Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
2H Weapons and Set Bonuses
I wanted to repost a suggestion made a while ago to make 2H weapons count as 2 items for the purpose of set bonuses.
Thus, wearing 5 Hunding's Rage + 4 Night's Silence while Dual Wielding gives you 4 + 3 = 7 set bonuses total.
Whereas using 5 Hunding's Rage + 3 Night's Silence with a Bow equipped gives you only 4 + 2 = 6 set bonuses.
I think this is irregular. Bow or any 2H weapon is inherently neither more nor less advantageous than DW or One Hand and Shield; the skills are well balanced. The extra set bonus is arbitrary. To make things sensible, I propose that a two-handed weapon count as 2 items when bonuses are allocated for armor + weapons sets.
This way, 5 Hunding's Rage + 3 Night's Silence w/ Bow will also provide 7 set bonuses on the whole.
Thus, wearing 5 Hunding's Rage + 4 Night's Silence while Dual Wielding gives you 4 + 3 = 7 set bonuses total.
Whereas using 5 Hunding's Rage + 3 Night's Silence with a Bow equipped gives you only 4 + 2 = 6 set bonuses.
I think this is irregular. Bow or any 2H weapon is inherently neither more nor less advantageous than DW or One Hand and Shield; the skills are well balanced. The extra set bonus is arbitrary. To make things sensible, I propose that a two-handed weapon count as 2 items when bonuses are allocated for armor + weapons sets.
This way, 5 Hunding's Rage + 3 Night's Silence w/ Bow will also provide 7 set bonuses on the whole.
7
-
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why do you think a crafted healing staff that requires only 3 traits should be better than an msa staff?
This would be the case if you would get the Torugs Pact 2 piece bonus for just equipping the staff.1 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭Truth is the skills are not balanced between DW and 2H. There is a lot more utility in 2H, and that is the cost of the extra slot.2 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There is no logical reason to let one weapon count as 2 pieces of gear.
And even if, you'd have to do the same for bow, resto staff and destro staff.Susano'o
Zerg Squad1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Two-handed weapons are balanced for their lack of a second trait/set slot by providing better punch per blow. That is something people often like to forget whenever this st... uhm... not entirely well thought out idea rears its ugly head.
IF two-handed weapons were to get a second set piece effect, one-handed weapons would need to get their damage uppened, thus eroding the differences between weapon lines... and those differences are what makes different weapons fun!
It is what makes your choices have some meaning. Having to -make- a choice, accept a tradeoff... do you want the extra set piece option, or do you prefer the stronger blow to strike? Take one, but don't ask for both...1 -
0
-
Ah, but I think that the missing set bonus for 2H is not by design, such that it is a feature explicitly used to balance the game. Instead, it's not a feature but a bug, an overlooked anomaly to which I am drawing attention.TheShadowScout wrote: »IF two-handed weapons were to get a second set piece effect, one-handed weapons would need to get their damage uppened, thus eroding the differences between weapon lines... and those differences are what makes different weapons fun!0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It is NOT a "missing set bonus". There is NO logical reason for one big weapon to count as two weapons when counting pieces for a set. It is just a drawback of having one big thing instead of two smaller things, that the big thing has an edge in quality, and the small things the enge in quantity. Thus they balanced that drawback with higher oomph per blow.SunDrenched wrote: »Ah, but I think that the missing set bonus for 2H is not by design, such that it is a feature explicitly used to balance the game. Instead, it's not a feature but a bug, an overlooked anomaly to which I am drawing attention.
And the player gets to choose which one they prefer. Working. As. Intended.
0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭SunDrenched wrote: »
Ah, but I think that the missing set bonus for 2H is not by design, such that it is a feature explicitly used to balance the game. Instead, it's not a feature but a bug, an overlooked anomaly to which I am drawing attention.TheShadowScout wrote: »IF two-handed weapons were to get a second set piece effect, one-handed weapons would need to get their damage uppened, thus eroding the differences between weapon lines... and those differences are what makes different weapons fun!
I'm pretty sure the devs have said it was on purpose. It does in fact balance the game. 2 handed weapon's skill lines cover a wider area of influence, and creating as well as improving them requires less mats. DW would need to be amped up considerably to be on par, and the mats required to build and improve them would need to be lowered.0 -
Ok, suppose each "smaller thing" is half as big in size as the "big thing." Then together, when both equipped, they'd be exactly equal to the one big thing. The extra set bonus is still an undeserved privilege.TheShadowScout wrote: »It is just a drawback of having one big thing instead of two smaller things, that the big thing has an edge in quality, and the small things the enge in quantity. Thus they balanced that drawback with higher oomph per blow.
If so, then there is nothing to discuss. I've made my suggestion and depart hereupon.I'm pretty sure the devs have said it was on purpose. It does in fact balance the game.1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You have one pineapple. It is as big as two apples. The sign says "One extra lollipop per piece of fruit", Do you -really- think your pineapple will get you two lollipops? If so, back and repeat basic school!SunDrenched wrote: »Ok, suppose each "smaller thing" is half as big in size as the "big thing." Then together, when both equipped, they'd be exactly equal to the one big thing. The extra set bonus is still an undeserved privilege.
As for undeserved priviledge, the one handed weapons pay for that with less initial damage per blow. And even so, everyone and their granny is picking two-handed in PvP over dual wield for their DPS ganks, and doing well with it.
Why then should the two-handed builds gain the last advantage dual one-handed setups have over them? Just because some people can't sleep unless they have -every- advantage??
Edited by TheShadowScout on April 12, 2016 5:38AM1 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SunDrenched wrote: »
Ah, but I think that the missing set bonus for 2H is not by design, such that it is a feature explicitly used to balance the game. Instead, it's not a feature but a bug, an overlooked anomaly to which I am drawing attention.TheShadowScout wrote: »IF two-handed weapons were to get a second set piece effect, one-handed weapons would need to get their damage uppened, thus eroding the differences between weapon lines... and those differences are what makes different weapons fun!
I'm pretty sure the devs have said it was on purpose. It does in fact balance the game. 2 handed weapon's skill lines cover a wider area of influence, and creating as well as improving them requires less mats. DW would need to be amped up considerably to be on par, and the mats required to build and improve them would need to be lowered.
But that in fact would be the right way to do it. What developer goes 'we'll balance this by giving them just one good skill and making the rest mediocre' ?Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on April 12, 2016 5:12AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can get a 2 set bonus if you half the costs of materials and enchants for dual wield :P
More seriously, it would cost too much resource since you need to balance a lot more like the staff 2-piece torugs > ma staff as mentioned.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
vontariel✭✭✭
In fact, there is: It uses 2 slots, that's why it should count as 2 pieces. And yes, that also applies to bow and staves.There is no logical reason to let one weapon count as 2 pieces of gear.
And even if, you'd have to do the same for bow, resto staff and destro staff.
Bow is also 2h weapon. It's non-existent as main source of DPS (it's second bar DoT weapon ATM). And comparable damage is easily achieved by DW.TheShadowScout wrote: »Two-handed weapons are balanced for their lack of a second trait/set slot by providing better punch per blow.
If you are questing and gathering flowers, then sure it's difference on personal taste level.TheShadowScout wrote: »IF two-handed weapons were to get a second set piece effect, one-handed weapons would need to get their damage uppened, thus eroding the differences between weapon lines... and those differences are what makes different weapons fun!
Maybe 2h is powerhouse in PvP, and 2W can pull great stable numbers in PvE, but bow is now only support DoT weapon or stealth-gank killer. So if by fun, you mean to be forced to use other weapon to be viable on both grounds, then sure it's fun as hell.
If you choose bow you got neither damage nor set bonus, and with spammable gap closers no rangeTheShadowScout wrote: »It is what makes your choices have some meaning. Having to -make- a choice, accept a tradeoff... do you want the extra set piece option, or do you prefer the stronger blow to strike? Take one, but don't ask for both...
=============================================================
Main problem with that suggestion is with Torug pact set -> it's only craftable set which gives weapon/spellpower bonus as 2-piece, so it would give too big boost to staves. If it'd be swapped with 3-piece bonus problem would be solved.
1 -
Sunburnt_Penguin✭✭✭✭✭This again? Why do you need two posts on the exact same thing when people already gave you logical reasons why they shouldn't?
iirc: at the end of it all you changed your argument to basically say that bow is underpowered and that's why it should have two set pieces.
Edit: apologies, it appears that the post I'm referring to wasn't created by you.Edited by Sunburnt_Penguin on April 12, 2016 8:35AM0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well, I suppose bow is a general special case in that it may be a little underwhelming in the open field... on the other hand, it has its uses in other situations. But speaking as an PvP archer for a main person... I really wish I could do my archering from behind a shield wall sometimesIf you choose bow you got neither damage nor set bonus, and with spammable gap closers no range
0 -
Steel-256✭✭✭I really would like to see all two handed weapons count as actual two items for set bonuses. It would help in making better builds and more diverse gameplay. But thats just my opinion. Notice people its just an opinion. Hope the devs would implement it though. LOL Have a great one everyone.STEEL PURE MAN0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no logical reason to let one weapon count as 2 pieces of gear.
And even if, you'd have to do the same for bow, resto staff and destro staff.
I think he is talking about all 2H weapons since he is comparing DW to bow.
Logic can be argued either way. It is a design choice. Considering there are times magicka builds shine most and are mostly using 2H weapons it does not seem to be a huge issue. May even require some slight changes to formulas or otherwise to adjust.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭necro much?Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0