The end of Templar Healers?

ataggs · March 2016

After playing the past few days, I can say the skills that once made Templar Healers desired in PVP groups are all but useless. Heals either don't hit the group, take too long to cast, or aren't strong enough.

Is there any advantage to a Templar Healer at this point over any other class? Why not just have each group member responsible for their own heals?

Can anyone talk me off the ledge?

bikerangelo · March 2016

Templars are just the 3 legged dogs of dungeon runs, only our other leg was replaced with a bionic execute that all the other dogs are jealous of.
You're a unique puppy and everything's gonna be okay.

maxjapank · March 2016

ataggs wrote: »

After playing the past few days, I can say the skills that once made Templar Healers desired in PVP groups are all but useless. Heals either don't hit the group, take too long to cast, or aren't strong enough.

Is there any advantage to a Templar Healer at this point over any other class? Why not just have each group member responsible for their own heals?

Can anyone talk me off the ledge?

Well...I'm just so confused. Other than BoL healing one less person for half, nothing has changed. If anything, you should be more powerful. If you are standing in your Purifying Ritual and/or Rune Focus, you are getting +25% bonus to your heals, Templar heals and Resto staff heals, for everyone nearby. And you still get that bonus for 4 secs after leaving those circles. Templars are still the best healers.

Karamis_Vimardon · March 2016

Don't worry, just by building your house you bring more to the group than you ever could have just healing.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

Karamis_Vimardon wrote: »

Don't worry, just by building your house you bring more to the group than you ever could have just healing.

This statement doesn't add anything to the discussion really, but I just had to say 'Keep the Home fires burning'.

lolo_01b16_ESO · March 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

ataggs wrote: »

After playing the past few days, I can say the skills that once made Templar Healers desired in PVP groups are all but useless. Heals either don't hit the group, take too long to cast, or aren't strong enough.

Is there any advantage to a Templar Healer at this point over any other class? Why not just have each group member responsible for their own heals?

Can anyone talk me off the ledge?

Well...I'm just so confused. Other than BoL healing one less person for half, nothing has changed. If anything, you should be more powerful. If you are standing in your Purifying Ritual and/or Rune Focus, you are getting +25% bonus to your heals, Templar heals and Resto staff heals, for everyone nearby. And you still get that bonus for 4 secs after leaving those circles. Templars are still the best healers.

Previously templars got +30% on their class heals, now only 25%, but for all heals. Also other classes got their heals buffed (e.g. sorc pets) so they don't need to be healed that much anymore.
However I still think that repentance is a powerfull skill that makes it worth having a Templar in your group.

KenaPKK · March 2016

They nerfed Nightblades' Funnel Health to only apply one HoT to an ally, previously two. Ssshhhh.

maxjapank · March 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Previously templars got +30% on their class heals, now only 25%, but for all heals.

That's correct. +25% bonus to all heals! And even to anyone standing way outside our circles. So for PVP, which is what the OP is talking about, this is a massive boost to our burst heals.

Zheg · March 2016

Templars will still be the go-to healers. After many iterations and experimentation, blessing of restoration is in no way a suitable replacement for breath of life. It is situational and appropriate for tight chokes like stairs/inner keeps/etc. The issue is that barriers used to be a cushion for healing, and now during bombs the entire group's HP drops and when breath hits only 2, it's not enough. Healing springs has issues sometimes in lag, blessing has the stupid self-imposed snare unless you jump during the cast, and ritual still has a cast time because Wrobel doesn't and won't ever understand that heals can't have cast times like that.

The rapids nerf affects healers more than ANY other role in pvp and ours are almost always behind the group. Templars need to heal just to keep themselves up, but doing so removes rapids, and with breath only hitting 2, in large fights your heals might not even hit you because they're going to lower health targets.

No one is even running fasalla's guile yet, and the heal debuffs from the meatbag and DF spam are near-permanent during fights because of how expensive purge is.

On the one hand, I do enjoy how difficult healing is in this patch. I've never struggled this much on a dps or any other role as much as I am while healing during this patch. On the other hand, a lot of the changes were poorly thought out and are heavily skewed against certain classes and roles, and Wrobel seems to just shrug his shoulders and be ok with that. NO ONE enjoys the snare/root meta either, and besides the heal debuff proliferation, the rapids nerf is above all else probably the biggest issue for healers.

Have any sorcs tried healing with their twilights?

HoloYoitsu · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Have any sorcs tried healing with their twilights?

Twilight doesn't stay alive reliably enough in a keep fight for it to be worth using for a single sorc. However, a cadre of 5 or so sorcs dedicated to spamming Twilight would have good uptime on the pet and be decent secondary heals.

A sorc healer can streamline their build to take advantage of certain things:

Twilight heals scale only off max magicka, not spell dmg.
Hardened Ward scaling off max magicka.
Negate has nothing to do w/ spell dmg.
Streak is used for it's CC and not the dmg anyway.

So a sorc healer could just go full cost reduction & regen while pushing mag up to ~50k and be an optimum healers while still maintaining group utility. Then you just keep 1 token Templar for Repentance.

DisgracefulMind · March 2016

I've spent the last few days playing my Templar, and I really haven't had any issues healing. Then again, I play in small groups, as larger ones aren't for me.

Besides the extremely frustrating lack of mobility on a templar, and the fact that toppling doesn't want to work 90% of the time, Templar is incredibly strong. But the breath nerf doesn't hurt my healing in the smaller groups i play in, and that's what I was most worried about with the nerf. Larger groups have the option of having more Templars to pick up the heat in situations, but in small groups I'm the only one healing and having to output damage as well, and I'm not finding myself running out of magicka if I need to spam, nor am I not able to heal my group efficiently.

The nerf sucks, I'm sad about it, but with the major mending buff applying, and the fact that i'm ALWAYS standing in a ritual or channeled focus when the heat is on, I'd say that Templar healing in PvP is in an okay place.

But I can see how larger groups might be having more problems with the breath nerf + the barrier nerf.

As @Zheg has already said, though, no one is running Fasalla's Guile yet, so we'll see how it ends up being when that becomes widespread. If everyone and their mother ends up running it, then I think the breath nerf might be even more unjustified. As it stands at the moment, however, it's not too bad. Healing properly now just takes a little bit more concentration and skill; it's not a bad change.

But yeah, the snares now are probably my worst enemy. Snares are everywhere, and already having no mobility really hurts when I need to get out of a sticky situation.

ataggs · March 2016

bikerangelo wrote: »

Templars are just the 3 legged dogs of dungeon runs, only our other leg was replaced with a bionic execute that all the other dogs are jealous of.
You're a unique puppy and everything's gonna be okay.

Thank you!!! This got me off the ledge

Lava_Croft · March 2016

Try something else than endlessly spamming Breath of Life?

ataggs · March 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

ataggs wrote: »

After playing the past few days, I can say the skills that once made Templar Healers desired in PVP groups are all but useless. Heals either don't hit the group, take too long to cast, or aren't strong enough.

Is there any advantage to a Templar Healer at this point over any other class? Why not just have each group member responsible for their own heals?

Can anyone talk me off the ledge?

Well...I'm just so confused. Other than BoL healing one less person for half, nothing has changed. If anything, you should be more powerful. If you are standing in your Purifying Ritual and/or Rune Focus, you are getting +25% bonus to your heals, Templar heals and Resto staff heals, for everyone nearby. And you still get that bonus for 4 secs after leaving those circles. Templars are still the best healers.

Previously templars got +30% on their class heals, now only 25%, but for all heals. Also other classes got their heals buffed (e.g. sorc pets) so they don't need to be healed that much anymore.
However I still think that repentance is a powerfull skill that makes it worth having a Templar in your group.

I agree, Repentance is still nice. It pretty much stays on my bar full time. But how many of those do you need in a group? Are most healers now running Rapid Regen or Healing Springs as the go to heal? What are you using open field vs what you are using in a keep?

Mumyo · March 2016

Groupbots...

PosternHouse · March 2016

@Wrobel

We just want to walk around your game without our feet permanently stuck in molasses. Pls. PLS.

HoloYoitsu · March 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Try something else than endlessly spamming Breath of Life?

I mindlessly spam Twilight now.

#ThanksWrobel

Elara_Northwind · March 2016

In pvp I don't usually heal people, unless they are my friends and are in trouble, but so far, to be honest, I haven't really noticed any major difference...

crislevin · March 2016

Twilight matriarch heals pretty good. Assuming 40k Magicka, it heals two target 13k with 20k on a critical.

It's not as durable, but throw a ward and she can last a bit. With 2 sorc, it does relief some duty of the temp.

Downside is a sorc has to triple bar her.

Brrrofski · March 2016

Bol heals one less person. That's the only difference.

Or have I missed something?

As long as there is no stam regen while blocking, a tank will mostly want a temp healer. Stam dps will mostly want a temp healer. This bol thing is such an overreaction. Rapid regen, healing ward, healing springs and combat prayer. Use them.

crislevin · March 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

Bol heals one less person. That's the only difference.

Or have I missed something?

As long as there is no stam regen while blocking, a tank will mostly want a temp healer. Stam dps will mostly want a temp healer. This bol thing is such an overreaction. Rapid regen, healing ward, healing springs and combat prayer. Use them.

one less person is 33%-50% reduction in efficiency..... BOL was Templar's panic heal that works better than others, now it doesn't.

the question is without BOL, in group dungeons, is templar really a better healer than other classes, especially sorc with twilight matriach. I suspect yes, but advantage is diminishing fast.

crislevin · March 2016

Delete

HoloYoitsu · March 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

Bol heals one less person. That's the only difference.

Or have I missed something?

As long as there is no stam regen while blocking, a tank will mostly want a temp healer. Stam dps will mostly want a temp healer. This bol thing is such an overreaction. Rapid regen, healing ward, healing springs and combat prayer. Use them.

Haha that's funny, you may not have noticed but this is the alliance war forum, we're talking about pvp.

Zheg · March 2016

One thing that I'll add with regards to templar healers, the channeled focus nerf is no bueno, though most templars realized that well ahead of time. I'm constantly having to reapply my focus because the area denial with siege and stupidly high damage numbers does not allow you to stay in one spot during a fight. I need to pay more attention next time I'm in pvp, but I wouldn't be surprised if the magicka cost ends up outweighing the benefit of the regen in some fights where you're constantly trying to reposition and move. Your 'house' idea is moronic given the meta (and previous ones) that you've introduced @Wrobel , but I'm sure you don't need to be told that again, or do you?

Joy_Division · March 2016

SadieJoan wrote: »

In pvp I don't usually heal people, unless they are my friends and are in trouble ...

That's ... kinda mean IMHO.

ataggs · March 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Try something else than endlessly spamming Breath of Life?

Thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't really noticed there were other skills. No wonder I have sooooo many available skill points.

myrrrorb14_ESO · March 2016

Arguably, Templars are still the best healers. Even with the nerf. Other classes got very nice buffs though, so the difference isn't as big.

Major Mending will mostly be a buff, since most groups don't stay in the giant purifying ritual circle. Will be a nerf for me, because my team knows to stay / go towards me for healing.

Buff to damage is nice though isn't it? Long live the Jesus Beam!

driosketch · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

No one is even running fasalla's guile yet, and the heal debuffs from the meatbag and DF spam are near-permanent during fights because of how expensive purge is.

Should be using purifying ritual and teaching people how and when to hit 'X' instead now anyways, what with purge being group only, useless versus siege debuffs, and setting I-Det off early.

Zheg · March 2016

driosketch wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

No one is even running fasalla's guile yet, and the heal debuffs from the meatbag and DF spam are near-permanent during fights because of how expensive purge is.

Should be using purifying ritual and teaching people how and when to hit 'X' instead now anyways, what with purge being group only, useless versus siege debuffs, and setting I-Det off early.

It has a 30 second CD on the synergy (if I'm remembering correctly), and with the sheer volume of siege and debuffs in general, it's hardly an l2p issue of people not purging or hitting a synergy. With how many DF are flying around in cyrodiil now, that's the other major source and the frequency with which it's being applied far outpaces what you can purge. Templars can pop their purify over and over again, but then heals aren't going out to cover the massive damage numbers.

Go run the s'rendarr add-on, turn on all debuffs, and then it becomes pretty obvious how the purify synergy is just a drop in the bucket.

Manoekin · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

One thing that I'll add with regards to templar healers, the channeled focus nerf is no bueno, though most templars realized that well ahead of time. I'm constantly having to reapply my focus because the area denial with siege and stupidly high damage numbers does not allow you to stay in one spot during a fight. I need to pay more attention next time I'm in pvp, but I wouldn't be surprised if the magicka cost ends up outweighing the benefit of the regen in some fights where you're constantly trying to reposition and move. Your 'house' idea is moronic given the meta (and previous ones) that you've introduced @Wrobel , but I'm sure you don't need to be told that again, or do you?

It's supposed to last 8 seconds after leaving the rune. If it isn't, then create a bug report and add it to the list thread.

driosketch · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

No one is even running fasalla's guile yet, and the heal debuffs from the meatbag and DF spam are near-permanent during fights because of how expensive purge is.

Should be using purifying ritual and teaching people how and when to hit 'X' instead now anyways, what with purge being group only, useless versus siege debuffs, and setting I-Det off early.

It has a 30 second CD on the synergy (if I'm remembering correctly), and with the sheer volume of siege and debuffs in general, it's hardly an l2p issue of people not purging or hitting a synergy. With how many DF are flying around in cyrodiil now, that's the other major source and the frequency with which it's being applied far outpaces what you can purge. Templars can pop their purify over and over again, but then heals aren't going out to cover the massive damage numbers.

Go run the s'rendarr add-on, turn on all debuffs, and then it becomes pretty obvious how the purify synergy is just a drop in the bucket.

Is that actually true about the cd on the senergy? Because if so, I'm sorry but non templars are pretty much screwed. I can cleanse myself as fast as I can swap bars all day. In the meantime I'm hitting enemies with inevitable detonation, unstable core, and dark flare.