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The Design of PVP
Anti_Virus
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TL;DR at the end.
So I want to talk about PVP and all the ban-aid fixes that has come to the game.
I'll get this out the way now. The removal of aoe caps is the biggest factor in cyrodils downfall.
Now lets look at the band-aid fixes shall we? They added a skill called magicka detonation a skill used as a deterrent for enemies grouping up however it has received many complaints and criticisms by the community due to its effective use OUTSIDE of 'zerg busting'. We also have a set called Vicious Death which again is most effective at taking out large groups but can be just as effective against smaller groups. Now in the next patch stam builds will be getting a 'zerg buster' skill in the 2h skill line.
Here's the problem. This games pvp was designed around large group fighting when they removed aoe caps (which I believe is why the servers lag) it made pvp less enjoyable massive groups would collide causing massive server lag smaller groups(like myself) couldn't compete with these large groups so these 'band-aid' fixes were introduced
PVP went from requiring some skill to now pressing one button and killing multiple people in the blink of an eye which is not healthy for pvp at all, as if all magic and stam builds will slot zerg buster skill on all 10 slots of there bar including and ultimate and just mash their face on their keyboards to see which group dies first.
In all honesty I want these skills removed from the game I believe siege weapons should be the deterrent against large players NOT skill/sets just like real war in ancient times they used siege weapons to take out large groups of people.
I get it not everyone likes to play in large groups(including me) but you have to remember that this game was DESIGNED with large skill battles similar to how medieval battle were(without the magic) but small scale pvpers are getting battlegrounds/arenas. PVE is already mindfully easy don't make pvp into a one button slaughter fest.
TL;DR: Away with these zerg buster skills, it's unhealthy to the game one player shouldn't be able to kill 30+ with one button press. Seige weapons should do that. PLEASE don't make PVP into a brain dead keyboard mash fest of who can blow up X group first!
So I want to talk about PVP and all the ban-aid fixes that has come to the game.
I'll get this out the way now. The removal of aoe caps is the biggest factor in cyrodils downfall.
Now lets look at the band-aid fixes shall we? They added a skill called magicka detonation a skill used as a deterrent for enemies grouping up however it has received many complaints and criticisms by the community due to its effective use OUTSIDE of 'zerg busting'. We also have a set called Vicious Death which again is most effective at taking out large groups but can be just as effective against smaller groups. Now in the next patch stam builds will be getting a 'zerg buster' skill in the 2h skill line.
Here's the problem. This games pvp was designed around large group fighting when they removed aoe caps (which I believe is why the servers lag) it made pvp less enjoyable massive groups would collide causing massive server lag smaller groups(like myself) couldn't compete with these large groups so these 'band-aid' fixes were introduced
PVP went from requiring some skill to now pressing one button and killing multiple people in the blink of an eye which is not healthy for pvp at all, as if all magic and stam builds will slot zerg buster skill on all 10 slots of there bar including and ultimate and just mash their face on their keyboards to see which group dies first.
In all honesty I want these skills removed from the game I believe siege weapons should be the deterrent against large players NOT skill/sets just like real war in ancient times they used siege weapons to take out large groups of people.
I get it not everyone likes to play in large groups(including me) but you have to remember that this game was DESIGNED with large skill battles similar to how medieval battle were(without the magic) but small scale pvpers are getting battlegrounds/arenas. PVE is already mindfully easy don't make pvp into a one button slaughter fest.
TL;DR: Away with these zerg buster skills, it's unhealthy to the game one player shouldn't be able to kill 30+ with one button press. Seige weapons should do that. PLEASE don't make PVP into a brain dead keyboard mash fest of who can blow up X group first!
Power Wealth And Influence.
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flguy147ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Agree 100%, they are now doing bandaid fixes with gear and abilities to try and fix lag which the game was marketed and advertised as these big massive Siege PVP battles.Edited by flguy147ub17_ESO on April 14, 2016 11:57PM3 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »Agree 100%, they are now doing bandaid fixes with gear and abilities to try and fix lag which the game was marketed and advertised as these big massive Siege PVP battles.
Yep. I can see this games pvp going down into the drain with these changesPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Cazic✭✭✭✭✭Agreed. PvP is like...
Mortal Kombat: Royal Rumble
The whole patching in "skills" to address a major concern just feels really cheesy. Proxy det and Vicious Death are ultra lame. No skill involved just easy mode band-aid fixes.
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flguy147ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Agreed. PvP is like...
Mortal Kombat: Royal Rumble
The whole patching in "skills" to address a major concern just feels really cheesy. Proxy det and Vicious Death are ultra lame. No skill involved just easy mode band-aid fixes.
Yeah, nothing like a guy chasing another guy cause he has proxy det on and the guy running away but he is running towards you so you start trying to run away but the proxy det gets him only to cause VD to proc to kill you. Its like a game of chase sometimes. Prox Det and VD is like being a kid and running away from the guy with cooties.Edited by flguy147ub17_ESO on April 15, 2016 12:18AM2 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm another post about how to fix PvP from a "expert".
Im no "expert" so you can leave with your snotty attitude.
I just want whats best for the health of pvp. If you are a brain dead proxy det spammer this thread is just for you.Edited by Anti_Virus on April 15, 2016 12:27AMPower Wealth And Influence.8 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭At this point I think most the Cyrodiil players, and GW2 WvW players have given up and are just waiting for Camelot Unchained 3way seige warfare. if anyone doesnt know, its made by the guy who created the 3way seige battle of realm vs realm with Darkage of Camelot1
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flguy147ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »At this point I think most the Cyrodiil players, and GW2 WvW players have given up and are just waiting for Camelot Unchained 3way seige warfare. if anyone doesnt know, its made by the guy who created the 3way seige battle of realm vs realm with Darkage of Camelot
Yep, i no longer have my PC anymore and now just have a PS4 but am thinking about buying a new PC just for this game. If anybody knows PVP its him. Also the amount of classes is amazing and i really like some of the classes as well. We only have 4 here haha. I wonder if ZOS realizes this and just folded the table on PVP but that will only be on 1 of the 3 platforms for ESO.1 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »At this point I think most the Cyrodiil players, and GW2 WvW players have given up and are just waiting for Camelot Unchained 3way seige warfare. if anyone doesnt know, its made by the guy who created the 3way seige battle of realm vs realm with Darkage of Camelot
Yep, i no longer have my PC anymore and now just have a PS4 but am thinking about buying a new PC just for this game. If anybody knows PVP its him. Also the amount of classes is amazing and i really like some of the classes as well. We only have 4 here haha. I wonder if ZOS realizes this and just folded the table on PVP but that will only be on 1 of the 3 platforms for ESO.
Yup, 30 classses so far (10 non mirred for each side) plus each realm will have a crafter class that creates all gear in the game and even builds all the structures in the world. Think Cyrodiil but 4 X bigger as a triangle and each realm has their capital city at one end.
The best part is all progression comes from RVR (alliance vs alliance) no grinding creatures or doing quests for exp. Creatures will only be there for crafting materials and to make the world alive1 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShadowStarKing wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm another post about how to fix PvP from a "expert".
Im no "expert" so you can leave with your snotty attitude.
I just want whats best for the health of pvp. If you are a brain dead proxy det spammer this thread is just for you.
Despite his approach his perspective is similar to mine. People are ALWAYS complaining about SOMETHING in PvP.
"Zergs are ruining PvP do something Zenimax!"
"One person should not be able to stop zergs alone do something Zenimax!"
So apparently it doesn't matter what people do they will either complain zergs are either too op or too vulnerable. So instead of people always complaining about zergs why not offer a solution for Zenimax to consider that makes them tolerable for at least the majority of the PvP playerbase?Edited by UltimaJoe777 on April 15, 2016 1:14AMGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
Anzriel✭✭✭✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ShadowStarKing wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm another post about how to fix PvP from a "expert".
Im no "expert" so you can leave with your snotty attitude.
I just want whats best for the health of pvp. If you are a brain dead proxy det spammer this thread is just for you.
Despite his approach his perspective is similar to mine. People are ALWAYS complaining about SOMETHING in PvP.
"Zergs are ruining PvP do something Zenimax!"
"One person should not be able to stop zergs alone do something Zenimax!"
So apparently it doesn't matter what people do they will either complain zergs are either too op or too vulnerable. So instead of people always complaining about zergs why not offer a solution for Zenimax to consider that makes them tolerable for at least the majority of the PvP playerbase?
Or, you know, the "pvp playerbase" isn't a hive mind where they share all one opinion. The "majority" simply want AoE caps removed so that the band-aid fixes aren't needed. Hence why the AoE cap pole had something like 80%+ against implementing them in the first place.
This person's opinion actually seems to be different and want only siege to kill groups. Personally I disagree with that, and I think most do, not that it really matters one way or the other.1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ShadowStarKing wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm another post about how to fix PvP from a "expert".
Im no "expert" so you can leave with your snotty attitude.
I just want whats best for the health of pvp. If you are a brain dead proxy det spammer this thread is just for you.
Despite his approach his perspective is similar to mine. People are ALWAYS complaining about SOMETHING in PvP.
"Zergs are ruining PvP do something Zenimax!"
"One person should not be able to stop zergs alone do something Zenimax!"
So apparently it doesn't matter what people do they will either complain zergs are either too op or too vulnerable. So instead of people always complaining about zergs why not offer a solution for Zenimax to consider that makes them tolerable for at least the majority of the PvP playerbase?
Nope, I AM saying that one person shouldn't be able to take out zergs, this game was designed around large scale PVP and all these skills/sets aren't nessisary for the health of the game.
Its the streamers and the 1vXers that QQ about not being able to solo play in a game DESIGNED FOR large scale combat.
Complaining about Zergs in this game is just plain dumb when again the game was designed around that playstyle. Remember 1.5 and earlier? Before proxy det nonsense, before VD, and mist of all NO AOE CAPS pvp was great (minus elder robes online and god like Magic DKs)Edited by Anti_Virus on April 15, 2016 3:07AMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Proxy needs to go. VD needs to be burnt at the stake. DOWN WITH AOE CAPS! Or at least implement some other better solution...(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz2 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Everytime some offers suggestions people focus only at "we need to fix it"
And reply with only "yet another QQ thread"
I agree with OP. I add
Make the groups inside Cyro to be 6man only. Less people stucking at ONE crown. Less people putting proxy on simultaniously at the command of a 24man raid leader.
More battalions. Less zergs.
Remove Forward camps for Defenders within a radious from their Keeps. If it's UA it's UA.
Disable Forward Camps for attackers after UA.
Don't look down on our suggestions unless you have a suggestion. Otherwise go spam somewhere else your usual nonsense.Edited by GeorgeBlack on April 15, 2016 2:57AM0 -
nine9six✭✭✭✭✭
✭So we could have constructive debates such as this.Wake up, we're here. Why are you shaking? Are you ok? Wake up...0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Everytime some offers suggestions people focus only at "we need to fix it"
And reply with only "yet another QQ thread"
I agree with OP. I add
Make the groups inside Cyro to be 6man only. Less people stucking at ONE crown. Less people putting proxy on simultaniously at the command of a 24man raid leader.
More battalions. Less zergs.
Remove Forward camps for Defenders within a radious from their Keeps. If it's UA it's UA.
Disable Forward Camps for attackers after UA.
Don't look down on our suggestions unless you have a suggestion. Otherwise go spam somewhere else your usual nonsense.
Thank you for your input.
Most ppl on the forums are toxic. Lol
Pretty interesting ideas you have but what does UA mean?Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShadowStarKing wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »Everytime some offers suggestions people focus only at "we need to fix it"
And reply with only "yet another QQ thread"
I agree with OP. I add
Make the groups inside Cyro to be 6man only. Less people stucking at ONE crown. Less people putting proxy on simultaniously at the command of a 24man raid leader.
More battalions. Less zergs.
Remove Forward camps for Defenders within a radious from their Keeps. If it's UA it's UA.
Disable Forward Camps for attackers after UA.
Don't look down on our suggestions unless you have a suggestion. Otherwise go spam somewhere else your usual nonsense.
Thank you for your input.
Many ppl on the forums are toxic. Lol
Pretty interesting ideas you have but what does UA mean?
Yeah they are but I am not among them. I seriously always see constant complaints about PvP and when they try to come up with a fix that both helps the issue and doesn't cause extra lag that just gets complained about too. In all honestly the PvP community will probably never be happy until Zenimax can fix the lag, which may take the release of every DLC they plan to release, aka years. Once they stop working on DLCs they can devote their time solely to patchwork.
And before you say anything extra lag would be on top of whatever comes with the DLC lolEdited by UltimaJoe777 on April 15, 2016 3:09AMGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ShadowStarKing wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm another post about how to fix PvP from a "expert".
Im no "expert" so you can leave with your snotty attitude.
I just want whats best for the health of pvp. If you are a brain dead proxy det spammer this thread is just for you.
Despite his approach his perspective is similar to mine. People are ALWAYS complaining about SOMETHING in PvP.
"Zergs are ruining PvP do something Zenimax!"
"One person should not be able to stop zergs alone do something Zenimax!"
So apparently it doesn't matter what people do they will either complain zergs are either too op or too vulnerable. So instead of people always complaining about zergs why not offer a solution for Zenimax to consider that makes them tolerable for at least the majority of the PvP playerbase?
You're better than this Joe.
PvP worked fine with 100s on screen before. There is a happy medium somewhere and it's not 15v15 for siege battles.1 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ShadowStarKing wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm another post about how to fix PvP from a "expert".
Im no "expert" so you can leave with your snotty attitude.
I just want whats best for the health of pvp. If you are a brain dead proxy det spammer this thread is just for you.
Despite his approach his perspective is similar to mine. People are ALWAYS complaining about SOMETHING in PvP.
"Zergs are ruining PvP do something Zenimax!"
"One person should not be able to stop zergs alone do something Zenimax!"
So apparently it doesn't matter what people do they will either complain zergs are either too op or too vulnerable. So instead of people always complaining about zergs why not offer a solution for Zenimax to consider that makes them tolerable for at least the majority of the PvP playerbase?
You're better than this Joe.
PvP worked fine with 100s on screen before. There is a happy medium somewhere and it's not 15v15 for siege battles.
I never said I agreed with his phrasing lol but you gotta admit there's an awful lot of duck duck moose going on. I know the PvP community wants AoE caps removed and all but the lag's gotta go first.Edited by UltimaJoe777 on April 15, 2016 3:23AMGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »WalkingLegacy wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ShadowStarKing wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm another post about how to fix PvP from a "expert".
Im no "expert" so you can leave with your snotty attitude.
I just want whats best for the health of pvp. If you are a brain dead proxy det spammer this thread is just for you.
Despite his approach his perspective is similar to mine. People are ALWAYS complaining about SOMETHING in PvP.
"Zergs are ruining PvP do something Zenimax!"
"One person should not be able to stop zergs alone do something Zenimax!"
So apparently it doesn't matter what people do they will either complain zergs are either too op or too vulnerable. So instead of people always complaining about zergs why not offer a solution for Zenimax to consider that makes them tolerable for at least the majority of the PvP playerbase?
You're better than this Joe.
PvP worked fine with 100s on screen before. There is a happy medium somewhere and it's not 15v15 for siege battles.
I never said I agreed with his phrasing lol but you gotta admit there's an awful lot of duck duck moose going on. I know the PvP community wants AoE caps removed and all but the lag's gotta go first.
I believe the lag is because of the removal of aoe caps (the server has to caluclate dmg of other targets after 6 then server latency, then caluclate cc effects, etc.) and now everyone Is spamming zerg buster skills.
Btw I enjoy both PVP and PVE, but I happem to enjoy more PVP though.
Edited by Anti_Virus on April 15, 2016 3:28AMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShadowStarKing wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »WalkingLegacy wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ShadowStarKing wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm another post about how to fix PvP from a "expert".
Im no "expert" so you can leave with your snotty attitude.
I just want whats best for the health of pvp. If you are a brain dead proxy det spammer this thread is just for you.
Despite his approach his perspective is similar to mine. People are ALWAYS complaining about SOMETHING in PvP.
"Zergs are ruining PvP do something Zenimax!"
"One person should not be able to stop zergs alone do something Zenimax!"
So apparently it doesn't matter what people do they will either complain zergs are either too op or too vulnerable. So instead of people always complaining about zergs why not offer a solution for Zenimax to consider that makes them tolerable for at least the majority of the PvP playerbase?
You're better than this Joe.
PvP worked fine with 100s on screen before. There is a happy medium somewhere and it's not 15v15 for siege battles.
I never said I agreed with his phrasing lol but you gotta admit there's an awful lot of duck duck moose going on. I know the PvP community wants AoE caps removed and all but the lag's gotta go first.
I believe the lag is because of the removal of aoe caps (the server has to caluclate dmg of other targets after 6 then server latency, then caluclate cc effects, etc.) and now everyone Is spamming zerg buster skills.
Btw I enjoy both PVP and PVE, but I happem to enjoy more PVP though.
If AoE caps were removed then they actually contribute to the issue. Eh everything will get worked out eventually. 3 years later we'll look back at this rocky road and laugh Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy1 -
flguy147ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I dont like some things in the current meta but that is personal opinion. But the 1 thing pretty much every PVP player agrees that Lag is the biggest priority. You can have the best PVP design in history but if you lag its not fun.0
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UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »I dont like some things in the current meta but that is personal opinion. But the 1 thing pretty much every PVP player agrees that Lag is the biggest priority. You can have the best PVP design in history but if you lag its not fun.
Zenimax agrees, but it's no easy fix. If it were it'd be fixed by now lolGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Watch a video of a PvP raid. As soon as the zerg nentality kicks in take notes, and remove these factors. Purge? Barrier? I want my individual skill and my synergy with my friend to be the reason why I win. Not cause the raid leader used barrier and the healer keeps purging.
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Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Watch a video of a PvP raid. As soon as the zerg nentality kicks in take notes, and remove these factors. Purge? Barrier? I want my individual skill and my synergy with my friend to be the reason why I win. Not cause the raid leader used barrier and the healer keeps purging.
Exactly! Just because you are in a group doesn't mean it should be easy mode.
My cyrodil dream is this: Heavy armor front line DKs charging into battle.
Sorcs right behind them streaking through the front lines against their enemies providing ranged support.
NBs taking out threatning targets ( other nightblades, templars)
Templars providing support to the team with heals and charging into battle with their aedric spears leaving their house
Power Wealth And Influence.1