Roll dodge. Bring it back to 1.6?

Samadhi · March 2016

Other.

Frawr wrote: »

the problem is the regen due to lack of soft caps.

The resource management used to be the limiting factor in this game (instead of cool downs). That has been thrown out of the window with the removal of soft caps.

ZOS should put in skills and usable poisons that drain a target's Stamina or Magicka, rather than health, like was available in previous Elder Scrolls titles.

Stop punishing players for using their own skills (which, in turn, keeps such nerfs from harming the PvE crowd) by making better interactions between player skill usage.

Magelight temporarily locking Cloak was a step in the right direction, as it promotes interactions while still maintaining skill utility. Would like to see more PvP balance issues handled via counters rather than nerfs.

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Joy_Division wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@ToRelax

"Horribly biased. Doesnt have a clue about different build's."

Would you like to enlighten me?

Permarolling is an issue. However the current implentation to prevent this has ruined the mechanic all together. People will heal through damage instead of rolling.

This is just a discussion to see what people think about the mechanic and if it needs a tweak.

Your OP actually asked "Should stamina builds be given roll dodge back?" Where did it go? How was it taken away?

The mechanic is not ruined. You dodge. You avoid every instantaneous single-target ability in the game.

What is ruined is that you can't perma dodge roll from Sejanus to Alessia. Sorry, don't ever want to go back to such idiocy.

I agree rolling that far should not be possible.. but i do think the current penalty is aweful.

This discussion may spark good ideas/compromises to the current penalty though.

cdobratz · March 2016

Leave it.

People should run out of resources when playing defensively. No skill was needed to hit the dodge key several times in a row and have no penalty. Also could you imagine all of the eternal hunt stam dk builds out there?

avelopolcakb14a_ESO · March 2016

Remove the penalty. Remove the damage reduction. Make roll dodge only reduce damage if you actually moved out of the target area of an aoe. If you roll dodge right into another attack well, that's your fsult.

Invincibility frames are a crutch for bad players

NewBlacksmurf · March 2016

So when you see in your poll a ZOS vote for leave it....
Yeah that AND we all know that rolling and dodging use stamina so it's pretty reduculous to ask otherwise.

Maybe you can suggest a different pool other than stamina but that goes again TES so....

Leave It

ToRelax · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@ToRelax

"Horribly biased. Doesnt have a clue about different build's."

Would you like to enlighten me?

Permarolling is an issue. However the current implentation to prevent this has ruined the mechanic all together. People will heal through damage instead of rolling.

This is just a discussion to see what people think about the mechanic and if it needs a tweak.

Okay, since you are asking. I don't care... you could at least learn2quote though.
Part of it I already mentioned: You are playing down the potential problems. Stating roll dodging wouldn't hurt anyone, shifting the focus on burst damage instead and mentioning other Wrecking Blow and shield spamming as comparable mechanics. Tbh, the very same root problems break these mechanics that made perma rolling possible.

Further this wonderful post to make appearant what it is you pretend to want or think. And to address the point made, while magicka healing is, in fact, more reliably because it doesn't rely on HoTs and a burst heal every 10-20 seconds, it's the exact opposite for damage.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Bring back fkin roll dodge with no cost. Magicka classes can heal without a care in the world.

Stamina either has to roll or block to heal since we only have vigor and rally. these are not enough in most situations.

give stamina back roll dodge. no stam regen isnt that bad but roll dodge is stupid. this is not bolt escape.

It's hard to quote on mobile. If you understood the comment then no harm done.

Glad to see you saw my bad side with the 2nd quote. Im not perfect by any means. I get angry

I believe roll dodge should be tweaked for sure. This is just a fun discussion anyway.

That thread where you found that comment is what sparked me to make this discussion.

Positive surprise then. As I said then, although just removing the stacking cost wouldn't be a good idea, it's still a bad mechanic that helps larger groups and harms both players who build to dodge roll a lot and those who don't alike.

Ghost-Shot · March 2016

Leave it.

It would be fine if abilities like whip could still hit through dodge roll but as it is now roller blades would be unkillable.

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

I added a little somthing to the first post so we can widen the di

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

It would be fine if abilities like whip could still hit through dodge roll but as it is now roller blades would be unkillable.

possible. the cloak changes and dot changes would help.

regen is an issue across the board soooo

GrimMauKin · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

I've never really got the complaints from PvPers that don't like people regularly roll dodging (or cloaking) and won't just stand there whilst they spam their favourite big hitter at them; not dying is the most important rule of battle. Mobility and evasion are a key part of combat and I've always wanted to play a agile character. Whilst you're rolling you're not causing damage and that seems a fair trade off.

If you can't hit someone you either need to let them get away or force them to fight; it's a skill in itself and one that TESO players may not develop as in main story PvE we don't see it a lot (if MOBS rolled or cloaked more often people would be more familiar with the tactics and better equipped when moving into PvP). AOE skills should do the trick and I've often wondered whether some AOE skills ought to do more damage if someone rolls through them (Caltrops would be a good example of something you'd do a shed load of damage to yourself rolling through); it might make roll/dodgers a bit more hesitant.

For me the real problem is perma-blocking whilst attacking at the same time; but perhaps that's for another thread.

Joy_Division · March 2016

Leave it.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@ToRelax

"Horribly biased. Doesnt have a clue about different build's."

Would you like to enlighten me?

Permarolling is an issue. However the current implentation to prevent this has ruined the mechanic all together. People will heal through damage instead of rolling.

This is just a discussion to see what people think about the mechanic and if it needs a tweak.

Your OP actually asked "Should stamina builds be given roll dodge back?" Where did it go? How was it taken away?

The mechanic is not ruined. You dodge. You avoid every instantaneous single-target ability in the game.

What is ruined is that you can't perma dodge roll from Sejanus to Alessia. Sorry, don't ever want to go back to such idiocy.

I agree rolling that far should not be possible.. but i do think the current penalty is aweful.

This discussion may spark good ideas/compromises to the current penalty though.

The good idea is to go back to pre 1.6 when it was sort of possible to open world without being a FOTM build that combines far too much damage avoidance with far too high damage dealing potential and find a more elegant and intelligent solution to motivate players to not hold block, rather than punitively punish them for doing so.

As other posters have pointed out, the problems are embedded in the current system we play under and affect other things aside from dodging.

Ghost-Shot · March 2016

Leave it.

Joy_Division wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@ToRelax

"Horribly biased. Doesnt have a clue about different build's."

Would you like to enlighten me?

Permarolling is an issue. However the current implentation to prevent this has ruined the mechanic all together. People will heal through damage instead of rolling.

This is just a discussion to see what people think about the mechanic and if it needs a tweak.

Your OP actually asked "Should stamina builds be given roll dodge back?" Where did it go? How was it taken away?

The mechanic is not ruined. You dodge. You avoid every instantaneous single-target ability in the game.

What is ruined is that you can't perma dodge roll from Sejanus to Alessia. Sorry, don't ever want to go back to such idiocy.

I agree rolling that far should not be possible.. but i do think the current penalty is aweful.

This discussion may spark good ideas/compromises to the current penalty though.

The good idea is to go back to pre 1.6 when it was sort of possible to open world without being a FOTM build that combines far too much damage avoidance with far too high damage dealing potential and find a more elegant and intelligent solution to motivate players to not hold block, rather than punitively punish them for doing so.

As other posters have pointed out, the problems are embedded in the current system we play under and affect other things aside from dodging.

Its almost like 1.5 was a better game...

Elsonso · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Your OP actually asked "Should stamina builds be given roll dodge back?" Where did it go? How was it taken away?

The mechanic is not ruined. You dodge. You avoid every instantaneous single-target ability in the game.

What is ruined is that you can't perma dodge roll from Sejanus to Alessia. Sorry, don't ever want to go back to such idiocy.

While I don't want to go back to that insanity, I also don't want to be penalized for normal use.

As a general rule, I basically don't dodge roll anymore, except by accident. (On the PS4, I don't even remember the combination to do it) I don't want to incur the stamina penalty and run out of stamina later. To compensate, I try to just stay out of the way rather than need to do a dodge roll, which means that I do get in the way often. If they removed dodge roll from the game completely, it would probably take me a while to notice.

My perception is this: given the "pain in the feet" effect that appears when I do it, I get one, and only one, dodge roll, and then I am in real trouble. If I avoid dodge rolling, I avoid an impending stamina deficit problem.

Nafirian · March 2016

Leave it.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Nafirian wrote: »

You kidding right roll roll roll roll roll roll roll yea nooooooo.

But hold block permanently (before the nerf that is) and shieldspam all day is okay?

FU naf xD

Topic: Maybe not completly remove it but reduce it a bit, and change the 0 stam regen while blocking to like 35-50% regen nerf when blocking?

Then people can roll, shield, heal, block all day everyday ! Everyone wins.

Good point kas *** does need balancing id i could hold block all day id be happy with letting roller blades back in action but hey thats just me

ToRelax · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Nafirian wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Nafirian wrote: »

You kidding right roll roll roll roll roll roll roll yea nooooooo.

But hold block permanently (before the nerf that is) and shieldspam all day is okay?

FU naf xD

Topic: Maybe not completly remove it but reduce it a bit, and change the 0 stam regen while blocking to like 35-50% regen nerf when blocking?

Then people can roll, shield, heal, block all day everyday ! Everyone wins.

Good point kas *** does need balancing id i could hold block all day id be happy with letting roller blades back in action but hey thats just me

No. That's not just you.

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@ToRelax

"Horribly biased. Doesnt have a clue about different build's."

Would you like to enlighten me?

Permarolling is an issue. However the current implentation to prevent this has ruined the mechanic all together. People will heal through damage instead of rolling.

This is just a discussion to see what people think about the mechanic and if it needs a tweak.

Your OP actually asked "Should stamina builds be given roll dodge back?" Where did it go? How was it taken away?

The mechanic is not ruined. You dodge. You avoid every instantaneous single-target ability in the game.

What is ruined is that you can't perma dodge roll from Sejanus to Alessia. Sorry, don't ever want to go back to such idiocy.

I agree rolling that far should not be possible.. but i do think the current penalty is aweful.

This discussion may spark good ideas/compromises to the current penalty though.

The good idea is to go back to pre 1.6 when it was sort of possible to open world without being a FOTM build that combines far too much damage avoidance with far too high damage dealing potential and find a more elegant and intelligent solution to motivate players to not hold block, rather than punitively punish them for doing so.

As other posters have pointed out, the problems are embedded in the current system we play under and affect other things aside from dodging.

Its almost like 1.5 was a better game...

I started in 1.6 (console pleb). I wish i got to experienced all the sass back before 1.6.

Burning_Talons · March 2016

Leave it.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Nafirian wrote: »

You kidding right roll roll roll roll roll roll roll yea nooooooo.

But hold block permanently (before the nerf that is) and shieldspam all day is okay?

FU naf xD

Topic: Maybe not completly remove it but reduce it a bit, and change the 0 stam regen while blocking to like 35-50% regen nerf when blocking?

Then people can roll, shield, heal, block all day everyday ! Everyone wins.

Those to didnt let you mitigate all damage and cc while escaping

Muizer · March 2016

Hmm, any documentation on this penalty? Can't find it in the patch notes.

RoamingRiverElk · March 2016

Other.

GrimMauKin wrote: »

I've never really got the complaints from PvPers that don't like people regularly roll dodging (or cloaking) and won't just stand there whilst they spam their favourite big hitter at them; not dying is the most important rule of battle. Mobility and evasion are a key part of combat and I've always wanted to play a agile character. Whilst you're rolling you're not causing damage and that seems a fair trade off.

???
You do know how one animation cancels skills with a dodge roll? You absolutely can attack at the same time, just can't use skills with a cast time like that.

For me the real problem is perma-blocking whilst attacking at the same time; but perhaps that's for another thread.

Permablocking is a much weaker defensive action due to it draining stamina based on the number of attacks you're blocking, instead of just using a standard amount of stamina to basically dodge every attack coming your way for a certain amount of time. Permablocking builds were nerfed to the point of extinction, I don't get how anyone could be complaining about that at this point. Some builds can basically still permablock in 1 v 1s, but imo the game shouldn't be balanced for 1 v 1s at the cost of making other gameplay more about which side has more numbers.

As to the original question, I would revert the nerf for the no cp campaign along with the nerfs to blocking and streak.

Basically we need softcaps, then revert the nerfs that have been applied since 1.6. Actually, I would already revert the blocking nerf even if the meta wasn't changed in any other way now. Say, 50% stamina regen when not wearing 5 heavy armor, and 100% stamina regen when wearing 5 heavy.

leepalmer95 · March 2016

Leave it.

and have Perma rollers again, nah, that perm rolling was more cheesy than wb.

Kammakazi · March 2016

Leave it.

So you basically want already-strong Stamina characters stronger?

Ghost-Shot · March 2016

Leave it.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@ToRelax

"Horribly biased. Doesnt have a clue about different build's."

Would you like to enlighten me?

Permarolling is an issue. However the current implentation to prevent this has ruined the mechanic all together. People will heal through damage instead of rolling.

This is just a discussion to see what people think about the mechanic and if it needs a tweak.

Your OP actually asked "Should stamina builds be given roll dodge back?" Where did it go? How was it taken away?

The mechanic is not ruined. You dodge. You avoid every instantaneous single-target ability in the game.

What is ruined is that you can't perma dodge roll from Sejanus to Alessia. Sorry, don't ever want to go back to such idiocy.

I agree rolling that far should not be possible.. but i do think the current penalty is aweful.

This discussion may spark good ideas/compromises to the current penalty though.

The good idea is to go back to pre 1.6 when it was sort of possible to open world without being a FOTM build that combines far too much damage avoidance with far too high damage dealing potential and find a more elegant and intelligent solution to motivate players to not hold block, rather than punitively punish them for doing so.

As other posters have pointed out, the problems are embedded in the current system we play under and affect other things aside from dodging.

Its almost like 1.5 was a better game...

I started in 1.6 (console pleb). I wish i got to experienced all the sass back before 1.6.

It really is a shame you guys didn't get to experience the game back then, magicka DK's, blazing shield templars, sap tanks, negates that could make or break fights. It was so much fun back then and as much as everyone likes to focus on how OP the DK was every class had unique roles they could fill that were strong and sought after by all groups.