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Sorcs Strong...but Weak at the Same Time
gamerguy757
✭✭✭✭✭
I think I see it now...
I play as a Sorc, have been since console release. Over the last several months, I have learned that Sorcs are definitely one of the strongest classes in the game. But they're only defense is their one weakness...shields. I feel ZOS has done everything possible to make sorcs die away. Between Shieldbreaker-spamming, introduction of CP that increases damage to Shields, and the fact that Shields barely provide protection to 10k+ Wrecking Blows and Focused Aim, it makes me wonder why I'm still playing the class. Almost every build I fight in PvP is a NB, both magic and stamina, and they DESTROY anything and everything in their path. Am I crazy or is ZOS definitely biased against sorcs?
I play as a Sorc, have been since console release. Over the last several months, I have learned that Sorcs are definitely one of the strongest classes in the game. But they're only defense is their one weakness...shields. I feel ZOS has done everything possible to make sorcs die away. Between Shieldbreaker-spamming, introduction of CP that increases damage to Shields, and the fact that Shields barely provide protection to 10k+ Wrecking Blows and Focused Aim, it makes me wonder why I'm still playing the class. Almost every build I fight in PvP is a NB, both magic and stamina, and they DESTROY anything and everything in their path. Am I crazy or is ZOS definitely biased against sorcs?
4
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PhatGrimReaper✭✭✭✭✭gamerguy757 wrote: »I think I see it now...
I play as a Sorc, have been since console release. Over the last several months, I have learned that Sorcs are definitely one of the strongest classes in the game. But they're only defense is their one weakness...shields. I feel ZOS has done everything possible to make sorcs die away. Between Shieldbreaker-spamming, introduction of CP that increases damage to Shields, and the fact that Shields barely provide protection to 10k+ Wrecking Blows and Focused Aim, it makes me wonder why I'm still playing the class. Almost every build I fight in PvP is a NB, both magic and stamina, and they DESTROY anything and everything in their path. Am I crazy or is ZOS definitely biased against sorcs?
The changes to CP in the upcoming actually make shield stacking stronger on the whole. Hardy has always given your shields resistance to magic damage, but now it will grant physical resistance also. I can't see many people wasting points on more damage against shields to be honest, so all in all, shields were buffed.Fat Grim Reaper - (m)Dragon Knight AR28
F G R Junior - Templar AR26
This One Had Name Changed - Nightblade AR19
Fat Grim Streaker - Sorcerer AR15
M12-GM - Guardians of the Twelve-GM - Crown Store Heroes - ETU
RÀGE - R.I.P4 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Meh, when my sorc was level 16 wearing white training gear, I wrecked a vr16 WB spammer. Even without a shield their damage alone just melts faces.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What with... frag or overload... cuz those be the only two damaging moves in the sorc line up.
Here is a list of PvP playable moves in the sorc tree:
Overload
Power Surge
Streak
Cystal Frag
Hardened Ward
You MAY see a few running mines... Maybe
And that's it. Any dps Sorc uses destro staff, moves all classes can use, and resto staff, again with moves all classes can use.
The vast Majority of any dps sorc build is non sorc tree skills
Annulment
Healing Ward
Force Crush
Pulsar
Mages Light
Meteor
Webs
Proxy det
Dawnbreaker
Barrier
Etc...0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »What with... frag or overload... cuz those be the only two damaging moves in the sorc line up.
Here is a list of PvP playable moves in the sorc tree:
Overload
Power Surge
Streak
Cystal Frag
Hardened Ward
You MAY see a few running mines... Maybe
And that's it. Any dps Sorc uses destro staff, moves all classes can use, and resto staff, again with moves all classes can use.
The vast Majority of any dps sorc build is non sorc tree skills
Annulment
Healing Ward
Force Crush
Pulsar
Mages Light
Meteor
Webs
Proxy det
Dawnbreaker
Barrier
Etc...
You forgot Mage's Fury.0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sorcs are a weird combo of squishy/tanky. You've got no heals and no resist; all you have is shields, but if you have the seconds free to stack them up, they are really good. In PvE my sorc can buff up and wade into a mob and count on my shields to protect me; in PvP that's almost certain death. Once someone breaks down your shields or has you CC'd, it's really hard to recover.
I have a few minor issues with sorc skills that just don't mesh well with everything else, but mostly sorcs are in a strong place.0 -
Tonycheung✭✭✭D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Sorcs have to be 1 of the 4 strongest classes in this game
This. This is gold.3 -
Laggus✭✭✭✭You also can't do crit damage to a shield so in reality that shield is worth a lot more than its base value to you.
I have sacrificed a lot to achieve a high amount of crit and crit damage but its completely negated against any shield and not worth a damn.3 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Eh, you're crazy OP.
Staying alive on my sorc is super easy. Run unstoppable pots and it's even easier.
Sorcs shields are fine. If anything, harness magica and hardened ward need to stop stacking. Fighting a sorc on a magics build, even magica NB is too much of a hassle.
I don't remember the last time I touched my sorc on pvp. I find the playstyle incredibly boring.5 -
aLi3nZ✭✭✭✭I love sourcer. I tried briefly to be a nightblade and was terrible at it. I think your build isn't working for you op and you should change it. Put on a heavy chest and leg peice and slot boundless storm. With nirn staff your spell resist will be over 20k and physical resist over 16k. Combine that with hardened Ward even if it is only 9-10k and you got a pretty damn tanky sourc build. Especially when you have heals from power surge and healing Ward. You also gonna want undaunted mettle for more health and the heavy armour Passives for more health and armour. The next patch will allow sourcs to more easily stack points into physical damage resist as well.
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danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »What with... frag or overload... cuz those be the only two damaging moves in the sorc line up.
Here is a list of PvP playable moves in the sorc tree:
Overload
Power Surge
Streak
Cystal Frag
Hardened Ward
You MAY see a few running mines... Maybe
And that's it. Any dps Sorc uses destro staff, moves all classes can use, and resto staff, again with moves all classes can use.
The vast Majority of any dps sorc build is non sorc tree skills
Annulment
Healing Ward
Force Crush
Pulsar
Mages Light
Meteor
Webs
Proxy det
Dawnbreaker
Barrier
Etc...
You forgot Mage's Fury.
And Curse.
And really, how many "damaging moves" do you need? Most builds spam 1 or 2.Edited by danno8 on March 2, 2016 1:37PM1 -
gamerguy757✭✭✭✭✭Lol I actually run the standard meta with 5 piece Julianos, 1 piece molag (medium) and 3 piece torugs (1 heavy) with a nirn staff as an altmer. But I get my ass handed to me with Shieldbreaker, and Stamina builds. I actually am building a magblade Breton and she's starting to destroy. I get lucky sometimes by fighting other sorcs but for some reason I just can barely win fights. I know I know "git gud"0
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Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm a sorcerer and I feel like ZOS loves us. Did you see how fast they fixed overload when they broke it? Pretty sure Templars abilities and certain racial passives have been broken for MONTHS.
4 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »What with... frag or overload... cuz those be the only two damaging moves in the sorc line up.
Here is a list of PvP playable moves in the sorc tree:
Overload
Power Surge
Streak
Cystal Frag
Hardened Ward
You MAY see a few running mines... Maybe
And that's it. Any dps Sorc uses destro staff, moves all classes can use, and resto staff, again with moves all classes can use.
The vast Majority of any dps sorc build is non sorc tree skills
Annulment
Healing Ward
Force Crush
Pulsar
Mages Light
Meteor
Webs
Proxy det
Dawnbreaker
Barrier
Etc...
You forgot Mage's Fury.
And Curse.
And really, how many "damaging moves" do you need? Most builds spam 1 or 2.
You know that's what I like most about Sorc's everyone says they are easy to play, but a stamina build spams WB and executioner, NBs Spambush, Temps use biting jabs, idk what DKs do I actively avoid them and their damn wings.
But I'll be damned if I'm not using all 15 skills I have slotted (3rd bar OP). I don't have a 1 win button. If you don't know what you're doing as a Sorcerer you'll get melted.2 -
Resipsa131✭✭✭gamerguy757 wrote: »I think I see it now...
I play as a Sorc, have been since console release. Over the last several months, I have learned that Sorcs are definitely one of the strongest classes in the game. But they're only defense is their one weakness...shields. I feel ZOS has done everything possible to make sorcs die away. Between Shieldbreaker-spamming, introduction of CP that increases damage to Shields, and the fact that Shields barely provide protection to 10k+ Wrecking Blows and Focused Aim, it makes me wonder why I'm still playing the class. Almost every build I fight in PvP is a NB, both magic and stamina, and they DESTROY anything and everything in their path. Am I crazy or is ZOS definitely biased against sorcs?
Now imagine fighting in PvP without hardened ward.
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Jumper45✭✭✭Heh Its a problem.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245992/shield-stacking-was-never-a-problem-hardened-ward-is/p1Edited by Jumper45 on March 2, 2016 3:20PM“All right, I've been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager!
Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man whose gonna burn your house down - with the lemons!” (Portal 2)
17 Years MMORPG Experience healing and I still havn't figured out why people stand in red circles.0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »What with... frag or overload... cuz those be the only two damaging moves in the sorc line up.
Here is a list of PvP playable moves in the sorc tree:
Overload
Power Surge
Streak
Cystal Frag
Hardened Ward
You MAY see a few running mines... Maybe
And that's it. Any dps Sorc uses destro staff, moves all classes can use, and resto staff, again with moves all classes can use.
The vast Majority of any dps sorc build is non sorc tree skills
Annulment
Healing Ward
Force Crush
Pulsar
Mages Light
Meteor
Webs
Proxy det
Dawnbreaker
Barrier
Etc...
You forgot Mage's Fury.
And Curse.
And really, how many "damaging moves" do you need? Most builds spam 1 or 2.
You know that's what I like most about Sorc's everyone says they are easy to play, but a stamina build spams WB and executioner, NBs Spambush, Temps use biting jabs, idk what DKs do I actively avoid them and their damn wings.
But I'll be damned if I'm not using all 15 skills I have slotted (3rd bar OP). I don't have a 1 win button. If you don't know what you're doing as a Sorcerer you'll get melted.
I think all the classes need to be played well in order to win. I think we have all killed a million horrible NB's since IC release to really punctuate that fact. Come across a good NB though...
It's more like Sorcerers are easy to build for. Stack magicka/spell power to the roof and your defense and your offense are augmented. Can't do that on my Templar. If I stack too much into magicka, my health bar goes too low and I get one shot. I don't have a big shield to use 'cause it scales off of health. And sure my heals will be huge, but their is no difference between a 8k heal and a 12k heal if my health is in 1 shot territory, or I have to get down to 3k health to use it effectively.
And in regards to "1 button win" I was referring only to damaging spells. All the classes need to have lots of defense/buff/debuff skills on their bars.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorc are tricky to learn how to play, but when you do there very, very strong. Your burst can actively wipe any out in 1-2 seconds, if you get it off there is no way to survive it.
Curse
Det
Frag
Fury
Ult
It's possible to get all of them to hit within 1-2
Curse 14k tooltip
Proc'd frag 17-18k tool tip
Det (proxy/inev) 15k tool tip.
Fury 12k execution
Ult dawnbreaker/meteor, my dawnbreaker has a 16k tooltip. Plus 18k dot....
combines with a 12k hardered ward, 12k harness, healing ward, mines, streak etc...
It's a very strong class.
I still think hardened/harness ward shouldn't stack.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
PCheuk38b14_ESO✭✭✭IMO DK's have and will always remain the most constant. Beginning of the game they were the only class that was able to fight 40 people without breaking a sweat lol... and today they are still pretty strong but not OP. Sorcs are OP only when people don't know how to deal with them. Yes you prolly can't catch them but you won't die to one =P unless they land a good combo on you with RNG on their side.Edited by PCheuk38b14_ESO on March 2, 2016 7:09PM0
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D0ntevenL1ft✭✭✭✭✭Tonycheung wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Sorcs have to be 1 of the 4 strongest classes in this game
This. This is gold.
Appreciate it
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »What with... frag or overload... cuz those be the only two damaging moves in the sorc line up.
Here is a list of PvP playable moves in the sorc tree:
Overload
Power Surge
Streak
Cystal Frag
Hardened Ward
You MAY see a few running mines... Maybe
And that's it. Any dps Sorc uses destro staff, moves all classes can use, and resto staff, again with moves all classes can use.
The vast Majority of any dps sorc build is non sorc tree skills
Annulment
Healing Ward
Force Crush
Pulsar
Mages Light
Meteor
Webs
Proxy det
Dawnbreaker
Barrier
Etc...
You forgot Mage's Fury.
And Curse.
And really, how many "damaging moves" do you need? Most builds spam 1 or 2.
not sorcs as they do not have one usefull/powerfull spammable ability, outside of hardend ward wich is a defensive ability not allowing to kill anyone...Edited by Tankqull on March 2, 2016 10:03PMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PCheuk38b14_ESO wrote: »IMO DK's have and will always remain the most constant. Beginning of the game they were the only class that was able to fight 40 people without breaking a sweat lol... and today they are still pretty strong but not OP. Sorcs are OP only when people don't know how to deal with them. Yes you prolly can't catch them but you won't die to one =P unless they land a good combo on you with RNG on their side.
Are we really comparing dk's to sorc right now, lets just not.
Magicka dk's are useless in live currently.
Sorc are really strong, they don't need any rng when they can have shields bigger than there hp and throw out frags with 17-18k tooltip.Waffennacht wrote: »What with... frag or overload... cuz those be the only two damaging moves in the sorc line up.
Here is a list of PvP playable moves in the sorc tree:
Overload
Power Surge
Streak
Cystal Frag
Hardened Ward
You MAY see a few running mines... Maybe
And that's it. Any dps Sorc uses destro staff, moves all classes can use, and resto staff, again with moves all classes can use.
The vast Majority of any dps sorc build is non sorc tree skills
Annulment
Healing Ward
Force Crush
Pulsar
Mages Light
Meteor
Webs
Proxy det
Dawnbreaker
Barrier
Etc...
You forgot Mage's Fury.
And Curse.
And really, how many "damaging moves" do you need? Most builds spam 1 or 2.
not sorcs as they do not have one usefull/powerfull spammable ability, outside of hardend ward wich is a defensive ability not allowing to kill anyone...
Sorc aren't a class that use spamable abilites, there a class that sets up burst with timed skillls. They don't need a spam ability. The only class that have good spamable abilities are nb's and templars anyway. Dk's don't (whip is weak). Sorc don't
Even a random average player can kill a good player if their on a sorc.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
D0ntevenL1ft✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »PCheuk38b14_ESO wrote: »IMO DK's have and will always remain the most constant. Beginning of the game they were the only class that was able to fight 40 people without breaking a sweat lol... and today they are still pretty strong but not OP. Sorcs are OP only when people don't know how to deal with them. Yes you prolly can't catch them but you won't die to one =P unless they land a good combo on you with RNG on their side.
Are we really comparing dk's to sorc right now, lets just not.
Magicka dk's are useless in live currently.
Sorc are really strong, they don't need any rng when they can have shields bigger than there hp and throw out frags with 17-18k tooltip.Waffennacht wrote: »What with... frag or overload... cuz those be the only two damaging moves in the sorc line up.
Here is a list of PvP playable moves in the sorc tree:
Overload
Power Surge
Streak
Cystal Frag
Hardened Ward
You MAY see a few running mines... Maybe
And that's it. Any dps Sorc uses destro staff, moves all classes can use, and resto staff, again with moves all classes can use.
The vast Majority of any dps sorc build is non sorc tree skills
Annulment
Healing Ward
Force Crush
Pulsar
Mages Light
Meteor
Webs
Proxy det
Dawnbreaker
Barrier
Etc...
You forgot Mage's Fury.
And Curse.
And really, how many "damaging moves" do you need? Most builds spam 1 or 2.
not sorcs as they do not have one usefull/powerfull spammable ability, outside of hardend ward wich is a defensive ability not allowing to kill anyone...
Sorc aren't a class that use spamable abilites, there a class that sets up burst with timed skillls. They don't need a spam ability. The only class that have good spamable abilities are nb's and templars anyway. Dk's don't (whip is weak). Sorc don't
Even a random average player can kill a good player if their on a sorc.
A good player will NOT kill a better player simply because he is playing on a sorc… You're saying a good sorc is going to beat an even better stamblade or stam dk? Class is one thing but you're saying it over powers actual skill which is not true.1 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »PCheuk38b14_ESO wrote: »IMO DK's have and will always remain the most constant. Beginning of the game they were the only class that was able to fight 40 people without breaking a sweat lol... and today they are still pretty strong but not OP. Sorcs are OP only when people don't know how to deal with them. Yes you prolly can't catch them but you won't die to one =P unless they land a good combo on you with RNG on their side.
Are we really comparing dk's to sorc right now, lets just not.
Magicka dk's are useless in live currently.
Sorc are really strong, they don't need any rng when they can have shields bigger than there hp and throw out frags with 17-18k tooltip.Waffennacht wrote: »What with... frag or overload... cuz those be the only two damaging moves in the sorc line up.
Here is a list of PvP playable moves in the sorc tree:
Overload
Power Surge
Streak
Cystal Frag
Hardened Ward
You MAY see a few running mines... Maybe
And that's it. Any dps Sorc uses destro staff, moves all classes can use, and resto staff, again with moves all classes can use.
The vast Majority of any dps sorc build is non sorc tree skills
Annulment
Healing Ward
Force Crush
Pulsar
Mages Light
Meteor
Webs
Proxy det
Dawnbreaker
Barrier
Etc...
You forgot Mage's Fury.
And Curse.
And really, how many "damaging moves" do you need? Most builds spam 1 or 2.
not sorcs as they do not have one usefull/powerfull spammable ability, outside of hardend ward wich is a defensive ability not allowing to kill anyone...
Sorc aren't a class that use spamable abilites, there a class that sets up burst with timed skillls. They don't need a spam ability. The only class that have good spamable abilities are nb's and templars anyway. Dk's don't (whip is weak). Sorc don't
Even a random average player can kill a good player if their on a sorc.
A good player will NOT kill a better player simply because he is playing on a sorc… You're saying a good sorc is going to beat an even better stamblade or stam dk? Class is one thing but you're saying it over powers actual skill which is not true.
I agree. Not sure what this guy is on about.1 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You're not taking 10k damage from a Wrecking blow with your shields up. Shieldbreaker is a trash set and just helps make it easier to pick a target.
Magika Sorc's biggest weakness is mobility, because of the streak nerf they're less mobile than ALL stam builds and also magika NB. The only classes with less mobility than sorc are mag DK and magplar. Normally I'd say this isn't an issue, but being that the sorc class is predicated on mobility(a 10-12k hardened ward is laughable defense against any competent player), that being said, the only suggestion I have is to make streak not scale in cost as long as its used offensively(if you hit a hostile target).
The reality is, magika sorcs are strong now and next patch they'll be the best class by a large margin, they need no buffing.
Edit: If you're a magika sorc and dying to a magika NB its because they're a lot more skilled than you, the sorc toolkit works almost as a hard counter to magbladeEdited by Lexxypwns on March 3, 2016 2:32AM1 -
D0ntevenL1ft✭✭✭✭✭You're not taking 10k damage from a Wrecking blow with your shields up. Shieldbreaker is a trash set and just helps make it easier to pick a target.
Magika Sorc's biggest weakness is mobility, because of the streak nerf they're less mobile than ALL stam builds and also magika NB. The only classes with less mobility than sorc are mag DK and magplar. Normally I'd say this isn't an issue, but being that the sorc class is predicated on mobility(a 10-12k hardened ward is laughable defense against any competent player), that being said, the only suggestion I have is to make streak not scale in cost as long as its used offensively(if you hit a hostile target).
The reality is, magika sorcs are strong now and next patch they'll be the best class by a large margin, they need no buffing.
Edit: If you're a magika sorc and dying to a magika NB its because they're a lot more skilled than you, the sorc toolkit works almost as a hard counter to magblade
Agreed. Never understood how people complain over a 10k shield that can be taken out with one surprise attack.Edited by D0ntevenL1ft on March 3, 2016 3:41AM0 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭I feel like insta frag* proc is opEdited by SemiD4rkness on March 3, 2016 8:12AM0
