ITT: Templars can't single-handedly heal a raid anymore, waahh wahh ZOS plz?


It was outrageous enough that a Templar could spam BoL and heal an entire raid(I've ran in 12 man groups where @PenguinInACan single-handedly healed all of us while not even in a 5pc light armor heal build, using Honor the Dead....) Now Templar healers are not a source of clutch heals for an entire zerg. A skillful group will consist of players that have some basic knowledge of self responsibility and won't be reliant on their healers like a newborn baby is reliant on their mother to feed and pamper them.

driosketch wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

No one is even running fasalla's guile yet, and the heal debuffs from the meatbag and DF spam are near-permanent during fights because of how expensive purge is.

Should be using purifying ritual and teaching people how and when to hit 'X' instead now anyways, what with purge being group only, useless versus siege debuffs, and setting I-Det off early.

It has a 30 second CD on the synergy (if I'm remembering correctly), and with the sheer volume of siege and debuffs in general, it's hardly an l2p issue of people not purging or hitting a synergy. With how many DF are flying around in cyrodiil now, that's the other major source and the frequency with which it's being applied far outpaces what you can purge. Templars can pop their purify over and over again, but then heals aren't going out to cover the massive damage numbers.

Go run the s'rendarr add-on, turn on all debuffs, and then it becomes pretty obvious how the purify synergy is just a drop in the bucket.

Is that actually true about the cd on the senergy? Because if so, I'm sorry but non templars are pretty much screwed. I can cleanse myself as fast as I can swap bars all day. In the meantime I'm hitting enemies with inevitable detonation, unstable core, and dark flare.

All synergies had a 30 cool down added in IC.

Joy_Division wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

In pvp I don't usually heal people, unless they are my friends and are in trouble ...

That's ... kinda mean IMHO.

Even on my Stamplar (that has played as a templar healer in the past) I heal others whether they're on my team or not. I also resuscitate people all of the time. I'm not happy about the nerf to our Resuscitation speed, as almost every single passive in the Templar toolkit has been undermined in overarching changes in the game rules. (Take blocking/block penetration for instance). I don't know if it is mean but you do realize you get AP for getting people off the ground, and as a Templar you're the best class to do it. There really is no reason not to, I've got soul gems coming out of my ears that I can't get rid of, and if I need more they're super easy to farm or buy/fill.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

No one is even running fasalla's guile yet, and the heal debuffs from the meatbag and DF spam are near-permanent during fights because of how expensive purge is.

Should be using purifying ritual and teaching people how and when to hit 'X' instead now anyways, what with purge being group only, useless versus siege debuffs, and setting I-Det off early.

It has a 30 second CD on the synergy (if I'm remembering correctly), and with the sheer volume of siege and debuffs in general, it's hardly an l2p issue of people not purging or hitting a synergy. With how many DF are flying around in cyrodiil now, that's the other major source and the frequency with which it's being applied far outpaces what you can purge. Templars can pop their purify over and over again, but then heals aren't going out to cover the massive damage numbers.

Go run the s'rendarr add-on, turn on all debuffs, and then it becomes pretty obvious how the purify synergy is just a drop in the bucket.

Is that actually true about the cd on the senergy? Because if so, I'm sorry but non templars are pretty much screwed. I can cleanse myself as fast as I can swap bars all day. In the meantime I'm hitting enemies with inevitable detonation, unstable core, and dark flare.

All synergies had a 30 cool down added in IC.

About the only thing I see spammed enough to test this is talons, so I was unaware of this. Point still stands, especially for the out of group non templars. Hey, it's better than nothing I guess.

Zheg wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

ITT: Templars can't single-handedly heal a raid anymore, waahh wahh ZOS plz?


It was outrageous enough that a Templar could spam BoL and heal an entire raid(I've ran in 12 man groups where @PenguinInACan single-handedly healed all of us while not even in a 5pc light armor heal build, using Honor the Dead....) Now Templar healers are not a source of clutch heals for an entire zerg. A skillful group will consist of players that have some basic knowledge of self responsibility and won't be reliant on their healers like a newborn baby is reliant on their mother to feed and pamper them.

Says the sorcerer who never has to worry about his hp actually dropping because he can spam shields all day long. "My healer can keep up 12 people with honor the dead, which heals one person, clearly everyone else needs to L2P - now let me streak away from the permaroot spam and pop some more shields so I never have to be healed".

lol


Bombard messes me up just as much as anyone, my streak is one-directional.


My health as a sorc drops plenty, just ask @DisgracefulMind who pocket-healed my sorry-butt the other day. I also play a neutered magic DK, I know very well what it's like to have a Templar saving my ass, thank you very much. You wouldn't know though. 90% of your play-time you have the protection of your raid. This has nothing to do with sorcs. My shields melt when I participate in large fights. Sorcs need healers just as much as a roll-dodger stam build or a DK, or even templars need other healers depending on the situation. But now, there is actually balance. BoL lost one target to heal, wow templars are really bad now, nerf magic DK healer builds. Hell, lets nerf sorc shields too cuz why not, even though it's not even part of this damn discussion.


Yes, Templars have been gutted. You must all reroll FOTM DK healer build now cuz 4k healing spring ticks. The end is nigh. Waaaahhh wahhhh.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

ITT: Templars can't single-handedly heal a raid anymore, waahh wahh ZOS plz?


It was outrageous enough that a Templar could spam BoL and heal an entire raid(I've ran in 12 man groups where @PenguinInACan single-handedly healed all of us while not even in a 5pc light armor heal build, using Honor the Dead....) Now Templar healers are not a source of clutch heals for an entire zerg. A skillful group will consist of players that have some basic knowledge of self responsibility and won't be reliant on their healers like a newborn baby is reliant on their mother to feed and pamper them.

Says the sorcerer who never has to worry about his hp actually dropping because he can spam shields all day long. "My healer can keep up 12 people with honor the dead, which heals one person, clearly everyone else needs to L2P - now let me streak away from the permaroot spam and pop some more shields so I never have to be healed".

lol


Bombard messes me up just as much as anyone, my streak is one-directional.


My health as a sorc drops plenty, just ask @DisgracefulMind who pocket-healed my sorry-butt the other day. I also play a neutered magic DK, I know very well what it's like to have a Templar saving my ass, thank you very much. You wouldn't know though. 90% of your play-time you have the protection of your raid. This has nothing to do with sorcs. My shields melt when I participate in large fights. Sorcs need healers just as much as a roll-dodger stam build or a DK, or even templars need other healers depending on the situation. But now, there is actually balance. BoL lost one target to heal, wow templars are really bad now, nerf magic DK healer builds. Hell, lets nerf sorc shields too cuz why not, even though it's not even part of this damn discussion.


Yes, Templars have been gutted. You must all reroll FOTM DK healer build now cuz 4k healing spring ticks. The end is nigh. Waaaahhh wahhhh.

I've had to become a nomad and move my house consistently to heal QAM
Sorcs take so much damage, and their shields do NOT always save them. Honestly, I find myself spamming BoL on a sorc more than any other class. Not sure what relevance sorc shields have in this discussion, though

But, no, seriously, BoL nerf is fine. I've had no problems so far in small groups. It's a good change, I didn't like it at first because I was worried for small scale Templar, but it's completely fine.

Zheg wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

ITT: Templars can't single-handedly heal a raid anymore, waahh wahh ZOS plz?


It was outrageous enough that a Templar could spam BoL and heal an entire raid(I've ran in 12 man groups where @PenguinInACan single-handedly healed all of us while not even in a 5pc light armor heal build, using Honor the Dead....) Now Templar healers are not a source of clutch heals for an entire zerg. A skillful group will consist of players that have some basic knowledge of self responsibility and won't be reliant on their healers like a newborn baby is reliant on their mother to feed and pamper them.

Says the sorcerer who never has to worry about his hp actually dropping because he can spam shields all day long. "My healer can keep up 12 people with honor the dead, which heals one person, clearly everyone else needs to L2P - now let me streak away from the permaroot spam and pop some more shields so I never have to be healed".

lol


Bombard messes me up just as much as anyone, my streak is one-directional.


My health as a sorc drops plenty, just ask @DisgracefulMind who pocket-healed my sorry-butt the other day. I also play a neutered magic DK, I know very well what it's like to have a Templar saving my ass, thank you very much. You wouldn't know though. 90% of your play-time you have the protection of your raid. This has nothing to do with sorcs. My shields melt when I participate in large fights. Sorcs need healers just as much as a roll-dodger stam build or a DK, or even templars need other healers depending on the situation. But now, there is actually balance. BoL lost one target to heal, wow templars are really bad now, nerf magic DK healer builds. Hell, lets nerf sorc shields too cuz why not, even though it's not even part of this damn discussion.


Yes, Templars have been gutted. You must all reroll FOTM DK healer build now cuz 4k healing spring ticks. The end is nigh. Waaaahhh wahhhh.

"Bombard messes me up just as much as anyone, I mean, I can still streak in one direction, which is more than every other class has for mobility, but it's not perfect, so that negates all benefit. Also, I can use my class-specific mitigation and survival tool by popping shields and not have to worry about losing rapids, but again, it affects me just as much as the templar that is healing themself as their class-specific survival tool and losing rapids". I fixed it for you.

A Stam build can just shuffle.... or dodge and run away at 30mph. I can streak 5 times, then burn my entire magic pool.


Every single class and build has access to dmg mitigation, prevention, and general survivability. They come in all shapes and sizes. I have high expectations for VE. I remember them when they were a talented and well-respected small-scale group waaaay back in the day. I have to assume at least some of you know how to be self-sufficient instead of being dependent on templars spamming heals.


And you are complaining about heal debuffs being a thing. Good. Now you need to "watch your step" instead of just steam-rolling everything in your path.

Zheg wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

ITT: Templars can't single-handedly heal a raid anymore, waahh wahh ZOS plz?


It was outrageous enough that a Templar could spam BoL and heal an entire raid(I've ran in 12 man groups where @PenguinInACan single-handedly healed all of us while not even in a 5pc light armor heal build, using Honor the Dead....) Now Templar healers are not a source of clutch heals for an entire zerg. A skillful group will consist of players that have some basic knowledge of self responsibility and won't be reliant on their healers like a newborn baby is reliant on their mother to feed and pamper them.

Says the sorcerer who never has to worry about his hp actually dropping because he can spam shields all day long. "My healer can keep up 12 people with honor the dead, which heals one person, clearly everyone else needs to L2P - now let me streak away from the permaroot spam and pop some more shields so I never have to be healed".

lol


Bombard messes me up just as much as anyone, my streak is one-directional.


My health as a sorc drops plenty, just ask @DisgracefulMind who pocket-healed my sorry-butt the other day. I also play a neutered magic DK, I know very well what it's like to have a Templar saving my ass, thank you very much. You wouldn't know though. 90% of your play-time you have the protection of your raid. This has nothing to do with sorcs. My shields melt when I participate in large fights. Sorcs need healers just as much as a roll-dodger stam build or a DK, or even templars need other healers depending on the situation. But now, there is actually balance. BoL lost one target to heal, wow templars are really bad now, nerf magic DK healer builds. Hell, lets nerf sorc shields too cuz why not, even though it's not even part of this damn discussion.


Yes, Templars have been gutted. You must all reroll FOTM DK healer build now cuz 4k healing spring ticks. The end is nigh. Waaaahhh wahhhh.

I've had to become a nomad and move my house consistently to heal QAM
Sorcs take so much damage, and their shields do NOT always save them. Honestly, I find myself spamming BoL on a sorc more than any other class. Not sure what relevance sorc shields have in this discussion, though

But, no, seriously, BoL nerf is fine. I've had no problems so far in small groups. It's a good change, I didn't like it at first because I was worried for small scale Templar, but it's completely fine.

Shields entered the conversation because if you have more people with strong shields in a group (whether small man or a raid), and that pretty much equates to having sorcs in group, you don't need your healer to be pumping out anywhere near as much in heals as you would if the group were made up of other classes. No one said sorcs never die, but having a sorc that spends most of his time farming pugs away from major fights in a sorc heavy group come in and say that healing is just fine, you all need to L2P because my group doesn't need them is /eyeroll worthy.

We spent about 2+ hours at arrius mine under heavy siege and constantly fighting reds; the next time Qaevir takes his small man to a situation like that and his healer keeps 12 people alive with honor the dead, in this meta, then his input might be worthwhile. Until then, it just sounds like someone who has zero experience healing, particularly in the current meta, is trying to inject himself into a conversation without actually doing any homework.

I believe QAM was referencing the power of Templar heals in the last patch, as a way to defend them needing to be brought down a notch. Nor was he saying his group doesn't need them. I'd say, for the PvP that I share an interest in which is small-scale, a Templar healer is absolutely necessary and valuable, and I'm sure he'd agree.

The BoL nerf is fine. I'm nervously waiting to see how Fasalla's Guile is going to affect me, but other than that there is no issue. The nerf, imo, was a direct nerf to large-scale groups, and that's fine.

As for farming pugs. Do you expect a group of 3-5 to wipe a whole zerg? Maybe with vicious death, but as it stands, small groups go to where small groups are valuable, which is choke points, in between sieged keeps and such. Not all those players small-groups take out can be considered pugs either. I would think it's better to discuss decently the impacts of this nerf without attacking playstyles. We all don't share in the appreciation of large-scale, just like some don't share in the appreciation of small-scale.

Zheg wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

No, tbh Bol was op as f last patch.
Every templar could heal tank any dungeon.
In PVP all you needed was 2-3 templars spamming Bol, healing springs, remembrance and they were set.
It was *** and out of hand.

In short, Templar heals are still good. Anyone saying otherwise i think have l2p issues.

If you had templars spamming remembrance, that is the L2P issue friend. It's not just the BoL nerf to 2, there are other factors involved:

• major defile is prolific now with how many are using meatbags and DF, and how expensive it is to remove said debuffs given how easy it is to reapply them
• damage numbers across the board are up, so you need to be healing more
• hp pools remained static while burst went up, this means you need to be able to hit more people with heals at once, rather than have high single target heals
• barrier isn't efficient any more, in cost or utility, and that used to be a sponge that allowed heals to spread out to the targets that needed them. Now 'everyone' needs them all at the same time.
• resources are stressed because of all of the above, plus oil catapults and lightning ballista hitting your stam and magicka pools. Channeled focused was nerfed as well.
• templars need to invest heavily into workarounds for the snare/root meta, which means they can't invest as heavily into magicka resources and recovery and as such heals are weaker
• fasalla's guile isn't being worn yet, but in general, heals will be 50% weaker across the board during fights (how people can so cavalierly dismiss these issues and not have the foresight of what further heal debuffs will have on top of all the other issues is beyond me)

A more appropriate change to BoL would be to reduce the healing values but still allow you to heal the group, or to make ritual a viable means to heal the group. I could even have partially settled for blessing of resto being the new go-to, but the animation roots you in place for half a second if you don't jump while casting, and the entire goal of the meta was to 'spread people out' during fights, so I hardly see how a heal that requires people to be standing in a 20x10m rectangle ends up promoting 'spreading out'. No, what it does is promote shield stacking so that you need minimal (or no) heals. With all of that said, anyone trying to reduce the argument down to just L2P is trolling or intentionally burying their head in the sand. I said it before, part of me enjoys how difficult healing is now, but at the same time I also have the foresight to realize there are issues that need to be addressed that will still allow for healing to remain difficult when they're fixed.

You know, there was a time you could chain cast Prayer. I was able to chain cast it up to 3 times and let me tell you... it was stupid op.

• Major defile may be prolofic due to siege and darkflare (a single target spell i guess) but so has Major Mending. Templars can cast purify, rune focus, or remembrance and they now get major mending.
• I agree. Damage numbers have increased but so has defensive abilities. Templars have many heals. DKs, have Magma Armor, Cauterize, Igenous Shields (Major Mending) and Standards. Sorcs have pets that heal for 20% of their max Magicka (40k magicka = 8k heals=4k in pvp) and im sure Sorcs still carry resto sticks for healing wards. Nightblades have Soul Siphon, Path of Drkness, Strife. Those are just things i can think of off the top of my head and I'm sure im missing many more.
• HP pools didnt remain static. Its just that ppl still have 64 into magicka/stamina when they should probably go with 9 into HP and run healthy traits. I have 20khp on the stam sorc and 30khp on the magplar and i'm doing just fine. Still need to wait and see how VD affects that but i dont think itll be a dramatic change.
• Barriers were crutches for any ball groups tbh. Pop a barrier, everyones back up to 100% resource. Pop a rapid, and theyre gone. Yeah, not OP at all. Barrier change, best thing ever.
• The siege changes were absolutely necessary. How else are players supposed to take down a 24man zerg rotating infinite barriers/purges/rapids before?? People are still not properly geared for this new warfare its too soon to be calling out that. If resource management is a problem, defintely a l2p issue. I'm doing fine with 2k regen.
• Templars still have ZERO major expedition buffs. I agree with you on that. However, with my templar, i have enough magicka and regen to spam purify. The only times ive ever had problems with healing myself with the templar is when my heals hit somebody else other than me -_-.
• Fasallas Guile is one set thing I'm worried about but I'm actually going to be using that on my magplar blaze build. I forgot to test if this set's debuff can be cleansed. If it is purgeable, it wont be that much of a problem.

I think they should leave BoL as it but they really need to reduce the cast time for Ritual. Even with the morph of 1.3s cast time, the thing still takes a looooooong time to charge only to give out 50% of the heals due to battle spirit. They shouldve reduced the cast time even more to the point were the reduce cost morph makes it a 1s cast time. They also need to increase the radius of ritual.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

ITT: Templars can't single-handedly heal a raid anymore, waahh wahh ZOS plz?


It was outrageous enough that a Templar could spam BoL and heal an entire raid(I've ran in 12 man groups where @PenguinInACan single-handedly healed all of us while not even in a 5pc light armor heal build, using Honor the Dead....) Now Templar healers are not a source of clutch heals for an entire zerg. A skillful group will consist of players that have some basic knowledge of self responsibility and won't be reliant on their healers like a newborn baby is reliant on their mother to feed and pamper them.

Says the sorcerer who never has to worry about his hp actually dropping because he can spam shields all day long. "My healer can keep up 12 people with honor the dead, which heals one person, clearly everyone else needs to L2P - now let me streak away from the permaroot spam and pop some more shields so I never have to be healed".

lol


Bombard messes me up just as much as anyone, my streak is one-directional.


My health as a sorc drops plenty, just ask @DisgracefulMind who pocket-healed my sorry-butt the other day. I also play a neutered magic DK, I know very well what it's like to have a Templar saving my ass, thank you very much. You wouldn't know though. 90% of your play-time you have the protection of your raid. This has nothing to do with sorcs. My shields melt when I participate in large fights. Sorcs need healers just as much as a roll-dodger stam build or a DK, or even templars need other healers depending on the situation. But now, there is actually balance. BoL lost one target to heal, wow templars are really bad now, nerf magic DK healer builds. Hell, lets nerf sorc shields too cuz why not, even though it's not even part of this damn discussion.


Yes, Templars have been gutted. You must all reroll FOTM DK healer build now cuz 4k healing spring ticks. The end is nigh. Waaaahhh wahhhh.

"Bombard messes me up just as much as anyone, I mean, I can still streak in one direction, which is more than every other class has for mobility, but it's not perfect, so that negates all benefit. Also, I can use my class-specific mitigation and survival tool by popping shields and not have to worry about losing rapids, but again, it affects me just as much as the templar that is healing themself as their class-specific survival tool and losing rapids". I fixed it for you.

A Stam build can just shuffle.... or dodge and run away at 30mph. I can streak 5 times, then burn my entire magic pool.


Every single class and build has access to dmg mitigation, prevention, and general survivability. They come in all shapes and sizes. I have high expectations for VE. I remember them when they were a talented and well-respected small-scale group waaaay back in the day. I have to assume at least some of you know how to be self-sufficient instead of being dependent on templars spamming heals.


And you are complaining about heal debuffs being a thing. Good. Now you need to "watch your step" instead of just steam-rolling everything in your path.

I appreciate the high expectations, I think it's mostly a matter of seeing available content reduced. The dynamics of having a large group means that in meaningful fights self sustain essential but not paramount, one cannot self sustain through 40 people throwing themselves at you while getting pounded with siege.

Specifically RE Templars I understand the frustration. They were already, as healers, a class with extremely low mobility. FACT. This patch removed what little mobility they had, broke thier best group heal, then broke thier best damage mitigation in purify.

In a group setting, standing still is death. So you must move. Not healing is death because you are purposely in a challenging situation with LOTS of inc damage. Templars must now choose between moving, letting those around them die, or self sustaining and falling behind and subsequently dying themselves. A healing Templar is not a glamorous role but an essential one, so I understand the pain of getting absolutely ruined like they were with this patch.

I will have to 100% agree with the mobility thing. It's been extremely painful with no mobility, that I was forced back into vampire. Now THAT is a problem with Templar. Maybe we don't WANT to stand in a burning house. But the heals are still fine. All the snares now are extremely frustrating, however.

Mhm.

The heal portion is a large group issue. Templar was effectively moved from a group healer to a small group healer. Everyone remembers the CP change right? Where we all lost a huge amount of effectiveness and had to earn it back? It was frustrating as hell. Templars in groups basically just had this happen again, but instead of being able to earn it back it looks like it will get worse with new sets releasing.

Again, a healer was not a glamor role and I treasure the people who have been willing to learn and excel in the position. I feel really bad for the Templars on my team, they just got gutted and it will only get worse. It would s beyond frustrating to be unable to perform as you used to, as most DKs can tell you it sucks to the point of rerolling.

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

No, tbh Bol was op as f last patch.
Every templar could heal tank any dungeon.
In PVP all you needed was 2-3 templars spamming Bol, healing springs, remembrance and they were set.
It was *** and out of hand.

and? 2-3 dedicated heal sorcs with healingward, healingsprings and major sorcery+15%more maxmagica and you are set...

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

In short, Templar heals are still good. Anyone saying otherwise i think have l2p issues.

no one denys that i think, the problem is the lack of a role the templar excells in. they are toned down to be a healer like anyone else (if properly equiped sorcs are better now), dks and nb´s are better tanks, nearly every body is a better DD but some wierd flavour specs. and the utility a temp provides is limited to one templer per group/raid/warband (aka repentence/shards-***)...

and BoL doesn´t heal to much the problem is the smart healing wich takes any skill requirement from the healer if the game would have any stick or follow function their would be no actively played healer anymore only "automated" bots or multiboxed ones as being a healer in this game is as entertaining as watching paint dry...
you do not have to scan the battelfield to recognize ongoing target switches by the opponents assist train and start pre healing their next target before they have arrived, jo do not need any movement, you have not to decide whom you cleanse from desease, dots, nearsight or other debuffs individually - everything in regards of healing is oriented to satisfy DAU s.

and by doing so 2-3 healers of any class are sufficient using your words "to be set".

Joy_Division wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

In pvp I don't usually heal people, unless they are my friends and are in trouble ...

That's ... kinda mean IMHO.

Well, I'm not actually a healer, even in pve most of the time any more. Surely its up to people to ensure that they can heal themselves, no? I don't expect anyone else to heal me, after all...

BRING BACK BLINDING FLASHES

Zheg wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

ITT: Templars can't single-handedly heal a raid anymore, waahh wahh ZOS plz?


It was outrageous enough that a Templar could spam BoL and heal an entire raid(I've ran in 12 man groups where @PenguinInACan single-handedly healed all of us while not even in a 5pc light armor heal build, using Honor the Dead....) Now Templar healers are not a source of clutch heals for an entire zerg. A skillful group will consist of players that have some basic knowledge of self responsibility and won't be reliant on their healers like a newborn baby is reliant on their mother to feed and pamper them.

Says the sorcerer who never has to worry about his hp actually dropping because he can spam shields all day long. "My healer can keep up 12 people with honor the dead, which heals one person, clearly everyone else needs to L2P - now let me streak away from the permaroot spam and pop some more shields so I never have to be healed".

lol


Bombard messes me up just as much as anyone, my streak is one-directional.


My health as a sorc drops plenty, just ask @DisgracefulMind who pocket-healed my sorry-butt the other day. I also play a neutered magic DK, I know very well what it's like to have a Templar saving my ass, thank you very much. You wouldn't know though. 90% of your play-time you have the protection of your raid. This has nothing to do with sorcs. My shields melt when I participate in large fights. Sorcs need healers just as much as a roll-dodger stam build or a DK, or even templars need other healers depending on the situation. But now, there is actually balance. BoL lost one target to heal, wow templars are really bad now, nerf magic DK healer builds. Hell, lets nerf sorc shields too cuz why not, even though it's not even part of this damn discussion.


Yes, Templars have been gutted. You must all reroll FOTM DK healer build now cuz 4k healing spring ticks. The end is nigh. Waaaahhh wahhhh.

I've had to become a nomad and move my house consistently to heal QAM
Sorcs take so much damage, and their shields do NOT always save them. Honestly, I find myself spamming BoL on a sorc more than any other class. Not sure what relevance sorc shields have in this discussion, though

But, no, seriously, BoL nerf is fine. I've had no problems so far in small groups. It's a good change, I didn't like it at first because I was worried for small scale Templar, but it's completely fine.

Shields entered the conversation because if you have more people with strong shields in a group (whether small man or a raid), and that pretty much equates to having sorcs in group, you don't need your healer to be pumping out anywhere near as much in heals as you would if the group were made up of other classes. No one said sorcs never die, but having a sorc that spends most of his time farming pugs away from major fights in a sorc heavy group come in and say that healing is just fine, you all need to L2P because my group doesn't need them is /eyeroll worthy.

We spent about 2+ hours at arrius mine under heavy siege and constantly fighting reds; the next time Qaevir takes his small man to a situation like that and his healer keeps 12 people alive with honor the dead, in this meta, then his input might be worthwhile. Until then, it just sounds like someone who has zero experience healing, particularly in the current meta, is trying to inject himself into a conversation without actually doing any homework.

I believe QAM was referencing the power of Templar heals in the last patch, as a way to defend them needing to be brought down a notch. Nor was he saying his group doesn't need them. I'd say, for the PvP that I share an interest in which is small-scale, a Templar healer is absolutely necessary and valuable, and I'm sure he'd agree.

The BoL nerf is fine. I'm nervously waiting to see how Fasalla's Guile is going to affect me, but other than that there is no issue. The nerf, imo, was a direct nerf to large-scale groups, and that's fine.

As for farming pugs. Do you expect a group of 3-5 to wipe a whole zerg? Maybe with vicious death, but as it stands, small groups go to where small groups are valuable, which is choke points, in between sieged keeps and such. Not all those players small-groups take out can be considered pugs either. I would think it's better to discuss decently the impacts of this nerf without attacking playstyles. We all don't share in the appreciation of large-scale, just like some don't share in the appreciation of small-scale.

I would suggest that there are plenty of small man groups and solo players that enjoy large fights and go to them, and are not just fighting on the transit lines. You really should be trying to heal in those fights, under heavy counter siege, because otherwise your experience and perspective are highly skewed, and I'm not quite sure how it's appropriate to make blanket statements that a change is fine when you aren't even fighting in the same environment most players (not even talking about raids here) are. If you're healing in those situations and still think the changes are fine, that's your opinion and I'll respect it.

Most of my time I've spent on my Templar this patch has been me solo roaming at keep defenses, healing the pugs and helping where I can. I enjoy large fights as well, I just don't believe the entire game should cater specifically to them.

I could say the same about your opinion as well, since our playstyles are, as it seems, night and day, but I've chosen to respect your opinion. As you've noticed, I've held a respectful manner with you. I don't feel the breath of life nerf is overboard.

I do, however, feel that they should have accommodated Templars and given us something to help with our mobility given that snares are absolutely everywhere. I think that is where most Templars are hurting right now.