Power extration rework : What do you think ?

DouDaWitzki · April 2016

Hello there.

DISCLAIMER : This is all my personnal judgement please feel free to discuss with me

I recently farmed siphoning to get power extraction (that we will now call PE)and i must say im pretty disapointed.
The damage is low, and the utility is futile, and already occupied by others spells, that are much more powerful.
Let me explain my thought here.

PE mean you are stamina, and using this in a melee range, right ?
If you are stamina you have 2 melee options : 2H and DW.

If you are 2H, the Major brutality buff is already provided in one of the most nice abilities in the game, rally.
So just use rally, and brawler for AoE, that gives you more dmg (Mighty CP), a shield , and a heal.
#I see you coming with "well yeah but you use 2 slots" : 2H users USE rally, so with or without PE, so we just swap PE for Brawler here#

If you are DW ... well just use Steel tornado.
Bummer.
This skill has a larger radius (does it even after patches ? i must admit im not sure) , more damage, have an execute throttle, and is easier to get.
Then you will say : yeah, but then you dont have the Major brutality buff, and i will answer : yes, but you dont need it, because how OP Steel tonado is, even without Major brutality, it still does more damage than PE.

This spell have a great potential and i really LOVE it. The animation is really great and overall i like it, but it poorly fills niches that are already filled with way better abilities.

Just compare PE morph to the magicka one (sry i dont remember the name right now).
PE : You gain a bit of damage (oh really ? waw)
Magicka one : You gain an OP sustain, and it adds Major Sorcery (?), that adds, how convenient, 20% spell damage.

Now tell me what morph really do suck here ?

Once again, i love this spell, but it needs a rework.
Just somethink like making it equal to the other one would be great.
Stamina stealing, dealing (DAMN) physical damage that would scale with CP, health stealing, Shielding, Applying A debuff. Literally anything useful would make this spell viable.

TL;DR : Power extraction sucks ATM and needs a rework.

Note that never i said buff. and i mean it. It needs a rework.

Thanks for reading, and please if you feel i've not noticed something important, let me know.

Wing · April 2016

I agree that its kind of made superfluous by the other AOE's in both DW and 2H, however personally when I run my NB stamina it does give me the flexibility to use S&B and still have a good AOE option.

I really wish rally was a FG skill and not a 2H skill though . . .

DouDaWitzki · April 2016

Well sure, S&B could use it but IMHO tankblades are so much OP as magblade, but yeah, it gives Stamblades with S&B an option, didnt think of that.

You got a point

Autolycus · April 2016

Power extraction has always been lackluster. Actually, I shouldn't say always. There was a brief time period where PE was incredibly powerful due to it's unlimited multiplier potential. You used to be able to exponentially stack your weapon damage by "extracting" 11+ targets, and your WD would skyrocket for a brief time. Sadly, those days were extremely short-lived, and PE has been rather lackluster (a nice way of putting it) since. But even back in those days, you really would just use it to supercharge your WD and then rely on something like steel tornado anyway.

In short, I agree. It really does need a rework. The cost is too high, the damage is too low. My idea for reworking the skill without putting a great deal of time and effort into it would be something along the lines of Empowering the next attack. It would be able to Empower itself, which would both justify the cost and the lower (relative) damage compared to its strongest contenders. I'm certain others will speculate that this would be too powerful, but I could make the case in many ways that would depict it in a more balanced fashion. Regardless, this is unlikely to happen anyway.

DouDaWitzki · April 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

It would be able to Empower itself, which would both justify the cost and the lower (relative) damage compared to its strongest contenders. I'm certain others will speculate that this would be too powerful, but I could make the case in many ways that would depict it in a more balanced fashion. Regardless, this is unlikely to happen anyway.

Wrecking blows does empower itself doesnt it ?
This wouldnt be "too powerful" but we would be in the same problematic than always, we would have 2 self centered AoEs that would fight for the same niche, and player would actually pick the weapon style that is the most powerful atm.

I think this spell should be something new for Stamblades, that isnt already present, as an utility.

Silver_Strider · April 2016

My suggestion for Power Extraction would be to change the damage it deals to either poison or disease damage so that it scales with Mighty.

If changed to poison, is could be a powerful AoE DoT akin to Caltrops and Volley that would really hurt if you stack all 3 on a group of enemies.
If changed to disease, it becomes a AoE heal debuff that could be VERY useful in PvP, if not outright lethal when coupled with something like Fascilla's Guile for a potential 80% heal debuff.

Either change would make it worthwhile IMO, although I will admit an 80% AoE heal debuff might be a little much so I'm leaning more towards Poison damage than Disease.

emily3989 · April 2016

Very true. Sap Essence (the mag morph) is an almost no-brainer choice for a magblade build, but I don't think I would even consider PE for a stamina build. That alone indicates something.

It's useless since maj. brut. is already up with rally for most anyway. Plus it's a stamina ability dealing magika damage...

nordickittyhawk · April 2016

its awful... look at sap its like 10x better in everyway. drain is just a insult to stam users.

acw37162 · April 2016

PE works very well, the only thing steel tornado has over it atm is execute damage modifier.

If you run bow/2h PE is a perfectly acceptable substitute for mob trash killing.

NB's in general need to remain unbuffed for awhile until other classes can catch up.

Just my opinion

DouDaWitzki · April 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

PE works very well, the only thing steel tornado has over it atm is execute damage modifier.

If you run bow/2h PE is a perfectly acceptable substitute for mob trash killing.

NB's in general need to remain unbuffed for awhile until other classes can catch up.

Just my opinion

Brawler has better CP scaling + gives a shield which is way better at trash cleaning.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

I think it should heal just like sap essence, and it would be nice if biting jabs did the same thing.

acw37162 · April 2016

DouDaWitzki wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

PE works very well, the only thing steel tornado has over it atm is execute damage modifier.

If you run bow/2h PE is a perfectly acceptable substitute for mob trash killing.

NB's in general need to remain unbuffed for awhile until other classes can catch up.

Just my opinion

Brawler has better CP scaling + gives a shield which is way better at trash cleaning.

PE is what I call an idiot proof 360 AoE, which is to say I can lazily tap r2 circle over and over without really paying attention , which works better for what I use it for then the positioning requirement of Brawler

The problem for me is PE, is 2H versus everything else, 2H is just better then every other stamina weapon set. The only thing is lacks is a idiot proof AOE (ST or PE).

Even if you wanted to run a DW/Bow build only two classes can really pull that off well ATM stam sorc and stam DK; marginally stam NB.

But while both stam sorc and stam DK have access to major brutality buff pre entering combat unlike flying blade which requires a target being class has a stamina based gap closer which pushes you back to 2H.

If silver leash worked like DK chains there could be some diversity.

Currently the only class that has access in their skill line to a stamina based gap closer is NB which always make 2H superior to DW even if you didn't have ridiculousness of momentum and the stamina regen passive

GreenSoup2HoT · April 2016

Power extraction should be the stamina sap essence.... but its not. Stamina users also cannot regen stamina while blocking, so magicka sap tanks will still win that battle.

In the end, power extraction was just a poorly thought out stamina morph for night-blades. Especially once caltrops stopped procing siphoning attacks, you will not block cast PE.

Why does magicka block tanks gotta be so much better then stamina in every way.... stamina heavy armour with aoe just does not work.

Also Brawler is crap outside of PvE.

Stannum · April 2016

Tell zos to turn off magika regen while blocking also )). Make tanks suffer again.

Septimus_Magna · April 2016

It scales off weapon dmg/max stamina but deals magic dmg.
Dmg is lower and range is smaller than Steel Tornado.
Steel Tornado deals increased dmg vs low health targets.

It just feels like a half-finished skill, the Power Extraction morph makes it scale off weapon dmg/max stamina but doesnt really add anything.

Stannum · April 2016

make it hp drain like sap

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2016

I have tried to defend this power in the past not its just bad I use it on a tank set up and that's it.

DouDaWitzki · April 2016

Look how much people want a change and then nothing happens.
I dont even know if ZOS is taking players into account.

Half finished spells/set ... Are they even trying to make stamina at least viable ?

Lynx7386 · April 2016

Power extraction should deal physical, poison, or disease damage.

Power extraction needs to have a reduced cost and increased damage, both are out of whack right now.

I like the idea of power extraction granting empower, to buff itself, but I'm not sure we really need that since we can get empower via ambush or other abilities already.

What would be interesting is if power extraction granted healing based on either the damage done or the number of targets hit, stamina has too few heals available to it right now. The same can be said for biting jabs for the templar, should provide healing as well like the magicka morph.

cmabouaf · April 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

My suggestion for Power Extraction would be to change the damage it deals to either poison or disease damage so that it scales with Mighty.

If changed to poison, is could be a powerful AoE DoT akin to Caltrops and Volley that would really hurt if you stack all 3 on a group of enemies.
If changed to disease, it becomes a AoE heal debuff that could be VERY useful in PvP, if not outright lethal when coupled with something like Fascilla's Guile for a potential 80% heal debuff.

Either change would make it worthwhile IMO, although I will admit an 80% AoE heal debuff might be a little much so I'm leaning more towards Poison damage than Disease.

i just had this converstion recently with my friend, i completely agree.

zerosingularity · April 2016

Power extraction will be fine as is once it is made poison damage. Then the damage will compare to spin to win.

GreenSoup2HoT · April 2016

@Lynx7386 Power extraction gives you Major Brutality. Not empower. Just so you know.

Lynx7386 · April 2016

Yea i know, I was referencing someone else's idea to have it give empower.

GreenSoup2HoT · April 2016

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Yea i know, I was referencing someone else's idea to have it give empower.

o sorry. i took your comment as your idea