Account sharing?

myrrrorb14_ESO · April 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

So, a married couple - for whom community property rules ostensibly apply - can't use the same ESO account? I mean they own everything jointly.

This makes no sense to me whatsoever...

As an alt-o-holic married to another alt-o-holic, we each have and jealously guard our two subbed accounts....

I imagine that is quite common. You get to actually play together, which is awesome! Can't get me gf to play

Makes me wonder about kids though. I know growing up, I would play the same games as my brother. Even used his characters a few times and I would get him through areas he had trouble with.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

ThePMSBeast wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Changing your video card shouldnt have any effect on that account verification email. It just looks at your IP. I comepletly rebuilt my pc even reinstalled windows and it still didnt ask me to verify. Only when I tried to login from a different area did it send it. Like when I was visiting a friend and used his wifi to play.

This does happen and not with just TESO but also Steam. I put in a loaner video card when mine died and was waiting on a replacement. I was asked to verify the device i was on with ESO as did steam. Once my card came in i put that in and yup, re-verify once again lol . I could see a new OS or something like that but yeah, changing video cards does prompt it.

Ive never used Steam but it doesnt seem to be happening to me at least on ESO.

TequilaFire · April 2016

Sharing with kids and brothers/household members is innocent enough and hard to control.
Really don't think that is what they have in mind when enforcing account sharing.

Ritzey01 · April 2016

If my Wife or Son want to play a toon on my account while i am not playing, why shouldnt they be allowed to? This is the one rule for any MMO i have always hated and i think is down right wrong! But i bought a second account, to please the powers that be, for my wife. She didnt play long, doesnt like the limited buttons and movement. So now i have two accounts because i couldnt let her try it out for a bit on my account. This is just plain stupid!

P.S. the 2 accounts is nice when i am out farming though. When my packs get full i just mail stuff to the other account and then return it all later. Saves me the 10k crowns for needing the 2 assistants.

ContraTempo · April 2016

TequilaFire wrote: »

They can not tell if wifey is playing alt #2 on the same computer or console that you use.
Only if played on the same account on a different device.

Client doesn't take fingerprints.
Not yet! lol

Conflict there would be you fighting her for playtime!

But if you are using any voice chat it will be obvious. And unless you specifically warn her about it, she might say something even on text chat.
HangDog123: Hey, KI, good to see you again. You got my armor set ready yet?
KillerInstinctIzMe: Uh, I think you want to talk to my husband. I am just playing a character on his account.
HangDog123: Oh? Well then tell him he needs to send me that armor today and for free or I will report him for account sharing! I own you now!

Note that these are made up names; any resemblance to real players is coincidental.

ContraTempo · April 2016

So how about 2 people sharing one computer, but with separate accounts? In theory the game is FTP once you buy the game so what if a couple shared a computer and copy of the game but set up 2 accounts (assuming that is possible)?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

ContraTempo wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

They can not tell if wifey is playing alt #2 on the same computer or console that you use.
Only if played on the same account on a different device.

Client doesn't take fingerprints.
Not yet! lol

Conflict there would be you fighting her for playtime!

But if you are using any voice chat it will be obvious. And unless you specifically warn her about it, she might say something even on text chat.
HangDog123: Hey, KI, good to see you again. You got my armor set ready yet?
KillerInstinctIzMe: Uh, I think you want to talk to my husband. I am just playing a character on his account.
HangDog123: Oh? Well then tell him he needs to send me that armor today and for free or I will report him for account sharing! I own you now!

Note that these are made up names; any resemblance to real players is coincidental.

This is most likely why they take it on a case by case basis. They dont care if you and your wife both play the same account.

TequilaFire · April 2016

In my case I have 4 accounts 1 PC and 3 PS4 in the house.
It would not be the best move to advertise playing on same account I agree.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · April 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

As an alt-o-holic married to another alt-o-holic, we each have and jealously guard our two subbed accounts....

AHA!

I didn't think of it that way. My husband is 67 and missed the gamer craze by a couple of decades. LOL!

However, he's absolutely cool with my gaming and is interested enough to ask questions. He looks at my nerding out over games the same way he looks at his sisters nerding out over football. He'll listen politely and try not to giggle.

He still calls WoW "Warquest" and now refers to Elder Scrolls Online as "Seniors Gone Wild".

Ritzey01 · April 2016

ContraTempo wrote: »

So how about 2 people sharing one computer, but with separate accounts? In theory the game is FTP once you buy the game so what if a couple shared a computer and copy of the game but set up 2 accounts (assuming that is possible)?

Have a have 2 game codes to get two accounts.

UrQuan · April 2016

ContraTempo wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hi everyone, please remember to keep any discussion civil and constructive. It's fine to critique, debate, and disagree - but it's important to be respectful of each other, and the forum rules.

UrQuan wrote: »

So... this thread got re-opened? Does this mean that it is OK to ask questions about what is and isn't allowed under the Terms of Service and the rationale behind them? Because that's what was going on here when the thread got locked.

Generally speaking, it is acceptable to ask questions about the TOS and the forum rules. However, the query can't be tied explicitly or implicitly to a specific incident. This thread was locked for the latter, and we were also getting a large number of threads explicitly discussing the ban at the time.

AFAIK *this* thread was never locked (could have happened overnight as I did sleep for a few hours, LoL). A similar one was, for naming names and details in an incident. I started this to be a general discussion of the issue, not single out individuals (user or ZOS employee). Of course, I can't control the comments of others.

It was locked by a mod (I can't remember who - the locking comment is now gone) and then later reopened with this post.

It didn't stay locked all that long - probably only an hour or two. It was locked while I was at work yesterday, and by the time I got home from work it had been reopened. I didn't think it should have been locked in the first place (because of exactly what you state: that it was a general discussion of the issue and not singling out any individuals), but now that @ZOS_AlanG has clarified, I understand the reasoning behind locking it, and behind reopening it.

UrQuan · April 2016

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

He still calls WoW "Warquest" and now refers to Elder Scrolls Online as "Seniors Gone Wild".

This is literally the best thing ever.

rotaugen454 · April 2016

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

mrs_gibbs wrote: »

It seems ridiculous that a husband and wife, or siblings couldn't each make characters on the same account. I had no idea this was against the rules, and I know people who do this.

Wait.

So, a married couple - for whom community property rules ostensibly apply - can't use the same ESO account? I mean they own everything jointly.

This makes no sense to me whatsoever...

I hadn't even thought of this. I don't have to worry about my son's account, as he is an avid gamer. He's actually more likely to run ahead of us on quests. I only have to worry that my wife's characrer will get out of phase with mine and we won't see each other. We're both level 10 on the characters we use together (her only character, my lowest one by far), so its not like I would be power leveling. If they could put in some kind of "party leader sets what stage a quest is at", even this wouldn't be an issue. That's the one thing making questing together difficult, and also difficult to do online with my friends who are are all different spots in quests.

IrishGirlGamer · April 2016

Sypher wrote: »

I admitted my fault.

Went through the same appeal processes that everyone goes through.

Got a second chance.

Streamer Privledge? Not really. Another player who isn't a streamer got unbanned within the same time frame and was under the same circumstances.

I apologize and will abide by the TOS.

What more can you do?

I never watched your stream until yesterday, when a link was posted on this forum. I caught it right as you were preparing your appeal. I liked how you didn't argue your "streamer" position, even through chat was telling you to do so. You admitted what you did, explained what you did and apologized.

Honestly, I can't believe Zenimax would treat anyone else difference who did the same thing. Now, if someone had come off from an entitled, "you owe me this" position ... results might have varied.

ContraTempo · April 2016

IMO a second chance is reasonable, if someone can make a case that they were not using account sharing for nefarious purposes.

Nor do I have a problem with someone who is valuable to the community and/or to ZoS getting extra consideration. They give more, they get more. And given that ZoS is a business I don't take issue with them granting exceptions based partly on what is best for them financially.

Sometimes "treat everyone the same" is actually unfair or unrealistic as it devalues the contributions (time effort, and money) someone has made, or ignores the intent and nature of the violation. Of course, I'm talking about exceptions, not the base rules we are all expected to follow.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

ContraTempo wrote: »

IMO a second chance is reasonable, if someone can make a case that they were not using account sharing for nefarious purposes.

Nor do I have a problem with someone who is valuable to the community and/or to ZoS getting extra consideration. They give more, they get more. And given that ZoS is a business I don't take issue with them granting exceptions based partly on what is best for them financially.

Sometimes "treat everyone the same" is actually unfair or unrealistic as it devalues the contributions (time effort, and money) someone has made, or ignores the intent and nature of the violation. Of course, I'm talking about exceptions, not the base rules we are all expected to follow.

Third chance. Just so we are factual here.

Komma · April 2016

How do you judge the value of a customer?

Famous, giving you free advertisement even though they receive way more from it than they bring you?

Ingame realm leaders who help their alliance to victory and insure enjoyment for hundreds/thousands of players a night with nothing to gain but self satisfaction?

Guild leaders who have the daunting task of managing online and offline activity and putting together events to ensure the enjoyment of hundreds of people throughout the week, managing the bank, ensuring the guild has a trader and giving members a home to insure they feel welcome at no gain other than self satisfaction?

Many people jump up to help lead groups in cyrodiil with no gain but helping their alliance.

Many people take a PUG through trials.

Where does one draw the line on who can break rules and who cant?

There needs to be rules set in place for first time offenders, like a 24 hour ban with warning and so on so that this never happens again. Its bad for ZOS and bad for the community imo.

Universe · April 2016

This was a very bad public relations move by ZOS with all due respect.
While I agree with the statement that sometimes a person deserves a second chance but to actually give someone a second chance just because he's a known streamer and even confess about it on public forum ?

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against this streamer and I do enjoy his videos from time to time, but this case represents a new kind of hypocrisy...

Anyone deserve the same treatment, whoever they are...
I went to search on google and I noticed a few well known cases of streamers of other mmos who got banned but they remained banned.
Everyone should be equal.
If anything else is suggested, the ToS are violated by the company itself.

I'm happy that sypher got unbanned but the reason why ZOS unbanned him is wrong.

Khaos_Bane · April 2016

TequilaFire wrote: »

Sharing with kids and brothers/household members is innocent enough and hard to control.
Really don't think that is what they have in mind when enforcing account sharing.

Right, but rumor has it some of the ZoS employees go a over-the-top sometimes. People on all sides need to be reasonable, JFC this is a video game.

rotaugen454 · April 2016

Lord wrote: »

This was a very bad public relations move by ZOS with all due respect.
While I agree with the statement that sometimes a person deserves a second chance but to actually give someone a second chance just because he's a known streamer and even confess about it on public forum ?
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against this streamer and I do enjoy his videos from time to time, but this case represents a new kind of hypocrisy...

Anyone deserve the same treatment, whoever they are...
I went to search on google and I noticed a few well known cases of streamers of other mmos who got banned but they remained banned.
Everyone should be equal.
If anything else is suggested, the ToS are violated by the company itself.

I'm happy that sypher got unbanned but the reason why ZOS unbanned him is wrong.

But are the reasons they were kept out just what THEY say? There could be more to it than you know.

Minno · April 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

mrs_gibbs wrote: »

Instead why not just punish the very few people who do exploit this, ie:
Gold Farmers/Sellers

Account Hacking

Don't punish everyone because there are a few baddies.

The interesting thing is many of the streamers take money then have "raffles" for in-game gold. I would like to zos to explain how that is any different from gold farming. The major issue that someone who has been clearly violating the rules on multiple times keeps getting breaks while people with less offenses don't. It displays zos' lack of integrity as individuals and as a company.

People arent rewarded in game money from the raffles. They are completely separate from each other.

Why you trying to link Sypher to TOS breaking activities?!

I never said sypher nor did I say tos don't place words in my mouth. I know what I said; I am very particular with my words.

These sites and services are not for use as corporate, business, commercial, or income seeking activities.
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct

It goes far deeper then that.

Read up on Copyright Law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act
http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf

All these streamers are literally walking lawsuits waiting to happen. Unless you have a letter in writing from the game publisher granting you a license to stream that content, you are violating Copyright Law and can be sued at any time. Its really crazy the liability they have opened themselves up to.

who knows, "shrugs" ZOS's legal team could be waiting till the game is finished, then file lawsuits against all the streamers to extract money from them on the grounds of Copyright...why not...the law says they have exclusive rights to that content including profiting off it...it would be well within their rights to...

if your a streamer i would suggest talking to a Copyright Attorney...if you don't have written permission its almost a forgone conclusion your violating Copyright and are liable if you were to be sued...i'd do everything i could to avoid potential litigation...

In some countries, the TOS may not apply as a binding legal contract. Since most legal contracts require you have the ability to negotiate changing parts of the document so that both parties agree.

ESO TOS, after rereading quickly, says you agree to forgo this legal negotiating right.

In general, these quick TOS agreements really need a revision and review against an updated Gamer/digital-consumer Bill of Rights.

ContraTempo · April 2016

Komma wrote: »

There needs to be rules set in place for first time offenders, like a 24 hour ban with warning and so on so that this never happens again. Its bad for ZOS and bad for the community imo.

I would say that is a reasonable rule of thumb. I rather like it as a guideline. If someone just did not read the TOS closely enough they don't lose their account over a mistake. But I also think it needs to be case-by-case. Consider this:

The guildmaster getting banned when trader bids are due. That punishes 499 other people as well. Maybe delayed punishment is best there.
The malicious person who really created a problem, say by broadcasting her logon info in a public forum for troublemakers to use to screw with the game. A permanent ban makes sense for that.
The kid who logged into his mom's account without her knowledge. Why ban the mom, provided she takes steps to keep Jr. out of her account?
The game review team who are using their access to write a review of the game. A normal business function that helps ESO. Also, any ban would likely mean bad press. Just request that they let ZoS know ahead of time if they need to do it again.

One size does not fit all.

God_flakes · April 2016

I'm so glad my husband doesn't play. I couldn't get away with half the crap I get away with.

Ysne58 · April 2016

That may have been poorly worded on the part of ZOS. I do like that the appeal process was also put in that post.

CaptainBeerDude · April 2016

Rylana wrote: »

Honestly this reeks of favoritism to me. I know at least two people in game who have been banned for account sharing, one was his own brother IN THE SAME HOUSE.

yet... he didnt even get a review, just a carbon copy "this is final" notice.

How did they get caught? Was one of them getting complaints? If I let my flatmate play on my account and then get multiple complaints, can I say it wasn't my fault as I wasn't playing? This is a one size fits all sort of situation to try and provide clarity for the company in what can be varied and complex situations.

Volkodav · April 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

So given the recent high profile ban for this offense, I'm curious: How would ESO know if you are sharing your account? Provided you and your partner (in crime evidently) don't try to log on at the same time (which I assume is impossible anyway), how would they know who is playing?

I'm also a bit puzzled as to why they would care, but I suppose they have some scenario in mind where it costs them money.

I would think that letting someone try ESO by creating and playing an alt on your account would be a great way to get them hooked. If they are a good enough friend that you are willing to let them do that then before long you will want to play together, and that means separate accounts and sales (at least of the game) for ZoS, so I suspect this would actually help rather than hurt their bottom line.

IP Address basically. When someone as closely followed as Sypher account shares they're bound to notice.

Why would the IP address be different if the OP was just letting a friend play a character on their account,unless it was on another machine where the IP would be different.
ZOS cant tell if you or your pal are running a character at your home.

GrumpStump · April 2016

Ashtaris wrote: »

GrumpStump wrote: »

Why would anyone share their account? My son came over and wanted to show me something in game, he logged into his game, not mine. I don't want ANYONE touching my game. I don't get it.

GrumpStump

Except I don't think that is considered "Account Sharing". You have your own account, he has his own account. The only thing you are doing is providing your computer so that he can logon to HIS account. Now if you provided him with your account name/password so that he could logon to your account from his location, I think that's what they consider "Account Sharing". I'm not an expert on the definitions here, but I that's what I believe they mean.

Uh, that's exactly what I was saying. I wasn't going to 'share', or let him use my account. My point was, I don't understand why someone would let others use their account, even my son in this case.

GrumpStump

Pomaikai · April 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

So "special people" get "special treatment". Nice to know.

I find this misleading.

Part of the basic jurisprudence is the make laws, rules, and regulations ambiguous because every instance and every person is different. That it why we have judges and juries, so these cases get decided on their own merits according to the specific circumstances. Every defendant is judge on the basis of their character, the motives involved, and their previous actions/standing. That is perfectly fair and reasonable; something that is almost universally recognized in legal systems across time and cultures.

Yes. This is why the wealthy get off, or are given a slap on the wrist, and the poor do hard time.

QuebraRegra · April 2016

ContraTempo wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

So given the recent high profile ban for this offense, I'm curious: How would ESO know if you are sharing your account?.

IP Address basically. When someone as closely followed as Sypher account shares they're bound to notice.

But I play on a laptop. I might be at home, a friend's house, a business trip, or on holiday. Maybe just at a café killing some time and some monsters in a good atmosphere. Besides, even at home I don't have a permanent IP. It changes sometimes when the DHCP lease runs out and the server hands my router a new IP.

ZOS doesn't know what DHCP is... LOL!

JK.. I'm sure they are not banning based on IP.

newtinmpls · April 2016

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I only have to worry that my wife's characrer will get out of phase with mine and we won't see each other. We're both level 10 on the characters we use together (her only character, my lowest one by far), so its not like I would be power leveling. If they could put in some kind of "party leader sets what stage a quest is at", even this wouldn't be an issue. That's the one thing making questing together difficult, and also difficult to do online with my friends who are are all different spots in quests.

We struggled with this as well, I will say that the DLC with built in leveling (IC, Wrothgar and now TG) helps mitigate that to a great deal.