Enodoc wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

But why is 160 Cp the target? I don't understand. 501 is level cap. Wont we see things in zone chat like "CP 501 LFG gold?"

What has changed besides that all your toons are now Cp 160? Cp 501s still won't want to group with you and then there will be a massive QQ because all the Cp 160s don't want to grind to 501 (which will take far longer than V1 to v16 on 8 toons by the way if you do the maths)

People with 160 CPs and people with 501 CPs will be wearing the same gear since (under Rich's suggestion) 160 CPs will be the highest gear available. If gear is the same, the only difference between those players is a bunch of diminishing-returns passives. There's no reason for a 501 CP player to not group with a 160 CP player if you're both wearing the top gear.

There will be new tiers of gear based on CP. Then when you have a few of those tiers the xp to get there becomes a mountain to climb.

hydrocynus wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

But why is 160 Cp the target? I don't understand. 501 is level cap. Wont we see things in zone chat like "CP 501 LFG gold?"

What has changed besides that all your toons are now Cp 160? Cp 501s still won't want to group with you and then there will be a massive QQ because all the Cp 160s don't want to grind to 501 (which will take far longer than V1 to v16 on 8 toons by the way if you do the maths)

160cp is what you will need to equip the current VR16 gear. So at CP160, you have unlocked that gear much quicker than at VR16.

Sure increasing CP beyond 160 will benefit you, but you won't be able to equip better gear. That is until new tiers come out, which they have already said wont require massive CP jumps.

A CP 160 will be just as powerful as a current VR16 with 160CP, they will just have been able to get there in 40% of the time.

But if I am at 501 and you are at 160, when they bring out a new tier I can use it and you can't and all of a sudden people will only want to group with to tier gear. Think about the future when the gear tiers go to 501 cp ie maybe 10 new tiers. Now the new player at 1 cp has a mountain to climb. Imagine if he has 1 toon? He must level more than the equivalent 8 toons to v16 in order to use top tier gear. So in effect he is just like a V1 but needs to grind 8 times more than he would have had to with 1 toon VR ranks to get to the top tier gear. Good luck to him.

That person with 160CP is not locked at that number, they can earn more. So if a new tier comes out in the patch after TAG, they will have 3 months to earn more CP. it's perfectly possibly they too can equip the new tier the day it comes out. That's assuming it isn't a huge jump say from 160 to 240CP, but that would be dumb anyway.

Also if they brought out VR18 gear, they would have a bigger mountain to climb anyway. There would also be people saying VR18 or GTFO. So no increase in elitism, unless the elitist are as sharp as non grapefruit spoons

Also 10 new tiers at the current rate would take 10+ years. It was VR 14 when the CP system went in over a year ago.

ir0nsides wrote: »

It's a huge mistake to tie gear to CP's. It's the same as having VR ranks. Why even bother removing VR ranks if they are going to do that? Now instead of VR ranks you have to grind through to wear the best gear, there are champion points to grind through so you can wear the best gear.

BOP gear and Ranked/CP gear restrictions do not belong in an Elder Scrolls game. It's not fun.

This is exactly what I am saying.

ir0nsides wrote: »

It's a huge mistake to tie gear to CP's. It's the same as having VR ranks. Why even bother removing VR ranks if they are going to do that? Now instead of VR ranks you have to grind through to wear the best gear, there are champion points to grind through so you can wear the best gear.

BOP gear and Ranked/CP gear restrictions do not belong in an Elder Scrolls game. It's not fun.

It's going to be 250% quicker for your main character and no grind at all for your alts, so infinately better than VR.

hydrocynus wrote: »

The only thing that has changed is that the guy with 8 toons levels them all together.

That is the only difference.

... and the fact that the catch-up mechanic and enlightenment will apply to "vet leveling" whereas today it does not.

wayfarerx wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

The only thing that has changed is that the guy with 8 toons levels them all together.

That is the only difference.

... and the fact that the catch-up mechanic and enlightenment will apply to "vet leveling" whereas today it does not.

But then why not just apply that to VR? Far less risk.

wayfarerx wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

But then why not just apply that to VR? Far less risk.

Because...

hydrocynus wrote: »

The only thing that has changed is that the guy with 8 toons levels them all together.

And the whole inferred-content-gating thing is a major part of it too. There will be no more of the implied linearity we have now, which goes Silver (VR1-5) -> Gold (VR6-10) -> Craglorn (VR11-14) -> Everything else (VR15+). Everything will be Level 50, and you'll not have to go through 10 ranks of stuff you don't want to do (Silver/Gold) to get to the stuff you do want to do (Trials, Pledges, PvP).

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Given the history of the game I can't see that upheaval going smoothly.

I think that this is the one thing that the entire planet is certain of.

Enodoc wrote: »

It is relevant though, as someone with permanent Enlightenment will be able to get to 160 CPs four times faster than someone with no Enlightenment, meaning they are effectively getting to the equivalent of VR16 four times faster as well.

Interesting you should mention that. Since Champion Points and Enlightenment were introduced in early 2015, I have never been without enlightenment. Every Veteran character I have has always been enlightened. I am not even sure if it is possible for that to change. At least, not the way I play.

hydrocynus wrote: »

Why? Because both players spent the same time enlightened. The second player got more xp from playing out of enlightenment. Enlightenment it's not a catchup tool.

For me, it is a measure of compensation for not grinding. I don't grind. I level Champion Ranks slower than a frozen snail, so I will never catch up with those who do grind, but Enlightenment lets me level faster than I would without it.

ir0nsides wrote: »

It's a huge mistake to tie gear to CP's. It's the same as having VR ranks. Why even bother removing VR ranks if they are going to do that? Now instead of VR ranks you have to grind through to wear the best gear, there are champion points to grind through so you can wear the best gear.

BOP gear and Ranked/CP gear restrictions do not belong in an Elder Scrolls game. It's not fun.

This is my fear. They are just replacing the numbers 1-16 with the numbers 1-3600. Bigger scale, numbers change faster, ultimately the same concept. I fear they will do it this way because, all the time they are rolling this out, they are thinking in terms of levels. Monster levels. Item levels. Character levels. It is inevitable that whatever they do will look and act like levels. If they were a design shop that worked on something other than character levels, we would have skill-based character progression instead of level-based character progression.

lordrichter wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Given the history of the game I can't see that upheaval going smoothly.

I think that this is the one thing that the entire planet is certain of.

Enodoc wrote: »

It is relevant though, as someone with permanent Enlightenment will be able to get to 160 CPs four times faster than someone with no Enlightenment, meaning they are effectively getting to the equivalent of VR16 four times faster as well.

Interesting you should mention that. Since Champion Points and Enlightenment were introduced in early 2015, I have never been without enlightenment. Every Veteran character I have has always been enlightened. I am not even sure if it is possible for that to change. At least, not the way I play.

hydrocynus wrote: »

Why? Because both players spent the same time enlightened. The second player got more xp from playing out of enlightenment. Enlightenment it's not a catchup tool.

For me, it is a measure of compensation for not grinding. I don't grind. I level Champion Ranks slower than a frozen snail, so I will never catch up with those who do grind, but Enlightenment lets me level faster than I would without it.

ir0nsides wrote: »

It's a huge mistake to tie gear to CP's. It's the same as having VR ranks. Why even bother removing VR ranks if they are going to do that? Now instead of VR ranks you have to grind through to wear the best gear, there are champion points to grind through so you can wear the best gear.

BOP gear and Ranked/CP gear restrictions do not belong in an Elder Scrolls game. It's not fun.

This is my fear. They are just replacing the numbers 1-16 with the numbers 1-3600. Bigger scale, numbers change faster, ultimately the same concept. I fear they will do it this way because, all the time they are rolling this out, they are thinking in terms of levels. Monster levels. Item levels. Character levels. It is inevitable that whatever they do will look and act like levels. If they were a design shop that worked on something other than character levels, we would have skill-based character progression instead of level-based character progression.

Yes exactly.

beasly23 wrote: »

Yes, but it appears they are currently tracking individual character CP progress.

Im just a filthy console casual so maybe PC players are better at predicting how this will play out based on past experiences, but ZOS appear to have the necessary data to make it so 160 CP = VR 16 if and only if your specific character earned 160 CP. I hit 160 CP long before VR 16. This would still be a welcome change, however it would be a huge disappointment to all of us banking on 50=VR 16 if you have a VR16 already.

Again I hope and pray this is all paranoid illusion. If this has always been the way CP has been handled across multiple VR characters then no worries. I only just recently leveled up my second/third VR character so I wouldn't know.

Characters EARN CP independently, CP that is earned is then stashed in a global pool.