Let's Build the Templar House!!!

TheM0rganism · March 2016

I wanted to share some of my ideas that I feel would make the Templar feel more in line with the other three classes in terms of damage, mobility, resource regeneration and general quality-of-life performance.

Radial Sweep
Both morphs now replenish all resources for 9% per enemy hit, up to a maximum of 54%. Creasent Sweep now does Physical damage.

A serious resource regen on top of giving Stamplars an Ult to call their own. Keep in mind though, the damage for this Ult is not being changed. It still does the lowest of any Ult with the idea being that it'll keep the fight going, instead of putting an end to it.

Peircing Javelin
Both morphs now also add a DoT (fire for Aurora and physical bleed for Binding) and buff the caster with Major Sorcery/Brutality for 15 seconds based on the morph; Aurora or Binding, respectively.

The range buff is welcome in the upcoming patch, but the issue with it has really always been it's underwhelming damage-to-cost ratio. This would help even that out by increasing it's damage directly and also (FINALLY) giving Templars class-specific access to Major Brutality.

Focused Charge
Explosive Charge - Deals AOE damage, stunning any casting enemies, and TAUNTS all enemies in the radius for 8 seconds.
Toppling Charge - Stuns the targeted enemy and afflicts them with Minor Maim.

Templars were CLEARLY designed to be a tanking class. They should get the only AOE taunt in the game to incentivize more people to play that style.

Spear Shards
This skill no longer has a synergy. Both morphs stun a single enemy, and passively increase magika (luminous) or stamina (Blazing) to all allies in it's radius, in a similar fashion to Channeled Focus.

Finally, some class regen. Not to mention, as a tank, being starved for spears in trials is a real pain.

Sun Shield
Both morphs now STUN enemies when the shield expires.

This will add a serious hard AOE CC that has been desperately needed in the Templar kit for a long time. Also, the stun should only occur if the shield takes any damage, which will keep Templars from using it like magika det + gap closer. The stun length will be in proportion to how much damage it absorbed; anywhere from 0.8 sec to 2.4 sec if it was completely destroyed.

Balanced Warrior
Also increases Spell damage.

.

Long overdue.

Power of the Light (Backlash morph)
This morph now marks the CASTER for 6 seconds, recording the damage taken, and releasing it in an AOE for a 36% increase, up to a cap. Enemies caught in the AOE are also afflicted with Minor Breach and Minor Fracture for 8 seconds. The caster is healed for HALF of the damage inflicted. Costs Stamina.

A stamina-based AOE dmg/debuff/heal. That's a first.

Rite of Passage
Remembrance - Now has effects of both of it's current morphs (2 sec longer and dmg mitigation).
Path of the Phoenix (formerly Practiced Incantation) - Instantly resurrects ONE ally in it's radius.

Try and tell me that doesn't instantly change RoP from overwhelmingly boring into insanely sexy.

Healing Ritual
Ritual of Rebirth - Also adds a 4000 damage shield ON CAST to allies in the radius.
Lingering Ritual - On cast, also SNARES any enemies caught in the radius.

This move is sooooo lackluster that I've never even seen a Templar use it unironically. Now healers add a whole sense of support by either choosing to buff up their party with a shield or snare extra mobs in the area.

Radiant Aura (Morph of Restoring Aura)
On cast, all alies within the radius of the aura will return 2% health and 1% magika & stamina for every damaging move for 10 seconds. Does not apply to DoTs. This effect is DOUBLED for the caster.

This morph has never been good. Now, it's godly and a serious competitor to the brilliant Repentance.

Rune Focus
On top of both morphs, WHILE THE CASTER IS INSIDE THE RUNE, enemies are prohibited from moving THROUGH the rune. Any enemies caught in it's radius are also LOCKED inside of it for it's duration (or if they dodge-roll out of it). The duration of the Rune is DECREASED to 4 seconds.

The Radius is laughably small. But with this single caveat, it could become one of the most potent moves in the game and promote Eric's sense of the Templar identity by being the only move in the game that legitimately keeps enemies out of the house (or keep ). Great for tanks, squishy healers, and sieges.

The Speed of Light (Formerly Light Weaver)
Any allies affected by a casted spell in the Restoring Focus line receive Minor Expedition for 2 seconds.

Holy mobility, Batman. I've never once felt the passives of LW, and this will single-handedly make the Templar a mobile threat.

That's pretty much it. I just wanted to share some of my ideas that I felt fit the Templar identity while making the class just feel better overall.

puffy99 · March 2016

Awesome- You can have Wrobel's job. Go for it.

Asmael · March 2016

Huh, you gotta check your numbers, Radial sweep's resource return is insane considering the low ultimate cost of the ability.

A few things over the top, and a few interesting ideas. Ideas I approve:
- Balanced warrior gives spell power
- Explosive charge being an AoE taunt
- Power of the light - numbers might need tweaking but it is a nice concept
- Healing ritual - even tho nobody will use it anyway...
- Rite of passage - And a healing ultimate would actually be better than BoL. Finally.

Ideas I disapprove:
- Radial sweep - at least not with those numbers, but it definitely needs something to make it an actual option when compared to dawnbreaker
- Piercing Javelin - Why both morphs with a bleeding effect and major brutality? Right now, the magicka morph is underperforming, have terribad damage and a meh CC. It would make sense if it gave Major penetration, even if just for a few seconds, or even Minor Maim.
- Rune Focus - because this would basically be Talons Mark II
- Speed of light - BECAUSE STAY IN YOUR HOUSE, DIS AIN'T A MOBILE HOME

Others: Don't know / can't say

All these totally unconstructive and biased answers have been offered to you by @ImaNotATemplar™

TheM0rganism · March 2016

Asmael wrote: »

Huh, you gotta check your numbers, Radial sweep's resource return is insane considering the low ultimate cost of the ability.

A few things over the top, and a few interesting ideas. Ideas I approve:
- Balanced warrior gives spell power
- Explosive charge being an AoE taunt
- Power of the light - numbers might need tweaking but it is a nice concept
- Healing ritual - even tho nobody will use it anyway...
- Rite of passage - And a healing ultimate would actually be better than BoL. Finally.

Ideas I disapprove:
- Radial sweep - at least not with those numbers, but it definitely needs something to make it an actual option when compared to dawnbreaker
- Piercing Javelin - Why both morphs with a bleeding effect and major brutality? Right now, the magicka morph is underperforming, have terribad damage and a meh CC. It would make sense if it gave Major penetration, even if just for a few seconds, or even Minor Maim.
- Rune Focus - because this would basically be Talons Mark II
- Speed of light - BECAUSE STAY IN YOUR HOUSE, DIS AIN'T A MOBILE HOME

Others: Don't know / can't say

All these totally unconstructive and biased answers have been offered to you by @ImaNotATemplar™

Thank you! Just to retort:

I wanted Radial Sweep to feel good even against a single enemy, hence the 9%. And while your point seems really fair about it seeming OP, you'd still have to be 1v6 in melee range to get it's full affect, making the resource replenishment incredibly necessary. Also consider, it still does GARBAGE damage.
I edited the Javelin to apply Major Brut/Sorc based on the morph, which you might have missed. And I changed the bleed to a straight DoT. Let's just say Bleed for physical (Binding) and Mag-DoT for magic (Aurora).
What if Rune Focus' duration was DECREASED to 4 seconds? Since we're finally getting all of it's morphed buffs to-go, we don't really NEED to leave it there for so long. I mean...did we ever?
You know Speed of Light would be dope, though. Admit it

danno8 · March 2016

I want to comment...I'm just, I'm just...so tired.

TheM0rganism · March 2016

danno8 wrote: »

I want to comment...I'm just, I'm just...so tired.

I believe in you Danno! Use your words...

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

I like a lot of the concepts you filled out. They aren't all the way I would have gone with it, but they're all pretty cool. I still think Eclipse deserves better. I think jabs could be better conceived as well, given the way it roots and its awful targeting. Often the only time I use jabs is to get access to my spear passives, but usually I'd rather be using a weapon skill. A more magic-focused character has better reason to use the skill however.

leepalmer95 · March 2016

I like the general idea's though a few may need adjusting, your radical sweep would be better than the dk's passive

How about for radical, on use gain 15% of resources and additional 4% per enemy hit. So hitting 3 people would give 15 + 4 + 4 so 23%.

Been nice for rune focus to be a root, is doesn't go away if used and anyone who walks into it will be rooted.

TheM0rganism · March 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I like a lot of the concepts you filled out. They aren't all the way I would have gone with it, but they're all pretty cool. I still think Eclipse deserves better. I think jabs could be better conceived as well, given the way it roots and its awful targeting. Often the only time I use jabs is to get access to my spear passives, but usually I'd rather be using a weapon skill. A more magic-focused character has better reason to use the skill however.

I wanted to avoid taking about bugs/fixes and offer fresh takes, but I 100% agree with you on all that.

TheM0rganism · March 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I like the general idea's though a few may need adjusting, your radical sweep would be better than the dk's passive

How about for radical, on use gain 15% of resources and additional 4% per enemy hit. So hitting 3 people would give 15 + 4 + 4 so 23%.

Been nice for rune focus to be a root, is doesn't go away if used and anyone who walks into it will be rooted.

I don't feel like the resources are too high considering it's bottom-of-the-barrel damage. It's meant to keep the fight going, not end it

Also, I need to edit my Rune Focus description to reduce it's duration to 4 seconds. Since we get the buffs and it's morphs on the fly now, there's no reason to leave it on the ground for as long.

danno8 · March 2016

TheM0rganism wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

I want to comment...I'm just, I'm just...so tired.

I believe in you Danno! Use your words...

Sorry, I'm on feedback exhaustion.

Small feedback for you.

Radial 9% to 54% max is too high. 5%/25% tops. Maybe even less.

Rune Focus blocking people can't be a thing. People would never be able to get into a keep, or past a doorway. Way too OP.

Other stuff seems alright, if a little too focused on regeneration for other allies. Other classes have so much regeneration already that they mostly don't need any extra, or having a Templar around will let them focus even more into damage. Not sure I like that.

TheM0rganism · March 2016

danno8 wrote: »

TheM0rganism wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

I want to comment...I'm just, I'm just...so tired.

I believe in you Danno! Use your words...

Sorry, I'm on feedback exhaustion.

Small feedback for you.

Radial 9% to 54% max is too high. 5%/25% tops. Maybe even less.

Rune Focus blocking people can't be a thing. People would never be able to get into a keep, or past a doorway. Way too OP.

Other stuff seems alright, if a little too focused on regeneration for other allies. Other classes have so much regeneration already that they mostly don't need any extra, or having a Templar around will let them focus even more into damage. Not sure I like that.

Given how small the damage is (less than a host of class/weapon abilities), why would it's high regen be a problem? You're not going to kill anyone with it. And that's the point. Now they can't kill you either. Not to mention, you're only getting that high-end regen when you're in a 1 v 6 situation. How is that unfair?
Only for 4 secs tho?
I wanted a more Support feel than straight heal-bot, hence the shields and team regens.

Humatiel · March 2016

If support is the intent then why not focus on class lines that can smart-target buff players? or provide an aoe based debuff instead of targeted debuffs? For that matter why not go a step further and visualize the ability to give your own stats to other players in a channel of sorts.

If radial gave as much resources as you're looking for that means the fight would essentially have to be over in 30 seconds or less because if not the temp would have filled his ult slot again, and let's not get into gear that lowers the cost of an ultimate. It's just too high.

I can see rune focus being useful from a pve perspective, perhaps blocks npc and slows players for X seconds with irresistible debuff?

leepalmer95 · March 2016

TheM0rganism wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I like the general idea's though a few may need adjusting, your radical sweep would be better than the dk's passive

How about for radical, on use gain 15% of resources and additional 4% per enemy hit. So hitting 3 people would give 15 + 4 + 4 so 23%.

Been nice for rune focus to be a root, is doesn't go away if used and anyone who walks into it will be rooted.

I don't feel like the resources are too high considering it's bottom-of-the-barrel damage. It's meant to keep the fight going, not end it

Also, I need to edit my Rune Focus description to reduce it's duration to 4 seconds. Since we get the buffs and it's morphs on the fly now, there's no reason to leave it on the ground for as long.

Don't forget next patch radical is getting changed so it does an extra 66% initial hit dmg. If your get high enough dmg it'll do nice dmg with a good dot.

TheM0rganism · March 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

If support is the intent then why not focus on class lines that can smart-target buff players? or provide an aoe based debuff instead of targeted debuffs? For that matter why not go a step further and visualize the ability to give your own stats to other players in a channel of sorts.

If radial gave as much resources as you're looking for that means the fight would essentially have to be over in 30 seconds or less because if not the temp would have filled his ult slot again, and let's not get into gear that lowers the cost of an ultimate. It's just too high.

I can see rune focus being useful from a pve perspective, perhaps blocks npc and slows players for X seconds with irresistible debuff?

Regarding the first part...huh?

Again, when it comes to Radial, in a 1v1 situation, you're not really getting that much (~3k on a 30k HP tank?). It's only going to see that serious benefit when you're fighting 1 v 4+. And by that point, you're in need of those resources. I've tried other computations (i.e. 10% + 4% per enemy hit), and none scaled as well in 1 v X situations as this.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · March 2016

some great ideas but all together that would be op for sure.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheM0rganism wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I like the general idea's though a few may need adjusting, your radical sweep would be better than the dk's passive

How about for radical, on use gain 15% of resources and additional 4% per enemy hit. So hitting 3 people would give 15 + 4 + 4 so 23%.

Been nice for rune focus to be a root, is doesn't go away if used and anyone who walks into it will be rooted.

I don't feel like the resources are too high considering it's bottom-of-the-barrel damage. It's meant to keep the fight going, not end it

Also, I need to edit my Rune Focus description to reduce it's duration to 4 seconds. Since we get the buffs and it's morphs on the fly now, there's no reason to leave it on the ground for as long.

Don't forget next patch radical is getting changed so it does an extra 66% initial hit dmg. If your get high enough dmg it'll do nice dmg with a good dot.

even when doubling the damage on cresent sweep its still lackluster, dawnbreaker is only 25 more and it hits way harder still.
the skill needs a cc component, especially seeing that we have crap cc. give it an aoe CC and now we are talking. that amount of resources back is way over the top op, but id love it if i had it lol

TheM0rganism · March 2016

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

some great ideas but all together that would be op for sure.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheM0rganism wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I like the general idea's though a few may need adjusting, your radical sweep would be better than the dk's passive

How about for radical, on use gain 15% of resources and additional 4% per enemy hit. So hitting 3 people would give 15 + 4 + 4 so 23%.

Been nice for rune focus to be a root, is doesn't go away if used and anyone who walks into it will be rooted.

I don't feel like the resources are too high considering it's bottom-of-the-barrel damage. It's meant to keep the fight going, not end it

Also, I need to edit my Rune Focus description to reduce it's duration to 4 seconds. Since we get the buffs and it's morphs on the fly now, there's no reason to leave it on the ground for as long.

Don't forget next patch radical is getting changed so it does an extra 66% initial hit dmg. If your get high enough dmg it'll do nice dmg with a good dot.

even when doubling the damage on cresent sweep its still lackluster, dawnbreaker is only 25 more and it hits way harder still.
the skill needs a cc component, especially seeing that we have crap cc. give it an aoe CC and now we are talking. that amount of resources back is way over the top op, but id love it if i had it lol

Exactly; the damage is completely underwhelming compared to most weapon and class skills.

But everyone seems to think this amount of resource regen is too high...compared to what? On a tanking character that would give somewhere in the region of 16k health back on Ult use.

Compare that to the spammable 20k shield I have to fight against everyday in cyrodil, and I really can't understand where ya'll are coming from. You can only get that high of a return against SIX OPPONENTS.

Essiaga · March 2016

TheM0rganism wrote: »

Radiant Aura (Morph of Restoring Aura)
On cast, all alies within the radius of the aura will return 2% health and 1% magika & stamina for every damaging move for 10 seconds. Does not apply to DoTs. This effect is DOUBLED for the caster.

Puncturing Strikes and Radiant Destruction are considered DoTs. I think Backlash and TD are considered DoTs as well. over half our damage skills would be excused.

Maybe initiation of spell would be less limiting.

TheM0rganism · March 2016

Essiaga wrote: »

TheM0rganism wrote: »

Radiant Aura (Morph of Restoring Aura)
On cast, all alies within the radius of the aura will return 2% health and 1% magika & stamina for every damaging move for 10 seconds. Does not apply to DoTs. This effect is DOUBLED for the caster.

Puncturing Strikes and Radiant Destruction are considered DoTs. I think Backlash and TD are considered DoTs as well. over half our damage skills would be excused.

Maybe initiation of spell would be less limiting.

LA/HA weaving, Sun Shield pops, Shards initial hit, Solar Flare, Sun Fire initial hit, Javelin, Focused Charge; not to mention most weapon skills.

As much as I would love to see Templars reach OP status, spamming jabs annoys me as much as anything. This was pretty much designed to flesh out a rotation, something that Templars, especially Stamplars, lack.

But you've still got a point...perhaps like the Engine Guardian proc; "10% on ability cast". But I would rather have a smaller % on a consistent basis for a regen mechanic.

Essiaga · March 2016

TheM0rganism wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

TheM0rganism wrote: »

Radiant Aura (Morph of Restoring Aura)
On cast, all alies within the radius of the aura will return 2% health and 1% magika & stamina for every damaging move for 10 seconds. Does not apply to DoTs. This effect is DOUBLED for the caster.

Puncturing Strikes and Radiant Destruction are considered DoTs. I think Backlash and TD are considered DoTs as well. over half our damage skills would be excused.

Maybe initiation of spell would be less limiting.

LA/HA weaving, Sun Shield pops, Shards initial hit, Solar Flare, Sun Fire initial hit, Javelin, Focused Charge; not to mention most weapon skills.

As much as I would love to see Templars reach OP status, spamming jabs annoys me as much as anything. This was pretty much designed to flesh out a rotation, something that Templars, especially Stamplars, lack.

But you've still got a point...perhaps like the Engine Guardian proc; "10% on ability cast". But I would rather have a smaller % on a consistent basis for a regen mechanic.

I don't think having it on activation would make it OP. Our channels, cast times, and gap closers need for distance would limit it.

Imagine Jabs doesn't allow regen but Steel Tornado does. DOTs and AOE would make regen on damage tick really OP, so limiting it to the casting of a harmful spell or weapon skill (rather then a each time damage is done or a chance on damage done, etc) would allow it to be useful on all damage abilities, but not to OP.

In PVP some might only have 3 damage skills up. Jabs, RD, TP ... only 1 of which would gain the regen and it would require distance. The rest of the skills would be heals/mitigation/buffs etc.

I'd like to see Radiant Ward absorb damage and turn it into resources instead of damaging on activation. That way tanks don't have to be super offensive to regen with your proposed change to Aura (which is similar to a suggestion I made and a passive the Templar used to have.)

AfkNinja · March 2016

Essiaga wrote: »

I'd like to see Radiant Ward absorb damage and turn it into resources instead of damaging on activation. That way tanks don't have to be super offensive to regen with your proposed change to Aura (which is similar to a suggestion I made and a passive the Templar used to have.)

Hell yes!

TheM0rganism · March 2016

Essiaga wrote: »

TheM0rganism wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

TheM0rganism wrote: »

Radiant Aura (Morph of Restoring Aura)
On cast, all alies within the radius of the aura will return 2% health and 1% magika & stamina for every damaging move for 10 seconds. Does not apply to DoTs. This effect is DOUBLED for the caster.

Puncturing Strikes and Radiant Destruction are considered DoTs. I think Backlash and TD are considered DoTs as well. over half our damage skills would be excused.

Maybe initiation of spell would be less limiting.

LA/HA weaving, Sun Shield pops, Shards initial hit, Solar Flare, Sun Fire initial hit, Javelin, Focused Charge; not to mention most weapon skills.

As much as I would love to see Templars reach OP status, spamming jabs annoys me as much as anything. This was pretty much designed to flesh out a rotation, something that Templars, especially Stamplars, lack.

But you've still got a point...perhaps like the Engine Guardian proc; "10% on ability cast". But I would rather have a smaller % on a consistent basis for a regen mechanic.

I'd like to see Radiant Ward absorb damage and turn it into resources instead of damaging on activation. That way tanks don't have to be super offensive to regen with your proposed change to Aura (which is similar to a suggestion I made and a passive the Templar used to have.)

1) F-ing brilliant
2) Which passive did the templar used to have that was like that?

AfkNinja · March 2016

TheM0rganism wrote: »

1) F-ing brilliant
2) Which passive did the templar used to have that was like that?

Restoring spirit used to grant resources back on skill activation. It was changed to 2/4 % cost discount instead.

TheM0rganism · March 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

TheM0rganism wrote: »

1) F-ing brilliant
2) Which passive did the templar used to have that was like that?

Restoring spirit used to grant resources back on skill activation. It was changed to 2/4 % cost discount instead.

Restoring Spirit: Gain X% Magicka when activating an ability.
Honestly...that's a pretty half-baked passive. I'd rather have Restoring Spirit 2.0, but still...yeeeesh.

CyrusArya · March 2016

I recently rolled a magicka templar, and after about a week on it, I think the templar QQ crowd does too much. There are/were some very valid grievances, like the toppling bug. But reading some of the commentary by templars, you'd think the class is just so under par and dysfunctional. And that's really not the case at all. So far, the class looks very strong in this patch all around with mobility being the only major concern I feel so far (and that only applies to magicka). Built right, templars can have incredible damage, sustain, and survivability...just like every class in the game.

Pretty much every single suggestion you have here is over the top. Your idea about sweep in particular lets me know you don't really have a clue about balance. The templars like you really just need to L2P and drop this victim card. If you spent more time working on your build and less time pandering for sympathy and attention, I promise you'll see soon enough how strong this class is/can be right now.

AfkNinja · March 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

I recently rolled a magicka templar, and after about a week on it, I think the templar QQ crowd does too much. There are/were some very valid grievances, like the toppling bug. But reading some of the commentary by templars, you'd think the class is just so under par and dysfunctional. And that's really not the case at all. So far, the class looks very strong in this patch all around with mobility being the only major concern I feel so far (and that only applies to magicka). Built right, templars can have incredible damage, sustain, and survivability...just like every class in the game.

Pretty much every single suggestion you have here is over the top. Your idea about sweep in particular lets me know you don't really have a clue about balance. The templars like you really just need to L2P and drop this victim card. If you spent more time working on your build and less time pandering for sympathy and attention, I promise you'll see soon enough how strong this class is/can be right now.

You spent a week on it, that hardly qualifies you to review all our issues. However keep in mind almost all of this feedback was about Imperial City Templar, not Thieves Guild Templar. TG fixed SOME of our issues, ignored most and they slapped a dmg buff on Dark Flare that NO ONE asked for and is likely to get reversed. It should be expected we would be upset.

Spend two years on that templar and watch patch after patch of other classes getting fixes and Templar getting nerfs and you might react the same way we are.

Edit: Also resorting to insults and "LTP" comments get this discussion nowhere.

Pepper8Jack · March 2016

Love every bit of it. My templar would actually be legitimately interesting to play in non-dungeon settings finally.

Only thing I'm not on board with is the choice of magicka or stamina return between morphs of spear shards. Some days I'm grouped with 3 stam builds, others with 3 magicka builds so I'd rather not have to have a useless skill half of my dungeon runs. I'd prefer to see luminous get both stam and magic regen and blazing get additional damage.

Other than that these are all very unique and interesting choices and I sincerely hope even 10% of this list makes it into the game someday.

CyrusArya · March 2016

[/quote]

You spent a week on it, that hardly qualifies you to review all our issues. However keep in mind almost all of this feedback was about Imperial City Templar, not Thieves Guild Templar. TG fixed SOME of our issues, ignored most and they slapped a dmg buff on Dark Flare that NO ONE asked for and is likely to get reversed. It should be expected we would be upset.

Spend two years on that templar and watch patch after patch of other classes getting fixes and Templar getting nerfs and you might react the same way we are.

Edit: Also resorting to insults and "LTP" comments get this discussion nowhere.[/quote]

Yea, I never claimed to be qualified to review the entire classes issues. Just that after only a week playing the class, I can see through the QQ crowd's BS. The class may not be perfect, but posts like this one operate on the premise that it is fundamentally gimped and in need of a complete rehaul with massive buffs across the board to be viable and competitive. And if you believe that premise to be true, then the issue is completely L2P. You act like the dark flare buff was the only thing you got and templars were completely ignored this patch. If that's your honest assessment as a veteran templar, that's just sad that you understand your own class so little. It should be expected that you're upset? Maybe there's a correlation between the type of people who main templar and the type of people who are easily upset. And I say that with no disrespect to the templars who play the class exceptionally well. I have much respect for them- because they never cry about it! They just know how to play their class, they stuck by it through all the flaws, and now they will really enjoy the class when it's good. The type to constantly QQ will always blame their shortcomings on perceived flaws of the class.

CyrusArya · March 2016

@AfkNinja Yea, I never claimed to be qualified to review the entire classes issues. Just that after only a week playing the class, I can see through the QQ crowd's BS. The class may not be perfect, but posts like this one operate on the premise that it is fundamentally gimped and in need of a complete rehaul with massive buffs across the board to be viable and competitive. And if you believe that premise to be true, then the issue is completely L2P. You act like the dark flare buff was the only thing you got and templars were completely ignored this patch. If that's your honest assessment as a veteran templar, that's just sad that you understand your own class so little. It should be expected that you're upset? Maybe there's a correlation between the type of people who main templar and the type of people who are easily upset. And I say that with no disrespect to the templars who play the class exceptionally well. I have much respect for them- because they never cry about it! They just know how to play their class, they stuck by it through all the flaws, and now they will really enjoy the class when it's good. The type to constantly QQ will always blame their shortcomings on perceived flaws of the class, game, this skill, that skillx,y,z.

AfkNinja · March 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

@AfkNinja Yea, I never claimed to be qualified to review the entire classes issues. Just that after only a week playing the class, I can see through the QQ crowd's BS. The class may not be perfect, but posts like this one operate on the premise that it is fundamentally gimped and in need of a complete rehaul with massive buffs across the board to be viable and competitive. And if you believe that premise to be true, then the issue is completely L2P. You act like the dark flare buff was the only thing you got and templars were completely ignored this patch. If that's your honest assessment as a veteran templar, that's just sad that you understand your own class so little. It should be expected that you're upset? Maybe there's a correlation between the type of people who main templar and the type of people who are easily upset. And I say that with no disrespect to the templars who play the class exceptionally well. I have much respect for them- because they never cry about it! They just know how to play their class, they stuck by it through all the flaws, and now they will really enjoy the class when it's good. The type to constantly QQ will always blame their shortcomings on perceived flaws of the class, game, this skill, that skillx,y,z.

So you admit you have limited experience and shouldn't even be commenting on this and yet you feel the need to tell us you're better at Templar after playing it for a weak? Templar should not have to wait till vet 16 and full gold gear min/maxed to compete.

You do realize player skill plays a factor in your experience yes? You realize your own skill at the game can make up for shortcomings yes? Do you realize Templar has the worst sustain in the game but rather high skill costs? Do you realize Templar's are missing access to many PRIMARY stat buffs that other classes have built into their class skills? You realize Templar has NO AOE CC OR ROOTS IN CLASS?

I am a Stamina Templar, other than CP changes the only thing Stamplar got in this patch is Major Mending so our stamina heals will finally possibly keep up with others. Most of the changes to Magic Templar were bug fixes or they made the skills worse. Toppling Charge is still bugged. Eclipse still sucks. Blazing/radiant shield still sucks. They nerfed Breath of Life, Purifying Ritual, puncturing sweeps and our Rez speed abilities and what we got in return was Major Mending, a range buff to Javelin and 12% more DF damage that like I said wasn't asked for and is likely to get reverted.

I understand you love your Templar, and that's good. But please do not try to talk down to people when you are not informed of the full situation. If you want to educate yourself go read the 80 pages of Templar feedback.

Yes some of us are melodramatic and QQ a bit but it's not from one patch man, it's from two years of nerfs. I have hope for the next patch, there is some chance Templar gets a real review next patch. But c'mon can you really read the patch notes for the other classes and NOT get more excited than the notes for Templar? It's like this every patch, we just wanna get excited too.

P.S. And we are STILL stuck standing still in a meta the relies on mobility.

TheM0rganism · March 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

Yea, I never claimed to be qualified to review the entire classes issues. Just that after only a week playing the class, I can see through the QQ crowd's BS. The class may not be perfect, but posts like this one operate on the premise that it is fundamentally gimped and in need of a complete rehaul with massive buffs across the board to be viable and competitive. And if you believe that premise to be true, then the issue is completely L2P. You act like the dark flare buff was the only thing you got and templars were completely ignored this patch. If that's your honest assessment as a veteran templar, that's just sad that you understand your own class so little. It should be expected that you're upset? Maybe there's a correlation between the type of people who main templar and the type of people who are easily upset. And I say that with no disrespect to the templars who play the class exceptionally well. I have much respect for them- because they never cry about it! They just know how to play their class, they stuck by it through all the flaws, and now they will really enjoy the class when it's good. The type to constantly QQ will always blame their shortcomings on perceived flaws of the class.

1) You played Magika Templar, not stamina.
2) You didn't attempt vDSA, ICP, WGT or a Trial?
3) Did you PvP extensively through Cyrodill or sewer runs?

Running through Solo content or Spindelclutch tells you nothing about any of the classes. Only at the highest level of play (Cyrodill, IC, ICP/WGT, Trials, vMA) do you see the drastic drop-off in viability for Templars. TG's makes it so Templars can't do ANYTHING better than the other three classes.

I main tank for three separate guilds in every single Trial, vDSA and vDungeon; with speed and no-death runs all the way down. I've learned to overcome the class shortcomings just fine but can't stand the constant waves of buffs to everyone but us patch after patch. Whenever I switch over to DPS gear to fill in, it's nauseating to see how easy it is for NBs and DKs to handle the dungeon mechanics with one-button-to-win builds; while I have to juggle a half dozen buffs to compensate for the classes infamous lack of AOE cc, mobility, and self-heals. Just look at the most utilized vDSA strategy for the Battlemaster; the tank soloing the boss through the first wave. Up until I gained enough Champion points to develop the healing/cost reduction to do that, I had to strategize the most insane silver-leash-tactics you've never heard of. No one even wants to attempt my strat because they've all grown so accustomed to NBs and DKs exploiting the dungeons mechanics.

You infer a certain type of player is drawn to the class when it's very much the opposite; ZOS's well-known treatment of the class has disillusioned the player-base to the point where they've almost all re-rolled the other three classes, leaving a group of down-trodden victims. And that's a fact across all the platforms; Templars are the least represented class within the player population. Like @AFKninja mentioned, everyone (ZOS, especially) looks at a handful of streamers with BIS, gold'd gear and 501 CP and thinks: "Templars are fine."

Try stamplar-tanking Sanctum, kiddo. You don't know a thing about this class.