Zheg wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

ITT: Templars can't single-handedly heal a raid anymore, waahh wahh ZOS plz?


It was outrageous enough that a Templar could spam BoL and heal an entire raid(I've ran in 12 man groups where @PenguinInACan single-handedly healed all of us while not even in a 5pc light armor heal build, using Honor the Dead....) Now Templar healers are not a source of clutch heals for an entire zerg. A skillful group will consist of players that have some basic knowledge of self responsibility and won't be reliant on their healers like a newborn baby is reliant on their mother to feed and pamper them.

Says the sorcerer who never has to worry about his hp actually dropping because he can spam shields all day long. "My healer can keep up 12 people with honor the dead, which heals one person, clearly everyone else needs to L2P - now let me streak away from the permaroot spam and pop some more shields so I never have to be healed".

lol


Bombard messes me up just as much as anyone, my streak is one-directional.


My health as a sorc drops plenty, just ask @DisgracefulMind who pocket-healed my sorry-butt the other day. I also play a neutered magic DK, I know very well what it's like to have a Templar saving my ass, thank you very much. You wouldn't know though. 90% of your play-time you have the protection of your raid. This has nothing to do with sorcs. My shields melt when I participate in large fights. Sorcs need healers just as much as a roll-dodger stam build or a DK, or even templars need other healers depending on the situation. But now, there is actually balance. BoL lost one target to heal, wow templars are really bad now, nerf magic DK healer builds. Hell, lets nerf sorc shields too cuz why not, even though it's not even part of this damn discussion.


Yes, Templars have been gutted. You must all reroll FOTM DK healer build now cuz 4k healing spring ticks. The end is nigh. Waaaahhh wahhhh.

I've had to become a nomad and move my house consistently to heal QAM
Sorcs take so much damage, and their shields do NOT always save them. Honestly, I find myself spamming BoL on a sorc more than any other class. Not sure what relevance sorc shields have in this discussion, though

But, no, seriously, BoL nerf is fine. I've had no problems so far in small groups. It's a good change, I didn't like it at first because I was worried for small scale Templar, but it's completely fine.

Shields entered the conversation because if you have more people with strong shields in a group (whether small man or a raid), and that pretty much equates to having sorcs in group, you don't need your healer to be pumping out anywhere near as much in heals as you would if the group were made up of other classes. No one said sorcs never die, but having a sorc that spends most of his time farming pugs away from major fights in a sorc heavy group come in and say that healing is just fine, you all need to L2P because my group doesn't need them is /eyeroll worthy.

We spent about 2+ hours at arrius mine under heavy siege and constantly fighting reds; the next time Qaevir takes his small man to a situation like that and his healer keeps 12 people alive with honor the dead, in this meta, then his input might be worthwhile. Until then, it just sounds like someone who has zero experience healing, particularly in the current meta, is trying to inject himself into a conversation without actually doing any homework.

I believe QAM was referencing the power of Templar heals in the last patch, as a way to defend them needing to be brought down a notch. Nor was he saying his group doesn't need them. I'd say, for the PvP that I share an interest in which is small-scale, a Templar healer is absolutely necessary and valuable, and I'm sure he'd agree.

The BoL nerf is fine. I'm nervously waiting to see how Fasalla's Guile is going to affect me, but other than that there is no issue. The nerf, imo, was a direct nerf to large-scale groups, and that's fine.

As for farming pugs. Do you expect a group of 3-5 to wipe a whole zerg? Maybe with vicious death, but as it stands, small groups go to where small groups are valuable, which is choke points, in between sieged keeps and such. Not all those players small-groups take out can be considered pugs either. I would think it's better to discuss decently the impacts of this nerf without attacking playstyles. We all don't share in the appreciation of large-scale, just like some don't share in the appreciation of small-scale.

I would suggest that there are plenty of small man groups and solo players that enjoy large fights and go to them, and are not just fighting on the transit lines. You really should be trying to heal in those fights, under heavy counter siege, because otherwise your experience and perspective are highly skewed, and I'm not quite sure how it's appropriate to make blanket statements that a change is fine when you aren't even fighting in the same environment most players (not even talking about raids here) are. If you're healing in those situations and still think the changes are fine, that's your opinion and I'll respect it.

Most of my time I've spent on my Templar this patch has been me solo roaming at keep defenses, healing the pugs and helping where I can. I enjoy large fights as well, I just don't believe the entire game should cater specifically to them.

I could say the same about your opinion as well, since our playstyles are, as it seems, night and day, but I've chosen to respect your opinion. As you've noticed, I've held a respectful manner with you. I don't feel the breath of life nerf is overboard.

I do, however, feel that they should have accommodated Templars and given us something to help with our mobility given that snares are absolutely everywhere. I think that is where most Templars are hurting right now.

Like so many others, you assume I don't solo or small man. I spent maybe a 1/4 of my pvp time solo'ing last patch on my trollplar. Most of our pvp time before and after raid is small man stuff. Most of the testing we did on the first 2 days of the patch was solo and small man as well. My conclusions were reached after playing in all 3 styles of pvp, on different build tweaks. Qaevir implied you'd be able to keep up a group of 12 with honor the dead just fine, and while I don't mean it as an affront to your ability (particularly because I've seen you before and know you're a capable pvper), I certainly don't think such claims can nor should be made if it's being done in isolated scenarios that aren't even similar to what major pvp fights look like. Was that example he referenced even on the current patch?

For ~1/3 the night on Tuesday it was me and just one other healer for the entire raid (not to ignore the cross-heals from the dps in group), so yes, healers can keep groups up - to an extent, but acting like there's nothing wrong and it's just an L2P issue, which is what someone that doesn't even play a healer came in and did, doesn't really fly. I love how challenging it is in this patch, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to the flaws.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

ITT: Templars can't single-handedly heal a raid anymore, waahh wahh ZOS plz?


It was outrageous enough that a Templar could spam BoL and heal an entire raid(I've ran in 12 man groups where @PenguinInACan single-handedly healed all of us while not even in a 5pc light armor heal build, using Honor the Dead....) Now Templar healers are not a source of clutch heals for an entire zerg. A skillful group will consist of players that have some basic knowledge of self responsibility and won't be reliant on their healers like a newborn baby is reliant on their mother to feed and pamper them.

Says the sorcerer who never has to worry about his hp actually dropping because he can spam shields all day long. "My healer can keep up 12 people with honor the dead, which heals one person, clearly everyone else needs to L2P - now let me streak away from the permaroot spam and pop some more shields so I never have to be healed".

lol


Bombard messes me up just as much as anyone, my streak is one-directional.


My health as a sorc drops plenty, just ask @DisgracefulMind who pocket-healed my sorry-butt the other day. I also play a neutered magic DK, I know very well what it's like to have a Templar saving my ass, thank you very much. You wouldn't know though. 90% of your play-time you have the protection of your raid. This has nothing to do with sorcs. My shields melt when I participate in large fights. Sorcs need healers just as much as a roll-dodger stam build or a DK, or even templars need other healers depending on the situation. But now, there is actually balance. BoL lost one target to heal, wow templars are really bad now, nerf magic DK healer builds. Hell, lets nerf sorc shields too cuz why not, even though it's not even part of this damn discussion.


Yes, Templars have been gutted. You must all reroll FOTM DK healer build now cuz 4k healing spring ticks. The end is nigh. Waaaahhh wahhhh.

I've had to become a nomad and move my house consistently to heal QAM
Sorcs take so much damage, and their shields do NOT always save them. Honestly, I find myself spamming BoL on a sorc more than any other class. Not sure what relevance sorc shields have in this discussion, though

But, no, seriously, BoL nerf is fine. I've had no problems so far in small groups. It's a good change, I didn't like it at first because I was worried for small scale Templar, but it's completely fine.

Shields entered the conversation because if you have more people with strong shields in a group (whether small man or a raid), and that pretty much equates to having sorcs in group, you don't need your healer to be pumping out anywhere near as much in heals as you would if the group were made up of other classes. No one said sorcs never die, but having a sorc that spends most of his time farming pugs away from major fights in a sorc heavy group come in and say that healing is just fine, you all need to L2P because my group doesn't need them is /eyeroll worthy.

We spent about 2+ hours at arrius mine under heavy siege and constantly fighting reds; the next time Qaevir takes his small man to a situation like that and his healer keeps 12 people alive with honor the dead, in this meta, then his input might be worthwhile. Until then, it just sounds like someone who has zero experience healing, particularly in the current meta, is trying to inject himself into a conversation without actually doing any homework.

I believe QAM was referencing the power of Templar heals in the last patch, as a way to defend them needing to be brought down a notch. Nor was he saying his group doesn't need them. I'd say, for the PvP that I share an interest in which is small-scale, a Templar healer is absolutely necessary and valuable, and I'm sure he'd agree.

The BoL nerf is fine. I'm nervously waiting to see how Fasalla's Guile is going to affect me, but other than that there is no issue. The nerf, imo, was a direct nerf to large-scale groups, and that's fine.

As for farming pugs. Do you expect a group of 3-5 to wipe a whole zerg? Maybe with vicious death, but as it stands, small groups go to where small groups are valuable, which is choke points, in between sieged keeps and such. Not all those players small-groups take out can be considered pugs either. I would think it's better to discuss decently the impacts of this nerf without attacking playstyles. We all don't share in the appreciation of large-scale, just like some don't share in the appreciation of small-scale.

I would suggest that there are plenty of small man groups and solo players that enjoy large fights and go to them, and are not just fighting on the transit lines. You really should be trying to heal in those fights, under heavy counter siege, because otherwise your experience and perspective are highly skewed, and I'm not quite sure how it's appropriate to make blanket statements that a change is fine when you aren't even fighting in the same environment most players (not even talking about raids here) are. If you're healing in those situations and still think the changes are fine, that's your opinion and I'll respect it.

Most of my time I've spent on my Templar this patch has been me solo roaming at keep defenses, healing the pugs and helping where I can. I enjoy large fights as well, I just don't believe the entire game should cater specifically to them.

I could say the same about your opinion as well, since our playstyles are, as it seems, night and day, but I've chosen to respect your opinion. As you've noticed, I've held a respectful manner with you. I don't feel the breath of life nerf is overboard.

I do, however, feel that they should have accommodated Templars and given us something to help with our mobility given that snares are absolutely everywhere. I think that is where most Templars are hurting right now.

Like so many others, you assume I don't solo or small man. I spent maybe a 1/4 of my pvp time solo'ing last patch on my trollplar. Most of our pvp time before and after raid is small man stuff. Most of the testing we did on the first 2 days of the patch was solo and small man as well. My conclusions were reached after playing in all 3 styles of pvp, on different build tweaks. Qaevir implied you'd be able to keep up a group of 12 with honor the dead just fine, and while I don't mean it as an affront to your ability (particularly because I've seen you before and know you're a capable pvper), I certainly don't think such claims can nor should be made if it's being done in isolated scenarios that aren't even similar to what major pvp fights look like. Was that example he referenced even on the current patch?

For ~1/3 the night on Tuesday it was me and just one other healer for the entire raid (not to ignore the cross-heals from the dps in group), so yes, healers can keep groups up - to an extent, but acting like there's nothing wrong and it's just an L2P issue, which is what someone that doesn't even play a healer came in and did, doesn't really fly. I love how challenging it is in this patch, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to the flaws.

You are correct, my opinions may be skewed as I have yet to PvP on a Templar. But I do talk with my friends whom do play Templar before throwing around my thoughts.


I find it absurd that the OP of this thread is going to the extremes saying Templars are dead now.


And no, I disagree with Templars getting mobility. I also disagree with DKs getting mobility. These two classes need to defend their house, and ZOS needs to give them back the damn tools to do so, of which they once had...