New to vet ranks and new to group dungeons

GeoSand · March 2016

So, today I tried my first vet dungeon as a VR1 which, in hindsight, might have been a bit over my head. I was just so excited to finally make my first VR character (I work full-time so am a weekend gamer with occasional evening weekday game when I can). I play a Breton-Templar (resto staff / dest staff) and was in the healer role. Anyhow, I'm new to group dungeons and this first experience was just not that great. I've grouped with random people on quests before which were a lot of fun, so I figured getting grouped for a dungeon would be similar.

It was, and wasn't. I suppose I want to ask: is VR dungeons only really for hard-core gamers? I've read on these forums that VR dungeons should take only 20 minutes to clear? This one took about an hour or so, and for the most part, it felt so rushed, from one room to another, no reading and barely had time to sort inventory. I got yelled at by two other players (VR16 and VR4) who wasn't happy with me (VR1) and the other player (VR2) with "not getting how the boss works". I died 6 times during the whole run - is that really bad? As a the healer, yeah, I get it's not good at all to be out of the game, but I just didn't think I deserved to get the "what don't you understand" line.

Am I doing VR dungeons wrong? If you're a new VR say hello - would like to group with some like minded people who can meet weekends.

paul_j · March 2016

Which platform/faction do you play on?

Dagoth_Rac · March 2016

Which dungeon was it? Some are harder than others. Did you tell other players that you had never done the dungeon or quest before? Most will be polite enough to wait while you talk to NPCs if they know you are doing story quest. Otherwise, most will assume you are doing the daily pledge and just want to get in and get out and get your gold key as fast as possible.

6 deaths and 1 hour sounds pretty reasonable for someone new to a VR dungeon. They will become a lot easier with higher ranks, better gear, more Champion Points, etc. But also simply from practice.

GeoSand · March 2016

paul_j wrote: »

Which platform/faction do you play on?

On PC, Daggerfall Covenant.

paul_j · March 2016

I'd help you out but I'm on ps4

GeoSand · March 2016

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Which dungeon was it? Some are harder than others. Did you tell other players that you had never done the dungeon or quest before? Most will be polite enough to wait while you talk to NPCs if they know you are doing story quest. Otherwise, most will assume you are doing the daily pledge and just want to get in and get out and get your gold key as fast as possible.

6 deaths and 1 hour sounds pretty reasonable for someone new to a VR dungeon. They will become a lot easier with higher ranks, better gear, more Champion Points, etc. But also simply from practice.

Thanks for the advice. No, I didn't tell the other players - didn't really have time! By the time I arrived they had run ahead and I had to catch up so didn't have time to chat. Was this weird kind of running from one room to another. The only time we chatted was to complain or tell others off. Not great vibe, but the action was fun. And this is terrible, but I don't remember the dungeon name

The final boss was a mage that cast two different types of force fields, one type you had to be inside the field or die if left outside, the other type you had to get out of the field to stay alive. Oh man, I so need practice!

Nestor · March 2016

When you say VR Dungeons are you saying Dungeons that are scaled to Vet Rank or the Veteran Instance of an existing Group Dungeon? For the latter, I think about half the Group Dungeons in the game have an extension beyond the normal mode where the mobs are tougher and the bosses have stronger mechanics.

However any group dungeon can be of Veteran Rank (scale really in this case) based on the level of the group leader when you enter them. However they are the same mobs as normal group dungeons, just more health and damage dealt. It is Vet Mode that makes things much more challenging.

As for PUGs, sometimes they are good, sometimes they are not.

Alabyn · March 2016

GeoSand wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Which dungeon was it? Some are harder than others. Did you tell other players that you had never done the dungeon or quest before? Most will be polite enough to wait while you talk to NPCs if they know you are doing story quest. Otherwise, most will assume you are doing the daily pledge and just want to get in and get out and get your gold key as fast as possible.

6 deaths and 1 hour sounds pretty reasonable for someone new to a VR dungeon. They will become a lot easier with higher ranks, better gear, more Champion Points, etc. But also simply from practice.

Thanks for the advice. No, I didn't tell the other players - didn't really have time! By the time I arrived they had run ahead and I had to catch up so didn't have time to chat. Was this weird kind of running from one room to another. The only time we chatted was to complain or tell others off. Not great vibe, but the action was fun. And this is terrible, but I don't remember the dungeon name The final boss was a mage that cast two different types of force fields, one type you had to be inside the field or die if left outside, the other type you had to get out of the field to stay alive. Oh man, I so need practice!

If I am uncertain of a dungeon's mechanics, I will say this much before I zone into the dungeon. They are unlikely to take off without you, and so this gives you an opportunity to explain your intentions and see if they match the group's expectations. Once you arrive in the dungeon, yeah, everyone is off to the races.

As for the dungeon taking a long time, sometimes it takes a group a while to learn to work together. However, I politely give one warning, and then I will excuse myself and leave the group if there's any insulting, or ugly criticism.. I just don't have enough time gaming to tolerate it. At over 40, there's just not enough time left for me to listen to that nonsense.

Stay with it, though! I have fun healing pug groups at least 90% of the time.

EllieBlue · March 2016

Well as I am always telling new players, perhaps the best thing to do is join a casual pve guild. Usually fellow guildies are a lot more patient and kind to new players, takes time to explain the mechanic etc. You will also have a community to ask all your questions, get tips, discuss build etc etc. Make sure to let them know that you are new to dungeons etc etc. PUG are just that.. pick up group and they don't know and care about you since the likelihood of you running together regularly is pretty slim.

NBrookus · March 2016

GeoSand wrote: »

It was, and wasn't. I suppose I want to ask: is VR dungeons only really for hard-core gamers? I've read on these forums that VR dungeons should take only 20 minutes to clear? This one took about an hour or so, and for the most part, it felt so rushed, from one room to another, no reading and barely had time to sort inventory. I got yelled at by two other players (VR16 and VR4) who wasn't happy with me (VR1) and the other player (VR2) with "not getting how the boss works". I died 6 times during the whole run - is that really bad? As a the healer, yeah, I get it's not good at all to be out of the game, but I just didn't think I deserved to get the "what don't you understand" line.

Your first vet dungeons are going to be tough. Then you will learn the mechanics and they will start to be easy. There are many guides and videos online that discuss the mechanics if you want to bone up ahead of time. Or one of the others in your group should be able to explain each boss.

As other have said, if you are doing the quest, speak up. But don't be lingering over reading or really don't be sorting inventory while you are in a dungeon if you are with a PUG. Most just want to get the pledge done.

Heroborg · March 2016

Clear Cadwells silver and gold so you can get ranked up you will end at V12 i believe. Vet dungeons are hard so do regular first to know the dungeon area then do a vet and listen to the upper vets. I personally am a v15

Dagoth_Rac · March 2016

GeoSand wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Which dungeon was it? Some are harder than others. Did you tell other players that you had never done the dungeon or quest before? Most will be polite enough to wait while you talk to NPCs if they know you are doing story quest. Otherwise, most will assume you are doing the daily pledge and just want to get in and get out and get your gold key as fast as possible.

6 deaths and 1 hour sounds pretty reasonable for someone new to a VR dungeon. They will become a lot easier with higher ranks, better gear, more Champion Points, etc. But also simply from practice.

Thanks for the advice. No, I didn't tell the other players - didn't really have time! By the time I arrived they had run ahead and I had to catch up so didn't have time to chat. Was this weird kind of running from one room to another. The only time we chatted was to complain or tell others off. Not great vibe, but the action was fun. And this is terrible, but I don't remember the dungeon name The final boss was a mage that cast two different types of force fields, one type you had to be inside the field or die if left outside, the other type you had to get out of the field to stay alive. Oh man, I so need practice!

That sounds like Vaults of Madness. It is one of the longest dungeons in the game and has many Undead/Daedra bosses. A Wraith, a Harvester, a Bone Colussus, a Flesh Atronach, A Watcher, a Titan, and the final boss is a Lich. I think that is all of them. Does that sound familar?

I have some bad news, though. That is not a Veteran Dungeon, it is a Normal Dungeon! It will scale all the way up to VR16, but was originally a Level 50 dungeon. So it was the highest normal dungeon, but still a normal dungeon. Nonetheless, an hour and 6 deaths is not really that bad for Vaults of Madness. Especially if you are so new to dungeons that you do not know the name of dungeon or the difference between a normal and veteran dungeon!

I would recommend sticking with the normal dungeons (scaled to veteran levels) until they become easy. And they will! Then tackle the true Veteran dungeons. Since you were able to handle Vaults of Madness, you should also try Blackheart Haven, Selene's Web, and Blessed Crucible. They are one tier below Vaults of Madness in difficulty, but still some of the more difficult normal dungeons. Blackheart has some tricky mechanics, Blessed Crucible has a lot of "wave" fights, and Selene's Web has tons and tons of adds. All things you will need to be familiar with to get through veteran dungeons.

I died so many times to Praxin and Garron and Grobull and Imiril and Gamyne and so on when I first tried veteran dungeons. Names that are seared into my brain! It seemed impossible that other people thought they were so easy. I thought they were bluffing! Just pretending it was easy to look like hot shots. But eventually they all did become easy. Run them enough and it just becomes instinct.

While a couple of the hardest dungeons require very good gear and extremely high damage and healing, most do not. You can complete them with totally average gear. It just takes some time and practice and dying.

I am also on PC and in Daggerfall Covenant. In the US. Not sure if you are US or EU. If US, hit me up in game (same name as in forum) if you have more questions.

ryanborror · March 2016

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

GeoSand wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Which dungeon was it? Some are harder than others. Did you tell other players that you had never done the dungeon or quest before? Most will be polite enough to wait while you talk to NPCs if they know you are doing story quest. Otherwise, most will assume you are doing the daily pledge and just want to get in and get out and get your gold key as fast as possible.

6 deaths and 1 hour sounds pretty reasonable for someone new to a VR dungeon. They will become a lot easier with higher ranks, better gear, more Champion Points, etc. But also simply from practice.

Thanks for the advice. No, I didn't tell the other players - didn't really have time! By the time I arrived they had run ahead and I had to catch up so didn't have time to chat. Was this weird kind of running from one room to another. The only time we chatted was to complain or tell others off. Not great vibe, but the action was fun. And this is terrible, but I don't remember the dungeon name The final boss was a mage that cast two different types of force fields, one type you had to be inside the field or die if left outside, the other type you had to get out of the field to stay alive. Oh man, I so need practice!

That sounds like Vaults of Madness. It is one of the longest dungeons in the game and has many Undead/Daedra bosses. A Wraith, a Harvester, a Bone Colussus, a Flesh Atronach, A Watcher, a Titan, and the final boss is a Lich. I think that is all of them. Does that sound familar?

I have some bad news, though. That is not a Veteran Dungeon, it is a Normal Dungeon! It will scale all the way up to VR16, but was originally a Level 50 dungeon. So it was the highest normal dungeon, but still a normal dungeon. Nonetheless, an hour and 6 deaths is not really that bad for Vaults of Madness. Especially if you are so new to dungeons that you do not know the name of dungeon or the difference between a normal and veteran dungeon!

I would recommend sticking with the normal dungeons (scaled to veteran levels) until they become easy. And they will! Then tackle the true Veteran dungeons. Since you were able to handle Vaults of Madness, you should also try Blackheart Haven, Selene's Web, and Blessed Crucible. They are one tier below Vaults of Madness in difficulty, but still some of the more difficult normal dungeons. Blackheart has some tricky mechanics, Blessed Crucible has a lot of "wave" fights, and Selene's Web has tons and tons of adds. All things you will need to be familiar with to get through veteran dungeons.

I died so many times to Praxin and Garron and Grobull and Imiril and Gamyne and so on when I first tried veteran dungeons. Names that are seared into my brain! It seemed impossible that other people thought they were so easy. I thought they were bluffing! Just pretending it was easy to look like hot shots. But eventually they all did become easy. Run them enough and it just becomes instinct.

While a couple of the hardest dungeons require very good gear and extremely high damage and healing, most do not. You can complete them with totally average gear. It just takes some time and practice and dying.

I am also on PC and in Daggerfall Covenant. In the US. Not sure if you are US or EU. If US, hit me up in game (same name as in forum) if you have more questions.

Vaults isn't a vet dungeon. He probably ran vet fungal grotto. @GeoSand vet dungeons can be tricky for a lot of new vr players. A lot of the lower level dungeons are a lot easier and have mechanics that are easily ignored or burned through. Some of the vet dungeons have a dps check or a healer check and the mechanics require more group cohesiveness. A lot of people who turn vr 1 assume that they're ready for them and having played mostly solo up to this point, they don't understand group roles, game mechanics or how to properly do damage. It sounds like you did pretty well and understand your character. Pick up groups are unpredictable but the more you do them you'll find sometimes you get lucky. Try to find a guild to run dungeons or use zone chat. There a also lots of guides online for vet dungeons. Good to read up on bosses before going in. I'd suggest running vet wayrest sewers or vet elder hollow or spindle clutch as they are fairly easy for new people. It's all about your group and working together. I recently ran a low level banished cells with people who wouldn't communicate and I watched them fight kinlord rillis right next to where his orbs spawn so his health never went down and I stood on the far side of the room eating cereal waiting for them to figure it out.

GeoSand · March 2016

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Got a lot of learning to do - which is really good. This is my first vet character and I'm looking forward to all the new things and new areas to do in ESO. For a time, I kind of felt a lot of the small quests were really all grind (e.g. go get this thing that comes in X number of parts + go turn on X over there + fighting boss = equipment/weapon I don't really use but it's cool for parts/coin). Cheers ya'll.

GeoSand · March 2016

[quote="That sounds like Vaults of Madness. It is one of the longest dungeons in the game and has many Undead/Daedra bosses. A Wraith, a Harvester, a Bone Colussus, a Flesh Atronach, A Watcher, a Titan, and the final boss is a Lich. I think that is all of them. Does that sound familar?"[/quote]

It does *shudder* - thanks for clarifying it's not a vet dungeon. I was beginning to think OMG are they always this long and have all the enemies? Well if they are, that's cool, just need to work my way up!

Thanks for the encouragement and great advice. I think I'll stick to regular dungeons for now and find a guild that suits me where I'm at. On an EU server unfortunately, but sending a high-five from over there.

HebrewHatchet · March 2016

One thing that nobody seems to want to address is that you're playing with 3 other people, who usually took the time to clear out their inventory, repair their gear, come to the dungeon without any interruptions for the next hour or so. In other words, most people are courteous of others'time and therefore get frustrated when somebody comes unprepared. Keep in mind that while you're organizing your inventory or going back to repair, three people (who might have limited play time and who prepared for that) are just standing there.

To combat this, come prepared, tell everyone up front of you don't know the fights (and don't get offended if they want you out for it, and btw, it takes zero time to say "I'm new" while running), and try to be curtsied of other people's time.

If you do this you will immediately leave groups with no patience, and only complete dungeons with more patient groups.

TLDR: be courteous of other people's time.

Dagoth_Rac · March 2016

GeoSand wrote: »

[quote="That sounds like Vaults of Madness. It is one of the longest dungeons in the game and has many Undead/Daedra bosses. A Wraith, a Harvester, a Bone Colussus, a Flesh Atronach, A Watcher, a Titan, and the final boss is a Lich. I think that is all of them. Does that sound familar?"

It does *shudder* - thanks for clarifying it's not a vet dungeon. I was beginning to think OMG are they always this long and have all the enemies? Well if they are, that's cool, just need to work my way up!

Thanks for the encouragement and great advice. I think I'll stick to regular dungeons for now and find a guild that suits me where I'm at. On an EU server unfortunately, but sending a high-five from over there. [/quote]

A few notes about Normal versus Veteran. It used to be easy to tell Normal from Veteran because normal dungeons had enemies of Level 1 to 50 and Veteran dungeons had enemies of Veteran rank. And they never changed. Normal Spindleclutch always had Level 15 enemies. Veteran Spindleclutch always had Level VR5 enemies. And so on. But then they changed the dungeons to scale to group leader. So normal Spindleclutch could be anywhere from Level 15 to Level VR16 depending on who is running it, and Veteran Spindleclutch could be anywhere from VR1 to VR16 depending on who is running it.

So now you can go into a dungeon and see Veteran Rank enemies but it is still a "normal" dungeon. Nonetheless, a normal dungeon scaled to VR16 will be easier than a Veteran dungeon scaled to VR16. Even at same level, enemies will hit harder and have more difficult mechanics in veteran versus normal. Likewise, a Veteran dungeon that was originally VR5 and scaled to VR16 will be easier than a veteran dungeon that was originally VR12 and gets scaled to VR16.

Another confusing factor is that some dungeons have a completely different story and different bosses on normal versus veteran. While some have the same story and bosses, it is just harder on Veteran. For example, Veteran Spindleclutch is a continuation of the normal Spindleclutch storyline with new bosses. While Veteran White Gold Tower is exactly the same on normal and veteran, only the difficulty changes. And some dungeons have a normal version but no veteran version!

-> Both Normal and Veteran - Different Story and Bosses (in rough order of difficulty)
Spindleclutch
Banished Cells
Fungal Grotto
Wayrest Sewers
Elden Hollow
Darkshade Caverns
Crypt of Hearts
City of Ash

-> Normal Only (in rough order of difficulty)
Arx Corinium
Volenfell
Tempest Island
Direfrost Keep
Blackheart Haven
Selene's Web
Blessed Crucible
Vaults of Madness

-> Both Normal and Veteran - Same Story and Bosses (both very high difficulty on veteran)
White Gold Tower
Imperial City Prison