Well another thing to add for 2h is an ultimate and I have two ideas

The first one called 'Tremble'
Description: leap up in the air and come crashing down slaming your blade with divine strength into the earth dealing x Physical dmg and set targets off balance

Morph 1: 'Empowering Tremble'
NEW EFFECT: Increased dmg and range grants empower and snares target for for 50% for 6 secs

Morph 2 'Deadly Smash'
NEW EFFECT: Causes major defile, minor protection and an additional 4% dmg reduction for each target hit


The second one is called 'Steel Edge'
Description: Build momentum and launch yourself in a deadly spin dealing x dmg every sec for 5 secs

Morph 1 'Steel cyclone
NEW EFFECT: deflects ranged projectile targeting you.

Morph 2 'Razors Edge'
NEW EFFECT: dmg is increase by 5% per target hit and also grants major expedition increasing movement speed by 30% for 5 secs.

There some fresh ideas
What are yours?

Destruent wrote: »

You should make clear, that your discussion is only for pvp.

Well its for both PVP and PVE. Why do these ideas seem wrong to you? Or am I conveying them incorrectly? If the second question is true I apologize as this is second forum post I'll try to be more clear in future posts

Destruent wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

You should make clear, that your discussion is only for pvp.

Well its for both PVP and PVE. Why do these ideas seem wrong to you? Or am I conveying them incorrectly? If the second question is true I apologize as this is second forum post I'll try to be more clear in future posts

(nearly) Everyone playing stamina in endgame pve is using DW/bow bc it's stronger than any specc with twohander. DW offers better sustained st-dps and far better AoE than twohander. Only place to use twohander in pve is vMSA, but even there i see templars and nbs using dw/bow.

Nonetheless i agree with you when talking about pvp, but even in pvp a lot of players (i think mostly NBs and templars) are using DW/bow.

twohander: singletarget dps-burst + a bit survivability
dw: aoe + sustained dps
bow: ranged dps + support dots

Just my2cents,
Destruent

Wow well that's true, I guess pve builds use brutality pots to get the weapon power and vigor as a self heal, I myself use dw/bow on my nightblade for solo pve but the swap to a 2h in dungeons and pvp. And rally shines on solo pvp and vMSA simply because it can be used outside of combat and has a decent heal.

vontariel wrote: »

Good idea to raise thread, but bad (imo) suggestions.
First of all, Tremble looks a lot like dragon leap. Even suggested morphs somewhat are similar to dragon leap morphs.
I'm sure, especially for ult we can have something better than clone with slight variation. And I'm especially against giving additional good stuff (like defile and % of damage reduction) - it makes too much for it.

Spin2Win with proper numbers could be either zerg buster (not bad thing) or quite good defence ulti. And while I'm totally against reflective scales (still are too good compared to other reflect skills), i kinda like this. But you lock yourself in 6 seconds in spin of death, and that's the part i don't like. Also speed buff is too much advantage.
Much better i think, it would be to make it toggle and cost X ult per second to spin.

If i have to give 2h ulti i'd go for something like:

Stampede - Low/medium cost (100-150), targetable with 5-8m circle. Rush to target location knocking all enemies in your way down dealing them low/low-to-medium damage. At target location all enemies are thrown in the air and are dealt moderate-to-high damage.
Juggernaut - enemies knocked down are stunned for 2s. Enemies thrown in the air are stunned for 2s after the fall, and this stun is unavoidable.
Berserker - enemies in your path are not knocked down but damage is increased to medium/modearte. Additionally, each enemy in targeted zone increase damage by 10%.

Interesting, I guess my suggestios were over the top, as for the tremble idea I mainly got it from an MMO called runescape where the ultimate there would function as I discribed it .Your ideas however seem quite reasonable hopefully the devs (if they add weapon ultis) can balance it properly.

I find it odd that morphs which reduce damage done by enemy to anyone are seen as " for tanking" while morphs that heal yourself are seen as combat necessities for others esp soloing.

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

You should make clear, that your discussion is only for pvp.

Well its for both PVP and PVE. Why do these ideas seem wrong to you? Or am I conveying them incorrectly? If the second question is true I apologize as this is second forum post I'll try to be more clear in future posts

(nearly) Everyone playing stamina in endgame pve is using DW/bow bc it's stronger than any specc with twohander. DW offers better sustained st-dps and far better AoE than twohander. Only place to use twohander in pve is vMSA, but even there i see templars and nbs using dw/bow.

Nonetheless i agree with you when talking about pvp, but even in pvp a lot of players (i think mostly NBs and templars) are using DW/bow.

twohander: singletarget dps-burst + a bit survivability
dw: aoe + sustained dps
bow: ranged dps + support dots

Just my2cents,
Destruent

Wow well that's true, I guess pve builds use brutality pots to get the weapon power and vigor as a self heal, I myself use dw/bow on my nightblade for solo pve but the swap to a 2h in dungeons and pvp. And rally shines on solo pvp and vMSA simply because it can be used outside of combat and has a decent heal.

The over-reliance on vigor does not exist in the fashion that you think it does in PvE. It makes less sense for a dps to have a heal on their bar in pve, period. That's what we have healers for, and even then, in most cases, the healer is doing damage too. I lead 4+ trial runs a week (including 2 vMoL runs) and in most cases, I do not want my dps using vigor instead of a damaging ability.

Most of the people I know will support the use of potions for their buffs. The potency, duration, and convenience of potions outweighs rally in pretty much every stam build I know, except for the heal. I can do brutality, savagery, and endurance with a single potion that is pretty much guaranteed to have 100% up-time (as long as I drink the potion every 45s). There are exceptions, such as stam sorcs (who have access to brutality) and often times will simply replace the brutality with something else.

Right now, ESO is all about damage. The more AoE DoTs you can fit into your rotation, the better. Taking rally and evil hunter off your bar and getting your buffs through potions is something people do all the time. And the reason so many people turn to bow as their secondary weapon for stam builds is because it has one of the strongest AoE DoTs in the game (arguably the strongest with a vMA bow). 2H AoE damage comes nowhere close, simply because you can just cast Arrow Barrage and move on to the rest of your skills in your rotation. The best you can do with 2H is spam Brawler... and that's not very effective.

I could argue against how useful "all five" skills in 2H are, but to save time, I'll just say that they aren't as good as you are implying. Just to clarify, this is all from a pve perspective. I don't necessarily think that what you've said is untrue as it pertains to pvp.

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

You should make clear, that your discussion is only for pvp.

Well its for both PVP and PVE. Why do these ideas seem wrong to you? Or am I conveying them incorrectly? If the second question is true I apologize as this is second forum post I'll try to be more clear in future posts

(nearly) Everyone playing stamina in endgame pve is using DW/bow bc it's stronger than any specc with twohander. DW offers better sustained st-dps and far better AoE than twohander. Only place to use twohander in pve is vMSA, but even there i see templars and nbs using dw/bow.

Nonetheless i agree with you when talking about pvp, but even in pvp a lot of players (i think mostly NBs and templars) are using DW/bow.

twohander: singletarget dps-burst + a bit survivability
dw: aoe + sustained dps
bow: ranged dps + support dots

Just my2cents,
Destruent

Wow well that's true, I guess pve builds use brutality pots to get the weapon power and vigor as a self heal, I myself use dw/bow on my nightblade for solo pve but the swap to a 2h in dungeons and pvp. And rally shines on solo pvp and vMSA simply because it can be used outside of combat and has a decent heal.

The over-reliance on vigor does not exist in the fashion that you think it does in PvE. It makes less sense for a dps to have a heal on their bar in pve, period. That's what we have healers for, and even then, in most cases, the healer is doing damage too. I lead 4+ trial runs a week (including 2 vMoL runs) and in most cases, I do not want my dps using vigor instead of a damaging ability.

Most of the people I know will support the use of potions for their buffs. The potency, duration, and convenience of potions outweighs rally in pretty much every stam build I know, except for the heal. I can do brutality, savagery, and endurance with a single potion that is pretty much guaranteed to have 100% up-time (as long as I drink the potion every 45s). There are exceptions, such as stam sorcs (who have access to brutality) and often times will simply replace the brutality with something else.

Right now, ESO is all about damage. The more AoE DoTs you can fit into your rotation, the better. Taking rally and evil hunter off your bar and getting your buffs through potions is something people do all the time. And the reason so many people turn to bow as their secondary weapon for stam builds is because it has one of the strongest AoE DoTs in the game (arguably the strongest with a vMA bow). 2H AoE damage comes nowhere close, simply because you can just cast Arrow Barrage and move on to the rest of your skills in your rotation. The best you can do with 2H is spam Brawler... and that's not very effective.

I could argue against how useful "all five" skills in 2H are, but to save time, I'll just say that they aren't as good as you are implying. Just to clarify, this is all from a pve perspective. I don't necessarily think that what you've said is untrue as it pertains to pvp.

Yes all that you said is true for group play but again SOLO play vigor and rally is needed since you don't have a healer. For example in vMSA I don't think and stam build will walk in there with out Vigor and Rally since those are the only reliable heals, using major brutality pots can supplement rally for a while but they are pots which needs to be purchased also they won't give a good heal.

as for brawler and it's morphs I don't think you gave it a good analysis of its use. Brawler isn't used for it's dmg really it's use for the dmg shield that you get when facing multiple enemies the added dot just helps with the dps, same can be said about the other morph (don't remember the name) it grants ultimate per hit and that's very useful especially for a DK in solo play.

That's true too. But yes, the point I was making is from a damage perspective, and for practical uses in a group setting. The ult regen morph of cleave is great in theory, but nobody uses this in trials that I'm aware of (dungeons are different, and people can use it here as much as they like with little consequence, if any). The damage is lackluster, the ult regen is great but pales in comparison to other alternatives for damage, and damage shields are not nearly as effective as damage reduction in pve (VoB, Nova, Standard). I guess what I'm saying is that, for endgame competitive content such as trials, 2H AoE doesn't even get a spotlight.

Vet Maelstrom is really a unique example that demonstrates the need for both rallly and vigor, and I won't deny how useful or necessary it is here. I would even go so far as to say that vigor was implemented because of vMA (it hit live around the same time, but we could make a case from many other perspectives too. This is just what I think). At the same time, that doesn't make it worthwhile in group content. I lead several trial runs each week in my guild, and I very rarely support my dps running vigor. In fact, we don't use it in dungeons much either, as our healers are capable and willing to take care of the whole team, with only a handful of exceptions (such as Molag Kena, but even here we usually forego vigor for more damage). I would also question it if one of my dps was using cleave as a means to dps without good justification. Most of my dps have chosen to go DW of their own accord for many of the same reasons I point out here.

The bad news for anyone talking about stains based weapon balance is that 2H is going to have take a nerf.

I've said this in multiple posts:

Move momentum and morphs to FIghters Guild skill line
* Remove the major brutality buff
* Give all classes acces to major brutality/major sorcery buff in skill lines
* Add a morph that major savagery or minor savagery or minor mending

Give 2H a new skill; a medium range AoE damage skill with a tankish and DPSish morph

Give DW a stamina regen passive

Give DW attacks a passive bleed chance 5/10% that stacks with axe bleed chmace proc
*you can tie the bleed chance to the stamina regen interesting yet different from 2H play style

Remove the whirlwind stamina regen morph replace it with a Zerg buster morph

Make Rapid Strikes a front conal AOE

Remove major brutality from throwing blade

Make one of the morphs of throwing blade a stright line AOE with a boomerang effect, allow up to three boomerang blades to be active at once.

Accomplishes:

Every weapon has access to momentum heal.
Every class can get brutality from skill lines and/or potions.
With the mentioned change to Reverse Slice both weapons Zerg busting stamina options
2H still useful; added a AoE ability option

Bow and sword and shield take much more thought although I really like the new bow passive change. Not sure where Bow or S&S. Find their Zerg buster attacks.