Should zos get rid on animation cancelling?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

Yes

They tried for almost a year to "fix" animation cancelling. Finally Wrobel came out in an ESO interview and said animation cancelling is now a feature of ESO and not a bug. So its here to stay now.

bowmanz607 · March 2016

No

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

Of course they should, but they won't.
The stated a long time ago that they arent skilled enough to do that, they don't want to invest the money to
fix it and they don't care at all.
So nothing will change.

Actually they said that animation cancelling was an unintended mechanic, but they embraced it because it adds an extra level of skill. I agree with this. Obviously barring macro users.

Casterial · March 2016

No

Remade post from the past. No won. Stop already. Get good and learn to do it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

Yes

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

Of course they should, but they won't.
The stated a long time ago that they arent skilled enough to do that, they don't want to invest the money to
fix it and they don't care at all.
So nothing will change.

Actually they said that animation cancelling was an unintended mechanic, but they embraced it because it adds an extra level of skill. I agree with this. Obviously barring macro users.

lol ya thats it and not they couldnt figure out how to fix it right?

Nerouyn · March 2016

Yes

Tdroid wrote: »

I call it "poor" design because I think it is poor design. Even if it was openly intentional I'd call it poor. And I'll stand on it being something that should be removed. Largely in part because we are dependent on the visual ques to read what people do in PvP, unless we run 3rd party interface mods.

Fair enough and we both agree that we'd like it gone. We just differ on how we apply the "poor" label to design.

I'm certainly not one of them but there are a lot of players who really love animation cancelling and games which put a big focus on it. ZO may have data suggesting that eg. most PvP players are rampant psychopaths who really get off on the idea of sneaky, cheatilicious animation cancelling. In that case, this design might have boosted sales and or player retention.

Definitely not to my tastes and never will be, but I'd hesitate to label this one as poor design.

bowmanz607 · March 2016

No

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

Of course they should, but they won't.
The stated a long time ago that they arent skilled enough to do that, they don't want to invest the money to
fix it and they don't care at all.
So nothing will change.

Actually they said that animation cancelling was an unintended mechanic, but they embraced it because it adds an extra level of skill. I agree with this. Obviously barring macro users.

lol ya thats it and not they couldnt figure out how to fix it right?

I think it was a combination of not wanting to use resources on it with the fact that they had a justification in that other mmo have it along with the skill factor. Basically, laziness combined with lack of resources and haveing justification for leaving them.

Casterial · March 2016

No

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

Of course they should, but they won't.
The stated a long time ago that they arent skilled enough to do that, they don't want to invest the money to
fix it and they don't care at all.
So nothing will change.

Actually they said that animation cancelling was an unintended mechanic, but they embraced it because it adds an extra level of skill. I agree with this. Obviously barring macro users.

lol ya thats it and not they couldnt figure out how to fix it right?

They figured out a fix in the PTS of 1.6, 1.7, 1.8, and your TG. They fixed it but soon removed it because they realized it removed PVP skill. And since PVP is already trash why make it embrace zerging even more? Also Macroing from 3rd party is bannable.

Edziu · March 2016

Don't care

hmm, for me..animation canceling to skill can be removed, but to slowes animation skills should be a bit increased speed...and ligh/heavy attacks still can be animation canceling, light attacks, not much damage, but like for nb with siphoning attacks light attacks without animation canceling will be useless...and skill and LA,will be then useless

I have it somewhere, this skill animation canceling, but LA/HA canceling I dont see any problem, just some increased dps, not big difference but helping in fight with sustain

Nifty2g · March 2016

No

Topics like this attract the baddies into one spot, can we avoid topics like this, i can't handle the masses of qq and l2p issues
I can animation cancel with 300 base ping, what's your excuse? Just get used to it, not hard at all.

Saturn · March 2016

No

I personally don't think so. While it is an unintended mechanic, just like weaving, it is something that sets you apart from other people as it takes practice to do it correctly. In my opinion it makes the game feel more skill based since it has a learning curve.

Kublakan · March 2016

Yes

I hope they remove that crap. It doesnt fit in this beautiful and professional game. It looks unfinished, crappy. A bug with some nix-hound, flying seagul or the moon ticking like a clock, I dont care, but heck, its messing in the combat system, dam it. How combat can be fun if combat effect and animations are not coordinated. That is skills. Not that crap so easy to macro.

Thats the main reason I stopped going to Cyrodiil, its just plain stupid.

They arent gaining new comers with this crap and certainly losing others. I can bear it so long as the rest is well made, but it certainly doenst help me to stay.

When they realize they are losing a good amount of money because of this crappy AC, they will get rid of it. After all its also their reputation as devs on the line.

demonaffinity · March 2016

No

No. The animation canceling adds to the skill based combat aspect. If you arent fast enough, you will be left behind. The animation canceling also makes combat feel much more fast phased, which is essential to ESO if you ask me.

If they remove animation canceling, there is a high chance that I will quit ESO.

Scamandros · March 2016

No

Without the ability to animation cancel ESO will lose its fluid and dynamic combat and just become an oversimplified combat system like every other traditional mmorpg. Stand there, cast your skill, wait and watch, queue next skill. There will be no point in defensive manuevers like blocking or roll dodging because they could never activate unless you are standing there doing nothing waiting for a moment to block/dodge.

Right now everything still has cooldowns. You can chain somethings together in order of priority: skill overrides the end of basic attacks, block overrides skill animation, dodge roll above all. But that doesn't magically reset cooldowns. You still have to wait that 1.5s since your last basic attack before you can use another one, same with when you last used a skill etc. I hear alot of people say macros are around, and that its easy to do, but no one ever provides any proof other then hearsay from a friends second cousin's dog who got in a fight with a macro'er. I've been accused of using macros myself. I think in a game that allows so much involvement it is easy to fall into the trap of assuming the worst. There are players I feel hopeless dueling against because they are so fast, but the main factors is they have lightning fast reaction speed, quick to think, and have low latency compared to my 350. These days top end dps has been inflated so high you could just not light/medium attack weave and still do more then fine in pve content (barring going for #1 leaderboard positions), so theres not really any time you are 'forced' into doing it.

ParaNostram · March 2016

Yes

I would have to say animation cancelling can go. It's not hard to master, but I don't like how fast it makes the fights, and they worked so hard on the animations why not let them go through to finish? To those who argue that it would remove a skill aspect of the game, here's my rebuttal.

Imagine if when you used an ability you had to commit to the time it takes for the animation, every time. Sure, it not be as skill intensive on the lines of fast reflexes, but it would be more skill intensive on regards to strategic use of abilities. That is what ZOS originally wanted with this game when they discussed how there would be no cool downs, only resource management. They wanted you to think about when to use your abilities, when to hold back, and punish you for making the wrong choice.

CyrusArya · March 2016

No

Look at the skills that can supposedly be 'Cancelled'...the tool tips all read 'instant cast. Do I need to pull out a dictionary definition here? Instant means instant damage/instant buff from the moment you press the button. Animation 'canceling' is simply a means to activate an ability to give its intended benefit in the most efficient time frame. It removes the 'fluff' of the animation, but mechanically works as it should if my understanding of the word instant is correct. You absolutely cannot 'cancel' any ability that has a cast time. You can hide the animation in some cases, but that's something else entirely. When you ask for it to be removed, what you're really asking for is cooldowns on skills, and ultimately, a completely different game.

I'm gonna be frank. Reading the commentary the anti animation cancelling crowd puts out every few weeks, it quickly becomes clear that it's mostly people who feel disadvantaged that it exists. Im sure a good portion of these people, a majority even, scapegoat animation cancelling for all their shortcomings. I promise you, were it to be removed, your dps isn't gonna shoot up to 30k and you're not gonna become a stellar PvPer over night. Let's just say it isn't people who do well In this game crying about the higher skill ceiling play and faster paced action that cancelling and skill weaving allow.

At any rate, it's not going anywhere at this point. Not without fundamentally changing the game as we know in a way that is guaranteed to drive away much of the most dedicated player base. All of you sobs might as well L2P and learn to love this awesome mechanic that makes combat so great in eso.

If anyone can prove to me that instant means something other than instant, I will change my opinion.

Casterial · March 2016

No

Sounds like you're too lazy to learn. [snip] I practiced it for a few weeks to get good at it. It takes time just as PVE trials take time. Just as mastering VMA takes time, etc. It all requires skill.

[edited to remove flamming]

ZombieZig · March 2016

Yes

Casterial wrote: »

Sounds like you're too lazy to learn. I practiced it for a few weeks to get good at it. It takes time just as PVE trials take time. Just as mastering VMA takes time, etc. It all requires skill.

Again. Neat story. Played beta been a sub since. vMA is in the bag and i sure dont spell animation cancel to complete it.

[edited to remove quote]

ZombieZig · March 2016

Yes

If these threads keep appearing. Hmm maybe its an issue.

ParaNostram · March 2016

Yes

Casterial wrote: »

Sounds like you're too lazy to learn. I practiced it for a few weeks to get good at it. It takes time just as PVE trials take time. Just as mastering VMA takes time, etc. It all requires skill.

Well, personally it isn't about being too lazy to learn for me. I can string medium attack, surprise attack, bash weaves all day long. I just personally prefer games where the skill comes in strategic implementation of abilities, knowing when to hold em when to fold em ya know? The current play style with animation canceling is skilled timing and fast paced, but it isn't my preferred play style.

It isn't hard to master, it's just a little irritating to do. Fights are too fast, I like to savor them.

[edited to remove quote]

Scamandros · March 2016

No

Also the update from ages past that improved animation cancelling animations was great. You no longer appear to be spazzing out and everything combines and flows smoothly. Shoot fire from staff in one hand, use motion of pulling it back to balance with motion of moving other hand forward to shoot a spell. It does look pretty amazing

Samadhi · March 2016

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

It has been part of the combat system at least since beta in 2013. There is a bit of a learning curve and it might be nice for new players to get some sort of tutorial in the Wailing Prison, but to remove animation canceling at this point would result in a completely different sort of game.

This is what makes ESO's combat system fast paced compared to some other games. Even players who have never heard of animation canceling would notice a massive slowdown in the pace of combat, because every time they use an ability they would no longer be able to immediately roll dodge, block or swap weapons. Whenever you block quickly, dodge roll or swap weapons, you are canceling the previous animation. Combat would feel incredibly slow for everyone if this was removed.

Ambivalent towards the issue; see no real detriment to animation cancelling, but also recognize that it does not add anything to game.

If animation cancelling is going to stay though, ZOS should legitimize it -- currently, animation cancelling functions in the realm of an exploit that goes unpunished. It is a mechanic that players typically only uncover from being informed by another player how to bypass the intended animation mechanics of the game.

If ZOS is unable or unwilling to fix it, the key to legitimizing it is to teach new players as a function of the game, rather than having new players learn that it is alright to bend the rules of the game.
Even if ZOS does not consider animation cancelling to be an exploit, treating such a large modification to damage output as an exploit reinforces a view that the rules in ESO receive the opposite of enforcement.

ParaNostram · March 2016

Yes

Scamandros wrote: »

Also the update from ages past that improved animation cancelling animations was great. You no longer appear to be spazzing out and everything combines and flows smoothly. Shoot fire from staff in one hand, use motion of pulling it back to balance with motion of moving other hand forward to shoot a spell. It does look pretty amazing

Not going to lie, they have made it look better and I very much appreciate it. If they're going to have it, they should at least let it be smooth. I hated seeing my characters twitch around, it was irritating. What can I say? I like pretty games with smooth animation!

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

Yes

Casterial wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

Of course they should, but they won't.
The stated a long time ago that they arent skilled enough to do that, they don't want to invest the money to
fix it and they don't care at all.
So nothing will change.

Actually they said that animation cancelling was an unintended mechanic, but they embraced it because it adds an extra level of skill. I agree with this. Obviously barring macro users.

lol ya thats it and not they couldnt figure out how to fix it right?

They figured out a fix in the PTS of 1.6, 1.7, 1.8, and your TG. They fixed it but soon removed it because they realized it removed PVP skill. And since PVP is already trash why make it embrace zerging even more? Also Macroing from 3rd party is bannable.

There is nothing wrong with macroing. I use my KB software to run macros all the time. ZOS has stated many times there is nothing wrong with it as long as #1 you arent macroing unattended and #2 it only does keystrokes and nothing else with the client. My "third party" software came with my KB. It doesnt mess with the client at all. It only automates keystrokes.

Asmael · March 2016

I have a feeling I just made a jump back in time. Like 3 or 4 weeks... The very same subject, the approximate same %.

Something's wrong with the matrix...

bowmanz607 · March 2016

No

ParaNostram wrote: »

I would have to say animation cancelling can go. It's not hard to master, but I don't like how fast it makes the fights, and they worked so hard on the animations why not let them go through to finish? To those who argue that it would remove a skill aspect of the game, here's my rebuttal.

Imagine if when you used an ability you had to commit to the time it takes for the animation, every time. Sure, it not be as skill intensive on the lines of fast reflexes, but it would be more skill intensive on regards to strategic use of abilities. That is what ZOS originally wanted with this game when they discussed how there would be no cool downs, only resource management. They wanted you to think about when to use your abilities, when to hold back, and punish you for making the wrong choice.

Your definition of a good player is obviously different. Many of us believe that animation cancelling adds a level of skill to a game in which every update makes it easier for the casual player. I also don't think it makes it more skill intensive in regards to strategic use of ability. Removing it will simply making spamming one ability more prominent which detracts from skill.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

Yes

ParaNostram wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Sounds like you're too lazy to learn. I practiced it for a few weeks to get good at it. It takes time just as PVE trials take time. Just as mastering VMA takes time, etc. It all requires skill.

Well, personally it isn't about being too lazy to learn for me. I can string medium attack, surprise attack, bash weaves all day long. I just personally prefer games where the skill comes in strategic implementation of abilities, knowing when to hold em when to fold em ya know? The current play style with animation canceling is skilled timing and fast paced, but it isn't my preferred play style.

It isn't hard to master, it's just a little irritating to do. Fights are too fast, I like to savor them.

I agree. You shoudlnt have to figure out how to cheat basically to be able to play the game. I never could get the hang of that animation cancelling nonsense myself.

[minor edit for quote]

haunted1994F · March 2016

Yes

know what would ZOS says to this. . .GIVE ME MONEY!

Casterial · March 2016

No

ZombieZig wrote: »

If these threads keep appearing. Hmm maybe its an issue.

Since beta cute, October 2014? That seems to be your forum account quite new. Playing since beta doesn't mean anything. Animation canceling barely helps you on hard hitting skills and DOT abilities. Why? Its literally trashed and cancels itself out. ZOS made sure when you cancel bigger abilities early, too early it stops the cast of it completely and you need to re do it. Some abilities (mainly nightblade, and stamplars) can animation cancel like no tomorrow if they play smart, but most magicka classes cannot play this off. Same as hard hitting stamina abilities. Each skill has a different way of animation cancelling. Each one takes A LOT longer than the other to master, Wrecking Blow is a good example the cast is 1second I think? And to animation cancel you must cast until .9seconds? Thats pretty nice. ZOS made sure we couldn't break the game by cancelling the animation 100%

Out of all MMOs I have ever played the animation is 100% sped up to make combat a faster feel, but ESO is not that way. Without Animation canceling the PVP would be 20x slower and zergs would be praised.

CyrusArya · March 2016

No

Also, let me remind you of another instance where QQing forum goers cried over and over about a game mechanic they felt personally disadvantaged by and demanded changes for: no cp campaign. What happened there when we handed the ever complaining vocal minority the reigns? Remove cancelling and make the game a slow, clunky affair where every animation has to play out and only one action can be performed at a time and the rest of this game will become like the ghost town that is Azuras star.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch · March 2016

No

ParaNostram wrote: »

That is what ZOS originally wanted with this game when they discussed how there would be no cool downs, only resource management. They wanted you to think about when to use your abilities, when to hold back, and punish you for making the wrong choice.