The reason why nobody cares is because barely anyone uses it in PVP.

So why nerf a PVE skill?

Rock Paper Scissors is balance.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

I think we all have own concept of balance.

Would it be fun game if every player could balance it to their liking? I'd love to play that kind of shooter.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people on here won't be happy until their particular play style has the emperor buff 24/7, but no one else gets to have it.

I think that kind of game would be tons of fun. We all would be like Formula 1 drivers and blame the car/balance and tweak it.

Bethesda, you still have time to add it to Doom. Please, its going to be mad-fun.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Concealed weapon does 7% more damage than Swallow Soul, and costs double the amount. Heck Concealed Weapon doesn't really do anything for you except increase your stealth speed; whereas Swallow Soul not only heals you but has a 28m range.

Are you saying that stunning an enemy and putting them off-balance for 4 seconds isn't doing anything for you? I know that's the main reason why I use Concealed Weapon.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I just made two polls. One was asking if we should increase the cost of Strife, and the overwhelming majority said no. The other was asking if we should decrease the cost of Veiled Strike, and the overwhelming majority said no. It's obvious that the people who post on here are either clueless, selfish, or both.

Concealed weapon does 7% more damage than Swallow Soul, and costs double the amount. Heck Concealed Weapon doesn't really do anything for you except increase your stealth speed; whereas Swallow Soul not only heals you but has a 28m range. And I guarantee you the reason why they said no on decreasing the cost of veiled strike was because they knew that by doing so; you'd be decreasing the cost of Surprise Attack; which news flash! Stamina builds have astronomically worse resource management than magicka builds.

The damage of these two moves are comparable. The utility, and cost however is not. Strife needs to have it's cost increased by 40%, and Veiled Strike needs to have it's cost reduced by 20%; which means decreasing the cost of Surprise Attack as well.

Lol, thank you for sharing your superior intellect.

Both the skills have their own use and utility. It would appear the majority simply feel both skills are fine as they are.

As for your polls, you must also realize the vast majority of players simply ignore them or troll them because most of the polls on here are extremely biased or complete rubbish.

Aren't you the same guy who made a post about how templars are going to be the OP class this patch?

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Rock Paper Scissors is balance.

Agreed, the vast majority of people here don't have a sense of balance or perspective. This includes people who constantly whine about stamina every single day as if it's crippled, when stamina is still very good and many are still having great success with stamina builds in this current patch.

'Balance' is a boogeyman that bad players constantly harp on about and blame for their personal shortcomings and l2p issues. A good understanding of balance doesn't come from raging at your death recap, it comes from playing all the classes and having perspective. Unfortunately, the majority of posts regarding balance on here are motivated by the former. As far as I'm concerned, the game is extremely balanced right now except for 3 things and that is shield stacking on magicka sorcerer's, how Stam sorc is slightly under par compared to Stam dk/templar/NB, and a lack of physical ultimate options. And even then it's not game breaking bad. Every class and play style is viable and competitive with one another, even if in different ways, given a competent player with a good build. 9 out of 10 posts on these forums make me shake my head.

Is the game 100% balanced between all variables? Ofc not and I don't know how you could ever possibly quantify or expect something like that. But the game isn't nearly as imbalanced as the crybabies on these forums make it out to be on a daily basis. All of you need to just quit your bitchin and git gud.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

The damage of these two moves are comparable. The utility, and cost however is not. Strife needs to have it's cost increased by 40%, and Veiled Strike needs to have it's cost reduced by 20%; which means decreasing the cost of Surprise Attack as well.

How did you reach the conclusion that this will make Strife and Surprise Attack balanced?

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Liukke wrote: »

Balance is a big Taboo, it takes long time to figure out how to make things work so it's impossible that people on the forum could give "positive" suggestions about how numbers should go.
I think it's stupid giving mechanics suggestion on the forum, since everyone of us has its view of the game, with its little experience that does not make the whole picture at all.

I just think that you could only give number related suggestion, like "ehy look, the first 30 places in vMA are held by magicka users, is there something wrong?" and then let the developers figure out what can be done.
Saying things like "you need to nerf this, double the cost in that, give us this piece of gear" is totally useless, since none of us is a hired developer of this game and does not know EVERY mechanic around it.
Still i think the game is unbalanced on the magicka side (as i wrote before, numbers speak by themselves, sorcs and magicka users are the best, no matter what) but I cannot give any advice on what needs to be changed.

That would be the logical approach but this is how it happened.

"Hmmm all the top players doing VMSA are magicka users, and the ones getting Flawless the easiest are magicka Sorcs and magicka Templars. Let's give them a buff and nerf all stamina builds."

Genius!

That's another argument for PvP Arenas. Through Arena winrates ZOS could take a look at the overperforming builds.

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Rat-King wrote: »

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Rock Paper Scissors is balance.

Person playing Rock all the time: Ugh, Paper is OP! Nerf them!

Another person: Why don't you play Scissor some of the time?

PPRATT: Why should I change my playing style because of a broken game?

Yeah, except there aren't any significant RPS mechanics in this game... Everyone is rock and it's all about who has the biggest stones.

My Magicka NB runs Strife on my resto bar and Concealed Weapon on my DW bar. I only use Strife to initiate some fights, when I have an opportunity to keep my distance (which is pretty rare, except against sorcs), and when I am running low on magicka. If they increase the cost of Strife I wouldn't even bother putting it on my bar, and if they decrease the cost of Veiled Strike it would make one of the strongest PVP classes even stronger. Balance doesn't mean homogenizing everything by making similar skills cost the same, it means creating trade-offs between skills, such as sacrificing some damage, a stun, additional resistance, and the ability to go through reflects in exchange for range and a lower magicka cost.

Doncellius wrote: »

@Strider_Roshin You come off as a Nightblade whos build revolves around spamming Veiled Strike, and who doesn't use Strife. Are you? I have never had issues with nightblades who spam Strife. Literally zero nightblades who spam Strife have proven difficult to defeat (maybe it's just my luck).

I've had significant trouble when a high Spell or Weapon Damage NB using Lotus Fan/Concealed Weapon hits me for 50+% of my health from stealth before Fearing (Ambush/Surprise Attack). Almost all Nightblades do this. That is a powerful combo, and strife may be strong but it is never spammed in Magicka NB rotations I've had to face. Decreasing the cost of Veiled Strike is the very definition of a Wroble-esque balance, to make a powerful skill significantly better while removing alternatives.

40% increase cost for Strife and 20% decrease cost of Veiled Strike = Nightblade buff. I rarely use my V3 nightblade, yet he DOES NOT need this buff.

Exactly this. As though the Proxy Det, Sap, Soul Tether combo weren't strong enough, lets make Veiled Strike stronger too!

My most played character is a Magicka NB, btw, and I would view the OP's proposed changes as a buff to a really strong class, while some other house-based classes are still suffering.