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Jesus Beam vs. Other Executes
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Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I feel like...this is an apples and oranges type comparison, a channeled ability is obviously going to do more damage than an instant execute, but it also has the liabilities of being interruptable and leaves the caster vulnerable for the duration of the cast time, which is...3 seconds? I believe? That's a long time to be in an animation that impairs movement and defense.
Edit: and I forgot to add, in the 3 seconds that a jesus beam takes to channel, how many of those other executes could you get off?
Block.
Voila. No longer 'vulnerable'.
you cant block and channel simultaniously...
Obviously. Her point is, templars often cite how using jesus beam leaves the user so vulnerable as if they are locked into the channel and at the mercy of their enemies while using this skill. In fact, its as simple as pressing block to cancel the channel and reposition if you feel vulnerable on a particular cast. Claiming the vulnerability of being locked into a channel as a shortcoming to this attack is a very weak argument. Besides, you shouldn't be channeling the skill for more than 2 or 3 ticks on purpose anyways unless you're cheesing the skill from inside a zerg, at which point the vulnerability is a non issue.
You do realize you get charged the full cost of the skill each time you cast it, right? Templars have the worst resource management of all classes, and some of the most expensive skills. Block cancelling the skill every time runs is inefficient and can run you into resource issues.
It's a channel with a laser beam shooting from your hand telegraphing your position, you feel vulnerable on EVERY cast, not just a 'particular cast'. I fail to see how your level of argument shouldn't apply to telling the person being jesus beamed to interrupt, LOS, or purge if they feel particularly vulnerable while being jesus'd.3 -
Winnamine✭✭✭✭✭I feel like...this is an apples and oranges type comparison, a channeled ability is obviously going to do more damage than an instant execute, but it also has the liabilities of being interruptable and leaves the caster vulnerable for the duration of the cast time, which is...3 seconds? I believe? That's a long time to be in an animation that impairs movement and defense.
Edit: and I forgot to add, in the 3 seconds that a jesus beam takes to channel, how many of those other executes could you get off?
Block.
Voila. No longer 'vulnerable'.
you cant block and channel simultaniously...
Obviously. Her point is, templars often cite how using jesus beam leaves the user so vulnerable as if they are locked into the channel and at the mercy of their enemies while using this skill. In fact, its as simple as pressing block to cancel the channel and reposition if you feel vulnerable on a particular cast. Claiming the vulnerability of being locked into a channel as a shortcoming to this attack is a very weak argument. Besides, you shouldn't be channeling the skill for more than 2 or 3 ticks on purpose anyways unless you're cheesing the skill from inside a zerg, at which point the vulnerability is a non issue.
And my point is, unlike those other executes, jesus beam requires the caster to stand there with a laser beam shooting from their hand for 3 seconds, in order to use it. Sure, if you cancel it, you're no longer vulnerable, but you're also no longer casting your execute. Those other executes don't come with that liability.
It's just a little disingenuous to compare a channeled execute to instant executes to make your point that the channeled execute is too strong.Winni
~
VE
Decibel2 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Templars have the worst resource management of all classes
Channeled focus, repentence. No.0 -
Axyredo✭✭✭I feel like...this is an apples and oranges type comparison, a channeled ability is obviously going to do more damage than an instant execute, but it also has the liabilities of being interruptable and leaves the caster vulnerable for the duration of the cast time, which is...3 seconds? I believe? That's a long time to be in an animation that impairs movement and defense.
Edit: and I forgot to add, in the 3 seconds that a jesus beam takes to channel, how many of those other executes could you get off?
Block.
Voila. No longer 'vulnerable'.
you cant block and channel simultaniously...
Obviously. Her point is, templars often cite how using jesus beam leaves the user so vulnerable as if they are locked into the channel and at the mercy of their enemies while using this skill. In fact, its as simple as pressing block to cancel the channel and reposition if you feel vulnerable on a particular cast. Claiming the vulnerability of being locked into a channel as a shortcoming to this attack is a very weak argument. Besides, you shouldn't be channeling the skill for more than 2 or 3 ticks on purpose anyways unless you're cheesing the skill from inside a zerg, at which point the vulnerability is a non issue.
You do realize you get charged the full cost of the skill each time you cast it, right? Templars have the worst resource management of all classes, and some of the most expensive skills. Block cancelling the skill every time runs is inefficient and can run you into resource issues.
It's a channel with a laser beam shooting from your hand telegraphing your position, you feel vulnerable on EVERY cast, not just a 'particular cast'. I fail to see how your level of argument shouldn't apply to telling the person being jesus beamed to interrupt, LOS, or purge if they feel particularly vulnerable while being jesus'd.
Templars have channeled focus and repentance.Havoc
EP Dragonknight - Axyredo
EP/DC Templar - Axy
#NerfMagicDK0 -
Screw it I am not even bothering with this thread anymore.Edited by Enraged_Tiki_Torch on March 20, 2016 7:04PMMy solution to Champion Point System here2 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Sorc, WTB ruined focus + repentance. Wiling to trade dark deal + pets. With mines I can finally make a sorc house.
1 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Channeled focus was nerfed this patch (and removes rapids because #wrobelreasons), and repentence gives the same or LOWER base regen than other classes get as a passive, but templars have to slot it as an active because #homogenization. Coming from the woman who is complaining about having to slot purge, should you really be talking about repentance?
Sorcs get passive 10% magicka regen, NB get passive 15% regen to everything, DK's get battle roar and helping hands, and templars have ... nothing for passive resource return. To top it off, as I said before, templars and sorcs have some of the most expensive skills in the game on top of the resource issues, with most of the useful ones being casts or channels.
So you're right Jules, when it comes to addressing resource issues, channeled focus, repentence - No. Doesn't quite cut it. Glad we finally agree on something, that's progress.Edited by Zheg on March 20, 2016 8:02PM7 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Sorc, WTB ruined focus + repentance. Wiling to trade dark deal + pets. With mines I can finally make a sorc house.
Willing to trade focus for streak, DF for frags, and repentance for curse/mines/or hardened ward - your pick
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CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Zheg I'm not at all saying to block cancel every cast. Only that you are never locked into radiant destruction and can opt out of the channel whenever the situation calls for it. Therefore, you are only vulnerable while channeling radiant if you let yourself be.
@Winnamine For the record, I'm not on the nerf radiant bandwagon. I think it's one of the strongest skills in the game, but I'm neutral on the matter. Yes, comparing it to insta cast executes is apples and oranges. Each has pros and cons, and I never claimed radiant is too strong. I do see you perspective, but here's the thing. You are never required to channel it for 3 seconds. With high enough damage and the fact that the first tick always crits, if you time it right, radiant will instantly melt the opponent without the beam even leaving your hand. If you cast it and then see that it was a bad decision in that instance, you can easily block cancel instead of waiting out the whole channel. If you choose to channel it for longer or use it on someone outside execute range, you're welcome to. But then you have to accept the risk that comes with that decision, and that is balance.
I'm not saying nerf radiant or that it's broken guys. Just that you are only bound to the channel if you choose to be. It's only a vulnerability if you use it recklessly.0 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭
Channeled focus was nerfed this patch (and removes rapids because #wrobelreasons), and repentence gives the same or LOWER base regen than other classes get as a passive, but templars have to slot it as an active because #homogenization. Coming from the woman who is complaining about having to slot purge, should you really be talking about repentance?
Sorcs get passive 10% magicka regen, NB get passive 15% regen to everything, DK's get battle roar and helping hands, and templars have ... nothing for passive resource return. To top it off, as I said before, templars and sorcs have some of the most expensive skills in the game on top of the resource issues, with most of the useful ones being casts or channels.
So you're right Jules, when it comes to addressing resource issues, channeled focus, repentence - No. Doesn't quite cut it. Glad we finally agree on something, that's progress.
Templar once had "Restoring Spirit" which was taken away because of mimi.
Sorc also has 20%stam and healthregen right?Edited by Mumyo on March 20, 2016 8:20PM1 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Your in a Templar house, you don't get to set the terms of exchange. One more uppity word from you and I'm telling Wrobel to reposes your house.HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Sorc, WTB ruined focus + repentance. Wiling to trade dark deal + pets. With mines I can finally make a sorc house.
Willing to trade focus for streak, DF for frags, and repentance for curse/mines/or hardened ward - your pick0 -
Firerock2✭✭✭✭✭
Ahahaha! If we ignore the fact that the other classives have way better passives for resource management and just look at the cost of spells you would see that Templars have the most expensive spells in the game. So outside of having the absolute worst passives they also have the most resource intensive abilities. Channeled focus does not cut it, Repentence is nice but it doesn't even put our regen on par with that of a nightblade's and it takes up a slot on our bar.
You really have no idea what you are talking about.3 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Ahahaha! If we ignore the fact that the other classives have way better passives for resource management and just look at the cost of spells you would see that Templars have the most expensive spells in the game. So outside of having the absolute worst passives they also have the most resource intensive abilities. Channeled focus does not cut it, Repentence is nice but it doesn't even put our regen on par with that of a nightblade's and it takes up a slot on our bar.
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
I literally never run out of magicka with 40k magicka and channeled focus. Doesn't matter if I have a measly 1500 regen, channeled focus is incredible. Also, if you kill people, repentence is not only free, gives 10% regen on that bar and also restores much needed stam. To say that templars as a whole have poor resource management is just not true.0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Ahahaha! If we ignore the fact that the other classives have way better passives for resource management and just look at the cost of spells you would see that Templars have the most expensive spells in the game. So outside of having the absolute worst passives they also have the most resource intensive abilities. Channeled focus does not cut it, Repentence is nice but it doesn't even put our regen on par with that of a nightblade's and it takes up a slot on our bar.
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
I literally never run out of magicka with 40k magicka and channeled focus. Doesn't matter if I have a measly 1500 regen, channeled focus is incredible. Also, if you kill people, repentence is not only free, gives 10% regen on that bar and also restores much needed stam. To say that templars as a whole have poor resource management is just not true.
Have you tried healing a haxus group while assaulting a keep outnumbered, in siege, in this patch Jules? No, probably not; you will most certainly strain your magicka resources during those fights. There are far better templars out there than me, but you're talking like you have a wealth of experience playing templar when a majority of your play time is spent on other classes. Roughly how many hours a night do you spend on your templar in pvp? Because I haven't seen you play yours at all this patch, and your tone seems to imply quite the opposite.
Yes, templars know how repentence works, thanks a bunch for the explanation. Templars most certainly have poor resource management when compared to other classes (sorcs are debatable, but sorcs also get things that templars don't), and there's 85+ pages of detailed feedback explaining the many class issues on PTS. For someone that spends sooo much time on her templar, ironic you were no where to be found in that thread, or any of the others.4 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭
Ahahaha! If we ignore the fact that the other classives have way better passives for resource management and just look at the cost of spells you would see that Templars have the most expensive spells in the game. So outside of having the absolute worst passives they also have the most resource intensive abilities. Channeled focus does not cut it, Repentence is nice but it doesn't even put our regen on par with that of a nightblade's and it takes up a slot on our bar.
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
I literally never run out of magicka with 40k magicka and channeled focus. Doesn't matter if I have a measly 1500 regen, channeled focus is incredible. Also, if you kill people, repentence is not only free, gives 10% regen on that bar and also restores much needed stam. To say that templars as a whole have poor resource management is just not true.
It was said that its the worst of all classes and that is simply true but doesn't mean its absolute ***.
I also think we shouldn't get more regen or anything since most of the time every class has way too much regen anyways.
On the cp campaign, nobody ever runs out of anything.
Nerf regen!0 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Ahahaha! If we ignore the fact that the other classives have way better passives for resource management and just look at the cost of spells you would see that Templars have the most expensive spells in the game. So outside of having the absolute worst passives they also have the most resource intensive abilities. Channeled focus does not cut it, Repentence is nice but it doesn't even put our regen on par with that of a nightblade's and it takes up a slot on our bar.
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
I literally never run out of magicka with 40k magicka and channeled focus. Doesn't matter if I have a measly 1500 regen, channeled focus is incredible. Also, if you kill people, repentence is not only free, gives 10% regen on that bar and also restores much needed stam. To say that templars as a whole have poor resource management is just not true.
Have you tried healing a haxus group while assaulting a keep outnumbered, in siege, in this patch Jules? No, probably not; you will most certainly strain your magicka resources during those fights. There are far better templars out there than me, but you're talking like you have a wealth of experience playing templar when a majority of your play time is spent on other classes. Roughly how many hours a night do you spend on your templar in pvp? Because I haven't seen you play yours at all this patch, and your tone seems to imply quite the opposite.
Yes, templars know how repentence works, thanks a bunch for the explanation. Templars most certainly have poor resource management when compared to other classes (sorcs are debatable, but sorcs also get things that templars don't), and there's 85+ pages of detailed feedback explaining the many class issues on PTS. For someone that spends sooo much time on her templar, ironic you were no where to be found in that thread, or any of the others.
Whilst you may be right, your tone is pretty poor Zheg, you're better than the condescending nature of your latest posts.2 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Ahahaha! If we ignore the fact that the other classives have way better passives for resource management and just look at the cost of spells you would see that Templars have the most expensive spells in the game. So outside of having the absolute worst passives they also have the most resource intensive abilities. Channeled focus does not cut it, Repentence is nice but it doesn't even put our regen on par with that of a nightblade's and it takes up a slot on our bar.
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
I literally never run out of magicka with 40k magicka and channeled focus. Doesn't matter if I have a measly 1500 regen, channeled focus is incredible. Also, if you kill people, repentence is not only free, gives 10% regen on that bar and also restores much needed stam. To say that templars as a whole have poor resource management is just not true.
Have you tried healing a haxus group while assaulting a keep outnumbered, in siege, in this patch Jules? No, probably not; you will most certainly strain your magicka resources during those fights. There are far better templars out there than me, but you're talking like you have a wealth of experience playing templar when a majority of your play time is spent on other classes. Roughly how many hours a night do you spend on your templar in pvp? Because I haven't seen you play yours at all this patch, and your tone seems to imply quite the opposite.
Yes, templars know how repentence works, thanks a bunch for the explanation. Templars most certainly have poor resource management when compared to other classes (sorcs are debatable, but sorcs also get things that templars don't), and there's 85+ pages of detailed feedback explaining the many class issues on PTS. For someone that spends sooo much time on her templar, ironic you were no where to be found in that thread, or any of the others.
Whilst you may be right, your tone is pretty poor Zheg, you're better than the condescending nature of your latest posts.
Given the forum TOS, condescending is really all that's left when absurd and/or factually incorrect statements are repeated after having already been corrected. If the shoe was reversed and this were a DK thread, Jules would have been in defcon 5 mode by page two.
I'm glad you have/had a higher opinion of me though. Unfortunately, with this patch being such a clustereff and CU beta opening in <2 weeks, I've just reached a point where idgaf anymore and am embracing full sarcasm mode in my final days.3 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Ahahaha! If we ignore the fact that the other classives have way better passives for resource management and just look at the cost of spells you would see that Templars have the most expensive spells in the game. So outside of having the absolute worst passives they also have the most resource intensive abilities. Channeled focus does not cut it, Repentence is nice but it doesn't even put our regen on par with that of a nightblade's and it takes up a slot on our bar.
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
I literally never run out of magicka with 40k magicka and channeled focus. Doesn't matter if I have a measly 1500 regen, channeled focus is incredible. Also, if you kill people, repentence is not only free, gives 10% regen on that bar and also restores much needed stam. To say that templars as a whole have poor resource management is just not true.
Have you tried healing a haxus group while assaulting a keep outnumbered, in siege, in this patch Jules? No, probably not; you will most certainly strain your magicka resources during those fights. There are far better templars out there than me, but you're talking like you have a wealth of experience playing templar when a majority of your play time is spent on other classes. Roughly how many hours a night do you spend on your templar in pvp? Because I haven't seen you play yours at all this patch, and your tone seems to imply quite the opposite.
Yes, templars know how repentence works, thanks a bunch for the explanation. Templars most certainly have poor resource management when compared to other classes (sorcs are debatable, but sorcs also get things that templars don't), and there's 85+ pages of detailed feedback explaining the many class issues on PTS. For someone that spends sooo much time on her templar, ironic you were no where to be found in that thread, or any of the others.
Whilst you may be right, your tone is pretty poor Zheg, you're better than the condescending nature of your latest posts.
Given the forum TOS, condescending is really all that's left when absurd and/or factually incorrect statements are repeated after having already been corrected. If the shoe was reversed and this were a DK thread, Jules would have been in defcon 5 mode by page two.
I'm glad you have/had a higher opinion of me though. Unfortunately, with this patch being such a clustereff and CU beta opening in <2 weeks, I've just reached a point where idgaf anymore and am embracing full sarcasm mode in my final days.
I still do. I lol'd.1 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »Zheg's templar house is actually a retirement home.
Confirmed. Books and I already talked about taking up bingo in the old folk's home last night.
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Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So when do we buff Nightblades?
When do we get a house?Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So when do we buff Nightblades?
When do we get a house?
You get a house when the rest of the templar population rerolls and wrobel realizes he now has to nerf his own class (ohhh, the divine justice) because the people he used to nerf are now playing NB.
DB patch notes: "We've reduced the damage of blazing spears sap essence because it was doing higher damage than intended" - are you ready for it? I already have my NB to v16...Edited by Zheg on March 20, 2016 10:41PM2 -
phillyboy7897✭✭✭✭It's bc the thread is getting necro'd and he's worn out this is repetitive... Temps don't necro IMO let nerfsquad necro if they wantV16 Magicka Templar only
Check out my Bs on youtube for 1vX same as forum name same as gamertag: Phillyboy78970 -
phillyboy7897✭✭✭✭Zharg pure rage modeV16 Magicka Templar only
Check out my Bs on youtube for 1vX same as forum name same as gamertag: Phillyboy78971
