DjSolJAH wrote: »

L2P, adapt and evolve... Stop posting the same topic over and over again. A simple search on the forum will bring up 20 of these threads

Mythk wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

And what if I said sorcs should L2P, adapt, and evolve to play without being carried by an overpowered mechanic? Maybe this topic keeps getting brought up because its a valid issue that keeps going unaddressed patch after patch after patch? Simply dropping a cliched l2p doesnt change any of the imbalances I've brought up or the fact that sorc overperforms compared to other classes.

Well then I'd tell you that I've easily beaten sorcerers on my mag NB, mag temp, and stam temp this patch, and when sorcerers were broken in 1.6, I beat them with my mag DK back then as well.

Seriously, this sounds like a bit of a L2P issue, any class played right is able to beat any other class.

Minalan wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

No, but seriously, scale igneous shield off magika. The sorc tears will be delicious

I'm game. While we're at it, can Sorc have reflect too?

DjKahun wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

The only shield stacking that annoys me is hardened ward + harness stacking. Stamina builds are fine they have to get through 1 shield (because healing ward is a heal believe it or not) but magicka builds have to get through around 25k worth of shields which you can't crit before they can even touch a sorc's hp...

Not sure why zos decided to give stamina the shield stack counter when stamina builds have never had a problem with sorc.

Either make shields critable and gives shields something like 10-20% crit dmg reduction while they are on.

Or make hardened + harness not stackable. So every other magicka build actually has a chance to get through the shields...

You could even make the large shields such a harness/hardened as primary shields and if you use 2 primary shields then the second shield put on is only 30% as effective... or something like that.

Maybe with any of this changes sorc will have to give up some dmg for survivability and not increase both at once.

E.g. They can't go 3 infused/4 divines anymore any will have to slot some impen, some sorc may not use harness anymore in open world so will have to give up some dmg or something for more sustain.

What stops any other magicka class from using Harness Magicka? I got a stamina class & a sorc myself, I don't think it's the issue with the actual shields but mostly l2p issue, as someone mentioned before sorcs don't have much stamina at all that's why I always run stam/tri stat pots but once you do run out of stamina you are just dead.

NativeJoe wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

I am not one to call for nerfs often. In my entire time on the forums, I have made only one other similar post in regards to the single target damage on proxy det. I only make this post when I feel something is truly unbalanced and needs to be addressed, and that's how I feel about magicka sorc right now. And the reason I'm compelled to make this post at this time is because I strongly believe that outside Magicka Sorc, everything else in the game is fairly well balanced right now. I'd love to see them finally address this issue and be done with it. As always, balance concerns are mostly a matter of opinion. These are simply my opinions and anyone is welcome to argue against them. So to the point, here are the 4 major factors that make magicka sorc unbalanced:

Easy Optimization- For every other magicka class, you can either spec for high tankiness or high damage. Not both. Trade offs have to be considered and calculated decisions made. If you go max damage, you sacrifice tankiness. If you go max tankiness, you sacrifice damage. Ask any magicka DK, templar, or NB and its the same story- optimizing these builds is a matter of great theory crafting, tweaking, and balancing to find what configuration works for you personally. Magicka Sorceror is the only class where you get optimal tankiness and optimal damage with the same set up, just stack max magicka and spell damage and you get the best of both worlds. As a result, optimizing a magicka Sorc is easier, more simplistic, and more advantageous than on any other class or playstyle. This is not balanced.

Easy Survivability- For every other class and playstyle, survivability means using a host of skills, techniques, and game mechanics to stay alive- many abilities, heals, shields, buffs, and actual game mechanics like blocking and dodging. Sorc survivability can literally be summed up in 3 skills: hardened ward, healing ward, harness magicka. And then if thats not enough, just streak away for long enough to reset the fight. Is it not obvious what the problem is here? To see anywhere close to the level of survivability a sorc has, any and every other class/spec has to work much harder and make much more input. Spamming shields provides wayy too much output for the input it requires. As such, damage mitigation on a sorc is much easier and more simplistic than on any other class or playstyle. This is not balanced.

Perpetual Crit Immunity- Weapon/Spell Critical is a major dynamic in PvP that has offensive and defensive ramifications for every class and playstyle. Once again tho, Sorc is the one class that gets to play outside the rules and operate apart from every other class and playstyle. Can anyone justify how it is fair that one class have essentially immunity from a major game mechanic simply due to the nature of that class' defensive scheme?? How is that balanced? I'd love to run infused/divines on my stamina DK or magicka templar to pump their stats as high as possible. When I slap my PvE gear on these toons, I cant help but wonder how AWESOME it would be to have the luxury of PvPing with such high stats. But then I have to accept the reality that Impen gear offers these toons much more benefit in the grand scheme of things. Not on my sorc tho, there I get to rock infused and divines while still being just as tanky as w/o it. Once again the 'play outside the rules' class gets to have its cake and eat it too. Every other class has to heavily consider the effect of critical hits on their performance and build accordingly. Sorc does not. This is not balanced.

Unbalanced Champion System- Shattering Blows is not a nerf to sorcs, it is an overdue balancing measure that is completely irrelevant. Shattering blows should have been in the champ system from the get go considering bastion existed from the start. But here is the reality as long as CPs are capped and as long as most people have less than 1000 or so to spend. There is absolutely no incentive for non-sorcs to invest in shattering blows to counter one playstyle whereas there is all the incentive in the world for sorcs to invest in bastion to counter every single other playstyle. Not much else to say here, this is not balanced.

These are the four major complaints I have regarding balance with this class, and balance with this class is the only complaint I have with balance in general. Thats why I took the time to write this out today. Unlike many nerf posts which are driven by vandetta but lack perspective, understand that my most played character is a sorc and I am not making this thread out of hatred or bias but rather a genuine concern for balance. It will be up to ZOS to come up with a solution, and there are many possible solutions. My point is not to propose a solution or push for a specific change. My point in making this post is to remind ZOS that this class STILL is not balanced. Much of the community seems to have become complacent with Sorcs being OP, but I am not cool with that. And I'm sick of seeing 'solutions' like shield breaker that blatantly admit there is an issue, but completely fail to address that issue in any meaningful way. "We admit that shield stacking is broken, here is a set that only stamina users can use at the cost of compromising an ideal build. Good luck, have fun". Its pathetic.

No more band aid fixes, no more gimmicks. Can you guys please just address the root problems with shield stacking and how shields mechanically operate so we can bury this topic already?

@Wrobel
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

You don't know what your talking about.

Optimization:You can't stack to 57k magicka and have great shields and high damage. it is a trade, often time you end up under the optimum amount of magicka chasing that elusive spell power number. and that can kill you in any sustained fight. And every dk, templar, and nb I know goes all points into magicka just like me. because They have other methods of mitigating damage and healing themselves up.

Survivability: not Every sorc plays this way, and if s/he is playing this defensivly, I don't think they're going to kill you. I know it's fustratiing fighting someone that u can't nail down and kill whenever you want, but I feel similar when it comes down to NB stealth, templar perma blockers, DK Regen builds, and the tones of people spamming gap closers and bombard... it's a playstyle.

perpetual crit immunity: can you not use a shield? there are 10 other shields besides ward that can give you the very same benefit. hell there is even enchantments o.o

CP: And the fact thermaturge boosts your wrecking blow damage...and just about every other type of damage doesn't bother you? why because it's not to your benefit to have it balanced?

If you don't like the way your playing your sorc with 3 shields. try a pet build, try a winterborn and ice staff, try phoenix set and vicious death, TRY ANY NUMBER OF OTHER COMBOS.... before you take down the viability of the entire class and end sorc tanking, pet builds,etc

There are sets to counter shield stackers, there are enchantments, there are stun locks, and there are plenty of burst builds/dot builds that can take down a shield...even one as high as 75k in pvp.

Stop this ridiculousness. Sorcs shields have been repeatedly nerfed. and now a single ward can't even block a full wrecking blow. where as historically it's been 1 strong attack to 1 shield. Enough is enough, if your being killed by sorcs ruthlessly more than any other class, POST PROOF.

IF anything, On the 100% legit side, the strength of ward needs to be slightly increased so it can maintain the 1 strong attack to 1 shield ratio, and so other 1 shield builds are still viable.

Just because Your at the party and drink to much , puke, and have to go to the hospital...doesn't mean the substance has to be made illegal, and all your friends have to stop drinking. See what im saying? just because your a shield stacker and play defensively, and take everything to the extreme there... doesn't mean we need to nerf the class for everyone else that is just using 1 shield and is playing offensively.


http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/248915/sorcs-need-a-shield-buff/p1 if you want to read deeper into the many points made in this thread.