Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

Sure why not. I'd also like to see them offer a Dawnguard Faction as well, to play as a mutually exclusive counter to things like this. I think the counterpoint should offer separate but equal benefits, thereby making the monster/not-monster choice less of a big deal for players and more about style. It could even just be something different like turning into a gargoyle.

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

Vampire lords are supposed to be rare for starters. Which is why there was just Harkon, his wife and his daughter who had the ability in Skyrim. It's supposed to be bestowed from a pure blooded vampire (which isnt how you get vampireism in ESO) or from Molag Bal himself who is clearly preoccupied. On top of all that, since this is all taking place so far down the timeline before Skyrim, the more it does to separate itself from Skyrim the better imo.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

Vampire lords are supposed to be rare for starters. Which is why there was just Harkon, his wife and his daughter who had the ability in Skyrim. It's supposed to be bestowed from a pure blooded vampire (which isnt how you get vampireism in ESO) or from Molag Bal himself who is clearly preoccupied. On top of all that, since this is all taking place so far down the timeline before Skyrim, the more it does to separate itself from Skyrim the better imo.

Actually the Vestige's form of vampirism is one of the strongest ever bestowed, and you are given Vampirism by the FIRST VAMPIRE. I think something should be said of that. I don't think it should be anything overpowered, but if its like werewolf form I really don't see the harm in it. Werewolf form isn't that great, but it is fun (apart from the whole devouring mechanic). I do think something alternative but equal is fine, and that's why I offered the gargoyle idea.

You are granted vampirism in eso by either being attacked by bloodfiends, who obviously are not pure blooded vampire lords, or other players, who somewhere down the list of bites got it (also) from blood fiends. You are never bitten by a pure blooded vampire lord who received their powers from the ritual that involves molag bal himself.

catalyst10e wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

Vampire lords are supposed to be rare for starters. Which is why there was just Harkon, his wife and his daughter who had the ability in Skyrim. It's supposed to be bestowed from a pure blooded vampire (which isnt how you get vampireism in ESO) or from Molag Bal himself who is clearly preoccupied. On top of all that, since this is all taking place so far down the timeline before Skyrim, the more it does to separate itself from Skyrim the better imo.

Actually the Vestige's form of vampirism is one of the strongest ever bestowed, and you are given Vampirism by the FIRST VAMPIRE. I think something should be said of that. I don't think it should be anything overpowered, but if its like werewolf form I really don't see the harm in it. Werewolf form isn't that great, but it is fun (apart from the whole devouring mechanic). I do think something alternative but equal is fine, and that's why I offered the gargoyle idea.

You are granted vampirism in eso by either being attacked by bloodfiends, who obviously are not pure blooded vampire lords, or other players, who somewhere down the list of bites got it (also) from blood fiends. You are never bitten by a pure blooded vampire lord who received their powers from the ritual that involves molag bal himself.

You weren't paying attention to the Vampire story. You are right that the original infection starts from someone else, but you are ultimately remade by the first Vampire, who is decidedly more powerful than Harkon. Harkon is just sold out to Molag Bal, whereas Mother Lamae is your 'unmaker'. This is very much the way Harkon remakes you if you were previously a lowborn vampire in Skyrim. While the gift she gives you is different than what Harkon offers, I don't think you can definitely say Harkon is better or more powerful.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

Vampire lords are supposed to be rare for starters. Which is why there was just Harkon, his wife and his daughter who had the ability in Skyrim. It's supposed to be bestowed from a pure blooded vampire (which isnt how you get vampireism in ESO) or from Molag Bal himself who is clearly preoccupied. On top of all that, since this is all taking place so far down the timeline before Skyrim, the more it does to separate itself from Skyrim the better imo.

Actually the Vestige's form of vampirism is one of the strongest ever bestowed, and you are given Vampirism by the FIRST VAMPIRE. I think something should be said of that. I don't think it should be anything overpowered, but if its like werewolf form I really don't see the harm in it. Werewolf form isn't that great, but it is fun (apart from the whole devouring mechanic). I do think something alternative but equal is fine, and that's why I offered the gargoyle idea.

You are granted vampirism in eso by either being attacked by bloodfiends, who obviously are not pure blooded vampire lords, or other players, who somewhere down the list of bites got it (also) from blood fiends. You are never bitten by a pure blooded vampire lord who received their powers from the ritual that involves molag bal himself.

You weren't paying attention to the Vampire story. You are right that the original infection starts from someone else, but you are ultimately remade by the first Vampire, who is decidedly more powerful than Harkon. Harkon is just sold out to Molag Bal, whereas Mother Lamae is your 'unmaker'. This is very much the way Harkon remakes you if you were previously a lowborn vampire in Skyrim. While the gift she gives you is different than what Harkon offers, I don't think you can definitely say Harkon is better or more powerful.

Admittedly I didnt pay enough attention but my understanding of her ritual was you were drained of blood and then Lamae "transformed" you. Her transformation didn't seem to me like she was injecting you with her blood. (which is what Harkon does) But was just enhancing the "Porphyric Hemophilia" you contract via the bloodfiends. Tho I could be wrong in that respect. It seemed more that she was just granting you the powers of vampirism and not granting you vampire lord status of vampirism. Tho @Judas Helviaryn brings up the other part of it, different families have different strains of vampirism much like the different version of werewolves. (god help you in oblivion if you fast traveled as a vampire)

starkerealm wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

Vampire lords are supposed to be rare for starters. Which is why there was just Harkon, his wife and his daughter who had the ability in Skyrim. It's supposed to be bestowed from a pure blooded vampire (which isnt how you get vampireism in ESO) or from Molag Bal himself who is clearly preoccupied. On top of all that, since this is all taking place so far down the timeline before Skyrim, the more it does to separate itself from Skyrim the better imo.

Actually the Vestige's form of vampirism is one of the strongest ever bestowed, and you are given Vampirism by the FIRST VAMPIRE. I think something should be said of that. I don't think it should be anything overpowered, but if its like werewolf form I really don't see the harm in it. Werewolf form isn't that great, but it is fun (apart from the whole devouring mechanic). I do think something alternative but equal is fine, and that's why I offered the gargoyle idea.

You are granted vampirism in eso by either being attacked by bloodfiends, who obviously are not pure blooded vampire lords, or other players, who somewhere down the list of bites got it (also) from blood fiends. You are never bitten by a pure blooded vampire lord who received their powers from the ritual that involves molag bal himself.

You weren't paying attention to the Vampire story. You are right that the original infection starts from someone else, but you are ultimately remade by the first Vampire, who is decidedly more powerful than Harkon. Harkon is just sold out to Molag Bal, whereas Mother Lamae is your 'unmaker'. This is very much the way Harkon remakes you if you were previously a lowborn vampire in Skyrim. While the gift she gives you is different than what Harkon offers, I don't think you can definitely say Harkon is better or more powerful.

Admittedly I didnt pay enough attention but my understanding of her ritual was you were drained of blood and then Lamae "transformed" you. Her transformation didn't seem to me like she was injecting you with her blood. (which is what Harkon does) But was just enhancing the "Porphyric Hemophilia" you contract via the bloodfiends. Tho I could be wrong in that respect. It seemed more that she was just granting you the powers of vampirism and not granting you vampire lord status of vampirism. Tho @Judas Helviaryn brings up the other part of it, different families have different strains of vampirism much like the different version of werewolves. (god help you in oblivion if you fast traveled as a vampire)

You're not wrong. Being inducted personally by Lamae... or tripping balls and thinking Lamae is personally inducting you, is part of that bloodline's normal transformation ritual.

It's actually mentioned in a book somewhere. The ritual the player undergoes does finish the transformation into a vampire. But it doesn't actually make them special (aside from their soul already being bound to Molag Bal).

There is the fact that the Vestige is already a pretty awesome/powerful character (like the Nerevarine, The Dragonborn, or the Hero of Kvatch).

starkerealm wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

Vampire lords are supposed to be rare for starters. Which is why there was just Harkon, his wife and his daughter who had the ability in Skyrim. It's supposed to be bestowed from a pure blooded vampire (which isnt how you get vampireism in ESO) or from Molag Bal himself who is clearly preoccupied. On top of all that, since this is all taking place so far down the timeline before Skyrim, the more it does to separate itself from Skyrim the better imo.

Actually the Vestige's form of vampirism is one of the strongest ever bestowed, and you are given Vampirism by the FIRST VAMPIRE. I think something should be said of that. I don't think it should be anything overpowered, but if its like werewolf form I really don't see the harm in it. Werewolf form isn't that great, but it is fun (apart from the whole devouring mechanic). I do think something alternative but equal is fine, and that's why I offered the gargoyle idea.

You are granted vampirism in eso by either being attacked by bloodfiends, who obviously are not pure blooded vampire lords, or other players, who somewhere down the list of bites got it (also) from blood fiends. You are never bitten by a pure blooded vampire lord who received their powers from the ritual that involves molag bal himself.

You weren't paying attention to the Vampire story. You are right that the original infection starts from someone else, but you are ultimately remade by the first Vampire, who is decidedly more powerful than Harkon. Harkon is just sold out to Molag Bal, whereas Mother Lamae is your 'unmaker'. This is very much the way Harkon remakes you if you were previously a lowborn vampire in Skyrim. While the gift she gives you is different than what Harkon offers, I don't think you can definitely say Harkon is better or more powerful.

Admittedly I didnt pay enough attention but my understanding of her ritual was you were drained of blood and then Lamae "transformed" you. Her transformation didn't seem to me like she was injecting you with her blood. (which is what Harkon does) But was just enhancing the "Porphyric Hemophilia" you contract via the bloodfiends. Tho I could be wrong in that respect. It seemed more that she was just granting you the powers of vampirism and not granting you vampire lord status of vampirism. Tho @Judas Helviaryn brings up the other part of it, different families have different strains of vampirism much like the different version of werewolves. (god help you in oblivion if you fast traveled as a vampire)

You're not wrong. Being inducted personally by Lamae... or tripping balls and thinking Lamae is personally inducting you, is part of that bloodline's normal transformation ritual.

It's actually mentioned in a book somewhere. The ritual the player undergoes does finish the transformation into a vampire. But it doesn't actually make them special (aside from their soul already being bound to Molag Bal).

There is the fact that the Vestige is already a pretty awesome/powerful character (like the Nerevarine, The Dragonborn, or the Hero of Kvatch).

Ironically, the Oblivion protagonist is basically unpowered. The Nerevarine may actually be a Dragonborn, depending on your reading of the prophecies.

That said, it is basically impossible to kill a Vestige. Which is a whole other level of insane.

Well, I'd argue the Hero of Kvatch (depending how you look at it) is Ultimately Powered. Again it is a matter of how you view things, and whether or not you did did the Shivering Isles or not. While the Hero of Kvatch isn't dragonborn, he is something altogether equally as strange and that in itself is interesting.

With regard to the Nerevarine, one has to wonder who he is by the time the Skyrim tale comes around. I always found it surprising that there was no Cult of the Nerevarine among the Dunmer in Skyrim. After all, he is basically immortal/'divine', and is the incarnation of Nerevar if you take things that way (which the Dunmer would) in either of their two major religions (old and tribunal).

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Well, I'd argue the Hero of Kvatch (depending how you look at it) is Ultimately Powered. Again it is a matter of how you view things, and whether or not you did did the Shivering Isles or not. While the Hero of Kvatch isn't dragonborn, he is something altogether equally as strange and that in itself is interesting.

With regard to the Nerevarine, one has to wonder who he is by the time the Skyrim tale comes around. I always found it surprising that there was no Cult of the Nerevarine among the Dunmer in Skyrim. After all, he is basically immortal/'divine', and is the incarnation of Nerevar if you take things that way (which the Dunmer would) in either of their two major religions (old and tribunal).

Depending on how you play, the character in Oblivion can become a daedric prince. But, by default, they're just sort of, "that one guy." IIRC, the cannon name is The Imperial Champion, or something like that.

Actually, a major fan theory is that the Sheogorath in Skyrim actually is the player character from Oblivion.

With the Nerevarine, they're still referenced in passing if you dig into the Anticipations. The Dunmeri religion that replaced the Tribunal after Almalexia went kill crazy.

Tryxus wrote: »

Arena: Eternal Champion
Daggerfall: The Agent
Morrowind: Nerevarine
Oblivion: Hero of Kvatch or Champion of Cyrodiil
Skyrim: Last Dragonborn

Just thought I'd put this here for reference...

Could have sworn Skyrim's was just "The Dragonborn" because we're not completely certain there aren't others lurking in the background of the 4th Era.

Incidentally, I don't suppose you remember the term for Battlespire's protagonist?

starkerealm wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Well, I'd argue the Hero of Kvatch (depending how you look at it) is Ultimately Powered. Again it is a matter of how you view things, and whether or not you did did the Shivering Isles or not. While the Hero of Kvatch isn't dragonborn, he is something altogether equally as strange and that in itself is interesting.

With regard to the Nerevarine, one has to wonder who he is by the time the Skyrim tale comes around. I always found it surprising that there was no Cult of the Nerevarine among the Dunmer in Skyrim. After all, he is basically immortal/'divine', and is the incarnation of Nerevar if you take things that way (which the Dunmer would) in either of their two major religions (old and tribunal).

Depending on how you play, the character in Oblivion can become a daedric prince. But, by default, they're just sort of, "that one guy." IIRC, the cannon name is The Imperial Champion, or something like that.

Actually, a major fan theory is that the Sheogorath in Skyrim actually is the player character from Oblivion.

With the Nerevarine, they're still referenced in passing if you dig into the Anticipations. The Dunmeri religion that replaced the Tribunal after Almalexia went kill crazy.

The alternative idea of course is that Sheogorath is so crazy that the Hero of Kvatch is just one of many of his personalities. Would we say he's the personality of the madman in Skyrim? I'd imagine its hard to say, he's the daedra of complete and total order as well as ultimate madness. In terms of how this operates, it means that sometimes Sheogorath (in his Jyggy self) is actually behaving very Aedra-like. Just something to muse over. I almost feel like Sheogorath is one of those iffy figures who may be a lot like Malacath or Meridia, in the sense that he is Daedra but only by a twisting from other Daedra. By this point of view I'm not sure they could be completely viewed in the same light as the likes of Molag Bal. Then again we don't really know what made him either, as we are left with lots of conjecture and guesswork.

Tryxus wrote: »

He's the only one who's known, and both Miraak and the Elder Scrolls prophecy refer to him as "the Last Dragonborn"

Fair enough. I'd forgotten about the actual text of the prophecies.

Tryxus wrote: »

Battlespire, no clue

I looked it up out of curiosity, it's The Apprentice. Interestingly, one of the only Elder Scrolls protagonists I know of, alongside Cyrus, who actually has a canon name. Actually, two, depending on their gender.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

Vampire lords are supposed to be rare for starters. Which is why there was just Harkon, his wife and his daughter who had the ability in Skyrim. It's supposed to be bestowed from a pure blooded vampire (which isnt how you get vampireism in ESO) or from Molag Bal himself who is clearly preoccupied. On top of all that, since this is all taking place so far down the timeline before Skyrim, the more it does to separate itself from Skyrim the better imo.

Actually the Vestige's form of vampirism is one of the strongest ever bestowed, and you are given Vampirism by the FIRST VAMPIRE. I think something should be said of that. I don't think it should be anything overpowered, but if its like werewolf form I really don't see the harm in it. Werewolf form isn't that great, but it is fun (apart from the whole devouring mechanic). I do think something alternative but equal is fine, and that's why I offered the gargoyle idea.

You are granted vampirism in eso by either being attacked by bloodfiends, who obviously are not pure blooded vampire lords, or other players, who somewhere down the list of bites got it (also) from blood fiends. You are never bitten by a pure blooded vampire lord who received their powers from the ritual that involves molag bal himself.

You weren't paying attention to the Vampire story. You are right that the original infection starts from someone else, but you are ultimately remade by the first Vampire, who is decidedly more powerful than Harkon. Harkon is just sold out to Molag Bal, whereas Mother Lamae is your 'unmaker'. This is very much the way Harkon remakes you if you were previously a lowborn vampire in Skyrim. While the gift she gives you is different than what Harkon offers, I don't think you can definitely say Harkon is better or more powerful.

"who is decidedly more powerful than Harkon"

how do you know she is more powerful then Harkon? for all we know Harkon could be the reason she is in Coldharbour to begin with, For all we know this could indicate that she was most likely destroyed already and that is in the 2nd era while Hakron lives all the way to the 4th era and became a vampire not long after she did, Valerica will tell you that when she knew Harkon he had never lost a single battle even after hundreds had tried to slay him and all failed, also he has the power to create a shield that can't be penetrated by anything but a god weapon, Harkons power would clearly be in the same realm that Mannimarco's Power is in.

Also not all pureblooded vampires are vampire lords, Harkon sacrificed 1000 souls to Molag Bal, why would he of done that for regular vampirism?

phairdon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Sorry I have to vote no for lore reasons. Your current state needs a bit of a tweak, but not the Vampire Lord.

How can vampire lord form impact on lore? Considering players could become a vampire lord in Skyrim.

The Dragonborn is a mortal Demi-god who got bitten by a former king turned Vampire Lord who became that way by sacrificing 1000 souls to Molag Bal and even when the Dragonborn was bitten Harkon didn't actually intend for you to survive the Transformation, he even says that in the Final Battle that he never intended on letting you live.

Not to mention Harkon outright claims that a Vampire Lord to others Vampires is basically the same as what a King is to their subjects, you would be lucky if more then 10 vampire lords like Harkon were ever actually created and even that's being generous, now tell me how hundreds of people with the vampiric status that is equvilanet to that of a King running around the same spot lorefriendly? the answer is its not...also its a different vampire strain and besides lorewise 1 Single VL would have the power to take out an entire pack of werewolves by themselves, Basically the magic of a Lich and Strength of a Lycanthrope rolled into 1, how could you balance such power in game terms? You might as well ask if we can get the Blessing from the Amulet of Kings back while your at it as you would have already stepped over the line of what is Balanced and what isn't and besides the Vestige isn't that strong and is one of many people that's the whole point of the game, so we have to fight in groups alongside other Vestiges.