Roll dodge. Bring it back to 1.6?

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

Stamina builds took a huge hit. Magicka builds now have a physical damage cp tree.

Should stamina builds be given roll dodge back?

The roll dodge penalty hurts everyone. It also hurts mobility.

It was a damage issue back in the day imo. Roll dodge spammers is as much as a L2P issue as wrecking blow or shield spamming.

Discuss.

The thread got attention!! Thats good. I know this topic can be very biased and even possibly cheese. I'd like to see if anyone has any good ideas when thinking about changing the current roll dodge mechanic. The penalty does not need to be comepletly removed. It holds a purpose to stop "permarolling". For me the problem is i cannot roll once every 3 seconds without draining all of my stamina. This is somthing i'd love to see change.

I want to see dodge roll used more actively. Roll dodge is currently being avoided since its easier to just heal through damage.

For me the perfect solution would be to change roll dodge to this: 15%+ cost per dodge, debuff lasts 10(x) seconds. The debuff however is static and cannot refresh till after its expires.

What does this do?

You can know roll many times in a row if need be. However you are not rolling forever like if it were removed.

This is what i would do, what about you?

SemiD4rkness · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Magicka users will vote to leave it as it is, stam users will vote remove it. Im a stam templar so remove it ...

Ampnode · March 2016

Leave it.

As a faithful stamina build, I think there should be a penalty for roll dodging. I know, it was a big nerf to stam builds but hear me out. You can think of it as a fix. Roll Dodging negates 100% of damage. In 1.6 people were able to roll dodge infinitely without having a drawback. I do, however, think it should be capped at certain percentage. 100% or maybe 125% would be a good cap.

Also, I voted for the wrong option... Meant to choose "Other." ._.

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

@Ampnode

The thing is, someone spamming roll dodge is not hurting anyone around them.

You can basically achieve the same outcome by spamming shields. However if enough people hit a shield user they will go down.

I never thought roll dodge was a bad mechanic. That was the power of stamina. The ability to endure a fight using stamina. They had the stamina to fight.

It's easy to cc a stamina build and kill them. I die to 2-3 gap closers at the same time. It's not that big of a deal in my eyes.

Stamina lost its edge. The ones who did not like roll dodge did not like the burst behind it. Burst is vastly different today compared to 1.6.

Nightblades cannot do what they could in 1.6. So in my eyes its valid to being it back.

Elsonso · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

While I answered to remove it, if they reduced the penalty significantly, that might have the same effect.

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

lordrichter wrote: »

While I answered to remove it, if they reduced the penalty significantly, that might have the same effect.

I've alway's wondered this myself. Where did the values come from?

25% more per. 4 sec cd that refreshes per dodge.

there are situatuons where rolling 3-4 times is fine.

the problem back in the day was enginee guardian and burst. you could roll roll roll fear kill repeat.

damage can be mitigated now and people know how to play.

imo it should be 15% with a static 6 second cooldown. if you roll 5 times in a row it will cost a lot. if you roll once every 2-3 seconds it's now a fine cost.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2016

How about we trade the dodge roll fatigue for repetitive wrecking blow fatigue?

Nafirian · March 2016

Leave it.

You kidding right roll roll roll roll roll roll roll yea nooooooo.

Sausage · March 2016

Other.

Im PS4 player but didnt they add Camps and if they reduced mobility sounds like fun to me. I think Camps should have a pact of Guards protecting it. Everybody should die and get kills, then everyone is happy, let shooter genre be a proof of that, ESO should embrace that, thats why Ive always supported Camps myself. Currently we have "Rambo" builds, Rambos owns noobs/casuals. Step in the right direction if true.

GreenGhostMan · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Magicka users will vote to leave it as it is, stam users will vote remove it. Im a stam templar so remove it ...

I'm not so sure... It does help stam builds more, but it still helps magicka builds. As a magicka build, you'll be able to string more roll dodges together.

I voted remove it, but after thinking about it, I want to change my vote to "other." Maybe reduce the penalty but not remove it. Shouldn't be able to string unlimited roll dodges together at once. That would wear any warrior out!!

Marktoneth3 · March 2016

Leave it.

Just leave it be

and in other hand,they should make penalty for those skill spammer just like dark soul did

i.e ......roll to them and then back step

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Nafirian wrote: »

You kidding right roll roll roll roll roll roll roll yea nooooooo.

Would you care if they modified the current penalty?

You can roll once every 3 seconds and be penalized. Does that sound fair or even fun gameplay?

I would much rather a suppressed regen then increased cost. If you have low regen you cant roll at all.

The 4 second reset imo is the problem. It needs to be static and not reset until expired.

Brrrofski · March 2016

Other.

It needed a penalty, the current amount is a bit too much though. Although you still encounter permanent rollers occasionally.

ToRelax · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

A stacking cost on dodge roll is a poor band aid, but that doesn't mean it would be a good idea to remove it without addressing the underlying issues. Permarolling certainly isn't a good mechanic, and since it's mostly used with animation cancelling, it does in fact, hurt.
Also the OP is horribly biased and doesn't show much of a clue about different builds.

Nafirian · March 2016

Leave it.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Nafirian wrote: »

You kidding right roll roll roll roll roll roll roll yea nooooooo.

Would you care if they modified the current penalty?

You can roll once every 3 seconds and be penalized. Does that sound fair or even fun gameplay?

I would much rather a suppressed regen then increased cost. If you have low regen you cant roll at all.

The 4 second reset imo is the problem. It needs to be static and not reset until expired.

My Nightblade is stamina and i sustain just fine by rolling multiple times if people cant deal with it adapt and get better its easy, I roll alot on my night blade still never run out of resources.

Master_Kas · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Nafirian wrote: »

You kidding right roll roll roll roll roll roll roll yea nooooooo.

But hold block permanently (before the nerf that is) and shieldspam all day is okay?

FU naf xD

Topic: Maybe not completly remove it but reduce it a bit, and change the 0 stam regen while blocking to like 35-50% regen nerf when blocking?

Then people can roll, shield, heal, block all day everyday ! Everyone wins.

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

@ToRelax

"Horribly biased. Doesnt have a clue about different build's."

Would you like to enlighten me?

Permarolling is an issue. However the current implentation to prevent this has ruined the mechanic all together. People will heal through damage instead of rolling.

This is just a discussion to see what people think about the mechanic and if it needs a tweak.

CyrusArya · March 2016

I love how Stam biased people always frame this cp change as if only magicka users can spec into hardy. Stam users have to deal with wrecking blow spam, bowtards, and nightblades too ya know. It's true our damage is a bit lower now against magicka builds, but it's only really an issue against good sorcs. You can't really say any of the other 3 classes had very balanced match ups against good Stam builds last patch- especially templar and nightblade. Anyways, I vote no for the same reason I voted no to the poll for bringing block back. Roll Dodge, like block, is way too powerful mitigation to be unregulated. You also have to keep in mind that they made vigor extremely accessible to compensate for the roll dodge change. If they reverted it now, it would make Stam builds in general too strong.

While the dodge changes make it harder to play stamina builds, I'll say the same exact thing I said about the block change. It promotes more skillful play and better resource management.

Emma_Overload · March 2016

Other.

You can have roll dodge back when they remove the 50% stacking, exponentially increasing cost of Bolt Escape.

Acrolas · March 2016

Other.

ZOS needs to take the entire team to a gym so they can learn what endurance is IRL.
Because stamina ≠ endurance. Stamina recovery is endurance, and if you have a high number there you should be able to do an action over and over again without fatigue. Whereas if you have a high stamina but low endurance you shouldn't because you'll deplete the resource quickly.

Somehow endurance became more synonymous with health as the primary stat, which isn't accurate. You get a slight stamina recovery with the three-piece set, but agility messed things up by not being called strength to begin with. Agility doesn't really factor into any game activity yet.

This is why it helps to have a well-balanced development team. A person who actually knows a lot about fitness is going to design a more nuanced and natural physical/combat system, rather than somebody who programs the moves and then arbitrarily plugs in numbers and makes *** up as they go along.

Which is basically why stamina is in such bad shape right now.

ToRelax · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@ToRelax

"Horribly biased. Doesnt have a clue about different build's."

Would you like to enlighten me?

Permarolling is an issue. However the current implentation to prevent this has ruined the mechanic all together. People will heal through damage instead of rolling.

This is just a discussion to see what people think about the mechanic and if it needs a tweak.

Okay, since you are asking. I don't care... you could at least learn2quote though.
Part of it I already mentioned: You are playing down the potential problems. Stating roll dodging wouldn't hurt anyone, shifting the focus on burst damage instead and mentioning other Wrecking Blow and shield spamming as comparable mechanics. Tbh, the very same root problems break these mechanics that made perma rolling possible.

Further this wonderful post to make appearant what it is you pretend to want or think. And to address the point made, while magicka healing is, in fact, more reliably because it doesn't rely on HoTs and a burst heal every 10-20 seconds, it's the exact opposite for damage.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Bring back fkin roll dodge with no cost. Magicka classes can heal without a care in the world.

Stamina either has to roll or block to heal since we only have vigor and rally. these are not enough in most situations.

give stamina back roll dodge. no stam regen isnt that bad but roll dodge is stupid. this is not bolt escape.

Rex-Umbra · March 2016

Other.

Keep penalty but lower cost slightly overall.

Samadhi · March 2016

Other.

Change it so that after roll-dodging a character cannot use any skills for the same duration that they cannot be harmed by skills.

and/or

Make it so that Circle of Protection from the Fighter's Guild provides a similar debuff to roll dodge as Magelight provides against Cloak.

Then

Remove the cost increase from Bolt Escape and replace it with a debuff that makes the character unable to buff with wards for the same duration.

Cost increase was a poorly thought-out mechanic, that I am pretty sure got adopted because League of Legends used it for Kassadin's teleport.
In a game like LoL, where skills generally have cooldowns altering the flow of battle, it works.
In a game like ESO, it is an issue -- and having extended the actions that formula applies to rather than repealing the original one hampers the game further.

Joy_Division · March 2016

Leave it.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@ToRelax

"Horribly biased. Doesnt have a clue about different build's."

Would you like to enlighten me?

Permarolling is an issue. However the current implentation to prevent this has ruined the mechanic all together. People will heal through damage instead of rolling.

This is just a discussion to see what people think about the mechanic and if it needs a tweak.

Your OP actually asked "Should stamina builds be given roll dodge back?" Where did it go? How was it taken away?

The mechanic is not ruined. You dodge. You avoid every instantaneous single-target ability in the game.

What is ruined is that you can't perma dodge roll from Sejanus to Alessia. Sorry, don't ever want to go back to such idiocy.

Malmai · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Remove

Kendaric · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Remove and don't forget to remove that silly green glow as well. Or just remove the green glow, good enough for me.

LiquidSchwartz · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Primarily a Stam player but I would love it removed because of my magicka toons.. Can't break free more than 1 time so I need to dodge roll more that I'm allowed now or make it scale off max Stam so it costs more the more you have
Magicka is op but 1 stun usually murders me

Xjcon · March 2016

Why? So you can dodge roll 50 times without draining stamina? Finishing a stamina player is tough enough without them knowing they have to be careful how much they dodge roll.

Cast vigor, Dodge Roll, Dodge Roll, back to Wrecking blow.

Frawr · March 2016

the problem is the regen due to lack of soft caps.

The resource management used to be the limiting factor in this game (instead of cool downs). That has been thrown out of the window with the removal of soft caps.

Master_Kas · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You can have roll dodge back when they remove the 50% stacking, exponentially increasing cost of Bolt Escape.

I want this aswell. My sorc would love it

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

Remove stamina roll penalty.

ToRelax wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@ToRelax

"Horribly biased. Doesnt have a clue about different build's."

Would you like to enlighten me?

Permarolling is an issue. However the current implentation to prevent this has ruined the mechanic all together. People will heal through damage instead of rolling.

This is just a discussion to see what people think about the mechanic and if it needs a tweak.

Okay, since you are asking. I don't care... you could at least learn2quote though.
Part of it I already mentioned: You are playing down the potential problems. Stating roll dodging wouldn't hurt anyone, shifting the focus on burst damage instead and mentioning other Wrecking Blow and shield spamming as comparable mechanics. Tbh, the very same root problems break these mechanics that made perma rolling possible.

Further this wonderful post to make appearant what it is you pretend to want or think. And to address the point made, while magicka healing is, in fact, more reliably because it doesn't rely on HoTs and a burst heal every 10-20 seconds, it's the exact opposite for damage.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Bring back fkin roll dodge with no cost. Magicka classes can heal without a care in the world.

Stamina either has to roll or block to heal since we only have vigor and rally. these are not enough in most situations.

give stamina back roll dodge. no stam regen isnt that bad but roll dodge is stupid. this is not bolt escape.

It's hard to quote on mobile. If you understood the comment then no harm done.

Glad to see you saw my bad side with the 2nd quote. Im not perfect by any means. I get angry

I believe roll dodge should be tweaked for sure. This is just a fun discussion anyway.

That thread where you found that comment is what sparked me to make this discussion.

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Roll dodge. Bring it back to 1.6?

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