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Stop the reviving game!

  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
    milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yusuf wrote: »
    What, so that we can all play horse-simulator? No thank you :)
    Wow. I didn't realize our forum had so many bigoted horse simulatorcists...
  • Hexys
    Hexys
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    NBrookus wrote: »
    Hexys wrote: »
    There are guilds out there that actually have players assigned to do really fast rezzing, I mean, are you going in PvP expecting to die and use this in your advantage towards an end to win a fight without any honour? Let's not forget the unbalances between the numbersgame.

    But again it comes down to Competitive VS. Casual.

    So because they don't have the same playstyle as you, they are "Casual" and "without any honor?"

    Guilds that assign teammates to specific tasks are not hacking, exploiting or cheating in any way - they are utilizing individual player strengths to achieve an objective. I'm going to guess they call that being "Competitive."

    Reviving someone is a players strength? Seems someone in the group has failed to keep your players alive, dead = loss. Every playstyle is fine for me, but at this moment creating big zergs is horrible because nobody likes to play with very high latency. This is the reason I want to stay +/- 12 as a guild myself at least for now!
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  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    ✭✭✭
    Faster rez is potentially a combination of class choice, armor choice, AP earned and skillpoints invested. So yes, a player can have that as a strength versus another player. Just like having a heavy armor DK would probably not be your first choice as scroll carrier.

    I feel the upcoming changes are adequate to prevent insta-rezzing, without unnecessarily penalizing newer players who tend to die a lot while learning. Any sort of rez sickness mechanic nearly condemns them to a quick second death. While dying can be educational, getting one shot before you've taken another step is not. It's just frustrating. Adding barriers to entry to new players is not a good way to keep the game healthy.

    Plus it would have a major impact on PvE trials and dungeons. Sure, ZOS could limit it to Battle Spirit, just like they could have limited roll dodge fatigue, stam regen while blocking and exponential streak costs, but chose the lazy way instead.

    PC NA
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  • Galalin
    Galalin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This game is so out of balance it would need a ton of adjustment to really fix the issue.. time to kill being one of them they will never get right and i think is the reason they have allowed rezzes to be like this... die in 1-2 sec and rez in 1-2 sec... this will not be fixed anytime soon without major backlash from the player base so its not worth going into my opinions for fixes because it just won't happen
    DK SCRUB OUT
  • The-Baconator
    The-Baconator
    ✭✭✭✭
    There's a fine line between being fair to those who make mistakes or just simply find themselves experiencing the wrath of the fall damage unicorn and allowing completely brainless game play. I can try to defend a keep 12v60 and score literally hundreds of kills and still loose the keep because we can't feasibly stop people from rezzing. Death doesn't have to mean a restart of horse simulator 2016, but I think most would agree it should mean something.

    Honestly I feel like the best solution would still allow for the occasional death while making repeated rezzing in a short window problematic. A simple fix would be to add in a sort of "rez fatigue" much like the bolt or roll dodge cost stacking that would last approximately 1-2 minutes after being rezzed. For example:

    1st rez= 1 second
    2nd rez=2 seconds
    3rd rez= 4 seconds

    In this instance the rez bonuses of the Templar\support\kags maintains their usefulness while making sustained zombie rezzing a futile strategy. This would still allow for strategic or mass rezzes in keep fights, people will just have to not die 10 times in a two minute window if they actually want to continue participating in the action. Also even if this change is less friendly toward the player who dies a lot (what was mentioned as casuals or the majority previously in the thread) I would argue if they're dying enough to where this seriously impacts them negatively, they probably aren't have very much fun in the first place.
    First PS4 NA Grand Overlord, Stormproof, and Flawless Conqueror.
    Potato Lord of Atrocity
  • The-Baconator
    The-Baconator
    ✭✭✭✭
    NBrookus wrote: »
    Hexys wrote: »
    There are guilds out there that actually have players assigned to do really fast rezzing, I mean, are you going in PvP expecting to die and use this in your advantage towards an end to win a fight without any honour? Let's not forget the unbalances between the numbersgame.

    But again it comes down to Competitive VS. Casual.

    So because they don't have the same playstyle as you, they are "Casual" and "without any honor?"

    Guilds that assign teammates to specific tasks are not hacking, exploiting or cheating in any way - they are utilizing individual player strengths to achieve an objective. I'm going to guess they call that being "Competitive."

    There's a difference between assigning someone to prioritize rezzing and leaving repeated death with literally an insignificant penalty for larger groups. It tilts the balance even further in favor of numbers.
    First PS4 NA Grand Overlord, Stormproof, and Flawless Conqueror.
    Potato Lord of Atrocity
  • RAGUNAnoOne
    RAGUNAnoOne
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Edited by RAGUNAnoOne on February 26, 2016 2:08AM
    PS4 NA
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  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Magna Firebreath - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Rulanir - Altmer Templar
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
  • RAGUNAnoOne
    RAGUNAnoOne
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"
    Edited by RAGUNAnoOne on February 26, 2016 4:36PM
    PS4 NA
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  • Morostyle
    Morostyle
    ✭✭✭✭
    Suggestion @Morostyle - GIVE ME HARDCORE CAMPAIGN - NO REVIVES
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  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Magna Firebreath - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Rulanir - Altmer Templar
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you add a cool down to dieing,you'll end up with bank sitting and rage quitting.
    Raising floors and lower ceilings by zos standards has created an iron maiden.
    No matter how well you played,when the game is over,the king and pawn go back in the same box.
    Be careful what you ask for from zo$, you always get punished.
    Call me toxic,your the one being slowly poisoned by greed.
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mojmir wrote: »
    If you add a cool down to dieing,you'll end up with bank sitting and rage quitting.

    The first death/res can be same as it is now. After that there should be severe consiquenses for dying.

    Maybe this will encourage players to run tankier builds instead of all the glass canon builds we have today.
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Magna Firebreath - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Rulanir - Altmer Templar
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mojmir wrote: »
    If you add a cool down to dieing,you'll end up with bank sitting and rage quitting.

    The first death/res can be same as it is now. After that there should be severe consiquenses for dying.

    Maybe this will encourage players to run tankier builds instead of all the glass canon builds we have today.

    ok but what about dying to things out of your control? lag,glitches,CTD,peer pressure? :P

    Raising floors and lower ceilings by zos standards has created an iron maiden.
    No matter how well you played,when the game is over,the king and pawn go back in the same box.
    Be careful what you ask for from zo$, you always get punished.
    Call me toxic,your the one being slowly poisoned by greed.
  • Cody
    Cody
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.

    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler

    this is actually a fantastic idea.
  • RAGUNAnoOne
    RAGUNAnoOne
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    So practically disable a passive for a class that is already having mechanics being changed to make them *** in the meta but yeah it is okay as long as it is PvP only. No the best way to go about this is to have to sacrifice something to counter a valid tactic like everything else in the game.
    PS4 NA
    Argonian Master Race

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    Support Tail armor and tail ribbons: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/236333/concept-tail-armor-for-beast-races#latest
    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246134/request-dyeable-tail-ribbons
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    So practically disable a passive for a class that is already having mechanics being changed to make them *** in the meta but yeah it is okay as long as it is PvP only. No the best way to go about this is to have to sacrifice something to counter a valid tactic like everything else in the game.

    Ressing is not a templar only ability, issues with the class should not force fights in Cryodiil to become impossible to win because people can be ressed 10 times in a row.

    Right now there's no real punishment for dying when you have a couple allies around, this should not be the case in active pvp fights.
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Magna Firebreath - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Rulanir - Altmer Templar
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
  • Alorier
    Alorier
    ✭✭✭✭
    Wow all I can say is let Zos fix PvP before peeps come up with hair Brain ideas that will probably ruin the game for a fair chunk of players , all I can see with this idea is people running bigger groups as there be Afraid of the penalty if they die
    Vr16 Don't laugh Nord Dk ( stamina) Tank Retired
    Vr16 Breton Templar ( Magicka ) Healer Retired
    Vr16 Breton Nightblade ( Magicka )
    Vr16 Highelf Sorc ( Magicka )
    Lvl 30 Imperial Templar ( Stamina )
  • Junipus
    Junipus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.
    The Legendary Nothing
  • The-Baconator
    The-Baconator
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    So why is it the job of the 12 man group to L2P rather than the group of +60 that averages what ends up being 3-5 pointless deaths every fight but wins merely because they have reached the point where they can not conceivably loose? I find the amount of people defending the brain dead game play of rezzing continuously and without penalty absolute astounding. The smaller group in a 12v24\8v16 against an organized group or a 8v30\12v50 against pugs already has next to no room for mistakes when the larger group can make plenty. Members of the larger group shouldn't have the advantage of a reliable reset button that can be used over and over again.

    If they should, then I'll just start running with 24 at all times, stacking with my pug zerg, and rolfstomping everything in my way because how could I conceivably lose when I always outnumber my opponent and I can never completely wipe?
    First PS4 NA Grand Overlord, Stormproof, and Flawless Conqueror.
    Potato Lord of Atrocity
  • RAGUNAnoOne
    RAGUNAnoOne
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    So why is it the job of the 12 man group to L2P rather than the group of +60 that averages what ends up being 3-5 pointless deaths every fight but wins merely because they have reached the point where they can not conceivably loose? I find the amount of people defending the brain dead game play of rezzing continuously and without penalty absolute astounding. The smaller group in a 12v24\8v16 against an organized group or a 8v30\12v50 against pugs already has next to no room for mistakes when the larger group can make plenty. Members of the larger group shouldn't have the advantage of a reliable reset button that can be used over and over again.

    If they should, then I'll just start running with 24 at all times, stacking with my pug zerg, and rolfstomping everything in my way because how could I conceivably lose when I always outnumber my opponent and I can never completely wipe?

    LOL you know that people are already doing this and will continue to do so regardless of what penalties are enforced. Admit it this games PvP was built around zerging Yes I hate zerging with a passion but just by looking at the skills and advantages of having 24vs12 you can't deny it..
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  • Cody
    Cody
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    So why is it the job of the 12 man group to L2P rather than the group of +60 that averages what ends up being 3-5 pointless deaths every fight but wins merely because they have reached the point where they can not conceivably loose? I find the amount of people defending the brain dead game play of rezzing continuously and without penalty absolute astounding. The smaller group in a 12v24\8v16 against an organized group or a 8v30\12v50 against pugs already has next to no room for mistakes when the larger group can make plenty. Members of the larger group shouldn't have the advantage of a reliable reset button that can be used over and over again.

    If they should, then I'll just start running with 24 at all times, stacking with my pug zerg, and rolfstomping everything in my way because how could I conceivably lose when I always outnumber my opponent and I can never completely wipe?

    Of course a group of 12 is going to be decimated by a group of 24 on an open field, that is how it is supposed to work. A group of 12 people should be a spec ops team, not a frontal assault team. If you want to take on larger groups then get more people in your group. "because how could i conceivably lose"? by attacking a keep and getting decimated by screwing up with purge or rapids use. I have seen it MANY a time over the last two years, assault teams with 30+ people being destroyed by half their number when trying to take a keep because they screwed something up. I have even been in groups that have TAKEN keeps from twice their number. it is very possible to defeat groups greater than your group's number.

    If you want a game where one player can solo the entire enemy team, play a COD game. I am not being sarcastic, I really mean it; if you want to kill 3 times your number in open battle, go play a game like Call of Duty, as ESO is not designed as such and likely never will be.
    Edited by Cody on February 28, 2016 11:22PM
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    1. The decent latency made it possible to quickly wipe groups and not everyone of the same alliance stacked into the same keep, this seems really popular in Azura EU lately.

    2. Dynamic ult gen was very helpful, I loved my Streak so much on my sorc back then...

    3. It also took people a lot longer back then to res someone because most players didnt have Alliance War passives unlocked and/or Kagrenacs to boost their res speed.

    The point of this thread (named: stop the reviving game) is that the meaning of dying is completely lost as long as you have enough allies around. And the question has been raised why this is the case and how this can be changed.

    Shouldnt players be rewarded for staying alive and killing other players?
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  • eliisra
    eliisra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    1. The decent latency made it possible to quickly wipe groups and not everyone of the same alliance stacked into the same keep, this seems really popular in Azura EU lately.

    2. Dynamic ult gen was very helpful, I loved my Streak so much on my sorc back then...

    3. It also took people a lot longer back then to res someone because most players didnt have Alliance War passives unlocked and/or Kagrenacs to boost their res speed.

    The point of this thread (named: stop the reviving game) is that the meaning of dying is completely lost as long as you have enough allies around. And the question has been raised why this is the case and how this can be changed.

    Shouldnt players be rewarded for staying alive and killing other players?

    Yeah was rarely a scenario back than where you had entire factions stacking in one keep. Not even during scrolls or last emp keep fights. The fights where more spread out.

    Today there's only like 1-2 big cross swords on the map and everyone goes there automatically and lag is unbearable. When people die they're revived again in a few seconds so population density in the area isn't going down any time soon.

    But old days with camps you had cross swords with small, medium to large fights all over the map. When player or a group wiped they didn't automatically go back to the laggiest fight, they would often pick another forward camp and respawn there, checking if that PvP was any good.

    Wasn't only camps of course, max numbers didn't mean auto win back in 1.4. Like you say dynamic ulti and ofc prior to all kinda of ZoS nerfs, you had more individually strong builds.

    Running 24-man raids or more wasn't mandatory to succeed for less organized players. Like today, to do PvP with lesser numbers, the skill cap had gone through the roof. You need strict army Führer discipline(isn't for everyone lol), perfect movement, perfect builds and all the right skills and you still have the odds against you. Back than I could go with any 8 guys from my guild and take a less fortified keep, outposts and also find some good PvP.

    Trying that today I get run over by 48 people and just blah lagged dead. If you manage to kill anyone, they're back up pretty much instantly.
  • The-Baconator
    The-Baconator
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    So why is it the job of the 12 man group to L2P rather than the group of +60 that averages what ends up being 3-5 pointless deaths every fight but wins merely because they have reached the point where they can not conceivably loose? I find the amount of people defending the brain dead game play of rezzing continuously and without penalty absolute astounding. The smaller group in a 12v24\8v16 against an organized group or a 8v30\12v50 against pugs already has next to no room for mistakes when the larger group can make plenty. Members of the larger group shouldn't have the advantage of a reliable reset button that can be used over and over again.

    If they should, then I'll just start running with 24 at all times, stacking with my pug zerg, and rolfstomping everything in my way because how could I conceivably lose when I always outnumber my opponent and I can never completely wipe?

    LOL you know that people are already doing this and will continue to do so regardless of what penalties are enforced. Admit it this games PvP was built around zerging Yes I hate zerging with a passion but just by looking at the skills and advantages of having 24vs12 you can't deny it..

    So you're saying people are stacking absurd numbers to take advantage of mechanics that favor stacking and outnumbering your opponent, and that this isn't good pvp. BUT we shouldn't do anything to change the mechanics that promote this type of gameplay? Just because the game provides advantages to the side with more numbers doesn't mean there should be a literal ceiling on what a smaller group can fight ONLY because you cannot possibly stop people from rezzing. If you cannot beat someone with a quarter of your numbers without literally force flipping the flags with constant zombie rezzing, you should have to go back to the drawing board and L2P.
    Cody wrote: »
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    So why is it the job of the 12 man group to L2P rather than the group of +60 that averages what ends up being 3-5 pointless deaths every fight but wins merely because they have reached the point where they can not conceivably loose? I find the amount of people defending the brain dead game play of rezzing continuously and without penalty absolute astounding. The smaller group in a 12v24\8v16 against an organized group or a 8v30\12v50 against pugs already has next to no room for mistakes when the larger group can make plenty. Members of the larger group shouldn't have the advantage of a reliable reset button that can be used over and over again.

    If they should, then I'll just start running with 24 at all times, stacking with my pug zerg, and rolfstomping everything in my way because how could I conceivably lose when I always outnumber my opponent and I can never completely wipe?

    Of course a group of 12 is going to be decimated by a group of 24 on an open field, that is how it is supposed to work. A group of 12 people should be a spec ops team, not a frontal assault team. If you want to take on larger groups then get more people in your group. "because how could i conceivably lose"? by attacking a keep and getting decimated by screwing up with purge or rapids use. I have seen it MANY a time over the last two years, assault teams with 30+ people being destroyed by half their number when trying to take a keep because they screwed something up. I have even been in groups that have TAKEN keeps from twice their number. it is very possible to defeat groups greater than your group's number.

    If you want a game where one player can solo the entire enemy team, play a COD game. I am not being sarcastic, I really mean it; if you want to kill 3 times your number in open battle, go play a game like Call of Duty, as ESO is not designed as such and likely never will be.

    I don't know what "good" groups you've ran in but actual top guilds DECIMATE 24 baddies open field with 12, that isn't where zombie rezzing becomes a major factor. I'm talking about an ACTUAL 12v+40 not a my guild plus 10-20 pugs, that probably aren't pugs, versus their 40. There are certain guilds on my server that have fielded 4 full groups at once. On one occasional when my group wiped to this guild, we made roughly 16k ap throughout the fight ( I'm not sure how many kills because I'm on console ) but we lost simply because we couldn't keep enough of them dead for a clean wipe. They won because they could die +5 times each without penalty which is something I think most would acknowledge as being a bad thing, especially when this advantage is exclusive to the side with an absurd numerical advantage. And to your comment on defending while outnumbered, defending at 2:1 odds is faceroll easy against average players if you actually know what your doing. I'm also not arguing that I alone should be able to 1v20 a bunch of plebs that think spamming rapid strikes in a 12v60 is ok, and that's coming from someone who will happily be using cold stone trebs next patch as emp with vicious death. What I want is repeated death to actually have a penalty of some kind when you severely outnumber your opponent, as opposed to right now where death is quite literally meaningless after a certain enemy:ally ratio.
    Edited by The-Baconator on February 29, 2016 8:47PM
    First PS4 NA Grand Overlord, Stormproof, and Flawless Conqueror.
    Potato Lord of Atrocity
  • RAGUNAnoOne
    RAGUNAnoOne
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    So why is it the job of the 12 man group to L2P rather than the group of +60 that averages what ends up being 3-5 pointless deaths every fight but wins merely because they have reached the point where they can not conceivably loose? I find the amount of people defending the brain dead game play of rezzing continuously and without penalty absolute astounding. The smaller group in a 12v24\8v16 against an organized group or a 8v30\12v50 against pugs already has next to no room for mistakes when the larger group can make plenty. Members of the larger group shouldn't have the advantage of a reliable reset button that can be used over and over again.

    If they should, then I'll just start running with 24 at all times, stacking with my pug zerg, and rolfstomping everything in my way because how could I conceivably lose when I always outnumber my opponent and I can never completely wipe?

    LOL you know that people are already doing this and will continue to do so regardless of what penalties are enforced. Admit it this games PvP was built around zerging Yes I hate zerging with a passion but just by looking at the skills and advantages of having 24vs12 you can't deny it..

    So you're saying people are stacking absurd numbers to take advantage of mechanics that favor stacking and outnumbering your opponent, and that this isn't good pvp. BUT we shouldn't do anything to change the mechanics that promote this type of gameplay? Just because the game provides advantages to the side with more numbers doesn't mean there should be a literal ceiling on what a smaller group can fight ONLY because you cannot possibly stop people from rezzing. If you cannot beat someone with a quarter of your numbers without literally force flipping the flags with constant zombie rezzing, you should have to go back to the drawing board and L2P.
    Cody wrote: »
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    So why is it the job of the 12 man group to L2P rather than the group of +60 that averages what ends up being 3-5 pointless deaths every fight but wins merely because they have reached the point where they can not conceivably loose? I find the amount of people defending the brain dead game play of rezzing continuously and without penalty absolute astounding. The smaller group in a 12v24\8v16 against an organized group or a 8v30\12v50 against pugs already has next to no room for mistakes when the larger group can make plenty. Members of the larger group shouldn't have the advantage of a reliable reset button that can be used over and over again.

    If they should, then I'll just start running with 24 at all times, stacking with my pug zerg, and rolfstomping everything in my way because how could I conceivably lose when I always outnumber my opponent and I can never completely wipe?

    Of course a group of 12 is going to be decimated by a group of 24 on an open field, that is how it is supposed to work. A group of 12 people should be a spec ops team, not a frontal assault team. If you want to take on larger groups then get more people in your group. "because how could i conceivably lose"? by attacking a keep and getting decimated by screwing up with purge or rapids use. I have seen it MANY a time over the last two years, assault teams with 30+ people being destroyed by half their number when trying to take a keep because they screwed something up. I have even been in groups that have TAKEN keeps from twice their number. it is very possible to defeat groups greater than your group's number.

    If you want a game where one player can solo the entire enemy team, play a COD game. I am not being sarcastic, I really mean it; if you want to kill 3 times your number in open battle, go play a game like Call of Duty, as ESO is not designed as such and likely never will be.

    I don't know what "good" groups you've ran in but actual top guilds DECIMATE 24 baddies open field with 12, that isn't where zombie rezzing becomes a major factor. I'm talking about an ACTUAL 12v+40 not a my guild plus 10-20 pugs, that probably aren't pugs, versus their 40. There are certain guilds on my server that have fielded 4 full groups at once. On one occasional when my group wiped to this guild, we made roughly 16k ap throughout the fight ( I'm not sure how many kills because I'm on console ) but we lost simply because we couldn't keep enough of them dead for a clean wipe. They won because they could die +5 times each without penalty which is something I think most would acknowledge as being a bad thing, especially when this advantage is exclusive to the side with an absurd numerical advantage. And to your comment on defending while outnumbered, defending at 2:1 odds is faceroll easy against average players if you actually know what your doing. I'm also not arguing that I alone should be able to 1v20 a bunch of plebs that think spamming rapid strikes in a 12v60 is ok, and that's coming from someone who will happily be using cold stone trebs next patch as emp with vicious death. What I want is repeated death to actually have a penalty of some kind when you severely outnumber your opponent, as opposed to right now where death is quite literally meaningless after a certain enemy:ally ratio.

    Baconator if we make it so dying equals more horse simulator no matter what I bet you anything it is going to increase the zergs over promoting good play just like everything else PvP stands for, and when did I say this wasn't a problem? no need to get hostile here but I am saying the solutions presented will only aggravate the issue of huge zergs. Have fun with your vicious death when you get it I can only see the hatemail.
    Edited by RAGUNAnoOne on March 1, 2016 12:47AM
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  • Hexys
    Hexys
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't know what "good" groups you've ran in but actual top guilds DECIMATE 24 baddies open field with 12, that isn't where zombie rezzing becomes a major factor. I'm talking about an ACTUAL 12v+40 not a my guild plus 10-20 pugs, that probably aren't pugs, versus their 40. There are certain guilds on my server that have fielded 4 full groups at once. On one occasional when my group wiped to this guild, we made roughly 16k ap throughout the fight ( I'm not sure how many kills because I'm on console ) but we lost simply because we couldn't keep enough of them dead for a clean wipe. They won because they could die +5 times each without penalty which is something I think most would acknowledge as being a bad thing, especially when this advantage is exclusive to the side with an absurd numerical advantage. And to your comment on defending while outnumbered, defending at 2:1 odds is faceroll easy against average players if you actually know what your doing. I'm also not arguing that I alone should be able to 1v20 a bunch of plebs that think spamming rapid strikes in a 12v60 is ok, and that's coming from someone who will happily be using cold stone trebs next patch as emp with vicious death. What I want is repeated death to actually have a penalty of some kind when you severely outnumber your opponent, as opposed to right now where death is quite literally meaningless after a certain enemy:ally ratio.

    ^ Exactly this!
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  • Junipus
    Junipus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    So why is it the job of the 12 man group to L2P rather than the group of +60 that averages what ends up being 3-5 pointless deaths every fight but wins merely because they have reached the point where they can not conceivably loose? I find the amount of people defending the brain dead game play of rezzing continuously and without penalty absolute astounding. The smaller group in a 12v24\8v16 against an organized group or a 8v30\12v50 against pugs already has next to no room for mistakes when the larger group can make plenty. Members of the larger group shouldn't have the advantage of a reliable reset button that can be used over and over again.

    If they should, then I'll just start running with 24 at all times, stacking with my pug zerg, and rolfstomping everything in my way because how could I conceivably lose when I always outnumber my opponent and I can never completely wipe?

    LOL you know that people are already doing this and will continue to do so regardless of what penalties are enforced. Admit it this games PvP was built around zerging Yes I hate zerging with a passion but just by looking at the skills and advantages of having 24vs12 you can't deny it..

    So you're saying people are stacking absurd numbers to take advantage of mechanics that favor stacking and outnumbering your opponent, and that this isn't good pvp. BUT we shouldn't do anything to change the mechanics that promote this type of gameplay? Just because the game provides advantages to the side with more numbers doesn't mean there should be a literal ceiling on what a smaller group can fight ONLY because you cannot possibly stop people from rezzing. If you cannot beat someone with a quarter of your numbers without literally force flipping the flags with constant zombie rezzing, you should have to go back to the drawing board and L2P.
    Cody wrote: »
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    So why is it the job of the 12 man group to L2P rather than the group of +60 that averages what ends up being 3-5 pointless deaths every fight but wins merely because they have reached the point where they can not conceivably loose? I find the amount of people defending the brain dead game play of rezzing continuously and without penalty absolute astounding. The smaller group in a 12v24\8v16 against an organized group or a 8v30\12v50 against pugs already has next to no room for mistakes when the larger group can make plenty. Members of the larger group shouldn't have the advantage of a reliable reset button that can be used over and over again.

    If they should, then I'll just start running with 24 at all times, stacking with my pug zerg, and rolfstomping everything in my way because how could I conceivably lose when I always outnumber my opponent and I can never completely wipe?

    Of course a group of 12 is going to be decimated by a group of 24 on an open field, that is how it is supposed to work. A group of 12 people should be a spec ops team, not a frontal assault team. If you want to take on larger groups then get more people in your group. "because how could i conceivably lose"? by attacking a keep and getting decimated by screwing up with purge or rapids use. I have seen it MANY a time over the last two years, assault teams with 30+ people being destroyed by half their number when trying to take a keep because they screwed something up. I have even been in groups that have TAKEN keeps from twice their number. it is very possible to defeat groups greater than your group's number.

    If you want a game where one player can solo the entire enemy team, play a COD game. I am not being sarcastic, I really mean it; if you want to kill 3 times your number in open battle, go play a game like Call of Duty, as ESO is not designed as such and likely never will be.

    I don't know what "good" groups you've ran in but actual top guilds DECIMATE 24 baddies open field with 12, that isn't where zombie rezzing becomes a major factor. I'm talking about an ACTUAL 12v+40 not a my guild plus 10-20 pugs, that probably aren't pugs, versus their 40. There are certain guilds on my server that have fielded 4 full groups at once. On one occasional when my group wiped to this guild, we made roughly 16k ap throughout the fight ( I'm not sure how many kills because I'm on console ) but we lost simply because we couldn't keep enough of them dead for a clean wipe. They won because they could die +5 times each without penalty which is something I think most would acknowledge as being a bad thing, especially when this advantage is exclusive to the side with an absurd numerical advantage. And to your comment on defending while outnumbered, defending at 2:1 odds is faceroll easy against average players if you actually know what your doing. I'm also not arguing that I alone should be able to 1v20 a bunch of plebs that think spamming rapid strikes in a 12v60 is ok, and that's coming from someone who will happily be using cold stone trebs next patch as emp with vicious death. What I want is repeated death to actually have a penalty of some kind when you severely outnumber your opponent, as opposed to right now where death is quite literally meaningless after a certain enemy:ally ratio.

    The game has always favoured meaningless deaths. You want death to mean something but changing rez times? Have fun when camps are back and there's still a constant group of people coming back to the fight but with full resources and in organised numbers.

    I honestly don't know who in this thread was around when camps were the thing, but that's how the game was designed and that's how it'll stay. Might benefit the organised groups over the zerg, but the zerg is what pays the bills and what gives us all the opportunity to go kill them.

    My viewpoint, plain and simple, is that if ZOS implement any of the suggestions for ressing in this thread it'll kill PvP quicker than anything else they've done.
    The Legendary Nothing
  • Sanct16
    Sanct16
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    How about we just remove dieing completly as it looks like the majority of the players prefers death being meaningless anyway, so why waste soul gems? We all love randomly smashing buttons without having to worry about anything.

    Think about it: You will never have to ride back to the battle on your horse, you wont get frustrated because you died, new players can learn the game without dieing all the time... Wouldnt that be perfect?

    /irony




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  • AyelineESO
    AyelineESO
    ✭✭✭
    Sanct16 wrote: »
    How about we just remove dieing completly as it looks like the majority of the players prefers death being meaningless anyway, so why waste soul gems? We all love randomly smashing buttons without having to worry about anything.

    Think about it: You will never have to ride back to the battle on your horse, you wont get frustrated because you died, new players can learn the game without dieing all the time... Wouldnt that be perfect?

    /irony





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