So Which Skyrim is Canon?

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

A lot of things in this game just can't be Canon City sizes is the least of them.

Elaborate?

•Argonians "working" for House Dres? The Slaver House is opening enslaving Argonians? This would make the Pact of Ebonheart Null and Void.

•The author of the Lusty Argonian Maid was not yet born in this point of time.

•This is BEFORE Talo so Cyrodiil should be a jungle not rolling hills and farmable land reshaping the land with an unknown shout is one of the signs that he was a living God and not just a warlord.

•Most of the racial powers are more MMO fan service then it is Elder Scrolls history. Cherry picking racials should never be a thing but having three unique paths for a given race would make more sense that one set of passives for each path. Nord warriors and mages have two different things going for them.

•....Mounts their are many cool and bada$$ mounts in Elder Scrolls lore flaming, frost and undead horses were not needed to shake it up.
Rhinos, Wamesu, Camos Tigers and more are all here and free for use.

•Guilds wouldn't have this wide of a spread solo game yes you're the exception to all the rules, but multiplayer no their are NPCs everywhere that say that they don't get in a Stamina Archer Assassin holding the title of Master Wizard is wrong on every level.

•The War less a few camps here and there is contained in Cyrodiil if this much of the fight is not in the home land why have huge armies to defend what's not being hit?

•Imperials have lost all the towns and keeps to the three Banner Armies and now have the Armies battling it out in the districts and sewers what do they control how are they still a thing when they are this outmanned and outgun?

I could go on for a while with this you can't have books ingame with great details about the time before Talos and then ignore it all. That's not how following the history works you follow the history or you make your own thing. But you can't do both this game would be killer if it was full MMO with Elder Scrolls skin or full Elder Scrolls in an MMO landscape but it's trying to be both and that's not a winning mix.

I do think the Argonian point is a rough one. I'm more or less in your camp with regard to racial powers, I think every race should be more or less capable of being a master (insert title here). With regard to the mounts I can live with elemental ice horses, fire horses, or skeletal horses but within the context that players are not the norm. The Vestige represents something unusual on the order of the Nerevarine or Dragonborn, possibly moreso given his propensity to die and reform over and over. I can live with a little bit unusual, though I have to say I'd like to see more things like the Camel or even a war elephant. My general preference is to use creatures which fit the theme best. I'd love to see a young Silt Strider as a mount, for instance, and it is certainly unusual and entirely believable for a Telvanni Vestige. The Guar is fantastic as well, so I don't fret much over mounts though I do understand the concern.

It isn't perfect but I still enjoy what is there, even though I consent there are some inconsistencies. The artwork certainly looks very familiar in places like Riften, for instance, even though they are different.

MasterSpatula · April 2016

You were always supposed to use your imagination to fill in the gaps in the locations of TES games, both in the cities and the countryside. Otherwise the cities would be small villages and the provinces would be neighborhood parks. Only Daggerfall really depicted the scope of its province.

So, really, there's no conflict. You're just focusing on Eastmarch or The Rift or the Imperial City in ESO differently than you were in Skyrim or Oblivion.

Tryxus · April 2016

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Only Daggerfall really depicted the scope of its province.

Where's my Gothway Garden?!

KhajiitiLizard · April 2016

To the guy saying that Cyrodiil used to be a jungle is correct, but that is a known Dragon Break... Cyrodiil was actually changed in the past because of it. There is even a book in game about it.

Appleblade · April 2016

My solution:

ESO is a close parallel universe to the ES main series.

(Goes back to playing)

Elsonso · April 2016

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

But both Skyrim's are Canon.

End of discussion.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I could go on for a while with this you can't have books ingame with great details about the time before Talos and then ignore it all.

A lot of what you say is just disagreement with game design, or game implementation. Not really lore related.

The most important thing to remember about lore in Elder Scrolls is that it is not factual, but instead it is anecdotal. This means that it comes from the "people" in the game world, but not necessarily witnesses to the events that they write about, and are not necessarily accurate. It means that it can be wrong, the result of a faulty interpretation, or just a political perspective of what really happened.

Cyrodiil may have been a jungle at one time, but not at the time of ESO. Whatever "historian" said that was obviously wrong.

What breaks lore in the game for me are geological differences between now and the events of Arena->Skyrim, not social and political things.

The inclusion of the various lore books from the future in ESO was a master stroke of brilliance, as far as I am concerned. It is the best way to both introduce and reinforce the lore of the game for players who have not experienced TES before. We can thank Hermaeus Mora for those books, by the way.

mb10 · April 2016

Neither are canon. Have a look at Paris or London 1000 years ago and have a look now.

Its like saying "Either London 1000 years ago didn't exist or London today isn't reality."

Things change

ArchMikem · April 2016

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

really flesh out the level of detail in hub cities, and the map has stayed true more or less in shape as well as the locations of the cities. However it's obvious the locations themselves have been seriously reworked and are almost completely different (and much larger) than their TES:V counterparts.

Does the Skyrim in Elder Scrolls Online get Canon by default due to it being more thoroughly designed?

are u high?
ESV citys were alot more detailed and bigger, take Windhelm as comparison, theres no contest really, in ESV it feels like a city, in ESO it feels like a town

No it doesn't. "Cities" in TES:V were small and cramped. They were basically villages with big stone buildings, enough space to probably house twenty people? ESO Windhelm is large in comparison, a proper large town/city.

And I'm not high.

Volkodav · April 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

So since Elder Scrolls Online takes us back to at least a part of Skyrim, we've been able to revisit certain locations we've seen before in our playthroughs of The Elder Scrolls V. I understand that Zenimax had better hardware to work with in order to really flesh out the level of detail in hub cities, and the map has stayed true more or less in shape as well as the locations of the cities. However it's obvious the locations themselves have been seriously reworked and are almost completely different (and much larger) than their TES:V counterparts.

So really, which version of Skyrim is supposed to be Canon to the universe now, Bethesda's Skyrim, or Zenimax's? Does the Skyrim in Elder Scrolls Online get Canon by default due to it being more thoroughly designed?

I wasnt aware that there is a zone called Skyrim in the game.I know there are places that are much like Skyrim. Such as the Rift,or Bleakrock Island,but where is the name of Skyrim?
Which area is it named that?
I know I might seem a noob,but I'm not.Been ingame since it was in betas.
However,I dont know everything,and if there really is a Skyrim and I am missing it,I would rather learn than be in the dark about it.

KhajiitiLizard · April 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

So since Elder Scrolls Online takes us back to at least a part of Skyrim, we've been able to revisit certain locations we've seen before in our playthroughs of The Elder Scrolls V. I understand that Zenimax had better hardware to work with in order to really flesh out the level of detail in hub cities, and the map has stayed true more or less in shape as well as the locations of the cities. However it's obvious the locations themselves have been seriously reworked and are almost completely different (and much larger) than their TES:V counterparts.

So really, which version of Skyrim is supposed to be Canon to the universe now, Bethesda's Skyrim, or Zenimax's? Does the Skyrim in Elder Scrolls Online get Canon by default due to it being more thoroughly designed?

I wasnt aware that there is a zone called Skyrim in the game.I know there are places that are much like Skyrim. Such as the Rift,or Bleakrock Island,but where is the name of Skyrim?
Which area is it named that?
I know I might seem a noob,but I'm not.Been ingame since it was in betas.
However,I dont know everything,and if there really is a Skyrim and I am missing it,I would rather learn than be in the dark about it.

Skyrim is the province that Eastmarch and the Rift are in. At the time of ESO I guess it's considered considered a kingdom.

Volkodav · April 2016

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

So since Elder Scrolls Online takes us back to at least a part of Skyrim, we've been able to revisit certain locations we've seen before in our playthroughs of The Elder Scrolls V. I understand that Zenimax had better hardware to work with in order to really flesh out the level of detail in hub cities, and the map has stayed true more or less in shape as well as the locations of the cities. However it's obvious the locations themselves have been seriously reworked and are almost completely different (and much larger) than their TES:V counterparts.

So really, which version of Skyrim is supposed to be Canon to the universe now, Bethesda's Skyrim, or Zenimax's? Does the Skyrim in Elder Scrolls Online get Canon by default due to it being more thoroughly designed?

I wasnt aware that there is a zone called Skyrim in the game.I know there are places that are much like Skyrim. Such as the Rift,or Bleakrock Island,but where is the name of Skyrim?
Which area is it named that?
I know I might seem a noob,but I'm not.Been ingame since it was in betas.
However,I dont know everything,and if there really is a Skyrim and I am missing it,I would rather learn than be in the dark about it.

Skyrim is the province that Eastmarch and the Rift are in. At the time of ESO I guess it's considered considered a kingdom.

Oh I figured these two places were the insinuated regions,nbut they arent actually called Skyrim ingame. We just tend to refer to them as such.I was just thinking that if there is the word Skyrim on the map and I was missing it,I'd like to know.I've always known that Eastmarch and the Rift were ESO's version of Skyrim.
Also,one could say those are versions of the Bloodmoon expansion for Morrowind.

ArchMikem · April 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

Oh I figured these two places were the insinuated regions,nbut they arent actually called Skyrim ingame. We just tend to refer to them as such.I was just thinking that if there is the word Skyrim on the map and I was missing it,I'd like to know.I've always known that Eastmarch and the Rift were ESO's version of Skyrim.
Also,one could say those are versions of the Bloodmoon expansion for Morrowind.

NPC's, mostly the Nords sometimes refer to Skyrim when they talk about home or other such things. Skyrim is a province. Like Khajiitlizard said, Eastmarch and The Rift are zones, or Holds as they're called in-game, in the land of Skyrim. The other seven Holds are west of the playable game map.

If you've been with the game this long I'm surprised this confused you. You should look up a Map of Tamriel and read the Elder Scrolls Wiki sometime.

Lenikus · April 2016

ESo is canon.
period.
There are 'issues' with the racials, and the books (lusty argonian) and yes teh ebonheart pact IS null and void.
However, those are not "Lore" concepts, they are in the game as either Mechanics, FunnyReferencesAndEasterEggs(of sorts), and again, mechanics. They had to adapt this game to be a 3-sided MMORPG with actual PvP content and a PvE story.
Some tweaks had to be made.

Volkodav · April 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Oh I figured these two places were the insinuated regions,nbut they arent actually called Skyrim ingame. We just tend to refer to them as such.I was just thinking that if there is the word Skyrim on the map and I was missing it,I'd like to know.I've always known that Eastmarch and the Rift were ESO's version of Skyrim.
Also,one could say those are versions of the Bloodmoon expansion for Morrowind.

NPC's, mostly the Nords sometimes refer to Skyrim when they talk about home or other such things. Skyrim is a province. Like Khajiitlizard said, Eastmarch and The Rift are zones, or Holds as they're called in-game, in the land of Skyrim. The other seven Holds are west of the playable game map.

If you've been with the game this long I'm surprised this confused you. You should look up a Map of Tamriel and read the Elder Scrolls Wiki sometime.

Actually,I have been with the game that long,since the first betas.I just dont tend to listen to random NPCs. Also,I have played both Morrowind since 2002,and have Skyrim on Steam,so I understand the "holds" bit. What I was wondering about was if it was an official thing I had missed,and it isnt. Just references,etc.

Arthmoor · April 2016

Both are canon. The timeline is long enough that the 700 years between ESO and TES 4 means Cyrodiil could have changed a lot (and I mean A LOT - milegates anyone?) and that the 900 years between ESO and Skyrim changes a lot too.

As far as major geological changes, Nirn is not only geologically active on its own, there are figures in lore capable of radically altering things at their whim, summed up nicely by the quote "CHIM. Those who know it can reshape the land."

Talos knew it, and thus Cyrodiil is no longer a jungle - and quite possible ceased to be one in the past as well as a side effect of his changing it. It might very well be that the details of exactly what he did caused Skyrim to change dramatically too and that's why there's a much different province in 4E 201 than there is in 2E 583.

You can expect whatever province TES 6 takes place in to be quite different from what ESO depicts too.

Mojmir · April 2016

Its all Canon,fresh vegetables in every ancient barrow

KhajiitiLizard · April 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Its all Canon,fresh vegetables in every ancient barrow

It was the same in Skyrim as in ESO... you'd fine fresh food in millennia old Nordic ruins.

Elsonso · April 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

So since Elder Scrolls Online takes us back to at least a part of Skyrim, we've been able to revisit certain locations we've seen before in our playthroughs of The Elder Scrolls V. I understand that Zenimax had better hardware to work with in order to really flesh out the level of detail in hub cities, and the map has stayed true more or less in shape as well as the locations of the cities. However it's obvious the locations themselves have been seriously reworked and are almost completely different (and much larger) than their TES:V counterparts.

So really, which version of Skyrim is supposed to be Canon to the universe now, Bethesda's Skyrim, or Zenimax's? Does the Skyrim in Elder Scrolls Online get Canon by default due to it being more thoroughly designed?

I wasnt aware that there is a zone called Skyrim in the game.I know there are places that are much like Skyrim. Such as the Rift,or Bleakrock Island,but where is the name of Skyrim?
Which area is it named that?
I know I might seem a noob,but I'm not.Been ingame since it was in betas.
However,I dont know everything,and if there really is a Skyrim and I am missing it,I would rather learn than be in the dark about it.

There is no "zone" in ESO called Skyrim, obviously, but your question does bring up an interesting follow up...

As far as I know, history does not state when "that which shall be known as Skyrim" started to be called "Skyrim". Like many place names, it was probably not called that from the start. Eventually, someone came along and named it "Skyrim" and that name stuck. It is possible that "the northernmost province" is simply referred to as "Skyrim" in all the lore text because that is what it is called at the time when a lot of the lore was written, interpreted, or copied, and a lot of the artifacts that we might see were created. People may have simply used "Skyrim" out of familiarity. Alduin's Wall, which comes from the 1st Era and is one of the oldest and most reliable lore references, depicted the prophesy in pictures, not words.

However, at the time of ESO, it is "Skyrim".