phairdon wrote: »

Guess what. Does not matter.

Actually, it kinda does.

phairdon wrote: »

Vampire Lord is now part of lore, lore which allowed players to become one. So on that basis there is no reason why it could not be available to players in this game if Zenimax decided to include for whatever reason, or any future single player titles.

There's actually one critical difference between ESO and any future single player titles.

You are correct, by the way. If Bethesda decides they want to make the Vampire Lord a staple of vampirism in their future games, nothing is stopping them.

phairdon wrote: »

As I said in the second post, a polymoprh would be sufficient for my liking. No change to skill lines or ultimate.

As a cosmetic item, you might actually get your wish. A Vampire Lord and Werewolf Lord polymorph were found in the files back last August or September. So that may be coming to the game, some day.

phairdon wrote: »

Do I expect to see anything related to the a vampire lord in this game? No.

The problem with adding a vampire lord into the game as an actual ability, and trying to square it away with the setting is two fold.

First: Vampire Lords are very rare. Adding post Skyrim literature on them is plausible, because the Dragonborn was (potentially) derping around the Province as one, or lead the charge against Harkon. It's entirely possible that TES6 will have books on vampirism written by Dawnguard survivors talking about the existence of this very rare strain of vampires.

This is also the reason we can't collect Daedric artifacts. There's one of each, so, it really doesn't make sense to have a full team armed with Auriel's Bows and dual wielding Dawnbreakers. It would also strain lore a bit to have a full team of Vampire Lords.

I'll add, I do think the Vestige is uniquely suited to becoming one, since they don't have to survive the infection and transformation process (because they can self revive), but that doesn't mean it should be accessible to the player, because...

Second: You cannot give a player (in a multiplayer game, like ESO, with a PvP mechanic) a decisive power advantage. We've already seen why. You can look back to last summer when Werewolves got their +15% stamina regen without their ultimate slotted. Everyone was a werewolf or a vampire. There were posts complaining about this, how "unrealistic" it was for everyone in Tamriel to be a werewolf, and so on.

Now, most people who look to the Vampire Lord want it because it's a serious power trip. And, there's nothing wrong with that. We all want our characters to be more powerful, at one time or another. And, most of us want our characters to be cool in some respect. The Vampire Lord in Skyrim nails that, for those of us who want to play a vampire.

The problem is, you can't give that to one player in a multiplayer game. So, you can either make it much weaker, which won't satisfy most of the people asking for it. Or you need to not hand it out at all.

Given the lore? I'm in favor of not handing it out at all. If you want the Vampire Lord transform, it's there in Skyrim, where intra-player balance isn't an issue. If you want to be a vampire lord with your buddies, there is the Hall of Champions mod (which lets you add other player characters as NPC followers) or the Skyrim Online mod (even though it's still a work in progress). But, actually sticking one into ESO is probably a bad idea.

Also... stupid question, but how do the slaughterfish kill you when you're floating over the water? That's kinda how the game keeps you from just wandering over to the IC, or off the map.

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

The Dragonborn is a mortal Demi-god who got bitten by a former king turned Vampire Lord who became that way by sacrificing 1000 souls to Molag Bal and even when the Dragonborn was bitten Harkon didn't actually intend for you to survive the Transformation, he even says that in the Final Battle that he never intended on letting you live.

Not to mention Harkon outright claims that a Vampire Lord to others Vampires is basically the same as what a King is to their subjects, you would be lucky if more then 10 vampire lords like Harkon were ever actually created and even that's being generous, now tell me how hundreds of people with the vampiric status that is equvilanet to that of a King running around the same spot lorefriendly? the answer is its not...also its a different vampire strain and besides lorewise 1 Single VL would have the power to take out an entire pack of werewolves by themselves, Basically the magic of a Lich and Strength of a Lycanthrope rolled into 1, how could you balance such power in game terms? You might as well ask if we can get the Blessing from the Amulet of Kings back while your at it as you would have already stepped over the line of what is Balanced and what isn't and besides the Vestige isn't that strong and is one of many people that's the whole point of the game, so we have to fight in groups alongside other Vestiges.

Guess what. Does not matter. Vampire Lord is now part of lore, lore which allowed players to become one. So on that basis there is no reason why it could not be available to players in this game if Zenimax decided to include for whatever reason, or any future single player titles.
As I said in the second post, a polymoprh would be sufficient for my liking. No change to skill lines or ultimate. Do I expect to see anything related to the a vampire lord in this game? No.

Look I get not everyone knows the lore, or even cares about the lore. Some people just want cool things in a game they love, and that's fine. But the second you break lore, cracks start to appear until eventually the entire thing unravels and what you have left is an empty shell of what you once loved. Lore acts as history and gives us defining moments to base all judgement off of. For instance, say we were able to become the Dragonborn. It gets its own skill line of a couple dragon shouts. It'd be jarring to say the least if suddenly there were just hundredsof Dragonborn running around we've never once heard of. All the shouts going on, you'd have to wonder how they learned them with no dragons around to absorb the souls necessary to learn them. And suddenly your own "true" Dragonborn looks pale and weaker by comparison. Your Dragonborn had to fight in a civil war, and save Nirn from the Tamriel equivalent of Ragnarok. They ended a vampire crisis and dueled the last other remaining Dragonborn who claimed to be the first who only survived by living within Apocrypha, a realm said to drive most mad with amount of knowledge and power stored there. They were treated like a one of a kind hero come to save them from the darkest time in their existence, and yet in the 2nd era everyone and their dog was a Dragonborn. ON TOP of the Vestige being essentially immortal anyways you'd really start to wonder why they didn't become Talos, or how Talos even won all his fights with so many other Dragonborn he would have encountered.

I can't even believe anyone who claims to love vampire lords so much would even want them to be diluted this way. Part of what made them cool is that they were unique and powerful, letting hundreds suddenly become one just makes them look weaker, and like it's not really a big deal. Which as starkerealm points out they'd have to be severely nerfed in order to fit and maintain the balance within this game.

A polymorph or a disguise, sure I can meet you half-way on that. You get to look like a Vampire lord, I get the lore maintained, everybody wins. I'd rather we not see it at all, as I said before, the more this game does to separate itself from Skyrim the better. Skyrim was great and I love it, but it is it's own game. If i want to fight Dragons, ride Dragons, yell goats off mountains, dual wield a fireball, become a vampire lord, kill a vampire lord, attend a college course on wards..... I can pop Skyrim in and go nuts. But Eso allows me to travel parts of Tamriel We havnt yet seen and some that got updated, interact with other people, fight other players, all within the setting and lore I love and am familiar with. Keep them separate experiences, like how Oblivion is a vastly different experience from Skyrim. We dont need Elder Scrolls to become the next Star Wars where it literally has to be taken away from its original creator, and wipe out all previously established lore, just so we can have fun with it again.

Well said, the way I see it though If people want a powerful transformation then ask Zenimax to allow us to become Lichs or something of the like, they are up their with VLs in terms of power but the only difference is unlike a vampire lord, the lich is already quite common in this setting seeing as anyone with the guts and knowledge can turn themselves into one (Just ask any Random Daedric Prince and they will most likely know the ritual) thus having heaps of them running around wouldn't be as lore breaking.

In a way what you said is basically like saying "If everyone is special, then no one is" and that's what people seem to want to happen to the Unique Vampire Lord (the very thing that made it so cool is because it is rare and unique and you were one of very few who possessed such a power). Like how the Emperor title used to mean something in ESO around Launch, it was rare and very few people had it, now look at it, its been diminished to something half the ESO population has achieved and is utterly pointless in obtaining now.

Finishing the Maelstrom Arena on Veteran was an achievement but an achievement loses its value when to many people have also achieved it, Vampire Lord status would be no different, being a VL would lose its alure if their were 2 many of them running around, Maybe if the vampire lord was instead called "Vampire King" people might understand how rare they are supposed to be.

Well, they could to vampirism that gives abilties such as this. They would give a more powerfull but balanced vampire abilties skill line. Basically the first one is Vampiric levitation, the second ability is to lift the target up and throw it back. The third ability allows you to summon a bat toggle Vampiric levitation is a toggle that basically makes your character like a floating mage, and certain abilties could possibly be made to work only in this state this would only be available to scions and they don't even need to look all batty either they could look like the character just basically the character is levitating off the ground.

If people want a vampire lord look with workable wings they could get a polymorpth from crown store that only works with vampirism it will not show on non vampires. Basically giving some more powerful vampire abilties. That is only available to a scion and I would like to see Levitation like the vampire lord in skyrim we don't need vampire lords themselves just some type of blood magic that they had access to.

I can see them adding this for us, and I would like the vampiric levitation idea I mentioned to be added, plus the vampire telekinesis ability and the bat cloak would be a buff to healing recovery, as they fly around you, this and the vampire telekinesis ability should only work if Vampiric levitation is toggled on. This would be a cool ability and I would like to see them give scions of lamae some cool vampire magic.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well, they could to vampirism that gives abilties such as this. They would give a more powerfull but balanced vampire abilties skill line. Basically the first one is Vampiric levitation, the second ability is to lift the target up and throw it back. The third ability allows you to summon a bat toggle Vampiric levitation is a toggle that basically makes your character like a floating mage, and certain abilties could possibly be made to work only in this state this would only be available to scions and they don't even need to look all batty either they could look like the character just basically the character is levitating off the ground.

If people want a vampire lord look with workable wings they could get a polymorpth from crown store that only works with vampirism it will not show on non vampires. Basically giving some more powerful vampire abilties. That is only available to a scion and I would like to see Levitation like the vampire lord in skyrim we don't need vampire lords themselves just some type of blood magic that they had access to.

I can see them adding this for us, and I would like the vampiric levitation idea I mentioned to be added, plus the vampire telekinesis ability and the bat cloak would be a buff to healing recovery, as they fly around you, this and the vampire telekinesis ability should only work if Vampiric levitation is toggled on. This would be a cool ability and I would like to see them give scions of lamae some cool vampire magic.

Levitation wouldn't work in this game, how else would the slaughterfish prevent you from getting to areas your not supposed to get to if you could?

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well, they could to vampirism that gives abilties such as this. They would give a more powerfull but balanced vampire abilties skill line. Basically the first one is Vampiric levitation, the second ability is to lift the target up and throw it back. The third ability allows you to summon a bat toggle Vampiric levitation is a toggle that basically makes your character like a floating mage, and certain abilties could possibly be made to work only in this state this would only be available to scions and they don't even need to look all batty either they could look like the character just basically the character is levitating off the ground.

If people want a vampire lord look with workable wings they could get a polymorpth from crown store that only works with vampirism it will not show on non vampires. Basically giving some more powerful vampire abilties. That is only available to a scion and I would like to see Levitation like the vampire lord in skyrim we don't need vampire lords themselves just some type of blood magic that they had access to.

I can see them adding this for us, and I would like the vampiric levitation idea I mentioned to be added, plus the vampire telekinesis ability and the bat cloak would be a buff to healing recovery, as they fly around you, this and the vampire telekinesis ability should only work if Vampiric levitation is toggled on. This would be a cool ability and I would like to see them give scions of lamae some cool vampire magic.

If the floating part is functional it'll either be OP (depending on the height) a total hindrance (hard to "dodge roll" when you're floating, or useless(if it is just aesthetic and adds nothing mechanically) The rubber band move of lifting and throwing kinda falls into this same pitfall. There was a glitch that actually did lift and throw you and it caused a lot of problems. Is this move a CC move? could it then be "broken free" from? (doesnt that make it seem like the vampire lord is weaker?) Summon a bat I could see, it'd be the exact same as sorc pets but I could see it being added. (that or a Gargoyle)

Any cosmetic item from the crown store HAS to be open for everyone. It can't have a limitation to it like "must be a vampire" or else it's going to cause a lot of problems. It'd be like if the Mages guild costume set was just for sorcs.

The whole idea of new skills brings us back to balancing issues. If the vampires get something, the werewolves will have to get something. And if both of them have like 12 extra skills available to them the rest of us will feel like he HAVE to pick a transformation to remain competitive.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

The Dragonborn is a mortal Demi-god who got bitten by a former king turned Vampire Lord who became that way by sacrificing 1000 souls to Molag Bal and even when the Dragonborn was bitten Harkon didn't actually intend for you to survive the Transformation, he even says that in the Final Battle that he never intended on letting you live.

Not to mention Harkon outright claims that a Vampire Lord to others Vampires is basically the same as what a King is to their subjects, you would be lucky if more then 10 vampire lords like Harkon were ever actually created and even that's being generous, now tell me how hundreds of people with the vampiric status that is equvilanet to that of a King running around the same spot lorefriendly? the answer is its not...also its a different vampire strain and besides lorewise 1 Single VL would have the power to take out an entire pack of werewolves by themselves, Basically the magic of a Lich and Strength of a Lycanthrope rolled into 1, how could you balance such power in game terms? You might as well ask if we can get the Blessing from the Amulet of Kings back while your at it as you would have already stepped over the line of what is Balanced and what isn't and besides the Vestige isn't that strong and is one of many people that's the whole point of the game, so we have to fight in groups alongside other Vestiges.

Guess what. Does not matter. Vampire Lord is now part of lore, lore which allowed players to become one. So on that basis there is no reason why it could not be available to players in this game if Zenimax decided to include for whatever reason, or any future single player titles.
As I said in the second post, a polymoprh would be sufficient for my liking. No change to skill lines or ultimate. Do I expect to see anything related to the a vampire lord in this game? No.

Look I get not everyone knows the lore, or even cares about the lore. Some people just want cool things in a game they love, and that's fine. But the second you break lore, cracks start to appear until eventually the entire thing unravels and what you have left is an empty shell of what you once loved. Lore acts as history and gives us defining moments to base all judgement off of. For instance, say we were able to become the Dragonborn. It gets its own skill line of a couple dragon shouts. It'd be jarring to say the least if suddenly there were just hundredsof Dragonborn running around we've never once heard of. All the shouts going on, you'd have to wonder how they learned them with no dragons around to absorb the souls necessary to learn them. And suddenly your own "true" Dragonborn looks pale and weaker by comparison. Your Dragonborn had to fight in a civil war, and save Nirn from the Tamriel equivalent of Ragnarok. They ended a vampire crisis and dueled the last other remaining Dragonborn who claimed to be the first who only survived by living within Apocrypha, a realm said to drive most mad with amount of knowledge and power stored there. They were treated like a one of a kind hero come to save them from the darkest time in their existence, and yet in the 2nd era everyone and their dog was a Dragonborn. ON TOP of the Vestige being essentially immortal anyways you'd really start to wonder why they didn't become Talos, or how Talos even won all his fights with so many other Dragonborn he would have encountered.

I can't even believe anyone who claims to love vampire lords so much would even want them to be diluted this way. Part of what made them cool is that they were unique and powerful, letting hundreds suddenly become one just makes them look weaker, and like it's not really a big deal. Which as starkerealm points out they'd have to be severely nerfed in order to fit and maintain the balance within this game.

A polymorph or a disguise, sure I can meet you half-way on that. You get to look like a Vampire lord, I get the lore maintained, everybody wins. I'd rather we not see it at all, as I said before, the more this game does to separate itself from Skyrim the better. Skyrim was great and I love it, but it is it's own game. If i want to fight Dragons, ride Dragons, yell goats off mountains, dual wield a fireball, become a vampire lord, kill a vampire lord, attend a college course on wards..... I can pop Skyrim in and go nuts. But Eso allows me to travel parts of Tamriel We havnt yet seen and some that got updated, interact with other people, fight other players, all within the setting and lore I love and am familiar with. Keep them separate experiences, like how Oblivion is a vastly different experience from Skyrim. We dont need Elder Scrolls to become the next Star Wars where it literally has to be taken away from its original creator, and wipe out all previously established lore, just so we can have fun with it again.

Well said, the way I see it though If people want a powerful transformation then ask Zenimax to allow us to become Lichs or something of the like, they are up their with VLs in terms of power but the only difference is unlike a vampire lord, the lich is already quite common in this setting seeing as anyone with the guts and knowledge can turn themselves into one (Just ask any Random Daedric Prince and they will most likely know the ritual) thus having heaps of them running around wouldn't be as lore breaking.

Heck, Mannimarco was the "first" lich, I'm more than certain other worm cult members (possibly higher up) know how to become liches. It'd be an interesting alternative to those of us who would like a Transformation but dislike werewolves and vampires. Tho a lich would be magicka based, for balance we might have to add in another stamina based transformation as well... perhaps a Werecrocodile or Werebear

Mannimarco wasn't the first Lich, He isn't even a Lich yet in ESO (If he is then I'm disappointed in him) and those Ayleid Lichs predate him by thousands of years, he may have been the first to rediscover the secrets of Lichdom or may be the first one to stop their body from falling apart but as in being the first to exist...not even close.

Actually they wouldn't need a 4th transformation so it would be balanced with just a Lich form because they would most likely be the exact opposite of a werewolf while a vampire is 50/50, the lich would have a 15% boost to magicka regen when they have their lich transformation/Or abilties slotted.

I know, it's why I placed first in quotations, it was more of a joke.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

The Dragonborn is a mortal Demi-god who got bitten by a former king turned Vampire Lord who became that way by sacrificing 1000 souls to Molag Bal and even when the Dragonborn was bitten Harkon didn't actually intend for you to survive the Transformation, he even says that in the Final Battle that he never intended on letting you live.

Not to mention Harkon outright claims that a Vampire Lord to others Vampires is basically the same as what a King is to their subjects, you would be lucky if more then 10 vampire lords like Harkon were ever actually created and even that's being generous, now tell me how hundreds of people with the vampiric status that is equvilanet to that of a King running around the same spot lorefriendly? the answer is its not...also its a different vampire strain and besides lorewise 1 Single VL would have the power to take out an entire pack of werewolves by themselves, Basically the magic of a Lich and Strength of a Lycanthrope rolled into 1, how could you balance such power in game terms? You might as well ask if we can get the Blessing from the Amulet of Kings back while your at it as you would have already stepped over the line of what is Balanced and what isn't and besides the Vestige isn't that strong and is one of many people that's the whole point of the game, so we have to fight in groups alongside other Vestiges.

Guess what. Does not matter. Vampire Lord is now part of lore, lore which allowed players to become one. So on that basis there is no reason why it could not be available to players in this game if Zenimax decided to include for whatever reason, or any future single player titles.
As I said in the second post, a polymoprh would be sufficient for my liking. No change to skill lines or ultimate. Do I expect to see anything related to the a vampire lord in this game? No.

Look I get not everyone knows the lore, or even cares about the lore. Some people just want cool things in a game they love, and that's fine. But the second you break lore, cracks start to appear until eventually the entire thing unravels and what you have left is an empty shell of what you once loved. Lore acts as history and gives us defining moments to base all judgement off of. For instance, say we were able to become the Dragonborn. It gets its own skill line of a couple dragon shouts. It'd be jarring to say the least if suddenly there were just hundredsof Dragonborn running around we've never once heard of. All the shouts going on, you'd have to wonder how they learned them with no dragons around to absorb the souls necessary to learn them. And suddenly your own "true" Dragonborn looks pale and weaker by comparison. Your Dragonborn had to fight in a civil war, and save Nirn from the Tamriel equivalent of Ragnarok. They ended a vampire crisis and dueled the last other remaining Dragonborn who claimed to be the first who only survived by living within Apocrypha, a realm said to drive most mad with amount of knowledge and power stored there. They were treated like a one of a kind hero come to save them from the darkest time in their existence, and yet in the 2nd era everyone and their dog was a Dragonborn. ON TOP of the Vestige being essentially immortal anyways you'd really start to wonder why they didn't become Talos, or how Talos even won all his fights with so many other Dragonborn he would have encountered.

I can't even believe anyone who claims to love vampire lords so much would even want them to be diluted this way. Part of what made them cool is that they were unique and powerful, letting hundreds suddenly become one just makes them look weaker, and like it's not really a big deal. Which as starkerealm points out they'd have to be severely nerfed in order to fit and maintain the balance within this game.

A polymorph or a disguise, sure I can meet you half-way on that. You get to look like a Vampire lord, I get the lore maintained, everybody wins. I'd rather we not see it at all, as I said before, the more this game does to separate itself from Skyrim the better. Skyrim was great and I love it, but it is it's own game. If i want to fight Dragons, ride Dragons, yell goats off mountains, dual wield a fireball, become a vampire lord, kill a vampire lord, attend a college course on wards..... I can pop Skyrim in and go nuts. But Eso allows me to travel parts of Tamriel We havnt yet seen and some that got updated, interact with other people, fight other players, all within the setting and lore I love and am familiar with. Keep them separate experiences, like how Oblivion is a vastly different experience from Skyrim. We dont need Elder Scrolls to become the next Star Wars where it literally has to be taken away from its original creator, and wipe out all previously established lore, just so we can have fun with it again.

Well said, the way I see it though If people want a powerful transformation then ask Zenimax to allow us to become Lichs or something of the like, they are up their with VLs in terms of power but the only difference is unlike a vampire lord, the lich is already quite common in this setting seeing as anyone with the guts and knowledge can turn themselves into one (Just ask any Random Daedric Prince and they will most likely know the ritual) thus having heaps of them running around wouldn't be as lore breaking.

Heck, Mannimarco was the "first" lich, I'm more than certain other worm cult members (possibly higher up) know how to become liches. It'd be an interesting alternative to those of us who would like a Transformation but dislike werewolves and vampires. Tho a lich would be magicka based, for balance we might have to add in another stamina based transformation as well... perhaps a Werecrocodile or Werebear

Yeah Mannimarco is just believed to be the first one because his followers say he is but the first ones would possibly be during the time of the dragons or even before the dragons, Basically Mannimarco has a vestige of his own you discover this when you fight him during the main questline, so he might not have died when the player kills him in elder scrolls four.
So bascially, Mannimacro might be a soul shriven with a soul, able to cheat death by being able to reform. This could explain why he has returned even when they thought he was dead.
I would like to see werecroc and wereshark added and us players able to get both of those conditions. It would epic to have a wereshark vs werecroc fight in cyrodill.

Technically due to a Dragonbreak from Arena, there's more than one Mannimarco, so it's possible to have killed him a could times without him disappearing from the world.

catalyst10e wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

The Dragonborn is a mortal Demi-god who got bitten by a former king turned Vampire Lord who became that way by sacrificing 1000 souls to Molag Bal and even when the Dragonborn was bitten Harkon didn't actually intend for you to survive the Transformation, he even says that in the Final Battle that he never intended on letting you live.

Not to mention Harkon outright claims that a Vampire Lord to others Vampires is basically the same as what a King is to their subjects, you would be lucky if more then 10 vampire lords like Harkon were ever actually created and even that's being generous, now tell me how hundreds of people with the vampiric status that is equvilanet to that of a King running around the same spot lorefriendly? the answer is its not...also its a different vampire strain and besides lorewise 1 Single VL would have the power to take out an entire pack of werewolves by themselves, Basically the magic of a Lich and Strength of a Lycanthrope rolled into 1, how could you balance such power in game terms? You might as well ask if we can get the Blessing from the Amulet of Kings back while your at it as you would have already stepped over the line of what is Balanced and what isn't and besides the Vestige isn't that strong and is one of many people that's the whole point of the game, so we have to fight in groups alongside other Vestiges.

Guess what. Does not matter. Vampire Lord is now part of lore, lore which allowed players to become one. So on that basis there is no reason why it could not be available to players in this game if Zenimax decided to include for whatever reason, or any future single player titles.
As I said in the second post, a polymoprh would be sufficient for my liking. No change to skill lines or ultimate. Do I expect to see anything related to the a vampire lord in this game? No.

Look I get not everyone knows the lore, or even cares about the lore. Some people just want cool things in a game they love, and that's fine. But the second you break lore, cracks start to appear until eventually the entire thing unravels and what you have left is an empty shell of what you once loved. Lore acts as history and gives us defining moments to base all judgement off of. For instance, say we were able to become the Dragonborn. It gets its own skill line of a couple dragon shouts. It'd be jarring to say the least if suddenly there were just hundredsof Dragonborn running around we've never once heard of. All the shouts going on, you'd have to wonder how they learned them with no dragons around to absorb the souls necessary to learn them. And suddenly your own "true" Dragonborn looks pale and weaker by comparison. Your Dragonborn had to fight in a civil war, and save Nirn from the Tamriel equivalent of Ragnarok. They ended a vampire crisis and dueled the last other remaining Dragonborn who claimed to be the first who only survived by living within Apocrypha, a realm said to drive most mad with amount of knowledge and power stored there. They were treated like a one of a kind hero come to save them from the darkest time in their existence, and yet in the 2nd era everyone and their dog was a Dragonborn. ON TOP of the Vestige being essentially immortal anyways you'd really start to wonder why they didn't become Talos, or how Talos even won all his fights with so many other Dragonborn he would have encountered.

I can't even believe anyone who claims to love vampire lords so much would even want them to be diluted this way. Part of what made them cool is that they were unique and powerful, letting hundreds suddenly become one just makes them look weaker, and like it's not really a big deal. Which as starkerealm points out they'd have to be severely nerfed in order to fit and maintain the balance within this game.

A polymorph or a disguise, sure I can meet you half-way on that. You get to look like a Vampire lord, I get the lore maintained, everybody wins. I'd rather we not see it at all, as I said before, the more this game does to separate itself from Skyrim the better. Skyrim was great and I love it, but it is it's own game. If i want to fight Dragons, ride Dragons, yell goats off mountains, dual wield a fireball, become a vampire lord, kill a vampire lord, attend a college course on wards..... I can pop Skyrim in and go nuts. But Eso allows me to travel parts of Tamriel We havnt yet seen and some that got updated, interact with other people, fight other players, all within the setting and lore I love and am familiar with. Keep them separate experiences, like how Oblivion is a vastly different experience from Skyrim. We dont need Elder Scrolls to become the next Star Wars where it literally has to be taken away from its original creator, and wipe out all previously established lore, just so we can have fun with it again.

Well said, the way I see it though If people want a powerful transformation then ask Zenimax to allow us to become Lichs or something of the like, they are up their with VLs in terms of power but the only difference is unlike a vampire lord, the lich is already quite common in this setting seeing as anyone with the guts and knowledge can turn themselves into one (Just ask any Random Daedric Prince and they will most likely know the ritual) thus having heaps of them running around wouldn't be as lore breaking.

Heck, Mannimarco was the "first" lich, I'm more than certain other worm cult members (possibly higher up) know how to become liches. It'd be an interesting alternative to those of us who would like a Transformation but dislike werewolves and vampires. Tho a lich would be magicka based, for balance we might have to add in another stamina based transformation as well... perhaps a Werecrocodile or Werebear

Mannimarco wasn't the first Lich, He isn't even a Lich yet in ESO (If he is then I'm disappointed in him) and those Ayleid Lichs predate him by thousands of years, he may have been the first to rediscover the secrets of Lichdom or may be the first one to stop their body from falling apart but as in being the first to exist...not even close.

Actually they wouldn't need a 4th transformation so it would be balanced with just a Lich form because they would most likely be the exact opposite of a werewolf while a vampire is 50/50, the lich would have a 15% boost to magicka regen when they have their lich transformation/Or abilties slotted.

I know, it's why I placed first in quotations, it was more of a joke.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

The Dragonborn is a mortal Demi-god who got bitten by a former king turned Vampire Lord who became that way by sacrificing 1000 souls to Molag Bal and even when the Dragonborn was bitten Harkon didn't actually intend for you to survive the Transformation, he even says that in the Final Battle that he never intended on letting you live.

Not to mention Harkon outright claims that a Vampire Lord to others Vampires is basically the same as what a King is to their subjects, you would be lucky if more then 10 vampire lords like Harkon were ever actually created and even that's being generous, now tell me how hundreds of people with the vampiric status that is equvilanet to that of a King running around the same spot lorefriendly? the answer is its not...also its a different vampire strain and besides lorewise 1 Single VL would have the power to take out an entire pack of werewolves by themselves, Basically the magic of a Lich and Strength of a Lycanthrope rolled into 1, how could you balance such power in game terms? You might as well ask if we can get the Blessing from the Amulet of Kings back while your at it as you would have already stepped over the line of what is Balanced and what isn't and besides the Vestige isn't that strong and is one of many people that's the whole point of the game, so we have to fight in groups alongside other Vestiges.

Guess what. Does not matter. Vampire Lord is now part of lore, lore which allowed players to become one. So on that basis there is no reason why it could not be available to players in this game if Zenimax decided to include for whatever reason, or any future single player titles.
As I said in the second post, a polymoprh would be sufficient for my liking. No change to skill lines or ultimate. Do I expect to see anything related to the a vampire lord in this game? No.

Look I get not everyone knows the lore, or even cares about the lore. Some people just want cool things in a game they love, and that's fine. But the second you break lore, cracks start to appear until eventually the entire thing unravels and what you have left is an empty shell of what you once loved. Lore acts as history and gives us defining moments to base all judgement off of. For instance, say we were able to become the Dragonborn. It gets its own skill line of a couple dragon shouts. It'd be jarring to say the least if suddenly there were just hundredsof Dragonborn running around we've never once heard of. All the shouts going on, you'd have to wonder how they learned them with no dragons around to absorb the souls necessary to learn them. And suddenly your own "true" Dragonborn looks pale and weaker by comparison. Your Dragonborn had to fight in a civil war, and save Nirn from the Tamriel equivalent of Ragnarok. They ended a vampire crisis and dueled the last other remaining Dragonborn who claimed to be the first who only survived by living within Apocrypha, a realm said to drive most mad with amount of knowledge and power stored there. They were treated like a one of a kind hero come to save them from the darkest time in their existence, and yet in the 2nd era everyone and their dog was a Dragonborn. ON TOP of the Vestige being essentially immortal anyways you'd really start to wonder why they didn't become Talos, or how Talos even won all his fights with so many other Dragonborn he would have encountered.

I can't even believe anyone who claims to love vampire lords so much would even want them to be diluted this way. Part of what made them cool is that they were unique and powerful, letting hundreds suddenly become one just makes them look weaker, and like it's not really a big deal. Which as starkerealm points out they'd have to be severely nerfed in order to fit and maintain the balance within this game.

A polymorph or a disguise, sure I can meet you half-way on that. You get to look like a Vampire lord, I get the lore maintained, everybody wins. I'd rather we not see it at all, as I said before, the more this game does to separate itself from Skyrim the better. Skyrim was great and I love it, but it is it's own game. If i want to fight Dragons, ride Dragons, yell goats off mountains, dual wield a fireball, become a vampire lord, kill a vampire lord, attend a college course on wards..... I can pop Skyrim in and go nuts. But Eso allows me to travel parts of Tamriel We havnt yet seen and some that got updated, interact with other people, fight other players, all within the setting and lore I love and am familiar with. Keep them separate experiences, like how Oblivion is a vastly different experience from Skyrim. We dont need Elder Scrolls to become the next Star Wars where it literally has to be taken away from its original creator, and wipe out all previously established lore, just so we can have fun with it again.

Well said, the way I see it though If people want a powerful transformation then ask Zenimax to allow us to become Lichs or something of the like, they are up their with VLs in terms of power but the only difference is unlike a vampire lord, the lich is already quite common in this setting seeing as anyone with the guts and knowledge can turn themselves into one (Just ask any Random Daedric Prince and they will most likely know the ritual) thus having heaps of them running around wouldn't be as lore breaking.

Heck, Mannimarco was the "first" lich, I'm more than certain other worm cult members (possibly higher up) know how to become liches. It'd be an interesting alternative to those of us who would like a Transformation but dislike werewolves and vampires. Tho a lich would be magicka based, for balance we might have to add in another stamina based transformation as well... perhaps a Werecrocodile or Werebear

Yeah Mannimarco is just believed to be the first one because his followers say he is but the first ones would possibly be during the time of the dragons or even before the dragons, Basically Mannimarco has a vestige of his own you discover this when you fight him during the main questline, so he might not have died when the player kills him in elder scrolls four.
So bascially, Mannimacro might be a soul shriven with a soul, able to cheat death by being able to reform. This could explain why he has returned even when they thought he was dead.
I would like to see werecroc and wereshark added and us players able to get both of those conditions. It would epic to have a wereshark vs werecroc fight in cyrodill.

Technically due to a Dragonbreak from Arena, there's more than one Mannimarco, so it's possible to have killed him a could times without him disappearing from the world.

Well, no that was daggerfall by the way. Basically the jills of time seperated mannimacro from the god of worms. After he became a god his mortal/vestige version of him is sent back to nirn, but his celestial body the god of worms is still there just without the mind. Its just orbiting one of the planets and blocks arkay every 7 days so arkay is unable to protect the souls of mortals on that day so people are able to create black soul gems. So the mannimacro you fight in oblivion is most likely the mortal/vestige version of him, as a vestige he is able to reform after death. It might take some time for him to do so but its possible. I am thinking this is how they might return him in another elder scrolls game.

A dragon break makes all outcomes happen, I think one of the outcomes is denying mannimacro the ability to become a god, and thus both of those things happened when the jills repaired time.
So time is altered to allow all outcomes of a dragonbreak to happen. This in turn created the warp of the west, When the dwemer clockwork god is activated time itself is shattered anything can happen when a dragon break is in effect.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well, they could to vampirism that gives abilties such as this. They would give a more powerfull but balanced vampire abilties skill line. Basically the first one is Vampiric levitation, the second ability is to lift the target up and throw it back. The third ability allows you to summon a bat toggle Vampiric levitation is a toggle that basically makes your character like a floating mage, and certain abilties could possibly be made to work only in this state this would only be available to scions and they don't even need to look all batty either they could look like the character just basically the character is levitating off the ground.

If people want a vampire lord look with workable wings they could get a polymorpth from crown store that only works with vampirism it will not show on non vampires. Basically giving some more powerful vampire abilties. That is only available to a scion and I would like to see Levitation like the vampire lord in skyrim we don't need vampire lords themselves just some type of blood magic that they had access to.

I can see them adding this for us, and I would like the vampiric levitation idea I mentioned to be added, plus the vampire telekinesis ability and the bat cloak would be a buff to healing recovery, as they fly around you, this and the vampire telekinesis ability should only work if Vampiric levitation is toggled on. This would be a cool ability and I would like to see them give scions of lamae some cool vampire magic.

Levitation wouldn't work in this game, how else would the slaughterfish prevent you from getting to areas your not supposed to get to if you could?

They could have something like a werecroc jump out of the water and force you under the water or nocking the levaitation mode off, they could use a wereshark in the oceans. Their is ways to make sure levitation still does not give one a bypass.

I'll admit, I do like the idea of the first, canon, appearance of a wereshark, being just a beefed up alternative to slaughterfish for messing with Vampire Lords that try to go out to sea.

Everyone who answered yes to being a vampire lord, why? Guys, Vampire Lords are unique to a single strain of vampirism and only if you were at the very top of the food chain, lets not. It's asking for things like that that keeps the very real issues of vampirism from being addressed - the fact that it is an incomplete skill line with only one "useful" ability with only one good morph.

ParaNostram wrote: »

Everyone who answered yes to being a vampire lord, why? Guys, Vampire Lords are unique to a single strain of vampirism and only if you were at the very top of the food chain, lets not. It's asking for things like that that keeps the very real issues of vampirism from being addressed - the fact that it is an incomplete skill line with only one "useful" ability with only one good morph.

When you look at the damage from a few attacks say... the nb surprise attack where the guy takes a tiny dagger and swings it from one side of the body to another using shoulder muscle and hitting as hard as using two hands... I mean i guess people could bitsh slap others to dead lol

Do people really care for realism?

AddictionX wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Everyone who answered yes to being a vampire lord, why? Guys, Vampire Lords are unique to a single strain of vampirism and only if you were at the very top of the food chain, lets not. It's asking for things like that that keeps the very real issues of vampirism from being addressed - the fact that it is an incomplete skill line with only one "useful" ability with only one good morph.

When you look at the damage from a few attacks say... the nb surprise attack where the guy takes a tiny dagger and swings it from one side of the body to another using shoulder muscle and hitting as hard as using two hands... I mean i guess people could bitsh slap others to dead lol

Do people really care for realism?

Yes, as you'll read in various posts, some people do.