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vMA and vDSA loots should drop at Normal
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strikeback1247✭✭✭✭✭
✭It would only be reasonable if nMSA dropped v1 white weapons with this ridiculous difference in difficulty.P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!2 -
Sunburnt_Penguin✭✭✭✭✭I haven't done either yet and I disagree: it gives people something to work towards and forces them to improve their game for the best gear.2 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....Edited by AddictionX on April 16, 2016 10:13AM4 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
Noobplar4 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Sure, let's give everyone the weapons. And while we're at it, give everyone 501 CP. And maxed out gear. And all stuff researched. Let's just hand out fully leveled characters with Grand Overlord Grade 2, all skill lines maxed out and the max amount of skillpoints.
Because working for something in a MMO is something that shouldn't exist right? Effort has not to be rewarded, everyone should just get it because.Susano'o
Zerg Squad4 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
Also,
Loaded question fallacies are particularly effective at derailing rational debates because of their inflammatory nature - the recipient of the loaded question is compelled to defend themselves and may appear flustered or on the back foot.
Edited by AddictionX on April 16, 2016 10:24AM4 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Sure, let's give everyone the weapons. And while we're at it, give everyone 501 CP. And maxed out gear. And all stuff researched. Let's just hand out fully leveled characters with Grand Overlord Grade 2, all skill lines maxed out and the max amount of skillpoints.
Because working for something in a MMO is something that shouldn't exist right? Effort has not to be rewarded, everyone should just get it because.
Sure your rewarded, just think of all of those leaderboard points! (that no one cares about lol) Collecting skyshards is such hard work, even grinding ... and AP farming where overlord is a title... not a weapon.
If you really want to work for something go for korean mmo's There are tons out there, now instead of suggesting extreme hypotheticals, lets get back to the OP ... Let me remind you this post is about vMA weapons.
Please take some time aside to reread the OP post! Thank you!Edited by AddictionX on April 16, 2016 10:31AM1 -
Paulington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
Also,
Loaded question fallacies are particularly effective at derailing rational debates because of their inflammatory nature - the recipient of the loaded question is compelled to defend themselves and may appear flustered or on the back foot.
At risk of sounding /r/iamverysmart, it isn't an appeal to emotion, it's reductio ad absurdum.
Anyway, in MMOs the hardest content drops the best loot, this may be "appeal to tradition" but that is how it is. The people who can complete the hardest content get the best in slot loot. Giving free BiS weapons to those who haven't put in the effort to earn them is unfair to those that do.
This game is 100% completable, even Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, with 100% crafted gear (except Jewellery of course). It just requires a team of skilled players. These weapons do give an advantage but only to people who are already fully capable of completing the content.
The better players get the better loot, as it has been and always will be in MMORPGs.3 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
Completing nMSA is like grinding a character. so just make this vendor sell V16 only and there you go. Sry...but i can't take nMSA serious at all...too easy to give good loot at all.Noobplar1 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Paulington wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
Also,
Loaded question fallacies are particularly effective at derailing rational debates because of their inflammatory nature - the recipient of the loaded question is compelled to defend themselves and may appear flustered or on the back foot.
At risk of sounding /r/iamverysmart, it isn't an appeal to emotion, it's reductio ad absurdum.
Anyway, in MMOs the hardest content drops the best loot, this may be "appeal to tradition" but that is how it is. The people who can complete the hardest content get the best in slot loot. Giving free BiS weapons to those who haven't put in the effort to earn them is unfair to those that do.
This game is 100% completable, even Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, with 100% crafted gear (except Jewellery of course). It just requires a team of skilled players. These weapons do give an advantage but only to people who are already fully capable of completing the content.
The better players get the better loot, as it has been and always will be in MMORPGs.
actually not true, the best loot was never BOP in every MMO i played,which made it a decent trade off(you get the achievement,someone else could get the spoils). but that RNG though!Edited by Mojmir on April 16, 2016 10:37AM2 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Paulington wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
Also,
Loaded question fallacies are particularly effective at derailing rational debates because of their inflammatory nature - the recipient of the loaded question is compelled to defend themselves and may appear flustered or on the back foot.
At risk of sounding /r/iamverysmart, it isn't an appeal to emotion, it's reductio ad absurdum.
Anyway, in MMOs the hardest content drops the best loot, this may be "appeal to tradition" but that is how it is. The people who can complete the hardest content get the best in slot loot. Giving free BiS weapons to those who haven't put in the effort to earn them is unfair to those that do.
This game is 100% completable, even Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, with 100% crafted gear (except Jewellery of course). It just requires a team of skilled players. These weapons do give an advantage but only to people who are already fully capable of completing the content.
The better players get the better loot, as it has been and always will be in MMORPGs.
actually not true, the best loot was never BOP in every MMO i played,which made it a decent trade off(you get the achievement,someone else could get the spoils). but thats another issue
1 -
Ariisen✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
You can complete all content in the game with a gold Night Mother Bow\DW or a Torug's Fire\Resto Staff so the weapons are totally something extra only there for people that want to push their build to the extreme, basically, minmaxing purposes.
You need to put something in the game that's hard, to keep people striving for it.
If you let people that just light attack with the bow and spam acid spray have a Maelstrom Bow that's useless, they will still be crappy players, they will still be kicked from groups and they will never learn to play because there's no reason.
You want those good weapons? Practice, know add spawns, take sigils, get used to mechanics, watch videos and put your efforts into it like everyone else.
It's not like vMA it's "crazy hard", it is the first time but after you do it becomes easier and easier.
This "I can't get that, make it easier!" mentality is toxic.
[XBOX ONE - Daggerfall Covenant - EU - CP 600+]
Gamertag: msYuuuMy Veteran Level Toons:
Zemska - Breton NightBlade [DC]
Riiful - Imperial DragonKnight [DC]
Nikole - Breton Sorcerer [DC]
Mashu - Bosmer NightBlade [DC]
Helise - Breton Templar [DC]
Syosetsuka - Imperial Sorcerer [DC]
Majken - Altmer Dragonknight[DC]I'm back after 3 months yoh.2 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭Paulington wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
Also,
Loaded question fallacies are particularly effective at derailing rational debates because of their inflammatory nature - the recipient of the loaded question is compelled to defend themselves and may appear flustered or on the back foot.
At risk of sounding /r/iamverysmart, it isn't an appeal to emotion, it's reductio ad absurdum.
Anyway, in MMOs the hardest content drops the best loot, this may be "appeal to tradition" but that is how it is. The people who can complete the hardest content get the best in slot loot. Giving free BiS weapons to those who haven't put in the effort to earn them is unfair to those that do.
This game is 100% completable, even Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, with 100% crafted gear (except Jewellery of course). It just requires a team of skilled players. These weapons do give an advantage but only to people who are already fully capable of completing the content.
The better players get the better loot, as it has been and always will be in MMORPGs.
You are (in a sense) CORRRECT MY FRIEND! (sorry caps)
You're on the premises that this content fits with the MMO archetype where you know its Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. When this content is not Multiplayer but very much solo. This thread is about vMA, not the Maw of Lorkhaj a kind reminder to you.
Better player(s) better loot? Yep just as it has been in MMORPGs, would not say always though- unless you believe you have powers of the future
in which case you win! Edited by AddictionX on April 16, 2016 10:41AM1 -
Paulington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Paulington wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
Also,
Loaded question fallacies are particularly effective at derailing rational debates because of their inflammatory nature - the recipient of the loaded question is compelled to defend themselves and may appear flustered or on the back foot.
At risk of sounding /r/iamverysmart, it isn't an appeal to emotion, it's reductio ad absurdum.
Anyway, in MMOs the hardest content drops the best loot, this may be "appeal to tradition" but that is how it is. The people who can complete the hardest content get the best in slot loot. Giving free BiS weapons to those who haven't put in the effort to earn them is unfair to those that do.
This game is 100% completable, even Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, with 100% crafted gear (except Jewellery of course). It just requires a team of skilled players. These weapons do give an advantage but only to people who are already fully capable of completing the content.
The better players get the better loot, as it has been and always will be in MMORPGs.
actually not true, the best loot was never BOP in every MMO i played,which made it a decent trade off(you get the achievement,someone else could get the spoils). but that RNG though!
Take a look at WoW, the gold standard of MMOs and if you look every BIS piece is BOP with the odd exception. Compare that to ESO where if you exclude Jewellery due to not being craftable, about 60% of end-game gear is crafted and BIS. The only exceptions are Undaunted gear and Maelstrom weapons the majority of the time.
The best gear needs to be earned, giving it away in normal MA which can be completed with zero CP and white gear really is not a good idea.3 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Paulington wrote: »Paulington wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
Also,
Loaded question fallacies are particularly effective at derailing rational debates because of their inflammatory nature - the recipient of the loaded question is compelled to defend themselves and may appear flustered or on the back foot.
At risk of sounding /r/iamverysmart, it isn't an appeal to emotion, it's reductio ad absurdum.
Anyway, in MMOs the hardest content drops the best loot, this may be "appeal to tradition" but that is how it is. The people who can complete the hardest content get the best in slot loot. Giving free BiS weapons to those who haven't put in the effort to earn them is unfair to those that do.
This game is 100% completable, even Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, with 100% crafted gear (except Jewellery of course). It just requires a team of skilled players. These weapons do give an advantage but only to people who are already fully capable of completing the content.
The better players get the better loot, as it has been and always will be in MMORPGs.
actually not true, the best loot was never BOP in every MMO i played,which made it a decent trade off(you get the achievement,someone else could get the spoils). but that RNG though!
Take a look at WoW, the gold standard of MMOs and if you look every BIS piece is BOP with the odd exception. Compare that to ESO where if you exclude Jewellery due to not being craftable, about 60% of end-game gear is crafted and BIS. The only exceptions are Undaunted gear and Maelstrom weapons the majority of the time.
The best gear needs to be earned, giving it away in normal MA which can be completed with zero CP and white gear really is not a good idea.
UO was what i was thinking, artifact drops were hard to get but they were also vendorable. BiS and for sale,win/win. seriously,after so many runs, how many pcs drop that you dont need or arent BiS and youd have no trouble parting with for coin?Edited by Mojmir on April 16, 2016 10:46AM2 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
You can complete all content in the game with a gold Night Mother Bow\DW or a Torug's Fire\Resto Staff so the weapons are totally something extra only there for people that want to push their build to the extreme, basically, minmaxing purposes.
You need to put something in the game that's hard, to keep people striving for it.
If you let people that just light attack with the bow and spam acid spray have a Maelstrom Bow that's useless, they will still be crappy players, they will still be kicked from groups and they will never learn to play because there's no reason.
You want those good weapons? Practice, know add spawns, take sigils, get used to mechanics, watch videos and put your efforts into it like everyone else.
It's not like vMA it's "crazy hard", it is the first time but after you do it becomes easier and easier.
This "I can't get that, make it easier!" mentality is toxic.
"You can complete all content in the game with a gold Night Mother Bow\DW or a Torug's Fire\Resto Staff so the weapons are totally something extra only there for people that want to push their build to the extreme, basically, minmaxing purposes."
And I say thats cool bro! But why is this relevant?
"You need to put something in the game that's hard, to keep people striving for it.
If you let people that just light attack with the bow and spam acid spray have a Maelstrom Bow that's useless, they will still be crappy players, they will still be kicked from groups and they will never learn to play because there's no reason."
Yep they will still be crappy players, and abide by the consequences of their actions(and judged not by the color of their skin... erm.. weapon/racial/spec choice xD yes im looking at you argonians! dun lie, dun deni, together races shall get better passives im with you!)... so nothing really changes I dont remember when people started caring about pugs. Most dont group with with pugs to begin with. Let them have the weapons
where does this affect you?
"You want those good weapons? Practice, know add spawns, take sigils, get used to mechanics, watch videos and put your efforts into it like everyone else.
It's not like vMA it's "crazy hard", it is the first time but after you do it becomes easier and easier.
This "I can't get that, make it easier!" mentality is toxic."
Hmmm i would say "if you want those high scores" then you practice, know add spawns, take sigils, get used to mechanics, watch videos and put your efforts into it like everyone else.
The suggestion here is that they drop in nMA, the illusion is nerf nerf nerf but really ...nothing is being nerfed(but buffed)... the creatures inside MA are not being made easier has nothing to do with nerfing said content. The content remains the same and challenging, only difference is the weapons will drop in nMA. Edited by AddictionX on April 16, 2016 11:16AM1 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭vMSA will get easier for everyone when they get more CP/experience...so everyone will get their weapons. There's absolutely no need to hand them out for free.Noobplar2 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭vMSA will get easier for everyone when they get more CP/experience...so everyone will get their weapons. There's absolutely no need to hand them out for free.
If say there was a token system would it still be free? Ah im getting off track...
People still bought the DLC, its about 20 bucks USD .... they're still having to complete said solo content so its not free, a lower quality and drop rate like the OP suggested is something I can get behind.
On a side note nothing related to your post but i did not want to make another one soooo...
TANKS can be TANKS and get their weapons! HEALERS can be HEALERS and get their weapons, you can PLAY AS YOU WANT and get your weapons! Cause thats what SOLOING is all about! That (was?
) the core slogan of this MMORPG dont try to fight the POWA!!! The RESISTANCE IS REAL
DONT BOW DOWN TO THE DPS OVERLORDS!Edited by AddictionX on April 16, 2016 11:30AM1 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you can't complete vma then you have little chance of getting the staff enchantments or the axes and daggers to work properly anyway, they require skill and and a bit of knowledge way beyond killing Mr. Skoriak and some crappy argonian mechanic. They would do you less good if you can't complete this mediocre solo trial.PC Master Race
1001CP
8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
Master Angler
Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!1 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »If you can't complete vma then you have little chance of getting the staff enchantments or the axes and daggers to work properly anyway, they require skill and and a bit of knowledge way beyond killing Mr. Skoriak and some crappy argonian mechanic. They would do you less good if you can't complete this mediocre solo trial.
learning the mechanics is by far harder than figuring out how the weapons work. i think part of the problem is, players watch or read a build idea which incorporates said weapon, now they feel like they "need" it to complete the set,even though there is other options usually. i think everyones taking the drops and the arena too seriously.4 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭Paulington wrote: »Paulington wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
Also,
Loaded question fallacies are particularly effective at derailing rational debates because of their inflammatory nature - the recipient of the loaded question is compelled to defend themselves and may appear flustered or on the back foot.
At risk of sounding /r/iamverysmart, it isn't an appeal to emotion, it's reductio ad absurdum.
Anyway, in MMOs the hardest content drops the best loot, this may be "appeal to tradition" but that is how it is. The people who can complete the hardest content get the best in slot loot. Giving free BiS weapons to those who haven't put in the effort to earn them is unfair to those that do.
This game is 100% completable, even Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, with 100% crafted gear (except Jewellery of course). It just requires a team of skilled players. These weapons do give an advantage but only to people who are already fully capable of completing the content.
The better players get the better loot, as it has been and always will be in MMORPGs.
actually not true, the best loot was never BOP in every MMO i played,which made it a decent trade off(you get the achievement,someone else could get the spoils). but that RNG though!
Take a look at WoW, the gold standard of MMOs .
Im sorry thats what you think I don't want to burst those childhood fantasies but WoW is not gods gift to mankind...
There are tons of mmo's ive played through out the past decade and a half. WoW fits a certain genre of fantasy and role playing you forget that MMO range into Action, Fantasy, Racing, Sci-Fi, Shooter....and Sports, Strategy, Arena Browser, Facebook(lol yep) and.....MOBA, Mobile, Sandbox,TCG/CCG.... and idk cant think of any more off the top of my head.
Edited by AddictionX on April 16, 2016 11:49AM1 -
strikeback1247✭✭✭✭✭
✭AddictionX wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »Hmm so you dont call for a vMA nerf and they still disagree with you .... Looks like they're afraid that people might have equal gear? They insist it wont make a big difference yet... they themselves spent hours in there to get that "difference"
These people insist that weapons wont help you be "better" yet defend that you should work for the said best weapon in the game. So why not give them the weapon it wont help them right? And wont affect you in the first place since you're "good" and the rest is "bad".
So whats wrong with giving everyone the weapons? All I see as a counter argument is pride, and any argument based on that is null and void. I would ask what are they so afraid of?
The OP doesnt care about leaderboards, so its not affecting your hardcore circle of players or anything like that. He just want the weapons to drop at nMA, so i say why not.
These people argue that would stop people from trying out vMA, well if it does then it proves it was not fun to begin with, and poorly designed with lots of lag...you guys keep you're "hardcore" content but everyone would have access to the weapons? A win win. This solo trial is really just used as an ego booster. I see here many egos being hurt if everyone got a weapon ....
Ok, so just add a vendor which sells all ingame-items in gold-quality for 1 Gold. Everyone can have all gear he wants and now all are equally equipped, does it sound good to you?
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
Also,
Loaded question fallacies are particularly effective at derailing rational debates because of their inflammatory nature - the recipient of the loaded question is compelled to defend themselves and may appear flustered or on the back foot.
I also like to use fancy big words to sound more photosynthesis.
P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!0 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭The weapons there are like 2% better compared to a nirnhoned weapon.
If you can't do it now, 2% won't help you.2 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭The weapons there are like 2% better compared to a nirnhoned weapon.
If you can't do it now, 2% won't help you.2 -
AOECAPS✭✭✭✭No get better. Why should you be able to get master or maelstrom weapons in facerolls? Weapons should be BOP there is a save function for maelstrom now you can go through it at your own pace. If you don't want to take the time to beat it than go craft you a weapon. The pve content in this game is already easy enough nothing to difficult about anything at this point.1
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LegendaryArcher✭✭✭✭Well, I'd already be happy if vMA dropped vMA loot (weapons), which it doesn't. Only well-sh*tted helmets.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates2
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Oh_Skrivva✭✭✭Doesn't matter to me either way. Since they are now selling boss sets from vendor (which I do not approve of) so why not. But if they do decide to add it to MA but with a lower rng drop. People will still not be able to get it cause rng sucks in this game. Ran vMA 60 times and still haven't got the weapon I want not even one with a bad trait. Imagine trying to get it with a lower chance of rng.Costco member
Message brought to you by Cat Queefs Emporium3 -
damtotb16_ESO✭✭✭tokens, drops on easy mode etc c'mon silver spooners some effort and get it as intended...1 -
Dunkmeister✭✭✭
Tokens is not "silver spoons". It's a failsafe from having to run it 500 times while a first timer gets it on their first try. That has nothing to do with effort and everything to do with burnout.damtotb16_ESO wrote: »tokens, drops on easy mode etc c'mon silver spooners some effort and get it as intended...
Dunkmeister - DK Firemage AD NA Server
PVE Achievement Collector2 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »
TANKS can be TANKS and get their weapons! HEALERS can be HEALERS and get their weapons, you can PLAY AS YOU WANT and get your weapons! Cause thats what SOLOING is all about! That (was?) the core slogan of this MMORPG dont try to fight the POWA!!! The RESISTANCE IS REAL
DONT BOW DOWN TO THE DPS OVERLORDS!
Maelstrom resto is actually underwhelming compared to destro/dw/2h/bow. It only adds crit and the enchant is not super useful (it has 4 seconds cooldown). Masters resto would be so much better than Maelstrom resto if it was scaled to vr16.
And I wont even say anything about the shield...
And THE best healing gear (spell power cure+Kena shoulder or mask, Twilight remedy, worrm cult) can be farmed in healing role just fine.
And even dps weapons are only good for people who are close to the upper limits of dps on their character. Give it to a random that cannot get past first stage of vMA and struggling in nMA and NOTHING will change for him. Literally. If you cant beat vMA and dont believe me, go on pts and take all the golden vMA weapons and try to beat it.
But the rewards will lose their reward value if you just give them away, and in any game there should be goals and rewards.
Though I think that loot system in vMA must be reworked.Edited by LadyNalcarya on April 16, 2016 9:20PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
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