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Does Zenimax Care About The Playerbase's Feedback?

demonaffinity
demonaffinity
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Greetings!

I've been a supporter of ESO since its launch. On and off. I always felt comfortable logging into ESO, as I loved the combat system and graphics. It's a gorgeous mmo. However, one thing keeps getting repeated, time after time. Zenimax disregards player feedback. I'm not making this thread to bash Zenimax, I'm making it because I just love the foundation ESO is build on, and the potential for this MMO is huge in my eyes. I want to TRY to be more involved.

Let me first emphasize that I have little to no experience in this field. I haven't been too involved with providing feedback and seek attention from Zeni staff in ESO. Usually when I "main" a game, I like to be involved. A great example is Warframe, where the developers are very active on the forum and geniunly cares about player feedback. Their main focus is that the players are satisfied, while keeping THEIR vision of the game of course. Because of this, the game has become one of the best free to play games, and players LOVE the developers. The game is still progressing very well.

I never got that vibe from Zenimax. They never really directly address issues on the forum, as 90% of their answers are "please keep the thread clean etc". While I understand that it's important to keep the forum clean, it's even more important that the community feels acknowledged. Both on the forum and on social media, zenimax does not communicate well with the playerbase, and it's leaving us wondering how much they actually care.

Because of this, I've personally stayed off the forum for the most part, and just kinda accepted how the game would develop. But is that really fair? That players should feel completely powerless?


I want to address a video by a youtuber named "FENGRUSH". He addresses what he consideres major issues, and when I saw the video I felt kinda sad. I dont necessarily agree with his statement, but I think it's important to at least consider them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o33iczl2PxE



My main concern at this point, is that Zenimax has either given up on ESO as a mainstream mmo, or simply milking it for whats left. From my personal point of view, I see no passion from their side. There is no active communication to the players, addressing the issues they post, social media is almost purely advertisement and no communication, and hardcore players feels neglected.

A good example in my eyes, is Cyrodiil. I play on NA when Im from Denmark, so I expected a bit higher ping rate. However, when I played pvp, EVERYONE was complaining about absurdly high ping rate. And phrases like: "welcome to ESO", "working as intended", "Working on a fix, no ETA, new upcomming pet in crownstore", are becomming running jokes through the entire playerbase. Those are of course ignorant, but Is that really the kind of trust and respect you aim for Zenimax?

Granted I have only done pvp for a few days now, but it's mixed feelings. When the ping is huge and no one is doing anything, I feel like Im wasting my time. When the ping is stable and people are working together, clashing zergs against zergs, it feels like a LOT of fun. So I think pvp has a lot more potential if Zenimax would address the players' frustrations.

I don't think it's possible to satisfy everyone, and I have absolutely no idea how difficult it is to fix the main issues like server stability. But the fact there is no active communication to the playerbase, leaves players wondering if anything is ACTUALLY being done.

I want to end my thread by saying that I plan to continue supporting ESO, and that many of these concerns are based on assumptions and other player feedback. But I don't think it's irrelevant because of that. Wether you agree or disagree with these speculations, please keep it civil.
Edited by demonaffinity on April 12, 2016 4:42PM
  • UltimaJoe777
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    FENG RUSH lol

    Allow me to point out 3 things:

    1. Just because Zenimax does not take the time to respond to everything posted on the forums doesn't mean they do not care. Proof is in how mods say when they moderate a thread with a heated discussion yet do not close it "the feedback is important" or something along those lines.
    2. The ESO streamers are all elitists for the most part that hate casuals and have plenty to gripe about. From what I hear they have moved on for the most part. They also like to call me out on twitch because I'm a "casual" lol
    3. There is no space in FENGRUSH's name, at least on these forums :p
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
    Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy
  • demonaffinity
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    FENG RUSH lol

    Allow me to point out 3 things:

    1. Just because Zenimax does not take the time to respond to everything posted on the forums doesn't mean they do not care. Proof is in how mods say when they moderate a thread with a heated discussion yet do not close it "the feedback is important" or something along those lines.
    2. The ESO streamers are all elitists for the most part that hate casuals and have plenty to gripe about. From what I hear they have moved on for the most part. They also like to call me out on twitch because I'm a "casual" lol
    3. There is no space in FENGRUSH's name, at least on these forums :p

    I copied his name from youtube :)

    I know that Zenimax can't reply on everything. That would be unreasonable to expect. But their communication is VERY limited, and it shows. because many players has lost faith in Zenimax, and it gets discussed on a regular basis.

    Elitist or not, hardcore or casual, I think everyone's voice should be heard and taken serious.
  • UltimaJoe777
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    FENG RUSH lol

    Allow me to point out 3 things:

    1. Just because Zenimax does not take the time to respond to everything posted on the forums doesn't mean they do not care. Proof is in how mods say when they moderate a thread with a heated discussion yet do not close it "the feedback is important" or something along those lines.
    2. The ESO streamers are all elitists for the most part that hate casuals and have plenty to gripe about. From what I hear they have moved on for the most part. They also like to call me out on twitch because I'm a "casual" lol
    3. There is no space in FENGRUSH's name, at least on these forums :p

    I copied his name from youtube :)

    I know that Zenimax can't reply on everything. That would be unreasonable to expect. But their communication is VERY limited, and it shows. because many players has lost faith in Zenimax, and it gets discussed on a regular basis.

    Elitist or not, hardcore or casual, I think everyone's voice should be heard and taken serious.

    And it is, even if Zenimax doesn't show it. For example I posted in Ask Us Anything hinting that I would like Almalexia's Lantern to last the entire cooldown period instead of wear off halfway through it. After Thieves Guild was released sure enough it lasts the entire cooldown, give or take a second, and yet they never truly replied to my request or hinted they'd look into it.
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
    Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy
  • JadeNaria
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    Do they care? I undoubtedly believe they do. Now whether or not they engage with us as regularly as they should when we bring them up or try to fix them is a whole different matter.
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    SAVE ESO PVP, WE MATTER.
    #FIXPVP

  • demonaffinity
    demonaffinity
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    FENG RUSH lol

    Allow me to point out 3 things:

    1. Just because Zenimax does not take the time to respond to everything posted on the forums doesn't mean they do not care. Proof is in how mods say when they moderate a thread with a heated discussion yet do not close it "the feedback is important" or something along those lines.
    2. The ESO streamers are all elitists for the most part that hate casuals and have plenty to gripe about. From what I hear they have moved on for the most part. They also like to call me out on twitch because I'm a "casual" lol
    3. There is no space in FENGRUSH's name, at least on these forums :p

    I copied his name from youtube :)

    I know that Zenimax can't reply on everything. That would be unreasonable to expect. But their communication is VERY limited, and it shows. because many players has lost faith in Zenimax, and it gets discussed on a regular basis.

    Elitist or not, hardcore or casual, I think everyone's voice should be heard and taken serious.

    And it is, even if Zenimax doesn't show it. For example I posted in Ask Us Anything hinting that I would like Almalexia's Lantern to last the entire cooldown period instead of wear off halfway through it. After Thieves Guild was released sure enough it lasts the entire cooldown, give or take a second, and yet they never truly replied to my request or hinted they'd look into it.

    That sounds more of a bug. Ive reported several bugs myself and they get fixed fairly quickly. However if you look at something like ping in cyrodiil, I havent done pvp for more than a few days, but Ive played since launch, and I know for a fact that there has been serious issues with cyrodiil for a loooooooong time. And it sounds like the majority of players in pvp has given up on getting it fixed. Now they run around joking about it instead.

    I think there is a balance that needs to be taken into account here. I know its a stretch, but I used Warframe as an example. They don't reply to everything, and they also get frustrating players expressing dissatisfaction because of it. But they do address A LOT of threads. Sometimes community moderators will put together threads of acknowledged issues and debates, to let players know that the developers know about the issues, and wants more in-depth discussions going to make a final decision. This makes the community feel acknowledged, and the majority of players loves them for it. It makes them keep trying and supporting, even if they don't get their way in the end.

    Zenimax does occassionally address some issues, but it happens on a RARE basis. It's been a while since Ive been a part of a gaming community like this, where so many players feel Zenimax just doesnt care. I'm not saying they dont care, but a lot of people FEELS that way. Too many if you ask me.

    I think Zenimax should at least consider improving their communication with the players.
    JadeNaria wrote: »
    Do they care? I undoubtedly believe they do. Now whether or not they engage with us as regularly as they should when we bring them up or try to fix them is a whole different matter.
    That's exactly the issue of this discussion. Essentially, I also think Zenimax cares. But too many people feel like they dont, because of the lack of communication.
    Edited by demonaffinity on April 12, 2016 4:58AM
  • JadeNaria
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    @demonaffinity
    Yes, then if that is the issue of the discussion and if their frequency to interact with us is how we are measuring if they care in this thread, then I say no.

    Whether Zenimax knows it or simply doesn't mind, the reputation they are giving themselves speaks poorly of them as "actions speak louder than words" and that is not limited to the lack of action as well.

    When a LARGE percentage of their interactions are in regards to:

    1. Removing comments in threads for whatever reason

    2. Closing threads for whatever reason.

    3. Commenting in a thread to moderate for whatever reason.

    VERSUS replying to our feedback, addressing our concerns with the multitude of concerns players have addressed here...

    Those actions say a lot about them, not good things.

    Those actions tell me "Keep them under control, nevermind what they say, we are doing things our way regardless. Don't answer them as they are not owed an explanation. Most of their issues can wait, our focus is to push out content".


    Those are my thoughts. That is my impression.


    Edited by JadeNaria on April 12, 2016 5:10AM
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    SAVE ESO PVP, WE MATTER.
    #FIXPVP

  • Kammakazi
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    The only concerns they don't respond to is the PvP community cause y'all toxic
    trollface_tiny.jpg
  • UltimaJoe777
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    JadeNaria wrote: »
    @demonaffinity
    Yes, then if that is the issue of the discussion and if their frequency to interact with us is how we are measuring if they care in this thread, then I say no.

    Whether Zenimax knows it or simply doesn't mind, the reputation they are giving themselves speaks poorly of them as "actions speak louder than words" and that is not limited to the lack of action as well.

    When a LARGE percentage of their interactions are in regards to:

    1. Removing comments in threads for whatever reason

    2. Closing threads for whatever reason.

    3. Commenting in a thread to moderate for whatever reason.

    VERSUS replying to our feedback, addressing our concerns with the multitude of concerns players have addressed here...

    Those actions say a lot about them, not good things.

    Those actions tell me "Keep them under control, nevermind what they say, we are doing things our way regardless. Don't answer them as they are not owed an explanation. Most of their issues can wait, our focus is to push out content".


    Those are my thoughts. That is my impression.


    You do realize mods are not part of Zenimax staff right? They just moderate the forums and I only see one, maybe two with admin status moderate at times and usually they do give proper responses to the thread, or at least more than mods say which is practically scripted word for word.
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
    Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy
  • Ackwalan
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    You'll enjoy the game a lot more, when you ignore people like fengrush.
  • LiquidSchwartz
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    Ackwalan wrote: »
    You'll enjoy the game a lot more, when you ignore people like fengrush.

    Ignorance is bliss
    You cant deny he has a lot of accurate points
    May the Schwartz be with you.
    EP/XB1/NA

  • Affenbaron
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    and why all other games works in online mode partys work fine i can buy download and play stuff buyed in store its only eso bug hotfix that not passed microsoft securitie ahd they give the black peter too microsoft

  • zyk
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  • Zanen
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    Yes and no.

    Right after launch, a lot of people had a lot of very loud opinions on what was wrong with the game, and ZOS listened to a lot of the loudest ones, and made some terrible choices as a result. (softcaps, aoe caps, moving too much server-side without finding a solution for the negative effect on performance, etc.)

    OTOH, ZOS has, from the beginning, had a culture that believed there was value in withholding information from the player. Whether it was tooltips, addons, UI, or interactions with the playerbase. How much of that was an attempt to provide a sense of exploration and how much was just hoping no one would notice how broken stuff was early on is hard to say.

    At this point I think it's safe to say ZOS is extremely understaffed, to a financially ruinous extent IMO, as the game has so much potential to be so much more than it is. I imagine there are suits somewhere making bad decisions the devs have to work with, and there are too few people who have time to play and test the game in the room when decisions are being made.

    I think there are people who care what we think, but I don't think they generally have the power to implement changes and they have to be extremely cautious about player feedback that's inherently biased and generally doesn't understand the technical difficulties or have access to the data they do.

    I would love to see ZOS employ a few hardcore players as testers/advisors though, maybe avoid airing demonstrations where people are hardcasting frags all the way through and such.
  • Tavore1138
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    Personally I have always felt that ZOS does listen to player feedback BUT it listens to a small segment of 'well known' players who are not necessarily representative of the wider player base.

    Thus we get these announcements when they tell us with big happy smiles that they have listened to feedback and given us <drum roll> something that only about 10 people want while the rest of us scratch our heads, wonder what planet they are living on and how we could communicate with it...

    Then we post here until our threads get closed or we get warned/banned and ZOS probably wonder why we are grumbling about this thing we all asked for.... when none of us actually did....
  • Shader_Shibes
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    Ackwalan wrote: »
    You'll enjoy the game a lot more, when you ignore people like fengrush.

    Can you explain why he should ignore fengrush?
  • UltimaJoe777
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    Personally I have always felt that ZOS does listen to player feedback BUT it listens to a small segment of 'well known' players who are not necessarily representative of the wider player base.

    Thus we get these announcements when they tell us with big happy smiles that they have listened to feedback and given us <drum roll> something that only about 10 people want while the rest of us scratch our heads, wonder what planet they are living on and how we could communicate with it...

    Then we post here until our threads get closed or we get warned/banned and ZOS probably wonder why we are grumbling about this thing we all asked for.... when none of us actually did....

    First of all their own forums are not the only place they "set up shop" in. Reddit, Twitter, probably even Facebook as well could very well have people giving feedback and requesting things as well. Furthermore only a handful of the entire playerbase actually posts here.

    Secondly there are things released that please many of the forum community very much. I've seen praise given for certain things even if it came with a snarky FINALLY lol

    And finally Zenimax cannot cater to everything they read. Nothing is ever wanted by 100% of the playerbase when it comes to features in the game so Zenimax sees feedback and sees different points of view and then determines the best way they can think of to make sure parts of that feature please as many as possible. Picky people will be the likely ones to dislike it and some people just like to hate lol
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  • Horker
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    Kammakazi wrote: »
    The only concerns they don't respond to is the PvP community cause y'all toxic
    trollface_tiny.jpg

    id love to follow you arround everywhere u walk/go and spam Proxi Det :D<3
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  • Hymzir
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    Not as much as they should. They get a lot of slack for running a game under the Elder Scroll brand, and thus are complacent with the state of the game, since so many play it despite its flaws. Without the Elder Scroll brand, the game would've tanked by now, but slowly and surely the goodwill of the player base is running out and ZOS is in for a rude awakening.
    Zanen wrote: »
    OTOH, ZOS has, from the beginning, had a culture that believed there was value in withholding information from the player. Whether it was tooltips, addons, UI, or interactions with the playerbase. How much of that was an attempt to provide a sense of exploration and how much was just hoping no one would notice how broken stuff was early on is hard to say.
    Very much this. ZOS does not do communication. It seems not to believe in communication. I suppose some higher up in the organization thinks that openly speaking about plans and decisions will somehow hurt their company. Or that telling about your plans means you are committed to them, and if you change your mind or find out the idea to be undoable, then people will rage and it will impact negatively on your company and your brand.

    To be fair, this is true to a certain degree, but most people will accept open and candid explanation as to why, something that was talked about previously, has been changed. Some will throw a hissy fit and flame the game, but the same is also true for never speaking about anything. Just think about how the 'no ETA' thing become a meme, and how bad it's been to the image of the company.

    Also remember those early responses from customer service? When you encountered a problem with the game - you did not get clear and informative reply. You got a incomprehensible scribble about how molag bal no doubt has sent scamps to infest your computer, and how they will valiantly slay them or some such nonsense. I'm sure some marketing "consultant" though that was a clever idea. But personally I found it really frustrating when I wanted precise information I got vague nonsense clad in layers of extraneous fluff...

    Yeah, communication, not a strong point for ZOS. Even now, reddit is more informative source as to what is happening with the game than the official forums!
  • L2Pissue
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    ZOS read players feedback? yes. and it stops here.
  • Tyrion87
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    The players want to believe ZOS cares about their feedback.
    ZOS claims they care about players' feedback.
    The fact is players don't feel like their feedback matters to ZOS in any way.
  • Ichnaea
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    No fixes until "next major update"?

    PVP'ers be like
    rLBzoJQ.gif
    There's no sound because that's the alessia bridge they are fighting near.
    Edited by Ichnaea on April 12, 2016 10:29AM
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  • Gidorick
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    Tyrion87 wrote: »
    The players want to believe ZOS cares about their feedback.
    ZOS claims they care about players' feedback.
    The fact is players don't feel like their feedback matters to ZOS in any way.

    This is the crux of it. Even if they do listen (which, I think they do, to a point) we don't feel like they do because they don't practice much outward communication with this community.
    Edited by Gidorick on April 12, 2016 10:35AM
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  • UltimaJoe777
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    Tyrion87 wrote: »
    The players want to believe ZOS cares about their feedback.
    ZOS claims they care about players' feedback.
    The fact is players don't feel like their feedback matters to ZOS in any way.

    There is a fine line between reasonable doubt and a reason to doubt. I don't blame people that do doubt Zenimax for doubting them but there are people that recognize their endeavors and understand what they go through. Unfortunately patience is not this community's strong suit and long periods of time with issues remaining unfixed has broken it for them. Mistakes are made, understandings are had, but in the end this game will see its glorious path realized. When that day comes we will all look back and remember the hardships that were endured on the way and laugh lol
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  • SkoomaAddict420
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    Yes. They get on the forums and communicate with us. Unlike others...
  • NewBlacksmurf
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    Aside from all the comments above....go read the very first thing on the ZOS website so you first understand what this game is to be. I'm suggesting this because you refer to ZOS giving up on making this game a mainstream MMO. That was never the goal or intent so they didn't give up, they are making the first server based game that plays like a single player RPG as much as possible.

    That's the concept and focus all things are going to follow.
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  • Shader_Shibes
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    Ichnaea wrote: »
    No fixes until "next major update"?

    PVP'ers be like
    rLBzoJQ.gif
    There's no sound because that's the alessia bridge they are fighting near.

    Man, that film is so funny!
  • JD2013
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    Yes. A lot of player feedback has made it into the game. Irrespective of whether or not people believe that.

    Every single person who asks a question is not going to get a personalised answer. I've never seen that happen with any game ever.l, and it's ludicrous to expect the devs to be on the forums all the time when they have actual work to be getting on with.

    Communication is a good thing. But they can't cater to every whim.
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  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    JD2013 wrote: »
    Yes. A lot of player feedback has made it into the game. Irrespective of whether or not people believe that.

    Every single person who asks a question is not going to get a personalised answer. I've never seen that happen with any game ever.l, and it's ludicrous to expect the devs to be on the forums all the time when they have actual work to be getting on with.

    Communication is a good thing. But they can't cater to every whim.

    Then when the devs do post they viciously attack them. What this thread should be titled is "I feel entitled because I PVP and that makes me better than everyone else. Why doesnt zenimax only listen to me!".
  • magnusthorek
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    Ichnaea wrote: »
    No fixes until "next major update"?

    PVP'ers be like
    rLBzoJQ.gif
    There's no sound because that's the alessia bridge they are fighting near.

    Man, that film is so funny!

    Which one is that? I don't recall...
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  • aubrey.baconb16_ESO
    Is the whole player base represented by views expressed on this forum?

    I sincerely hope not.
This discussion has been closed.