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Vma round 5 console

N0TPLAYER2
N0TPLAYER2
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I'm having some trouble in round 5 of vma. Wondering if anyone can pass on some tips.

Background, v16 Templar, 490 champ points. All gold gear.

Running
5 julianos
4/3 Magnus
3 willpower all spell damage
Have 3 will power all mag recovery too

I have been destroyed repeatedly on vma. I finally gave it a serious go. I started to make some progress. Got stuck on round 3 for forever and did beat it. Round 4 was fairly easy.

Now, for round 5 I must have died 125 times last night before I gave up. I understand the mechanics ( destroy the troll, move before boss smashes platform etc) and I did manage to get the boss down to 30-25% health twice.

But I feel something I'm doing is wrong. I instantly spawn in and die to the water. I mean 34k, 40k ticks from the water alone.

I use toppling charge to launch from platform to platform and take the trolls out easy. Adds go down quickly too. It's just I can't seem to deal with everything, plus the boss (which I can also handle) and on top of that, being feared into the water that drops me instantly.

I have 34,500 magic, 19,750 health. Spell damage 27,500 Unbuffed, 34,500 buffed.

Any help is appreciated as always. I know I can come here and ask for assistance and someone will help.

I've read a few guides, I understand what to do... So any tips on skills, CP whatever for this round alone would be great

Also, I have 100 points into mag recovery. Many guides were saying reduce the cost would be better if I am sweeping constantly... Any thoughts on this and overall Templar cp going in? I have 100 elemental expert and 50 elf born.. That helps to heal me for more from the spear, right?

Thanks again
Edited by N0TPLAYER2 on April 12, 2016 6:34PM
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    Drop nova when you're taking a lot of damage. The damage reduction should help. When you're fighting the boss, plus nereid, plus archers and mages, that's a good time to drop it. I kill the nereid first, then archers and mages. I like to run a circle around the boss so you don't get caught in her ground smash. As you probably know, it's a oneshot.

    Your max magicka is somewhat low. Most good builds have 40k magicka, some have more. More max magicka means faster kills, which means less time taking damage. Do you have undaunted mettle?
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • N0TPLAYER2
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    I do have undaunted.
    My race isn't well suited for a Templar. Pretty sure that's why I don't have more magic.

    I will try nova, thanks.
  • Joy_Division
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    Your gear is fine. I would use 1 jewelry magicka recovery rune.

    I'm not getting the 40K water ticks. I OCCASIONALLY get feared in the water and have no stam, but this should not be a thing. Harness magicka mitigates the water damage.

    This is extremely *hard* if you do it wrong (too much DPS...the only fight in the game where DPS punishes you). The key to this fight is the boss destroys the ice and the adds spawn based on health. So YOU control the pace of the fight. If you try to burn her too quickly, you will get overrun by adds. I use the following strategy and it works every single time:
    • Start on the island you first spawned at (the one with the haste sigal). DPS the boss a little and grab the haste.
    • Troll + adds spawn at the same time. You go to the island where the troll goes. Kill the troll. Kite/CC melee (you are hasted, should be easy). Kill archer. If you are on the island with the 2 sigals, MOVE BACK TO THE FIRST ISLAND.
    • DPS boss + regain resources.
    • Boss will break island
    • Troll + nereid spawn. Kill them while kiting boss. Again, if you are on the island with two sigals, get off
    • When boss around 55% or so, second adds appear. Kill priority is: troll, mage, Nereid, melee. Make sure you have an AoE ultimate for this situation. If you are on the island with two sigals, get off
    • Boss will break island, be sure the last island you have is the one with 2 sigals.
    • Go to the 2 sigal island, grab the power boost.
    • Deal with troll + nereid, DPS boss.
    • TWO ranged adds will spawn the third wave at about 30%. Immediately grab defensive sigal and just LAUGH at how you can ignore this otherwise very difficult tasks of killing the adds, healing yourself, and dpsing the boss before she breaks the third platform. You can just concentrate on boss and execute her (though if a troll sneaks in there, kill it. Neried is also a range attacker so she can be ignored as well).

    You need that be on the island with two sigals for last phase. Once the boss goes under 30%, she will break that last platform pretty soon so you need good DPS on her. Just use the defensive sigal and Radiant Destruction her after the troll is dead.
    Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.
  • N0TPLAYER2
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    Wow. To the post above, thanks for SO much detail! Sounds perfect!!

    I've figured out how the boss spawns 3-4 waves of adds, I didn't realize ground break was due to health percentage. I also would run to whatever island troll was on and go from there.

    Your strategy above sounds totally right and makes sense. I will try and perfect what you've listed and report back.

    I really do appreciate it. I feel I have the dps and health to survive for sure. I have almost beat her!

    About the water ticks. I am referring to sometimes dying, and hitting respawn. If I am in the water, and don't move, I literally die in 1-2 seconds after spawning. And it says it's doing 34k, 40k damage per tick. So not constantly through out the fight. Just when I linger for one second or more before moving. It truly is unforgiving!
  • Dagoth_Rac
    Dagoth_Rac
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    Since you are only going for a clear at this point, not a high score, are you taking the sigils? The defensive sigil, in particular, is very powerful. It both reduces the damage you take and reflects projectiles. Let the archers and mages kill themselves with their own reflected attacks, so you can concentrate on boss and nereid. Well timed used of sigils will be a big help in getting your first clear.

    Also, Puncturing Sweeps counts as a DoT and is buffed by Thaumaturge. Consider something like 72 Elemental Expert, 72 Thaumaturge, 22 Elfborn, 1 Spell Erosion.

    That will increase Puncturing Sweep base damage by about 1.40x (72 points is about 20% buff in each star) compared to only 1.25x from 100 into Elemental Expert, roughly a 12% increase. Going from 50 Elfborn to 22 Elfborn will typically lower your critical damage multiplier from 1.75 to 1.69. That's about a 3.4% reduction in damage of critical hits, but will be more than made up for by the 12% increase in base damage (because 1.69 x 140 > 1.75 x 125). And the more damage you do with Puncturing Sweeps, the more you get healed. And Radiant Destruction is a DoT, too, so you will finish off enemies faster when they get to low health. Templars tend to rely on a lot of DoTs and channels (which count as DoTs in ESO). So Thaumaturge is very helpful. Skills like Vampire's Bane, Blazing Spear, and Elemental Blockade will also get buffed by Thaumaturge. So drop some DoTs on those enemies and let them tick away in the background while you Sweep, Sweep, Sweep!

    For resource management, most players prefer cost reduction in PvE because you are typically firing off skill after skill as fast as possible, so saving magicka on each cast is usually more helpful than getting more magicka every 2 seconds. But switching which has 100 points in star and which has 67 points in star is unlikely to make an enormous difference. You might be best just leaving that as is and swapping in the Willpower Jewelry with magicka recovery glyphs, as needed. Always start with the 3 Spell Power glyph jewelry. If you are running out of magicka in middle of fight, swap in 1 Magicka Recovery Glyph jewelry. For the tougher rounds, make sure to use the good spell power potions that give you +20% recovery for 47 seconds, and keep them up all the time. For the easier rounds, you can probably get by with the mediocre potions that drop from mobs and last like 27 seconds.

    What Mundus are you using? Thief is generally best for Templar because they are not a class that is going to have really high crit chance. If you can go from something like 52% crit to 70% crit with Thief, that is a big DPS boost. You will often find references to Thief being better if below 50% crit and Shadow being better if above 50% crit, but I think that is outdated. It seems to be from the days that crit damage was always 1.5x. Now that you get 1.6x just for slotting Sweeps and even more from Elfborn, I think the break even point is much higher and Thief is usually better.

    You can test it yourself, of course.

    Take Thief, hit an enemy with Sweeps. Note damage of normal attacks and critical attacks. (Critical Damage * (Crit Chance / 100)) + (Normal Damage * (1 - (Crit Chance / 100)) = Average Damage

    Take Shadow, hit an enemy with Sweeps. Note damage of normal attacks and critical attacks. (Critical Damage * (Crit Chance / 100)) + (Normal Damage * (1 - (Crit Chance / 100)) = Average Damage

    Which has the higher Average Damage? Go with that.

    There is a lot of emphasis on DPS here. But unfortunately, VMA is kind of a DPS race. You do need a lot of practice to learn the mechanics, but you still often find yourself needing to kill stuff and kill it fast. You don't necessarily need super elite 40,000,000 DPS (although that helps in ways that being super tanky or having super heals never will!). But you do need to pass a certain threshold of damage dealing or you will struggle.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »
    Wow. To the post above, thanks for SO much detail! Sounds perfect!!

    I've figured out how the boss spawns 3-4 waves of adds, I didn't realize ground break was due to health percentage. I also would run to whatever island troll was on and go from there.

    Your strategy above sounds totally right and makes sense. I will try and perfect what you've listed and report back.

    I really do appreciate it. I feel I have the dps and health to survive for sure. I have almost beat her!

    About the water ticks. I am referring to sometimes dying, and hitting respawn. If I am in the water, and don't move, I literally die in 1-2 seconds after spawning. And it says it's doing 34k, 40k damage per tick. So not constantly through out the fight. Just when I linger for one second or more before moving. It truly is unforgiving!

    TY!

    Save your soul gems and rez at wayshrine. Reviving in the arena is not faster because the time it take for the ghost form to fade is about the same time it takes to walk from the way-shrine back to the portal.
    Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.
  • RajinPVP
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    Make sure you have harness+rapid regen+rune focused up all the time. You have so much magica regen you need more spell damage try switching to all willpower with all spell damage if your having problem with sustain then put 1 reduced cost on jewelry. For cp.. reduced cost is better
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    Remember the sigils! The Defense (shield) sigil will up your physical/spell resistance AND reflect all projectiles for its entire duration.
  • N0TPLAYER2
    N0TPLAYER2
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    Thanks for all the replies. I am now back to the boss much easier than the first time. I'll report back if/when I beat her!
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    @Joy_Division always gives really good advice on VMA for rookies, so take it to heart. I will give my 2 cents on round 5 boss.

    This is the first place that I got seriously stuck in the arena. It is really the only boss fight that I am not trying to do a 100-0 burn. The beauty of this fight is that it becomes really easy once you get the hang of it. As stated above, you control the pace of the fight. Do not be afraid to hold DPS in certain spots. The rest of the arena is a DPS race, but this fight is NOT!

    Essentially there are three mechanics to deal with and two of them are 100% under your control. Trolls spawn based on time, so you cant do much about that, but often it makes sense to wait on a troll spawn before you push the boss past one of the health thresholds. The boss Spawns 2 Adds at 90, 60 and 30% of the bosses health. The boss breaks the Island he is on at 75, 45, and 5% of his health. Not sure if XBOX shows percentages, but I suppose you could do the math to get a rough estimate.

    This is how I handle the boss on really any class if I am trying to play it safe. As a general rule, circle him when you are sharing an island with him. Try to save stam for a CC break, because you will need it. A badly timed fear with no stam is really the only thing that gets me on this fight.

    1. DPS the boss for a few seconds. HOLD DPS at about 92% and wait for a troll to spawn.
    2. Immediately take out the troll and then push Boss to 90% to trigger the first wave of adds. This avoids getting adds and troll at same time.
    3. Take out the adds as fast as possible. Dont be afraid to grab a sigil when adds spawn.
    4. Once adds are dead, push boss to about 77%, be sure to take out any trolls along the way, and HOLD DPS.
    5. Wait for another troll to spawn, and quickly push boss to 75%. This will stun the troll, giving you plenty of time to take it out, while you switch islands. I usually go to wherever the troll is unless he is moving towards the island that was just smashed, but that shouldnt happen.
    6. Once the boss breaks the island, drop an ultimate on the neried that spawns from the rubble. They are squishy but hit hard, so take it out first.
    7. Now you essentially repeat the steps above. Push boss to about 62% and HOLD DPS for a troll.
    8. Take out troll, and push boss to 60% for second set of adds, again do whatever to take them out. Sigils are your friend.
    9. Push boss to about 47% and wait for troll to spawn, then push to 45% and go to last island.
    10. Take out troll, Ulti bomb the neried, and you are in the home stretch.
    11. At this point the boss will be around 40% health and you have one island left. Personally, I burn him at this point, but the safe move is to continue the strat above.
    12. DPS boss to about 32% health, wait for troll, (he will come to your island at this point). Kill the troll and push boss for last adds. Take out the adds like before.
    13. Now it is just up to you and the boss. On a templar, its probably safer to just keep jabbing him, but you could also start your execute. He will blow up the last island at 5%, but you should take him form 5-0% before he has time to do it.

    The whole point of this strat is to minimize more than a few adds at one time. Be patient and stick to the strat and it will get better. The toughest part is figuring a way to take out the 2 adds that spawn. Sometimes the ranged adds stay out in the water, but you need to figure out a way to take them out. Because this is not a DPS race, you could certainly change your bars and find a place for something like crushing shock, perhaps instead of toppling charge. It will interrupt trolls and take care of range adds.

    The funny thing is that with a little practice this is probably the second or third easiest boss fight if you take it slow. On the other hand, I happen to know this is the number one spot that the Sorc with the best VMA score in the world dies in the whole arena. Now, he is going for speed so he doesnt do anything I suggest and just burns him, but that is a different story. Not something I ever care to attempt. Haha.
  • N0TPLAYER2
    N0TPLAYER2
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    @Oreyn_Bearclaw

    Thanks for the info yet again! The strategy is for sure working. I spent a little over an hour and had the boss down to stage 3 (last pond, last adds) more than once. I am going to beat this tonight. I've been close enough now to see how it can be controlled and fairly easy.

    I will say, that the troll seems to not be on a set timer on Xbox. For whatever reason, I can start a round and one will sometimes appear with the boss. Sometimes not. Sometimes inbetween boss and ads, and again sometimes not.

    There aren't percentages on Xbox, wish there were. I also didn't know the last island explodes at 5%, i would have raged!! Now I know and am prepared.

    Thanks again. The info provided is more than i could have asked for. You guys rock!!
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »
    Wow. To the post above, thanks for SO much detail! Sounds perfect!!

    I've figured out how the boss spawns 3-4 waves of adds, I didn't realize ground break was due to health percentage. I also would run to whatever island troll was on and go from there.

    Your strategy above sounds totally right and makes sense. I will try and perfect what you've listed and report back.

    I really do appreciate it. I feel I have the dps and health to survive for sure. I have almost beat her!

    About the water ticks. I am referring to sometimes dying, and hitting respawn. If I am in the water, and don't move, I literally die in 1-2 seconds after spawning. And it says it's doing 34k, 40k damage per tick. So not constantly through out the fight. Just when I linger for one second or more before moving. It truly is unforgiving!

    TY!

    Save your soul gems and rez at wayshrine. Reviving in the arena is not faster because the time it take for the ghost form to fade is about the same time it takes to walk from the way-shrine back to the portal.

    I found out about this after spending 100 soul gems to respawn.....
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • Attackopsn
    Attackopsn
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    just sweeps until your finger hurts
    ign: ATTACKO
    PS4 NA
    First NA Completion of VMoL Hard Mode


  • N0TPLAYER2
    N0TPLAYER2
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    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »
    Wow. To the post above, thanks for SO much detail! Sounds perfect!!

    I've figured out how the boss spawns 3-4 waves of adds, I didn't realize ground break was due to health percentage. I also would run to whatever island troll was on and go from there.

    Your strategy above sounds totally right and makes sense. I will try and perfect what you've listed and report back.

    I really do appreciate it. I feel I have the dps and health to survive for sure. I have almost beat her!

    About the water ticks. I am referring to sometimes dying, and hitting respawn. If I am in the water, and don't move, I literally die in 1-2 seconds after spawning. And it says it's doing 34k, 40k damage per tick. So not constantly through out the fight. Just when I linger for one second or more before moving. It truly is unforgiving!

    TY!

    Save your soul gems and rez at wayshrine. Reviving in the arena is not faster because the time it take for the ghost form to fade is about the same time it takes to walk from the way-shrine back to the portal.

    I found out about this after spending 100 soul gems to respawn.....

    Have to disagree. I would rather spend the gem, and reassess the situation than walk or ride over and over and over.
  • N0TPLAYER2
    N0TPLAYER2
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    Beat round 5!!!!!! Omg amazing!!

    Without you guys help there's no way. Again thank you to everyone!!

    I'm sure I'll be back tomorrow with questions about round 6 lol.
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »
    Beat round 5!!!!!! Omg amazing!!

    Without you guys help there's no way. Again thank you to everyone!!

    I'm sure I'll be back tomorrow with questions about round 6 lol.

    Grats Buddy.

    Round 6 is frustrating, but I dont think it's as hard as round 5 once you understand the basic mechanics. I wont go into nearly as much detail (okay, maybe I lied), but the basics are as follows:

    Everything centers around the 5 pillers that are in the pattern of a 5 on a standard 6 sided die. They will start by being covered with webs. In addition to taking out the waves of adds that spawn, you goal is to remove the webs from these pillars. If you remove all 5 at the same time, you will stun everything in the room for a short duration. They way you remove these is by utilizing the Hoarvors that spawn. Kind of like the trolls in 5, they just seem to randomly spawn at anytime you are in the arena. Killing a hoarver near a covered pillar will remove the web. Alternatively, if you kill a hoarver away from the web, you can stand on top of it and throw a grenade at a pillar very much like the second boss in ICP.

    The best way to deal with the Hoarvors IMO is to light attack them with a staff (resto or destro), which will effectively taunt them towards you. You can kite them to pretty much anywhere in the arena (they do almost no damage), but typically I walk to the closest covered pillar and then kill the hoarver. I always go for the center one first if it is covered. They are pretty squishy, so anything more than a basic light attack will kill them where they stand. If you ignore the hoarvor, they wont really do anything and eventually wander off the screen. I often ignore them if I have 4 of 5 pillars uncovered and dont want to activate the stun. When learning, I would just plan to use the stun as much as possible.

    The opposite of the hoarvors are the webspinners, little spiders that spawn next to an uncovered pillar. These spiders are also pretty squishy, but they are ALWAYS your number one priority as they will recover the pillar if given enough time.

    Why is this important? Every so often, a wave of red spiders will spawn. Trying to attack them is a big no-no. They have huge health bars and will simply overwhelm you. One of the uncovered pillars will glow bright gold, which is your safe spot. Run to the light and the spiders will disperse. Sometimes the light will move on you to another pillar, which is why it is super important to keep at least 2 (preferably 3) pillars uncovered at all times. While the stun is useful at times, it also resets the pillars, so I personally try to uncover four pillars and keep it that way. That way if I miss a spider and one gets covered, its not a huge deal.

    There are some mini bosses along the way that hit hard and drop negates, but they are all manageable. Otherwise its pretty typical adds you are used to dealing with. There are a lot of casters so keep Harness Magic up.

    As for the boss, she is relatively straight forward. The hoarvors will keep coming. If you die, the pillars will reset. If you are starting from scratch (all pillars covered), you goal is to try to uncover them to stun the boss and then burn the crap out of her. In addition to the Hoarvors and Webspinners, there will be mini versions of the boss that spawn one at a time. They dont look like much, but they will snare you very bad, so they are high priorty targets. The biggest thing here is patience. You should always be DPSing something, but if any of the 3 basic adds are on the screen, they must be dealt with. I would say the priority is 1. Webspinner, 2 Mini bosses that snare, 3. Hoarvors, 4. Boss. Remember that once you see a Hoarver, you can quickly light attack it and take out something else while it is moving towards you.

    You should be able to uncover all the pillars by about the time the boss is at 60% or so. If your DPS is high (Especially if you grab a weapon sigil) you should be able to stun and burn here at that point. When I first cleared I would wait to closer to 50% to stun her, now I stun her as soon as possible. With a little practice you can pretty much just burn this boss. They only other thing is that she will spawn is a lurcher at 50% or so. If she is stunned, the lurcher will spawn stunned. If boss is in execute range when the stun wears off, I usually ignore the lurcher. Otherwise, take it out and then back to business as usual.
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