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Low Pop Bonus Encourages PVDooring

Astanphaeus
Astanphaeus
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For everyone complaining about EP PVDooring AD on TF:

An alliance that is benefiting from the Low Population Bonus earns 60 points for just holding their 3 back keeps and the surrounding resources. Just holding the 2 back keeps and resources nets that alliance a still not bad 40 points. For comparison, an alliance without the low pop bonus that holds all of their home keeps, resources, scrolls, and outpost earns 54 points.

Furthermore, an alliance can reach populations similar to the highest population alliance for a couple hours without immediately losing the low pop bonus. If during this time, they manage to recapture 5 of their home keeps and the surrounding resources, they will be earning 100 points. The max number of points that can normally be reached by holding the entire map is 108.

The only way to really counter this potential event is to take everything from that low population alliance. It's not the fault of the players that this game mechanic is so idiotically powerful. While I don't have an inherent problem with the idea of a low pop bonus, the current 2.5 multiplier is way too much and will logically result in the PVDooring that we see.
  • Garwulf
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    I cannot see how removing the low population bonus will do anything but ensure that the low population faction totally leaves. Maybe you should consider playing on a different faction rather than running with the Horde like everyone else.
    PVP is essentially on its last legs as far as I can tell.
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  • Anazasi
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    I see no problem with low pop bonus scoring. What I have issue with is when a faction has low population nothing hurts more than the quality zerging from EP.

    What needs to happen is when a faction goes into a low pop status. Additional perks like dungeon bosses should defend the low pop keeps. There was a time when players could purchase additional NPC to help them defend a keep against a horde. They of course were removed because bugged out and zergs used them as well. Perhaps making them automatic and linked directly to low pop would be a better solution. I for one believe additional defenses would help the low pop faction.
  • bitaken
    bitaken
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    Anazasi wrote: »
    I see no problem with low pop bonus scoring. What I have issue with is when a faction has low population nothing hurts more than the quality zerging from EP.

    What needs to happen is when a faction goes into a low pop status. Additional perks like dungeon bosses should defend the low pop keeps. There was a time when players could purchase additional NPC to help them defend a keep against a horde. They of course were removed because bugged out and zergs used them as well. Perhaps making them automatic and linked directly to low pop would be a better solution. I for one believe additional defenses would help the low pop faction.

    I miss popping 10 mage guards on a breach.

    Oh...the good ole days
    PvP Lead Officer for Einherjar

    Member of Einherjar and associated guilds since 2001

    A multi Gaming community of players.
  • Meilinka
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    Those Merc Contracts...

    We need moats with slaughterfish for low pop. Raise the draw bridge! The opposition must link together and form a body bridge. ;)
  • apostate9
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    Garwulf wrote: »
    I cannot see how removing the low population bonus will do anything but ensure that the low population faction totally leaves. Maybe you should consider playing on a different faction rather than running with the Horde like everyone else.
    PVP is essentially on its last legs as far as I can tell.
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    .

    Lolwut?
  • RinaldoGandolphi
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    I propose the following for low pop and to prevent PVDoor/gate camping.

    When a faction population meets the following criteria:
    • It has one bar of pop
    • It doesn't have its home keep bonus
    • its missing either its offensive or defensive scroll bonus
    • at least one of its gates has been opened

    the following will occur:

    The Mage's at each factions last Scroll Temple will draw on the power of their last Elder Scroll to call forth a defender from the stars that mirrors their factions. In this case the Mage's will summon the following for each Alliance.
    • For the Daggerfall Covenant the Celestial Warrior from Hell Ra Citadel will spawn in front of the last Scroll Temple.
    • For the Aldmeri Dominion the Celestial Mage from Aetherian Archive will spawn in Front of the Last Scroll Temple
    • For the Ebonheart Pact the Celestial Serpent will spawn in front of the last Scroll Temple.

    Each of these defenders will have 3X as much health as their 12 man trial counterparts and deal twice as much damage. They will also be immune to taunt. Attacks against them from players will be subject to Battle Spirit and its 50% reduction(since there will be more then 12 players fighting him) and the Mage, Warrior, and Serpents attacks will NOT be subject to the 50% reduction.

    (This means the Warrior's Cleave can hit an entire raid for 40k damage one shotting everyone, the Mage's Chain Lighting will be capable of wiping 24 easily men easily, and The Serpent will be able to do the same, these guys are trial bosses and since they will be fighting more then 12 people they have to be UBER STRONG considering they can only be summoned under the most dire of circumstances)]

    these Trial Bosses will retain all their mechanics from the 12 man trail raid versions, just amped up. this means the Serpent will have his mana burn and if you have too much magicka mana burn will kill you. the Mage will have her Mines and Chain Lighting and will crush you, the Warrior will have his Cleave, His Shield Throw, and his jumping around. Also, these guys will be able to call for help too as the Mage will summon her students, the Warrior will call on his Yokudian Allies, and the Serpent will call on a toned down version of the Manicora.

    If he is defeated he will be on a 20 minute respawn timer. After 20 mins he will respawn. He will also help the low pop faction take back their Tri-Keeps...this means this Celestial being will actually help you siege your 3 Home Keeps and take them back, After you have your 3 Tri-keeps he will disappear and can't be summoned again until the conditions above are met again, but he will have a 30 minute cooldown.

    This will put an end to gate camping as the majority of the night cappers wouldn't be able to take all the relic keeps as the normal 12-15 man groups night capping would get owned by The Warrior, Mage, or Serpent....and thats the point...he is designed to ensure taking the last scroll and the last relic keep will be very very very hard, and he will also help what little of said faction is online to take back their tri-keeps so there would be a much better odds of waking up in the morning and atleast all 3 factions would have their tri-keeps....it has no bearings on Emperor....

    It also adds a new challenge to Cyrodiil....what groups will have the mettle to kill such bosses that are 3x stroger then their 12 man trial counterparts and hit twice as hard...all while you do 50% less damage to them....it would be truly eipic to be fighting alongside one of these trial bosses at your last scroll keep :D
    Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on April 12, 2016 4:29PM
    Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
    Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
    Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
    Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
    RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
    Officer Fire and Ice
    Co-GM - MVP



    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
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    Oh and they will only help you take your tri-keeps back only when both gates are closed. If you are sieging a keep and a gate opens, he automatically teleports back to your scroll Temple, and he won;t venture beyond 30 meters around your scroll Temple until both gates are shut (to prevent one guy from aggroing him off) Anyone who picks up the scroll automatically becomes his target and he enrages.

    As it stands right now, nightcapping and taking the entire map back to the gates just needs to stop..its killing any kind of morale...it gets old logging in and seeing the map all one color...no one wants to start at their gates everyday....since the players can't police themselves, put in a strong obstacle to simply stop them.
    Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
    Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
    Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
    Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
    RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
    Officer Fire and Ice
    Co-GM - MVP



    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • danno8
    danno8
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    Anazasi wrote: »
    I see no problem with low pop bonus scoring. What I have issue with is when a faction has low population nothing hurts more than the quality zerging from EP.

    What needs to happen is when a faction goes into a low pop status. Additional perks like dungeon bosses should defend the low pop keeps. There was a time when players could purchase additional NPC to help them defend a keep against a horde. They of course were removed because bugged out and zergs used them as well. Perhaps making them automatic and linked directly to low pop would be a better solution. I for one believe additional defenses would help the low pop faction.

    I think an increase in siege damage (both against players/npc's and structures) in the range of 30-40% would help the low pop faction both defend their keeps better and take back a few keeps if they are BOTH low pop, AND down to their scroll keeps.

    It would also help if the low pop bonus was more responsive. Yesterday AD was up to 145 points at one point and it was 2 bars AD to 3 bars EP. It was like that for over an hour. It's too much.
  • Minalan
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    Or you know, keep the gates closed at night...
  • kevlarto_ESO
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    Maybe we should address the reason why we have low population outside of time zones, I don't think any campaign should ever have a population of like 1 locked 2, but the best idea Brian Wheeler had to try to keep a level population, was the one no one wanted. We all know pvp is a mess in this game, and I wonder if they will ever be able to recover, if they could ever get the lag issue under control would go a long ways.
    Edited by kevlarto_ESO on April 12, 2016 5:35PM
  • Laggus
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    I could care less about the low poplulation bonus to be honest. Its just logging in seeing a one coloured map..loiter around the maybe one keep we own for a while. Get slaughtered by 20 guys proxy det/meteoring my solo butt at said resource..loiter a bit more to see if anymore of my Alliance logs on...alt tab out when they don't, watch Youtube for a bit, consider watching TV for a bit with Wifey. Alt tab back to ESO to see if maps any better..oh look I've auto disconnected due to inactivity..can't be bothered logging back in. But hey..now doing my bit to get the low population bonus for everyone else now!
  • apostate9
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    Minalan wrote: »
    Or you know, keep the gates closed at night...

    So Australians need not PVP? Got it. You heard me, Australia...NO PVP!
  • KenaPKK
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    People who night cap don't care about campaign points.

    @RinaldoGandolphi dude I love the idea of adding PvE to my PvP game, especially PvE with crazy one shot mechanics. Sounds so fun...

    They just need to balance forward camps, siege, ressing, AoE, and other mechanics so that taking your home keeps back is easier.
    Edited by KenaPKK on April 15, 2016 10:17PM
    Kena
    Former Class Rep
    Former Legend GM
    Theorycrafter
    Beta player

    youtube.com/@KenaPKK (inactive)
  • staracino_ESO
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    They could add another set of campaign buffs that function as an inverted version of the "Enemy Keeps" buff, where you get slightly stronger as you lose more of your home keeps. This would help with getting pushed to nothing, but even this smacks of being a band-aid fix that adds more clutter to the game.
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    Pretty sure no one playing in the enemies buff server cares about the score, we want ap, we want action.

    Don't like it, play in a different campaign. If anything the low pop bonus encourages players to play..
  • ManwithBeard9
    ManwithBeard9
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    Pretty sure no one playing in the enemies buff server cares about the score, we want ap, we want action.

    Don't like it, play in a different campaign. If anything the low pop bonus encourages players to play..

    Right, encourage people to over pack already way over crowed campaigns, makes sense.
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    Pretty sure no one playing in the enemies buff server cares about the score, we want ap, we want action.

    Don't like it, play in a different campaign. If anything the low pop bonus encourages players to play..

    Right, encourage people to over pack already way over crowed campaigns, makes sense.

    What?…
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