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Would you like to see Public Dungeons balanced for hunting in groups of 4 or more added to the game?
GaldorP
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What I would really love to see in ESO is open zones that are like Public Dungeons with lots of enemies that give good exp and decent drops, but have their difficulty balanced for hunting in groups of 4 or more players!
Imagine a dungeon like Old Orsinium (maybe even larger and with several levels) where there are areas with stronger monsters, that hit a lot harder, and have a lot more Health than regular monsters, but also grant more XP and slightly better drops. Groups of 4 or more players could just go to that area and hunt monsters together for as long as they want, look for a replacement when someone has to leave. Some monsters will hit so hard that most groups will require a dedicated tank and a healer. This should not replace Public dungeons which are ideal for soloing and groups of 2 players, but just offer players who like to do that to hunt monsters in a larger group for as long as they want as an alternative to instanced group dungeons (an optional alternative that is not meant to replace current Public dungeons, solo-questing, instanced group dungeons, or PvP but just offers another type of activity for players who like it: grinding tougher monsters in groups of 4 or more players).
So my question is: Would you like to see such "Public Group Dungeons" (or zones if they're outside) where groups of players can just hunt strong monsters for XP and loot added to the game (access is not limited to groups so you can go there on your own but difficulty is balanced for groups of 4 players or even more for the areas with the strongest monsters)?
Edit: To clarifiy, what I'm suggesting here are "open non-instanced zones (you don't need to be in a group to enter them) with strong monsters where groups of more than 2 players can continuously hunt for XP and loot comparable to what you would get from soloing in a Public dungeon for the same amount of time". Those dungeons are not meant to be very challenging or difficult for groups to hunt there (though dangerous enough that you could die if you don't pay attention). They are meant to be group grinding areas where people can just hunt for a while in a group of more than 2 players.
Edit2: Reworded this post to avoid misunderstandings.
Edit3: XP from monsters would be split among all members of the group that made the biggest contribution in killing a monster, the amount of gold dropped and the chance to get loot would also be reduced based on the number of players that are in the group + some modifications if necessary to make 4-9 players the most efficient group size (most groups would probably consist of 1 tank, 1 healer, and then 2-7 damage dealers which corresponds a lot better with how roles are distributed in the ESO player base than the 1 tank/1 healer/2 damage dealers formula the group finder uses for instanced group dungeons).
Edit4: The main spawn points would have some distance between them and monsters would hit too hard (with ranged attacks and skills as well) and have too much Health to allow for huge AoE pulls. If two groups of players hunt on the exact same spot it wouldn't be good for either of them (see Edit3). Small groups or single players wouldn't be able to killsteal from larger groups (see Edit3). The dungeon should be large enough to allow for a lot of groups to hunt there.
Edited by GaldorP on April 17, 2016 6:29PM Imagine a dungeon like Old Orsinium (maybe even larger and with several levels) where there are areas with stronger monsters, that hit a lot harder, and have a lot more Health than regular monsters, but also grant more XP and slightly better drops. Groups of 4 or more players could just go to that area and hunt monsters together for as long as they want, look for a replacement when someone has to leave. Some monsters will hit so hard that most groups will require a dedicated tank and a healer. This should not replace Public dungeons which are ideal for soloing and groups of 2 players, but just offer players who like to do that to hunt monsters in a larger group for as long as they want as an alternative to instanced group dungeons (an optional alternative that is not meant to replace current Public dungeons, solo-questing, instanced group dungeons, or PvP but just offers another type of activity for players who like it: grinding tougher monsters in groups of 4 or more players).
So my question is: Would you like to see such "Public Group Dungeons" (or zones if they're outside) where groups of players can just hunt strong monsters for XP and loot added to the game (access is not limited to groups so you can go there on your own but difficulty is balanced for groups of 4 players or even more for the areas with the strongest monsters)?
Edit: To clarifiy, what I'm suggesting here are "open non-instanced zones (you don't need to be in a group to enter them) with strong monsters where groups of more than 2 players can continuously hunt for XP and loot comparable to what you would get from soloing in a Public dungeon for the same amount of time". Those dungeons are not meant to be very challenging or difficult for groups to hunt there (though dangerous enough that you could die if you don't pay attention). They are meant to be group grinding areas where people can just hunt for a while in a group of more than 2 players.
Edit2: Reworded this post to avoid misunderstandings.
Edit3: XP from monsters would be split among all members of the group that made the biggest contribution in killing a monster, the amount of gold dropped and the chance to get loot would also be reduced based on the number of players that are in the group + some modifications if necessary to make 4-9 players the most efficient group size (most groups would probably consist of 1 tank, 1 healer, and then 2-7 damage dealers which corresponds a lot better with how roles are distributed in the ESO player base than the 1 tank/1 healer/2 damage dealers formula the group finder uses for instanced group dungeons).
Edit4: The main spawn points would have some distance between them and monsters would hit too hard (with ranged attacks and skills as well) and have too much Health to allow for huge AoE pulls. If two groups of players hunt on the exact same spot it wouldn't be good for either of them (see Edit3). Small groups or single players wouldn't be able to killsteal from larger groups (see Edit3). The dungeon should be large enough to allow for a lot of groups to hunt there.
Would you like to see Public Dungeons balanced for hunting in groups of 4 or more added to the game? 45 votes
Yes.
26%
12 votes
No.
53%
24 votes
I don't care.
20%
9 votes
0
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VaxtinTheWolf✭✭✭✭✭I think that is what craglorn is was.|| AD - Rah'Jiin Lv50 Khajiit Nightblade (Damage) || EP - Generic Argonian Lv50 Argonian Nightblade (Tank) || DC - Zinkotsu Lv50 Breton Nightblade (Healer) ||
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GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
Craglorn delves are instances for up to 4 players and there's no strong monsters on the main map (except for some bosses). So that's not really the same thing.VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »I think that is what craglorn is was.Edited by GaldorP on April 17, 2016 10:20AM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭this is already in game
All those public dungeons (one in each area) are meant to be done in a group, but were nerfed so hard you can easily solo them. You'll see...as soon as ZOS introduces this, a lot of players will cry, that they don't want to play in a group to complete them.Noobplar3 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
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Craglorn delves are instances for up to 4 players and there's no strong monsters on the main map (except for some bosses). So that's not really the same thing.VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »I think that is what craglorn is was.
2-4 players is a group,and at one time those said monsters we're powerful.we just got more powerful.and yea xp,you got me there.0 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
Public dungeons could be soloed even before Vet content got nerfed. My suggestion is to add zones with monsters that really have their difficulty balanced for a group of 4 players but in an open zone.this is already in game
All those public dungeons (one in each area) are meant to be done in a group, but were nerfed so hard you can easily solo them. You'll see...as soon as ZOS introduces this, a lot of players will cry, that they don't want to play in a group to complete them.2 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
The main point of my suggestion is that it's an open zone where groups can continuously hunt strong monsters. No part of Craglorn ever offered that.
Craglorn delves are instances for up to 4 players and there's no strong monsters on the main map (except for some bosses). So that's not really the same thing.VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »I think that is what craglorn is was.
2-4 players is a group,and at one time those said monsters we're powerful.we just got more powerful.and yea xp,you got me there.Edited by GaldorP on April 17, 2016 10:26AM0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
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The main point of my suggestion is that it's an open zone where groups can coninuously hunt strong monsters. No part of Craglorn ever offered that.
Craglorn delves are instances for up to 4 players and there's no strong monsters on the main map (except for some bosses). So that's not really the same thing.VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »I think that is what craglorn is was.
2-4 players is a group,and at one time those said monsters we're powerful.we just got more powerful.and yea xp,you got me there.
so basically more wrothgar/hews bane world bosses?0 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
Like a dungeon full of monsters that are almost as strong as these bosses and respawn after a few minutes, with XP and loot rewards comparable to what you get from Public Dungeons in the same time (but with less crazy red zones and minion spawning mechanics just hard hitting with regular attacks and some special attacks that players can react to within the limited space of a dungeon; maybe with new, more interesting aggro mechanics where a group of minion monsters will share agro with a leader monster so the tank can keep aggro a bit easier).
The main point of my suggestion is that it's an open zone where groups can coninuously hunt strong monsters. No part of Craglorn ever offered that.
Craglorn delves are instances for up to 4 players and there's no strong monsters on the main map (except for some bosses). So that's not really the same thing.VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »I think that is what craglorn is was.
2-4 players is a group,and at one time those said monsters we're powerful.we just got more powerful.and yea xp,you got me there.
so basically more wrothgar/hews bane world bosses?Edited by GaldorP on April 17, 2016 10:34AM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
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Public dungeons could be soloed even before Vet content got nerfed. My suggestion is to add zones with monsters that really have their difficulty balanced for a group of 4 players but in an open zone.this is already in game
All those public dungeons (one in each area) are meant to be done in a group, but were nerfed so hard you can easily solo them. You'll see...as soon as ZOS introduces this, a lot of players will cry, that they don't want to play in a group to complete them.
See the problem? Even there lots of people cried about the "difficulty".
If there is notinstanced conten, balanced for a group there will be someone who wants to solo it, but isn't able to. And the chances, that some of those will cry about it on the forums is rly high. Expect nerfs before you even find those areas...Noobplar1 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
The question is would you like to see it added to the game, not do you think the community will like it
Public dungeons could be soloed even before Vet content got nerfed. My suggestion is to add zones with monsters that really have their difficulty balanced for a group of 4 players but in an open zone.this is already in game
All those public dungeons (one in each area) are meant to be done in a group, but were nerfed so hard you can easily solo them. You'll see...as soon as ZOS introduces this, a lot of players will cry, that they don't want to play in a group to complete them.
See the problem? Even there lots of people cried about the "difficulty".
If there is notinstanced conten, balanced for a group there will be someone who wants to solo it, but isn't able to. And the chances, that some of those will cry about it on the forums is rly high. Expect nerfs before you even find those areas...
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GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
No, like open non-instanced zones with strong monsters where groups of more than 2 players can continuously hunt for XP and loot comparable to what you would get from soloing in a Public dungeon for the same amount of time.you mean like veteran dungeons?
Edit: And other groups and players would be in the same zone with you (which is why it should be at least as large as let's say Old Orsinium).Edited by GaldorP on April 17, 2016 10:44AM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
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The question is would you like to see it added to the game, not do you think the community will like it
Public dungeons could be soloed even before Vet content got nerfed. My suggestion is to add zones with monsters that really have their difficulty balanced for a group of 4 players but in an open zone.this is already in game
All those public dungeons (one in each area) are meant to be done in a group, but were nerfed so hard you can easily solo them. You'll see...as soon as ZOS introduces this, a lot of players will cry, that they don't want to play in a group to complete them.
See the problem? Even there lots of people cried about the "difficulty".
If there is notinstanced conten, balanced for a group there will be someone who wants to solo it, but isn't able to. And the chances, that some of those will cry about it on the forums is rly high. Expect nerfs before you even find those areas...
I'm all for challenging content, but i think a big part of the community can't handle it. But it seems like ZOS found a good way to create and implement it. I'm also rly looking forward to the next DLC, let's see how the removing of vetranks will work. Maybe craglorn gets a bit challenging again, maybe vetareas/dungeons aswell...would be sooo nice Noobplar0 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭This has been tried and failed look at craglorn and places like shadas tear they had to nerf it as people were complaining they were FORCED TO GROUP. Dont believe me search the caps bit on the forums. to answer the question yes I would but it aint gonna happen2 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
Shada's Tear is an instanced dungeon for up to 4 players. It's not an open zone.This has been tried and failed look at craglorn and places like shadas tear they had to nerf it as people were complaining they were FORCED TO GROUP. Dont believe me search the caps bit on the forums. to answer the question yes I would but it aint gonna happen
People complained because it was too difficult for them and they wanted the achievement. And Shada's Tear had terrible rewards (XP and loot), the only reason to do it more than once was for fun or to help other players.
What I'm suggesting is not extremely challenging or difficult content. It's just monsters that hit hard and have a lot of Health which wouldn't be very efficient to solo. It's not something almost mandatory like Cadwell's Silver and Gold zones were when they were nerfed. People who don't like hunting stronger monsters in a group for a longer amount of time can do solo quests instead or grind in the already existing regular Public Dungeons.0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
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Shada's Tear is an instanced dungeon for up to 4 players. It's not an open zone.This has been tried and failed look at craglorn and places like shadas tear they had to nerf it as people were complaining they were FORCED TO GROUP. Dont believe me search the caps bit on the forums. to answer the question yes I would but it aint gonna happen
People complained because it was too difficult for them and they wanted the achievement. And Shada's Tear had terrible rewards (XP and loot), the only reason to do it more than once was for fun or to help other players.
What I'm suggesting is not extremely challenging or difficult content. It's just monsters that hit hard and have a lot of Health which wouldn't be very efficient to solo. It's not something almost mandatory like Cadwell's Silver and Gold zones were when they were nerfed. People who don't like hunting stronger monsters in a group for a longer amount of time can do solo quests instead or grind in the already existing regular Public Dungeons.
The hardest boss in that dungeon (the spider) could be skipped. The endboss was all about positioning and group coordination...it was a great fight and a great dungeon. Now it's just extremely easy. we didn't have any problms when twomanning it....Noobplar0 -
VDoom1✭✭✭✭✭Yes.Id say yes. A lot of people are trying to find good spots to just grind xp. But since that's not really the point of the game once those spots are found and made public they are removed. Or the xp you get is cut in half. So, yeah I wouldn't mind an official approved open world dungeon that lets one do that. Sure it will probably be very popular and just killing a monster or boss before someone else might be hard. But would still be good to have.We Fight For Cyrodiil.
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lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
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Shada's Tear is an instanced dungeon for up to 4 players. It's not an open zone.This has been tried and failed look at craglorn and places like shadas tear they had to nerf it as people were complaining they were FORCED TO GROUP. Dont believe me search the caps bit on the forums. to answer the question yes I would but it aint gonna happen
People complained because it was too difficult for them and they wanted the achievement. And Shada's Tear had terrible rewards (XP and loot), the only reason to do it more than once was for fun or to help other players.
What I'm suggesting is not extremely challenging or difficult content. It's just monsters that hit hard and have a lot of Health which wouldn't be very efficient to solo. It's not something almost mandatory like Cadwell's Silver and Gold zones were when they were nerfed. People who don't like hunting stronger monsters in a group for a longer amount of time can do solo quests instead or grind in the already existing regular Public Dungeons.
Thats all craglorn upper and lower were but they had to nerf them. As I said I would like to see a new adventure zone with stuff that needs a group but if its not soloable people will complain about forced groups and if it is then people will complain its to easy and doesnt even need a group. IC is similar in this regard as its more advantageous to run in a small group to deter ganking and the bosses are only solable by very few people and builds.
we will have to see what murkmire brings as that last I heard is an adventure zone maybe apearing toward the back end of this year0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.This would be really awesome when it's new and shiny. Then the next content will come out and less people will do it. Eventually, it will be something people rarely do, and new players and players leveling alts will have to pull teeth to get a group together for it.
I do like the idea, but Craglorn has already taught us that ZOS can't really keep the excitement for old content up and has little interest in revitalizing old stuff to keep it desirable to do."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle1 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
But that same argument could be applied to any type of new content O_oMasterSpatula wrote: »This would be really awesome when it's new and shiny. Then the next content will come out and less people will do it. Eventually, it will be something people rarely do, and new players and players leveling alts will have to pull teeth to get a group together for it.
I do like the idea, but Craglorn has already taught us that ZOS can't really keep the excitement for old content up and has little interest in revitalizing old stuff to keep it desirable to do.0 -
BlackEar✭✭✭✭✭No.No.
Why?
We have the dungeons. Instanced and scaled to 4 players.
"Open" dungeons that are set to 4 players are imbalanced by the very philosophy. It is simply bad game design.
The majority of the encounters will either be too hard (because you are alone) or too easy (because there are more than 4 players in the dungeon).
If you want group content do the group dungeons It is why they are there. Bjorn Blackbear - Master Angler - Collector - Black Market Mogul - Ebonheart Pact - Exterminatus - EU.
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Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
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No, like open non-instanced zones with strong monsters where groups of more than 2 players can continuously hunt for XP and loot comparable to what you would get from soloing in a Public dungeon for the same amount of time.you mean like veteran dungeons?
Edit: And other groups and players would be in the same zone with you (which is why it should be at least as large as let's say Old Orsinium).
You mean you want a grinding zone ?
With no function other than massive xp, gold and gear.Edited by Rune_Relic on April 17, 2016 12:48PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.
It might help people debate your point if you could make up your mind whether you're talking about dungeons or open zones.
But whichever it is, it is forced if you can't complete it without being in a group, regardless of what other options there are in the game. Craglorn has shown the folly of constructing a zone in that way, although where instanced dungeons are concerned I've no problem at all with them having content that is scaled according to the size of the party entering it, from solo to full group.
I also don't have any issues with having a few more difficult world bosses and dolmens in the open world zones that require a group. However, it's not that the existing ones have been dumbed down that causes the lack of challenge, it's the fact that there are loads of low level alts running around soloing everything because they've got 501 champion points.
However, you do need to clarify exactly what you are talking about.Edited by Tandor on April 17, 2016 12:59PM0 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭What amazes me is how the concept of "just hunting monsters in a group of more than 2 players for loot and XP (and possibly quest items) in a dungeon for some time" – which was a core activity in pretty much every MMORPG I've played in the past – is a concept that's so alien to a good part of the ESO community they can't even imagine it being in the game (which supposedly was marketed as an MMORPG at some point). (And no, that's not the same thing as doing scripted closed instances with scripted boss fights over and over again).0
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GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
It's not one-time completion content. It's a zone whether interior which is what I call a "dungeon" or outside does not matter; anyone could go there and just hunt monsters for XP and loot, but the monsters would be more difficult than the ones in current Public dungeons (at least in some areas) so people could also grind in groups of more than 2 players (or would be encouraged to for the stronger monsters because it's not efficient with 2). Yes, it's meant to be an open (as in you can encounter other players and groups there) grinding zone for groups. In no way should people be forced to go there; it's meant to be a fully optional alternative to solo-grinding, solo-questing, instanced group dungeons, and PvP.
It might help people debate your point if you could make up your mind whether you're talking about dungeons or open zones.
But whichever it is, it is forced if you can't complete it without being in a group, regardless of what other options there are in the game. Craglorn has shown the folly of constructing a zone in that way, although where instanced dungeons are concerned I've no problem at all with them having content that is scaled according to the size of the party entering it, from solo to full group.
I also don't have any issues with having a few more difficult world bosses and dolmens in the open world zones that require a group. However, it's not that the existing ones have been dumbed down that causes the lack of challenge, it's the fact that there are loads of low level alts running around soloing everything because they've got 501 champion points.
However, you do need to clarify exactly what you are talking about.Edited by GaldorP on April 17, 2016 3:08PM0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A lot of people around here don't like group content. Goodness knows why. They play this game basically as a single player game, and sadly Zenimax is making less and less group content and more solo stuff.Sweetrolls for all!
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