Can someone explain to me why skill damage should scale with max magicka/stamina?

Artjuh90 · February 2016

i think skills should skill more to weapon and spell damage with a minor increase with allot of magicka and stamina. this makes more sense and would people not just stack health

Iove · February 2016

This would really help tanks and people playing with a race with useless racial skills, such as a high elf stam build, or Khajiit magicka, if I'm making any sense.

If this was somehow implemented into the game, race skills wouldn't unbalance the game so much and tanks would actually be able to change gear and do real damage, have a break from tanking once in a while and improve their solo play.

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2016

MCMancub wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Darkeus wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Because if it didn't, everyone would just stack health and recovery instead.

yeah right and cast 2 skills and doge 2 times and bye bye

He didn't mean health regen, and he was right. If all resources did was increase your pool, there would be no need for them. Put all attribute points into health and gear for stamina/magicka regeneration. That's it.

I disagree. The size of your resource pool determines how much burst damage you can do - even if it does not scale up your skill damage. So there will always be an advantage to having a larger pool.

Not if you can stack more regen than you need. If I can only use X magicka/stamina per 2 seconds and my regen is at least X, I have no need for any more magicka/stamina than X.

They could adjust those number though. Give less bonuses to regen.

Anhedonie · February 2016

DO NOT NECRO

NewBlacksmurf · February 2016

I believe the original design was to scale because if you pumped X amount in at a certain level, it gave reduced results (Overcharged) and then they changed it. Problem is, they didn't change the part you're asking about.

Back then, IMO it made sense and forced us to balance our point pools.
Now anything like this will have to wait until after the removal of VR levels.

Dredlord · February 2016

In order to balanc ethis now, simply add damage reduction to hp stat so it also has a secondary effect, defensively.

rfennell_ESO · February 2016

Having a weapdmg and spelldmg stat should really have precluded the magicka/stamina stats from adding to damage.

The "I disagree because reasons" people are probably all magicka stacking sorcs who love max defense and max offense in one build.

J2JMC · February 2016

spoqster wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

Vaelen wrote: »

I think they scaled it that way to make it more diverse and customizable and to ditch the cookie cutter metas which alot of games are infamous for such as GW2. If they made it so only spell damage/weapon damage scaled with skills, then everyone would ditch having more Magicka or Stamina in gear and just shoot for the most Spell Damage/Weapon Damage, thus making it more cookie cutter in terms of viable builds.

But weapon and spell damage are pseudo capped. People already max it out and then they put everything else into mag/stam. It seems like decoupling the two would actually lead to more choice, rather than fewer.

Softcaps have been removed from the game(which actually leads to less diversity imo, but that's another story), not sure what you mean with that?

Also, may be too sleepy but I don't see how removing skills' scaling with resource pool would actually change much for the game as it is now - resource pool is already a much weaker dps buff than spell/wep damage and much worse for sustain than high regeneration. So basically most dps hardcore stack spell/wep damage, if they have any magicka/stamina buffs in there that's because they come with the sets, if we could we'd go spell damage for all 5 set bonuses:P Tanks and healers have a bit more versatility, tanks mainly figuring something between resource pool/regeneration(favoring regeneration I think), healers having a possible use for all three. Nothing would change for dps in your scenario, nothing would really change for tanks(I don't see a tank stacking spell/wep damage because it'd be losing on sustain which tanks imo need a lot more than dps or whatever) and healers would just slightly reconsider their builds to stack more regeneration instead of resource pool(which some already do anyway).

If you're just looking to decrease the gap in between what worst and best player can do I don't think you're going in the right direction. I'd try the CP one=P
Also lack of information. There're some things which are counter intuitive and not listed anywhere, giving people who have somehow obtained that secret information a nice advantage over others. Like dual wielding increasing spelldamage more than a staff(though guess this one is pretty known by now).

@Magdalina, What I meant by pseudo capped is that you can only get extra spell/weapon damage through set bonuses and this is highly constricted.

Maybe you're right, and it wouldn't change too much about the game. But again, I'm also interested in this from a more abstract/academic perspective.

At any rate it feels wrong that experienced players can do 4 or 5 times as much dps as the casual gamer. In most real world examples you invest 20% of the time to get 80% of the results, while you'd have to invest 80% of time to get the remaining 20% in terms of results. Applied to ESO that would mean that 80% of the players should be able to do 10k dps, while 20% of the players should be able to do 12k dps. No one should be able to do 40k dps. I think it's unhealthy for the game that way, but maybe that's just me. Reducing the pool/damage coupling would at least be one step in that direction.

CP and Knowledge of the game have a much larger effect on DPS out put than your resource pool. Having 40k magicka compared to someone's 35k magicka doesn't mean jack if you're spamming crystal frags while the other person is weaving force pulse with insta casted frags. If you actually want to close the gap, the atrocious CP system needs to be addressed and bugs like the axe bleed, sa proccing of dots, and many others I'm missing need to be addressed. It does also help to actually learn the various mechanics of the game such as medium weaving. I will say this is harder on the console side as we can't actually tell what damage we do so it is not intuitive to believe things like medium weaving increase dps.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2016

It creates a trade off this way. It allows people to make a choice between health and their primary resource. If you want to hit harder, you will be more squishy as a result. I personally think it makes a ton of sense.

spoqster · March 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

It creates a trade off this way. It allows people to make a choice between health and their primary resource. If you want to hit harder, you will be more squishy as a result. I personally think it makes a ton of sense.

But even without the dmg scaling there is a strong effect, namely that you have more resources at your disposal. This is especially important if you are going for a high burst build.

I see your point, but I think this additional trade off is not necessary as you are balancing more health already against having less resources.

AfkNinja · March 2016

Agree 1100%

Prabooo · March 2016

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

So every single person in the game would use weapon damage set's? No thank you.

Brrrofski · March 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

yea, id prefer if the resource pools didn't.

I play a tank and will never be able to dps with the character because dpsing is super dependent on magic/stam resource pool, but tanking requires hp attributes/enchants, and switching attributes every times I want to do something new would be a nightmare.

Unless your talking vet trials...

Put all attributes into magica or stam.

Make dps set.

Make tank set, stick all enchants into health.

You can chop and change that easy with CP.

End game trials you might struggle, but pledges are fine like that.

Tdroid · March 2016

I don't mind damage/ability power being tied to max magicka and stamina... as long as they balance the races around that. Which they haven't.

Currently there are 3 races that are worthy of magicka damage and healer builds; Dunmer(specifically Dragonknights), Bretons and Altmer. And there are 2 for stamina; Redguard and Imperial. I guess Orcs can work, but the high health and Red Diamond ability for Imperials seem vastly superior to me(good choice if you don't have Imperial edition though). Khajiit and Bosmer can have some interesting stuff, but ultimately they seem to come short on the damage.

My take on it is that races should have much lower bonuses to stats. Make it more of an aesthetic choice with some token nods to the "racial identity".

Why? Because in a game with race/faction lock, there need to be balance between the races assorted to each faction. Which there isn't. The Ebonheart Pact, for instance, has 2 of the 3 races being generally useless because of their weird abilities(Argonian) or overfocus on health(Nord).

On top of that, it also flies in the face of the "play whatever you want" thing. If I get punished for playing an Argonian or Nord damage dealer, something is wrong. Prior to the removal of the soft-caps, this was not a large issue, I think, because it was simply a matter of how to reach the caps. But without caps, the races with the bonuses to max stamina and max magicka suddenly became a lot more powerful compared to their health/odd racial competition. Really, the only thing a health race can really do is tanking and there are still plenty of reasons to go Imperial or Redguard over Nords or Argonians as tanks. Adrenaline Rush and Red Diamond makes great arguments in their favor, in addition to the extra resources to use on abilities.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Burning_Talons · March 2016

Becauss Wrobel knows all

danno8 · March 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

So every single person in the game would use weapon damage set's? No thank you.

And then they would have less stamina/magicka for sustain?

As opposed to right now where if you stack magicka/stamina you get both damage and sustain?

AddictionX · March 2016

I like this idea ... squishy characters that stack all onto one stat would be that ... like its supposed to be a good trade off.