and personally feel that if ZO$ doesn't start showing that they genuinely care about their consumers? I'm going to not only drop my ESO Plus sub, but probably delete my account entirely. I'm tired of giving these people a chance, and trying to give benefit of the doubt. And I've been playing TESO since beta days. So I'm really on my whit's end with these people.

To be fair the people happy with the game are normally playing it so the forums will be a bit slanted. Also how you word a poll has a lot to do with how people answer. Lastly they might vote on that but as soon as DB comes out so does the credit card. So they might say that but when push comes to shove they will buy.

BenLocoDete · April 2016

Being a buy-to-play game, I believe whether people like Dark Brotherhood or not, they can always quit and check every now and then to see if it entices them back.

Personally, I find the lack of dedicated attention to RP'ers, i.e. they abandoning the idea of a RolePlay server instantiation, players are not being able to participate in the justice system anymore, and barely anything related to RP'ing in the "planned features" hurts the replayability of the game, and makes people lose their excitement once they hit the cap with their characters. Not everyone likes grinding, or wants to build a badass character to annihilate everyone in their way in Cyrodiil.

Sometimes people just want to hang around, at a very slow pace, check the beautiful scenery and play conceptual characters, several times actually. Right now the development team seems happy that people are requesting futile content that doesn't stand out a bit from hundreds of MMOs, like the ingredients bag and the barber shop - and most of the crown store content makes ESO stands as a very shallow and far from original money-grab. If they keep making little to no effort to appease the RP'ers(inherited from Bethesda games fans) surely this game will get more and more close to being just a wannabe WoW waiting for the next MMO to crush it to pieces.

RadioheadSh0t · April 2016

I'm still holding out hope for Arenas and/or Battlegrounds.

Based on past history, I shouldn't expect much, but maybe without the performance issues of Cyrodiil, PvP can really excel.

If they screw that up, or don't implement it in their 2016-17 year, then I'll officially throw in the towel.

Lysette · April 2016

BenLocoDete wrote: »

Being a buy-to-play game, I believe whether people like Dark Brotherhood or not, they can always quit and check every now and then to see if it entices them back.

Personally, I find the lack of dedicated attention to RP'ers, i.e. they abandoning the idea of a RolePlay server instantiation, players are not being able to participate in the justice system anymore, and barely anything related to RP'ing in the "planned features" hurts the replayability of the game, and makes people lose their excitement once they hit the cap with their characters. Not everyone likes grinding, or wants to build a badass character to annihilate everyone in their way in Cyrodiil.

Sometimes people just want to hang around, at a very slow pace, check the beautiful scenery and play conceptual characters, several times actually. Right now the development team seems happy that people are requesting futile content that doesn't stand out a bit from hundreds of MMOs, like the ingredients bag and the barber shop - and most of the crown store content makes ESO stands as a very shallow and far from original money-grab. If they keep making little to no effort to appease the RP'ers(inherited from Bethesda games fans) surely this game will get more and more close to being just a wannabe WoW waiting for the next MMO to crush it to pieces.

This is because for many the game is just a temporary get-away from real life, a location where they can go and have some fun or just relax and escape the chores of real life, like changing diapers, having to mow the lawn or other things which have to be done or what they would rather want to forget. Not all play to get somewhere in the game. It is more kind of a short-term and easily accessible holiday resort, where they see something else than real life and what is rather cheap compared to other get-aways. This does not sound very exciting and it is not very exciting, but this is the reality for a lot of casual gamers.

And for them little things like a nice costume or other cosmetic "crap" is not crap at all, but something what makes them temporarily happy and lets them go on with their real life later on. Sometimes back to wife aggro, just let them have their moment of peace, where they can escape from all of this for a little while. That is what games do for a lot of people.

Kalante · April 2016

for consoles is getting better. We are getting in game text chat [snip]. And i bet they will *** that up some way or another by making it gimped, like only in a group can you text chat or some bs like that.

Kalante · April 2016

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.

Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

Kalante wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.

Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.

If the OP meant only pvp then this should not be in general discussion but in alliance war.

Lysette · April 2016

Kalante wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.

Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.

See it from this side - people who pvp, have done most of the stuff in the game already. They have bought pretty much all what they will buy already - ZOS made their money with them already and there is not much to gain from this group, because like we see on this forum, they burn through new content in a rush and then they complain again. They might not even buy the content but just sub for a month - so what is to be gained from them - 4 times 15$ per year.

Whereas a casual gamer has most likely not bought all yet, but will over time and he will stay subscribed, while not being a drain on the servers and he will most likely not complain, because he will never discover that there are problems, because he is playing so slowly. And this will go on for years, because this group will never run out of content, because they play so slowly and they will buy what is on the crown store.This is the group from which they gain money in the future and that is why they cater the game for them. It is just like in real life business as well, where the target group are young and new people, who have nothing and need all - old people, who have all already, are not a target group anymore - and that is equivalent to pvp gamers - the money is made with them, not much to gain from them.

Ch4mpTW · April 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.

Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.

See it from this side - people who pvp, have done most of the stuff in the game already. They have bought pretty much all what they will buy already - ZOS made their money with them already and there is not much to gain from this group, because like we see on this forum, they burn through new content in a rush and then they complain again. They might not even buy the content but just sub for a month - so what is to be gained from them - 4 times 15$ per year. Whereas a casual gamer has most likely not bought all yet, but will over time and he will stay subscribed, while not being a drain on the servers and he will most likely not complain, because he will never discover that there are problems, because he is playing so slowly. This is the group from which they gain money in the future and that is why they cater the game for them. It is just like in real life business as well, where the target group are young and new people, who have nothing and need all - old people, who have all already, are not a target group anymore - and that is equivalent to pvp gamers - the money is made with them, not much to gain from them.

You know... The more and more I read from your posts, the more and more things slowly start to "click". Things that I have wondered begin to fall in place. @Fengrush has had a similar effect on me, and has caused me to truly pause for a moment and think about what is going on with ZO$. You know? He encourages deep thought, and gives it how it is. And now you. You appear to have the same effect. A person of logic and thought...

It's funny how the more I immerse myself in the forums, and community overall — the more I tend to slowly grasp the "big picture" being painted before my eyes...

Mysteri0n · April 2016

Dark brotherhood isn't Zenimax last chance . Doom is

Lysette · April 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.

Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.

See it from this side - people who pvp, have done most of the stuff in the game already. They have bought pretty much all what they will buy already - ZOS made their money with them already and there is not much to gain from this group, because like we see on this forum, they burn through new content in a rush and then they complain again. They might not even buy the content but just sub for a month - so what is to be gained from them - 4 times 15$ per year. Whereas a casual gamer has most likely not bought all yet, but will over time and he will stay subscribed, while not being a drain on the servers and he will most likely not complain, because he will never discover that there are problems, because he is playing so slowly. This is the group from which they gain money in the future and that is why they cater the game for them. It is just like in real life business as well, where the target group are young and new people, who have nothing and need all - old people, who have all already, are not a target group anymore - and that is equivalent to pvp gamers - the money is made with them, not much to gain from them.

You know... The more and more I read from your posts, the more and more things slowly start to "click". Things that I have wondered begin to fall in place. @Fengrush has had a similar effect on me, and has caused me to truly pause for a moment and think about what is going on with ZO$. You know? He encourages deep thought, and gives it how it is. And now you. You appear to have the same effect. A person of logic and thought...

It's funny how the more I immerse myself in the forums, and community overall — the more I tend to slowly grasp the "big picture" being painted before my eyes...

It is just the reality of a business, and ZOS is a business. You can enjoy the game nevertheless, I just write that to show, that some expectations are not realistic - ZOS will never cater mostly to pvp or make this a main point of the game again. They might have done this at start, to attract people and they might have thought, well, we can make a lot of money with those, who do not know TES games yet. And this goal is achieved, not much to gain in this segment anymore. And now they can do, what the game should have been in the first place - an ever expanding oasis for TES fans - and for them the game has to feel like a single player game, where they can do nearly all alone. They can group up, but most will not do it, because they come from single player games and are used to play solo. They might group for a little while, but return to their old ways of gaming.

Eirikir · April 2016

I keep seeing "Zo$" as if it is some insult.... you know they are a for-profit company right? They aren't keepers of some grand institution. They aren't making this game for "you". They are a business, the goal of a business is to separate you from as much money as possible. If you spend it of your own free will and later regret... then stop and walk away.

I never got where people got the idea that you are entitled to the perfect game, like the devs work for you personally, like they are disobeying you or something.

SanSan · April 2016

Jeeez...every game has these types of people.
That content failed so i'm quiting and game is dying because i say so.
*eye roll* You keep believing that but why are you still on the forums if you quit? Just leave the game be and don't bother players.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Lysette wrote: »

My reason why I do not like PvP in the way it is done in this and many other MMOs is, that it is pointless. You kill someone but he does not stay dead, he will be resurrected or is back a few minutes later. This is as exciting as rolling a barrel uphill and before you get there, it will roll down and you have to roll it up again - Sisyphus comes to mind here. They do not even loose something, they do not have to repair their stuff, and for what do they fight?- For pointless things which last minutes and has no impact on the game whatsoever. The new emperor, pointless thing, it is not even announced in the rest of the world. There is no other reason to fight than to make the life of others miserable. If I want to pvp, I go to EVE, where it has at least purpose and where is something to gain to conquer and keep it for a common purpose. In ESO this is just a pointless farce.

people fight to pvp. no need for another reason. Ofcourse, ap finally has value again.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Kalante wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.

Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.

it is a combination of both.

Wolfshead · April 2016

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I have no DLC's still playing the base game without a subscription. I'm content with what I got, two characters at VR16 another coming up at VR10, and got 8/9 on all crafting traits minus nirnhoned. It will be some time before I give in and do get a DLC, but otherwise I'm fine with most of what this game has to offer. At least until Legion comes out and then I spend time leveling a Demon Hunter.

Fun that you mention Legion if any that expansion have got really bad review everyone that have been playing alpha say the samething that Legion have become a facebook game and the use thing like the command table the have in Garrison in WoD which people did want to see anymore talk about listen to there playerbase just say.

When it come ESO i would like to see ZoS focus on the bugs and the problem many have with 64-bit client before add more DLC i know ZoS say that are go to add new content every 3 months or so but if thing go like it go now i think people will just get more upset and *** off so i dont see any point of add more content until the have fix the know issues i know it will be always be bug in game but it have go so far in our household that we hardly login in to ESO anymore for the random DC we get thank to problem with 64-bit client ESO have atm.

vyrusb23 · April 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.

Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.

See it from this side - people who pvp, have done most of the stuff in the game already. They have bought pretty much all what they will buy already - ZOS made their money with them already and there is not much to gain from this group, because like we see on this forum, they burn through new content in a rush and then they complain again. They might not even buy the content but just sub for a month - so what is to be gained from them - 4 times 15$ per year. Whereas a casual gamer has most likely not bought all yet, but will over time and he will stay subscribed, while not being a drain on the servers and he will most likely not complain, because he will never discover that there are problems, because he is playing so slowly. This is the group from which they gain money in the future and that is why they cater the game for them. It is just like in real life business as well, where the target group are young and new people, who have nothing and need all - old people, who have all already, are not a target group anymore - and that is equivalent to pvp gamers - the money is made with them, not much to gain from them.

You know... The more and more I read from your posts, the more and more things slowly start to "click". Things that I have wondered begin to fall in place. @Fengrush has had a similar effect on me, and has caused me to truly pause for a moment and think about what is going on with ZO$. You know? He encourages deep thought, and gives it how it is. And now you. You appear to have the same effect. A person of logic and thought...

It's funny how the more I immerse myself in the forums, and community overall — the more I tend to slowly grasp the "big picture" being painted before my eyes...

It is just the reality of a business, and ZOS is a business. You can enjoy the game nevertheless, I just write that to show, that some expectations are not realistic - ZOS will never cater mostly to pvp or make this a main point of the game again. They might have done this at start, to attract people and they might have thought, well, we can make a lot of money with those, who do not know TES games yet. And this goal is achieved, not much to gain in this segment anymore. And now they can do, what the game should have been in the first place - an ever expanding oasis for TES fans - and for them the game has to feel like a single player game, where they can do nearly all alone. They can group up, but most will not do it, because they come from single player games and are used to play solo. They might group for a little while, but return to their old ways of gaming.

You make too much sense and understand things too clearly to be posting on these forums.

It's nice to see someone who "gets it." Most don't.

Samphaa · April 2016

My friends are slowly leaving, starting to play other games, too many bugs and lag constantly, it's not as enjoyable as it used to be that's for sure. Mainly because of the bugs

Vangy · April 2016

Day by day, week by week, I slowly start to see my friends list with less and less people active lol. Im at the point where I barely log on for more than 20-30 mins a day myself. Except for weekends when I join my guildies for PvP. Im hoping DB brings some healthy changes to the game.. If not, I guess its time to finally put ESO down for me. That would be a sad day =(

Valorin · April 2016

I still love the game. Also loved the Thieves Guild dlc. And the client is evolving. I'll definately stay.

TheHsN · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you say that TG DLC was unsuccessful ? Source ?

More LAG , More BUG, Skills that nobody use. Map that just for harvest materials or motif , pvp is in worst times... etc...

Bossdonut · April 2016

DB will be their burning crusade.

BC solved a lot of glaring issues in vanilla wow. Enough to keep people playing. If they *** it up, it'll go the way of RIFT.

GaldorP · April 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

GaldorP wrote: »

I think financially they're doing pretty well (though I don't really know that, it's just based on my impressions in the game).
What worries me a bit is that there is currently very little content announced for the future. Dark Brotherhood has been announced as the next big update and DLC (Update 10). We know there will be crafting bags and that veteran ranks will be removed. From what I gathered it's not certain that the barber shop will be released at the same time. And that's pretty much all the concrete info I have about future updates of ESO (please tell me if I missed something). I assume Murkmire or Clockwork City will come after Dark Brotherhood, and at some point housing or arenas (but no sneak peek on any of those things) so not certain if or when those things will be released. I hope they post some more info about the Dark Brotherhood update soonish.

Edit: Speaking about the gameplay/game design perspective, I still think the game's main flaw is that it's mostly a single-player game with lots of one-time completion content, still too little repeatable stuff and meaningful reward systems for endgame (bind on pickup item rewards systems have too much randomization, players have too little control over what they get [Veteran Maelstrom Arena, Undaunted Shoulders, Wrothgar Dailies], there's not enough rare item rewards that are tradable; there's no near infinite time sink gear-wise in ESO [for example a system that adds random attributes to an item which you can reroll if you spend certain rare materials, or an over-enchant system]). There's no item reward mechanic that keeps someone who's reached Champion Rank 501 (and many long-time players on PC have reached it by now) and who has the gear they want playing. Having a few new motifs to grind out in every new DLC is not enough to keep every long-term player interested in the game.
The 2nd major flaw (that I consider to be a flaw but I know that some players like that about ESO) is that there's very little need to work together with other players in almost any area of the game. No mechanic that incentivizes joining a guild and working together on a common goal (there could be levels/ranks/or leaderboards for guilds, or at least an ingame guild database that shows how active a guild is in different areas of the game; there could also be special guild quests, guild passive skills, active skills that work only on guild members, etc.). There are also no dedicated crafting or material gathering classes in ESO, everyone can be a master of all professions and almost all skill lines at the same time. World boss quests in Wrothgar are pretty much the only non-instanced PvE content where you see random players do something together in PvE (because the game incentivizes it here: most players aren't strong enough to solo these bosses, you can only do all 6 quests if someone else shares them with you, you have a better chance to get loot from the boss, and you can finish the quest faster while in a group).

You do realize this game has a majority of solo players, right? You also know that there are some people still playing Skyrim today, repeating it over and over and over with new characters. You seem to approach this game as if it is a 'traditional' MMO, when Matt Firor came straight out and said that it is NOT a traditional MMO and in that same article he mentioned the word SOLO four times. He also mentioned how they know exactly what players are doing at all times in the game, which means they have the data which shows what the majority of players are doing and also how much each of them is contributing financially to the game. Thus, should it be a surprise that ZOS designs the game based upon what their majority is playing?

Matt Firor said that in an article released almost 2 years after the game's launch on PC (if you're refering to the article I think you're refering to). ESO was initially marketed as an MMORPG with large scale PvP. But yes, I realize that a majority of the player-base really likes the soloable content in ESO and the general direction the game has taken. It makes sense that they took that route and made the game as much fun as possible for this majority. Personally, I would just like to have more repeatable open world (non-instanced) endgame group-oriented content with rewards that can be traded and a more complex crafting and guild system like I've seen it in other MMOGs. But I know I'm in the minority here.

Duiwel · April 2016

Hard to say but I am glad for Zenimax ( the father company ) & Bethesda the new fps beta this weekend was awesome I am buying it @ launch, the first FPS I will buy @ launch since ...god I can't remember perhaps 2006? So kudos to them!

I think this game will survive, but overall activity will decrease what I mean by this is instead of your average player playing x5 a week for 1 or 2 hours and your more dedicated players playing up to 5-7 hours a night ( depending on how late they sleep ) that will decrease slightly so maybe 4 nights a week for 40-90mins instead and instead of 5-7 hours perhaps 3-5 hours? Just my estimation.

Unless it blows our minds of course

Cyrodiil, mob aggro ( that doesn't de-aggro in a reasonable range ), the jumping onto a rock and then slowly floating like a feather frozen in time, the ground objects that block you while running or dodge rolling ( objects bug since TG ) need to be addressed for me to have a super enjoyable time and I will look past any lack of content in the DB patch ( honest ).

RDMyers65b14_ESO · April 2016

There has been threads like this since beta with every patch being 'the one' to end the game. Guess what, it's still here. Yes, the names and faces have changed but that happens in every online game since BBSes.

Lysette · April 2016

Actually I see ESO as just out of it's infant state and approaching an adolescent phase, where they do not have a really working routine to deal with issues and they try out different things like teenagers do it. But it will settle to a stable routine (which is on the horizon with those 4 DLCs per year, if they can keep up the pace) and then ESO will be just fine. It might have a very different audience from what it had at start, but it will be a sustainable game which can go on for as long as ZOS has interesting contents to add to the game. I am certain that most of the annoying bugs will be fixed over time or simply cease to exist - like when most of the pvp crowd leaves, there will be no serious lag issues anymore - as well a way to "fix" it, sit it out.

EsoRecon · April 2016

Zos will find a way to mess it up. I don't have anymore trust in them.