Scale Craglorn

Mashille · April 2016

Scale Craglorn like Wrothgar and Hew's Bane.

At the moment it's pretty much pointless, other than for getting Nirn, it should all be scaled as well as the Trials to actually make it worth something. Scale it so it can all be done from VR 1 to VR 16 together.

emily3989 · April 2016

Makes no sense that they keep putting so much time into scaleable PVE content DLC when Craglorn is a desolate wasteland that could easily be used as such.

Mashille · April 2016

@emily3989

It's the only way ZOS seems to register things thb. They don't really make changes until their's at least 200 topics on something.

emily3989 · April 2016

Sorry mate, that was a little salty, I edited my post.

Mashille · April 2016

I'll stick a further reason on there too. Atm people with no DLC have no good way to Farm VR 16 Materials, scaling Craglorn would let people do that who don;t own DLC. (Not a personal problem, I'm ESO+)

@emily3989 Nah, it's cool man

Morimizo · April 2016

I completely agree, and they should add a delve daily as well.

That said, Wrothgar is a better template for PvE, because it has good large group content (the WBs ), smaller group content (Public Dungeons-though still very soloable) and lots of solo content. If Craglorn had some solo activities (and I mean for normal players, and by design), more people would visit.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

keybaud wrote: »

Scale Craglorn like Wrothgar and Hew's Bane.

At the moment it's pretty much pointless, other than for getting Nirn, it should all be scaled as well as the Trials to actually make it worth something. Scale it so it can all be done from VR 1 to VR 16 together.

This is the same mistake I see a lot of other MMO's falling prey to. They create interesting content that no one does because it is no longer rewarding in any way shape or form. By making everything scaleable they can keep us interested in a wide array of choices. Let US choose what we feel like playing, you'll make more money ZoS.

Mashille · April 2016

@Morimizo

Maybe they should just overhaul it so you aren't required a group of 4 for some quests. The Delves are soloable anyway but if they made so all the content could still be completed without a 4 man party but still with Dailies and Group events like Wrothgar that would be really good.

kojou · April 2016

The unfortunate truth is given the revenue model the money is in providing new zones, not upgrading old ones.

I suppose they could sell the Craglorn Zone upgrade in the crown store, but that would probably be met with a lot of harsh words since Craglorn was part of the BTP offering.

I would, however, pay for and support leveling the zone if it was offered. I actually really like that zone, and remember lots of good times there when it was actually hard to complete, but now it is just a place to get Nirn and skyshards.

Morimizo · April 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@Morimizo

Maybe they should just overhaul it so you aren't required a group of 4 for some quests. The Delves are soloable anyway but if they made so all the content could still be completed without a 4 man party but still with Dailies and Group events like Wrothgar that would be really good.

I would actually really like them to remove the 4-man required button pushing, even if they didn't touch the difficulty; probably wouldn't be harder than what Vet Maelstrom dishes out.

Thelon · April 2016

The real issue for ZOS is that Craglorn is their Vanilla End-game content. If you only buy the box and no DLC, this is the final zone. It looks really bad on the product when it's desolate, and discourages newcomers from delving deeper into the game (I.e. buying DLCs)

VR removal may help increase the challenge factor within the zone's content, but incentive to be there needs to be addressed. Badly.

swirve · April 2016

emily3989 wrote: »

Makes no sense that they keep putting so much time into scaleable PVE content DLC when Craglorn is a desolate wasteland that could easily be used as such.

Craglorn is belkarth guide traders to bank...nothing else exists...youll see hundreds of traders back n forth in belkarth.

The Uninvited · April 2016

keybaud wrote: »

Scale Craglorn like Wrothgar and Hew's Bane.

At the moment it's pretty much pointless, other than for getting Nirn, it should all be scaled as well as the Trials to actually make it worth something. Scale it so it can all be done from VR 1 to VR 16 together.

Quest bosses and delve bosses should be as hard as the world bosses in Wrothgar. I absolutely love the way Craglorn looks, but hate the fact that it's so easy now.

Callous2208 · April 2016

I am with you on this mate. I have campaigned for this in threads as well. One of the best designed zones in the game is utterly wasted. I know the naysayers scream and cry that forced group content is a bad idea but come on. This game is now 90% soloable and we all know the dungeons like the back of our hands. Open world, scaled group content is sorely needed. Craglorn fits this bill. Daily quest delves, scaled rewards, motif drops, and boom. Craglorn is alive again.

Divinius · April 2016

keybaud wrote: »

I'll stick a further reason on there too. Atm people with no DLC have no good way to Farm VR 16 Materials, scaling Craglorn would let people do that who don;t own DLC.

That is actually exactly why they likely won't update Craglorn to work like Wrothgar and Hew's Bane.

Think about it: They would have to put developmental effort into a zone that they can't charge crowns to access, which would actually reduce the need for people to buy the DLC... They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they updated Craglorn to be as useful as DLC zones.

Mashille · April 2016

@Divinius

I know I shoudln't but I have a tiny sliver of hope that ZOS won't be 100% greedy and will work to improve the game as a whole, rather than juts making the big ones.

Acharnor · April 2016

Well I would love to see this too - I think this scaled content is the best. Craglorn is a cool place. I would love to see more people in it when I am there other than the Farmers of Nirn. I have had a few good outings there and some of the content is just tops. And DragonStar what a gem.

m0riarty23 · April 2016

Well i have a feeling that they are working on tweaking Craglorn when they drop the VET levels. It would be great if they auto leveled the zone like Wrothgaurd. But remember, these types of tweaks will come WITH another DLC/upgrade. They will never JUST spend a DLC cycle just on Craglorn, mainly because people would $#@%! them selves if something "new" didn't show up.

Zenimax will always have to sell a quarterly DLC in order to keep the lights on. So they must balance new content resources with tweets to current content. So where Craglorn tweaks fall in the list of: Class Balance, Lag issues, Removing VET, Retooling the Cadwell zones, finesse the justice system for new content, bug fixes, grouping tool adjustments, guild banking tools, etc... who knows.

m0riarty23 · April 2016

oh.... and if they to retool Craglorn, i do agree with removing the 4 man required "switches/puzzles" A group of 3 of us who were doing quite well got shut down several times in Craglorn, and we just lost interest.

Averya_Teira · April 2016

keybaud wrote: »

I'll stick a further reason on there too. Atm people with no DLC have no good way to Farm VR 16 Materials, scaling Craglorn would let people do that who don;t own DLC. (Not a personal problem, I'm ESO+)

@emily3989 Nah, it's cool man

I think that's exactly WHY they don't do it lol.

nimander99 · April 2016

SCALE EVERYTHING!

ADarklore · April 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

I am with you on this mate. I have campaigned for this in threads as well. One of the best designed zones in the game is utterly wasted. I know the naysayers scream and cry that forced group content is a bad idea but come on. This game is now 90% soloable and we all know the dungeons like the back of our hands. Open world, scaled group content is sorely needed. Craglorn fits this bill. Daily quest delves, scaled rewards, motif drops, and boom. Craglorn is alive again.

And that's because the majority of players play this game SOLO. Forced group content turns off the majority of players and thus makes the content worthless to them... and as you can see from the results, it sits idle since nobody wants to group to play them and as newer DLCs are released, it makes Craglorn even less appealing. However, if they removed the group 'switches' from the area, I am betting that you'd see a resurgence of Craglorn as the soloists who never ventured there before because they've heard it's a 'group only' area would then go there to complete it.

cjwilke_ESO · April 2016

Agreed...there is this huge zone that Zenimax put so much time and effort into that no one goes to and some people can't go to even if they wanted because they can't find a group. I am a completionist and want to experience everything in the game, even just the quests and likely will never get to experience it. First step is to at least make it doable with a duo (like WB's and dolmens in other zones) if not totally make it soloable and scalable.

phreatophile · April 2016

Yes. But take it further: Scale Craglorn, all Vet silver, and all Vet Gold zones and make available a scaled version of own alliance zones.

ArchMikem · April 2016

Scaling it would help me a bit, but that doesn't change the fact that the Quests in that zone require you to be in a group, and here I am, so very ronery.

Enodoc · April 2016

When VRs are removed, there will be no VR1 - VR16 to scale to, so it won't be possible to scale Craglorn (or the Silver/Gold zones). It won't be long now before we find out what the VR removal is going to do to these zones (it's going to have to do something), so we should probably wait until after that, or come up with suggestions that have that at the forefront.

Here's my suggestion:

Introductory point: VRs are removed, so it is already the case that VR1-16 can do it together, as everyone is Level 50.
Craglorn (increased viability and ease of grouping):
- Make all Group Delves public instead of instanced (like levelling zone delves already are)
- Add most of the Group Dailies to the Dungeon Finder (the ones that take place in instances)
- Restore the "World" part of the LFG tool, so groups can be created for the rest of the Group Dailies, as well as Anomalies/Burial Sites/Nirn Mines
- Remove any forced grouping restriction (x players to open this door)
Silver/Gold Zones (maintaining progression with no VRs):
- Having more CPs makes content easier, so gear each Silver/Gold zone to a certain number of CPs...
- ...but don't make it so that all the Gold zones are harder than the Silver zones
- Primary progression is between tiers, rather than between Silver and Gold (Gold Zone 1 shouldn't being balanced to a higher CP number than Silver Zone 5, as that doesn't help the "visit either alliance first" ethos at all; people want to be able to choose one or the other or neither)
- For example:
  Silver Zone 1 - 0 CP
  Gold Zone 1 - 12 CP
  Silver Zone 2 - 42 CP
  Gold Zone 2 - 54 CP
  Silver Zone 3 - 84 CP
  Gold Zone 3 - 96 CP
  Silver Zone 4 - 126 CP
  Gold Zone 4 - 158 CP
  Silver Zone 5 - 168 CP
  Gold Zone 5 - 180 CP
Level 50 version of your home territory (with dailies so there's something to do there)

Callous2208 · April 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

When VRs are removed, there will be no VR1 - VR16 to scale to, so it won't be possible to scale Craglorn (or the Silver/Gold zones). It won't be long now before we find out what the VR removal is going to do to these zones (it's going to have to do something), so we should probably wait until after that, or come up with suggestions that have that at the forefront.

Here's my suggestion:
Introductory point: VRs are removed, so it is already the case that VR1-16 can do it together, as everyone is Level 50.

Craglorn (increased viability and ease of grouping):
Make all Group Delves public instead of instanced (like levelling zone delves already are)

Add most of the Group Dailies to the Dungeon Finder (the ones that take place in instances)

Restore the "World" part of the LFG tool, so groups can be created for the rest of the Group Dailies, as well as Anomalies/Burial Sites/Nirn Mines

Remove any forced grouping restriction (x players to open this door)

Silver/Gold Zones (maintaining progression with no VRs):
Having more CPs makes content easier, so gear each Silver/Gold zone to a certain number of CPs...

...but don't make it so that all the Gold zones are harder than the Silver zones

Primary progression is between tiers, rather than between Silver and Gold (Gold Zone 1 shouldn't being balanced to a higher CP number than Silver Zone 5, as that doesn't help the "visit either alliance first" ethos at all; people want to be able to choose one or the other or neither)

For example:
Silver Zone 1 - 0 CP
Gold Zone 1 - 12 CP
Silver Zone 2 - 42 CP
Gold Zone 2 - 54 CP
Silver Zone 3 - 84 CP
Gold Zone 3 - 96 CP
Silver Zone 4 - 126 CP
Gold Zone 4 - 158 CP
Silver Zone 5 - 168 CP
Gold Zone 5 - 180 CP

Level 50 version of your home territory (with dailies so there's something to do there)

Fantastic suggestion.

Callous2208 · April 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

I am with you on this mate. I have campaigned for this in threads as well. One of the best designed zones in the game is utterly wasted. I know the naysayers scream and cry that forced group content is a bad idea but come on. This game is now 90% soloable and we all know the dungeons like the back of our hands. Open world, scaled group content is sorely needed. Craglorn fits this bill. Daily quest delves, scaled rewards, motif drops, and boom. Craglorn is alive again.

And that's because the majority of players play this game SOLO. Forced group content turns off the majority of players and thus makes the content worthless to them... and as you can see from the results, it sits idle since nobody wants to group to play them and as newer DLCs are released, it makes Craglorn even less appealing. However, if they removed the group 'switches' from the area, I am betting that you'd see a resurgence of Craglorn as the soloists who never ventured there before because they've heard it's a 'group only' area would then go there to complete it.

And yet there is a large group saying they are bored but don't want to complete silver or gold because it's a tedious lonely grind. People really need to branch out and make a few friends in this mmo. I wouldn't even mind if it was content meant for a 2 man squad. This constant solo content is getting stale.

CaptainBeerDude · April 2016

No thanks. I think it should remain challenging. Open it up to all alliances in one zone to make it easier to group. Also add it to the infamous group finder. and allow a chance of rubedite when harvesting. But nothing else. It would take away from some amazing vanilla content.

EDIT: I don't want it scaled at all. Make it all v16 equivalent.

Digiman · April 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@Morimizo

Maybe they should just overhaul it so you aren't required a group of 4 for some quests. The Delves are soloable anyway but if they made so all the content could still be completed without a 4 man party but still with Dailies and Group events like Wrothgar that would be really good.

Personally they should of never designed for 4 man in the first place, everyone who has played an MMO knows that as soon as new easier content for higher levels would abandon it.

It was a stupid pointless gimmick that has left a good load of the content gated out for players to enjoy even by themselves.

I agree that they need to remove the requirement and scale the resources there as it would bring life back to the zone.

ADarklore · April 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

I am with you on this mate. I have campaigned for this in threads as well. One of the best designed zones in the game is utterly wasted. I know the naysayers scream and cry that forced group content is a bad idea but come on. This game is now 90% soloable and we all know the dungeons like the back of our hands. Open world, scaled group content is sorely needed. Craglorn fits this bill. Daily quest delves, scaled rewards, motif drops, and boom. Craglorn is alive again.

And that's because the majority of players play this game SOLO. Forced group content turns off the majority of players and thus makes the content worthless to them... and as you can see from the results, it sits idle since nobody wants to group to play them and as newer DLCs are released, it makes Craglorn even less appealing. However, if they removed the group 'switches' from the area, I am betting that you'd see a resurgence of Craglorn as the soloists who never ventured there before because they've heard it's a 'group only' area would then go there to complete it.

And yet there is a large group saying they are bored but don't want to complete silver or gold because it's a tedious lonely grind. People really need to branch out and make a few friends in this mmo. I wouldn't even mind if it was content meant for a 2 man squad. This constant solo content is getting stale.

It might be getting stale for YOU and some others... but when the majority of players are solo players, who would you rather risk alienating, a minority group or the majority?

I've heard, albeit not confirmed by ZOS that I know of, that they are working on another DLC that is more 'group' oriented... although I would expect that this zone would be soloable as well, or risk the DLC not selling to the majority of players.

I don't play ESO because it's an online game, I play it because it's a game with awesome content, fun quests, and is constantly being updated and expanded and will last for years... along with having other players whose involvement brings variety to the game experience. No matter how many times I've leveled a new character, the leveling itself is always unique thanks to encountering other players along the way. These are all things you don't find in a single player game, and no, we don't need to 'make friends' or socialize with anyone in order to enjoy the game. However, the enjoyment could be even greater if they would open up Craglorn to make it completely soloable, which would breathe new life into the old zone.