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Heres an idea for balance

americansteel
americansteel
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all main sources of DPS moves should hit for 8k-13k Frags, wrecking blow, steel tornado, snipe, lava whip and puncturing sweeps all should be on par with each other!
ALL heaing cast or recieved should be greater.
2 hand weapons should take less time to land on targets!
ALL projectiles SHOULD be reflectible.
Nords need passives restructured. they are warriors not test dummies. possibly the highest skilled (most feared) race on tamriel who yield superb swordsmanship among strength and tenacity.

Just a thought.

Whats yalls thoughts?
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  • Dread_Guy
    Dread_Guy
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    That's more than one thought is what I think
    "My name is Julius Decimus Heraclius, Guildmaster of the Scions of the Sun, Brigadier of the Covenant Army, loyal servant to the High King Emeric. Brother to a betrayed legion, son to a fallen empire. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next." ---Julius Decimus Heraclius (Imperial Templar)
  • americansteel
    americansteel
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    That's more than one thought is what I think

    all fits in well.
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  • D0ntevenL1ft
    D0ntevenL1ft
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    So AOE hits the same as single target and nords need better passives. Im sure ZOS appreciates these well thought out balance suggestions.
  • americansteel
    americansteel
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    So AOE hits the same as single target and nords need better passives. Im sure ZOS appreciates these well thought out balance suggestions.

    i should have left tornado out i was thinking of something else.
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  • AJ_1988
    AJ_1988
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    I love how steel tornado is getting buffed damage in TG. Like people don't spin to win enough
  • americansteel
    americansteel
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    AJ_1988 wrote: »
    I love how steel tornado is getting buffed damage in TG. Like people don't spin to win enough

    is it really?
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  • olivaresdonjuan
    I agree on the nord part, they are supposed to be warriors not punching bags.
  • AJ_1988
    AJ_1988
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    AJ_1988 wrote: »
    I love how steel tornado is getting buffed damage in TG. Like people don't spin to win enough

    is it really?

    Yep they are reducing the range to 9 metres but increasing the damage with each rank. It's in the pts patch notes
  • phillyproduct
    phillyproduct
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    Nords aren't the most skilled in swordsmanship(redguard) nor are they the most feared(orc) they should get a buff in their passives but considering this is a mmo and Nord fill the tanking role their passives are stacked that way to promote that type of playstyle.

    Your damage ideas are to broad you can't broad stoke all these skills cause they all have secondary effects that do other things
    CP-750 orc nighblade ebonheart NA
    Dark elf sorc ebonheart
    Orc templar
    Dark elf Dragon knight
    Redguard warden

    Vet CoA saved the day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S616Dhc2Yu4
  • americansteel
    americansteel
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    Nords aren't the most skilled in swordsmanship(redguard) nor are they the most feared(orc) they should get a buff in their passives but considering this is a mmo and Nord fill the tanking role their passives are stacked that way to promote that type of playstyle.

    Your damage ideas are to broad you can't broad stoke all these skills cause they all have secondary effects that do other things

    lore-Nords once stood over most of tamriel. Most imperial crusades usually ended in victory with their Nordic allies,
    Orsimer are continously attacked over the ERAs dwindiling their populations. Orcs have also migrated to skyrim swearing allegiance to their Nordic neighbors.

    Nords are known as masters of weaponry and are thought of as the greates blacksmiths.

    On a technicality standpoint Nords of skyrim always seem to crush their enemies when (not divided) something redguards havent accomplished besides killing their own people.

    the Nord race are also crucial to the survival of tamriel the continuation of Nirn.
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  • americansteel
    americansteel
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    to be fair reading through lore redguards utilize 1 hand orcs utilize heavy armor Nords utilize 2H and 1h along with shield, these 3 races seem to be near spot on with each other disregard ESO passives.
    either way 2H should be focused for Nord not training.
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  • Jade1986
    Jade1986
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    Instant abilities should never hit as hard as abilities with a cast time.

    Also, I am pretty sure Orcs and Falmer are far more feared than Nords.
    Live.Love.Learn.

    "I would rather regret the things that I have done, than regret the things I have not done."
  • Lokey0024
    Lokey0024
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    I like pie. Pie is good. I think i want pie.
  • americansteel
    americansteel
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    laced wrote: »
    Instant abilities should never hit as hard as abilities with a cast time.

    Also, I am pretty sure Orcs and Falmer are far more feared than Nords.

    main sources of DPS should not be hitting like a wet noodle.

    falmer are not usually visited by outsiders let alone wanderers roaming through dwemer ruins.
    i keep see in lore through out the eras many regard Nords as wild ravaging warriors killing everything in their path. and many kingdoms try to avoid conflict with skyrim or even morrowind.
    "Victory or sovngarde" a race cannot be feared if you cannot manage to wipe entire generations of elves, cannot dominate an entire continent, you gotta admit militarily wise Nords of skyrim have achieved alot in little time.
    altmer bosmer and felines fear orcs.
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  • Millerman34n
    Millerman34n
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    all main sources of DPS moves should hit for 8k-13k Frags, wrecking blow, steel tornado, snipe, lava whip and puncturing sweeps all should be on par with each other!
    ALL heaing cast or recieved should be greater.
    2 hand weapons should take less time to land on targets!
    ALL projectiles SHOULD be reflectible.
    Nords need passives restructured. they are warriors not test dummies. possibly the highest skilled (most feared) race on tamriel who yield superb swordsmanship among strength and tenacity.

    Just a thought.

    Whats yalls thoughts?

    Wow they should have you on the balance team I love it how you put so much time and effort into this 1 fix all balance, olny if other idiots on the forms had half the wisdom and charisma that you have the world would be a much better place. can u include pages of spreadsheets please I would love to see them!
  • Sublime
    Sublime
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    Too few diversity, I could play chess instead and get a similar result. I play videogames for their vast variety, so cutting down on that part would hurt the game a lot in my eyes.
  • americansteel
    americansteel
    ✭✭✭✭
    all main sources of DPS moves should hit for 8k-13k Frags, wrecking blow, steel tornado, snipe, lava whip and puncturing sweeps all should be on par with each other!
    ALL heaing cast or recieved should be greater.
    2 hand weapons should take less time to land on targets!
    ALL projectiles SHOULD be reflectible.
    Nords need passives restructured. they are warriors not test dummies. possibly the highest skilled (most feared) race on tamriel who yield superb swordsmanship among strength and tenacity.

    Just a thought.

    Whats yalls thoughts?

    Wow they should have you on the balance team I love it how you put so much time and effort into this 1 fix all balance, olny if other idiots on the forms had half the wisdom and charisma that you have the world would be a much better place. can u include pages of spreadsheets please I would love to see them!

    it was an idea for some balance like many, i too have an idea,
    Magic templars and DKs suck no arguing in that area.
    this forum needs more creative threads instead of smart a s s comments.
    My topic was meant for others to add to this, others have ideas that i would have never thought of, If so add to it. If you feel the need to be a smart a s s whiney pansy do so in another thread. Sad how so many want to be salty.
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  • Duiwel
    Duiwel
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    So with all healing cast or received being greater than the dps being dished out don't you think people would just be impossible to kill?

    True balance is never having higher heals than dps.

    It's about dmg being about 65% vs 45% aproximately ( given there will always be a very expensive heal that replenishes almost all hp but with a c/d timer and it really is expensive ).

    After all MMO's are about killing things you don't want to mend & heal them to death do you ? :) perhaps if they receive enough healing they will grow old and die ( just a joke OP :wink: )

    As for the Nord passives, I agree & disagree. Nords are nice and tanky, perhaps they can also get something to go with the cold resistance since that is pretty useless in this game. But who knows. I usually roll a Nord to be a templar ( stam tank) and also have a mag templar (altmer).

    But I like the discussion you started so let me add on to what you said :smiley:


    CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM & ADDED SUGGESTIONS:
      The 2H landing time is fine given that these weapons are "heavy" and need time to "swing" The thing about meteor not being reflectable is tragic really (I have never reflected a meteor on my DK and was looking forward to it), however given that it's an ULTIMATE. I understand why they changed it ( my suggestion for a solution for this is METEOR should still be reflectable in terms of not damaging the DK, if they don't want you to kill the caster they should just let it do no dmg to the DK ) Khajiit get some really nice stamina buffs called: Robust Constitution I would like to see something slightly similar for the Nord but weaker in terms of % then the class would be nice enough I think. No the dps skills should not all be the same that would make the game less fun and a mindless choice about what picture in the icon list you like more since they all do the same dmg and cast time is the same.
    @Duiwel:
    Join ORDER OF SITHIS We're recruiting! PC EU

    "Dear Brother. I do not spread rumours. I create them..."
  • Millerman34n
    Millerman34n
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    all main sources of DPS moves should hit for 8k-13k Frags, wrecking blow, steel tornado, snipe, lava whip and puncturing sweeps all should be on par with each other!
    ALL heaing cast or recieved should be greater.
    2 hand weapons should take less time to land on targets!
    ALL projectiles SHOULD be reflectible.
    Nords need passives restructured. they are warriors not test dummies. possibly the highest skilled (most feared) race on tamriel who yield superb swordsmanship among strength and tenacity.

    Just a thought.

    Whats yalls thoughts?

    Wow they should have you on the balance team I love it how you put so much time and effort into this 1 fix all balance, olny if other idiots on the forms had half the wisdom and charisma that you have the world would be a much better place. can u include pages of spreadsheets please I would love to see them!


    Ok if you want a serious response, when I get home I will show you all the data on what needs to be fixed,I will make a new form post and link it here.
  • OurOwn
    OurOwn
    Horrible, snipe is already op because it has the most range of any ability.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Terrible idea, not sure why you want skills with a cast time to be on par with instant skills.

    I'd also the game not be just everything the same, you may as well turn everyone into stick figures, give everyone 1k hp and make all attack do 100 dmg.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    Nords aren't the most skilled in swordsmanship(redguard) nor are they the most feared(orc) they should get a buff in their passives but considering this is a mmo and Nord fill the tanking role their passives are stacked that way to promote that type of playstyle.

    Your damage ideas are to broad you can't broad stoke all these skills cause they all have secondary effects that do other things

    Nord has always been one of the strong warrior races in Elder Scrolls. I'm not sure what you are talking about. They're natural athletes, strong, and very hardy people. Redguards are known for being more swift, but generally more frail and less resilient than Nords. Orcs are a middle of the road race here, and in the case of Skyrim they were a terrible race that honestly deserved a Mod (I never did understand how they only gave them a 1/day ability). The Nords and the Redguards are very similar people, hardened by harsh climates and a warrior culture. The difference is that Nords live in the harsh northern wastes, and Redguards live in harsh deserts. Outside of that I really see them culturally very similar. There's a reason the Red Wave stopped at Skyrim. In fact, come to think of it the Nords and Redguards have never been conquered in their home domain, but rather did the conquering. The only reason they're apart of the Empire is that the Empire is represented by their (Human) Emperor. I hadn't even thought about this until now.

    That's theme though. In terms of balance I feel like Nord would be in a good base if the Devs would properly balance out tanking abilities/attributes in this game. Health has a lower return on investment, and that's why Nord currently underperforms from what it should be doing. Armor/SR also have a low return on investment, and the diminishing returns of their resistance trait make the Nord better off ironically in Light/Medium armor. I think they might also consider doing the Nord elemental resistances like they were in Morrowind extremely high cold resistance and moderate lightning resistance. Nords are supposed to be the perfect race for Elf-extermination.
    Edited by dodgehopper_ESO on February 24, 2016 7:05PM
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    laced wrote: »
    Instant abilities should never hit as hard as abilities with a cast time.

    Also, I am pretty sure Orcs and Falmer are far more feared than Nords.

    That's because Nords are generally pretty chill when they aren't raiding their neighbors. They like mead and eating. They're also a much more funloving people than Orcs, but bear in mind their idea of games generally leaves everyone else bloody and bruised. I suspect even Orcs would have a hard time with this element of Nord society. Nords are summed up by wild contrasts. Orcs are just generally grim and emotionally stunted. Falmer are a sub-elven race that make goblins and ogres look like geniuses, I have no idea why you would include them. Most people don't fear the Nords because for the most part it seems like Nords are pretty happy to stay in their northern wastes, unless they sign up for adventure and battle with the Imperial military, or to join reavers/bandits. Sovngarde awaits!
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    ✭✭✭
    all main sources of DPS moves should hit for 8k-13k Frags, wrecking blow, steel tornado, snipe, lava whip and puncturing sweeps all should be on par with each other!
    ALL heaing cast or recieved should be greater.
    2 hand weapons should take less time to land on targets!
    ALL projectiles SHOULD be reflectible.
    Nords need passives restructured. they are warriors not test dummies. possibly the highest skilled (most feared) race on tamriel who yield superb swordsmanship among strength and tenacity.

    Just a thought.

    Whats yalls thoughts?

    I'll actually respond to your main points.
    1. I dont' think all forms of DPS should be equivalent. Lets compare Cloaked Dagger vs. Ambush vs. Lotus Fan vs. Biting Jabs vs Wrecking Blow, vs. Steel Tornado. Each and everyone one of these skills are damage oriented skills, but the important thing to recognize is that they all bring something different to the table. Cloaked dagger can supply a stun, dps, be clipped rapidly, and activates shadow passives for mitigation. Ambush can empower snare, stun, and do damage as well as reliably gap close. Lotus Fan is like Ambush but also has an aoe portion. Biting Jabs is relatively clunky, its more difficult to clip, can proc a class passive if you're lucky, and its easily avoided. Wrecking blow has a clear windup that can be a little tricky to spot with lag, it can be clipped, and the cc can be nigh interminable. Steel tornado already does ludicrous amounts of damage hitting quite a few targets in its area. I don't think the damage numbers should be the same on these things, or we'll all end up using whatever ends up being the best for all situations (my guess would be steel tornado).
    2. I feel Healing/Damage should be roughly the same. What should tip the scales are things like positioning, stuns, timing, etc.
    3. Reflects are fine, but I'd actually like to see them make a deflect. I think One Hand and Shield instead of reflecting spells back at the mark should have an option to deflect multiple ranged attacks. This would make it unique without it being overpowering, and also forcing the enemy to close the gap (in part why you would use a shield instead of a bow).
    4. I do think something isn't right with the way Nords are designed now. If I had my way I'd give Nords something like more stamina regeneration. At the same time I'd give Argonians the highest Health regeneration in the game - that is THEIR STYLE, and I think the stats should make that clear. Before they do all of that though, Health and Tank stats in general need some love by ZoS badly.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Lokey0024
    Lokey0024
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    Nords should have longer cc immunity, call it beserker rage or something.
  • americansteel
    americansteel
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    laced wrote: »
    Instant abilities should never hit as hard as abilities with a cast time.

    Also, I am pretty sure Orcs and Falmer are far more feared than Nords.

    That's because Nords are generally pretty chill when they aren't raiding their neighbors. They like mead and eating. They're also a much more funloving people than Orcs, but bear in mind their idea of games generally leaves everyone else bloody and bruised. I suspect even Orcs would have a hard time with this element of Nord society. Nords are summed up by wild contrasts. Orcs are just generally grim and emotionally stunted. Falmer are a sub-elven race that make goblins and ogres look like geniuses, I have no idea why you would include them. Most people don't fear the Nords because for the most part it seems like Nords are pretty happy to stay in their northern wastes, unless they sign up for adventure and battle with the Imperial military, or to join reavers/bandits. Sovngarde awaits!

    multiple accounts have been made of Nord invasions completely decimating elven settlements and cities, including orcish strongholds.
    this goes for Redguards aswell. Nords and redguards are quuite similar.
    Theres a reason why the Empire and Allessia have always asked for aid from skyrim. Nordic culture teaches complete destruction upon Elves, this they did well when they fought Elven Armies. A single Nord battalion could wipe out a small army, conguer nearly any fortress with small numbers and then kill everything they see around them.
    Nords once stood over tamriel,. No other race could pull that off. Something Elves do not want to see happen again.
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  • americansteel
    americansteel
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    Lokey0024 wrote: »
    Nords should have longer cc immunity, call it beserker rage or something.

    CC in general needs fixing.
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  • americansteel
    americansteel
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    all main sources of DPS moves should hit for 8k-13k Frags, wrecking blow, steel tornado, snipe, lava whip and puncturing sweeps all should be on par with each other!
    ALL heaing cast or recieved should be greater.
    2 hand weapons should take less time to land on targets!
    ALL projectiles SHOULD be reflectible.
    Nords need passives restructured. they are warriors not test dummies. possibly the highest skilled (most feared) race on tamriel who yield superb swordsmanship among strength and tenacity.

    Just a thought.

    Whats yalls thoughts?

    I'll actually respond to your main points.
    1. I dont' think all forms of DPS should be equivalent. Lets compare Cloaked Dagger vs. Ambush vs. Lotus Fan vs. Biting Jabs vs Wrecking Blow, vs. Steel Tornado. Each and everyone one of these skills are damage oriented skills, but the important thing to recognize is that they all bring something different to the table. Cloaked dagger can supply a stun, dps, be clipped rapidly, and activates shadow passives for mitigation. Ambush can empower snare, stun, and do damage as well as reliably gap close. Lotus Fan is like Ambush but also has an aoe portion. Biting Jabs is relatively clunky, its more difficult to clip, can proc a class passive if you're lucky, and its easily avoided. Wrecking blow has a clear windup that can be a little tricky to spot with lag, it can be clipped, and the cc can be nigh interminable. Steel tornado already does ludicrous amounts of damage hitting quite a few targets in its area. I don't think the damage numbers should be the same on these things, or we'll all end up using whatever ends up being the best for all situations (my guess would be steel tornado).
    2. I feel Healing/Damage should be roughly the same. What should tip the scales are things like positioning, stuns, timing, etc.
    3. Reflects are fine, but I'd actually like to see them make a deflect. I think One Hand and Shield instead of reflecting spells back at the mark should have an option to deflect multiple ranged attacks. This would make it unique without it being overpowering, and also forcing the enemy to close the gap (in part why you would use a shield instead of a bow).
    4. I do think something isn't right with the way Nords are designed now. If I had my way I'd give Nords something like more stamina regeneration. At the same time I'd give Argonians the highest Health regeneration in the game - that is THEIR STYLE, and I think the stats should make that clear. Before they do all of that though, Health and Tank stats in general need some love by ZoS badly.

    Any AoEs i feel should not be hitting Near Snipe CF or WB. yet steal tornado is getting buffed?
    i Think its called puncturing strike? for Sword dna Shield, i think it Should hit harder.
    All single target DPS should be hittin nearly as hard as each other.
    I have destroyed so many Magic templars and DKs with wrecking blow (im not good btw) on my stamplar, i feel so bad aswell i see my opponent spamming jabs and whips at me its like barely doing anything to me.
    the coming buffs in TG are a joke Dark flares hit higher than CF yet are receiving 20% buffing?
    NO just NO to that!,
    why have DPS abilities in a game when they commit near 0 DPS!
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  • Wreuntzylla
    Wreuntzylla
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    laced wrote: »
    Instant abilities should never hit as hard as abilities with a cast time.

    Also, I am pretty sure Orcs and Falmer are far more feared than Nords.

    That's because Nords are generally pretty chill when they aren't raiding their neighbors. They like mead and eating. They're also a much more funloving people than Orcs, but bear in mind their idea of games generally leaves everyone else bloody and bruised. I suspect even Orcs would have a hard time with this element of Nord society. Nords are summed up by wild contrasts. Orcs are just generally grim and emotionally stunted. Falmer are a sub-elven race that make goblins and ogres look like geniuses, I have no idea why you would include them. Most people don't fear the Nords because for the most part it seems like Nords are pretty happy to stay in their northern wastes, unless they sign up for adventure and battle with the Imperial military, or to join reavers/bandits. Sovngarde awaits!

    multiple accounts have been made of Nord invasions completely decimating elven settlements and cities, including orcish strongholds.
    this goes for Redguards aswell. Nords and redguards are quuite similar.
    Theres a reason why the Empire and Allessia have always asked for aid from skyrim. Nordic culture teaches complete destruction upon Elves, this they did well when they fought Elven Armies. A single Nord battalion could wipe out a small army, conguer nearly any fortress with small numbers and then kill everything they see around them.
    Nords once stood over tamriel,. No other race could pull that off. Something Elves do not want to see happen again.

    Yes, but the elves were really asking for it.
  • MrGigglypants
    MrGigglypants
    ✭✭✭
    At this point take away all skills make it a 3 button game and everyone a stick figure. It's not about true balance it's about diversity and decision making. It's like saying life is fair, it's not, get over it , find what you enjoy and move on.
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