istateres wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

In the long run though, does it really matter?

This is a public MMO. There will be great people and not so great people and even some total tools.

There will always be bullies and there will always be harassment. It is simple reality.

I grew up long ago and realized that. If someone is harassing your or bullying you, get even. Ignore it if you can, but, if you can't, get even.

MMOs to me are a lot like the real world. You can b****, moan and complain about your feelings being hurt or you can do something about it. Fortunately, an MMO is JUST A GAME! For goodness sake. I deal with harassment and being bothered constantly. It's so bad that I don't even use my headphones anymore. Sexist, homophobic, bullying, sexually harassing, or just plain a**holery - it's par for the course.

I don't worry about it anymore. I love ESO. I keep a list and, when the time comes and I run in to them in the right environment I get payback. There's nothing better than ganking one of your harassers in Cyrodil or the IC and taking all their stones.

I'm willing to wait.

I truly hope you are just trolling us.

"There will always be bullies and there will always be harassment. It is simple reality." 100% true, but that does NOT mean we accept it nor that we do nothing about it. It is the same with sexism, racism, etc. They will always exist, and they should never be acceptable.

"I deal with harassment and being bothered constantly." So maybe we need more tools to prevent this? Maybe others aren't as easily able to deal with as you are.

Zorrashi wrote: »

I rarely get harassed, but when I do, I always find it easy enough to ditch them in some manner. Transit shrine, ignore, simply going about my day, etc.
But it is always more tedious, if not infuriating, when it is someone trolling a group event that we prepared for weeks, if not months in advance (trying to get our playing time to match up). The typical approach of ignore, transit and whatever else usually seem like useless half-measures by that point because not only are we coerced away from whatever we were doing, but it is a tedium to regroup at a new location (or the same) only encounter yet another troll, and leave everyone with less time to socialize with each other in a proper setting. No one wants to log on for an hour only to spend 20-30 minuets of it avoiding/ignoring a troll and the confusion of moving thee event to a different location.

The fact that they can continue to do this with little to no consequence is what make the current tools of dealing with harassers and trolls feel so....half-@ssed at times. Like its great and all (particularly for solo/duo play) but not good enough in certain circumstances. Thus, while I will still resort to transit shrines, reloging and the rest most of the time, I will insist for more tools to better deal with or identify harassment.

It doesn't even have to be a visual ignore feature necessarily, but something else that is more player driven. Like a player reputation system of some kind that helps us identify bad eggs that at the same time highlight players that may need an investigation of conduct by ZOS. If these harassers do anything else on ESO other than harass (group content, questing, etc.) then it is possible that the social repercussion of being a bad egg (like people refusing to group, guilds refusing to recruit) will outweigh the enjoyment they get out of harassing.

Zorrashi wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

I rarely get harassed, but when I do, I always find it easy enough to ditch them in some manner. Transit shrine, ignore, simply going about my day, etc.
But it is always more tedious, if not infuriating, when it is someone trolling a group event that we prepared for weeks, if not months in advance (trying to get our playing time to match up). The typical approach of ignore, transit and whatever else usually seem like useless half-measures by that point because not only are we coerced away from whatever we were doing, but it is a tedium to regroup at a new location (or the same) only encounter yet another troll, and leave everyone with less time to socialize with each other in a proper setting. No one wants to log on for an hour only to spend 20-30 minuets of it avoiding/ignoring a troll and the confusion of moving thee event to a different location.

The fact that they can continue to do this with little to no consequence is what make the current tools of dealing with harassers and trolls feel so....half-@ssed at times. Like its great and all (particularly for solo/duo play) but not good enough in certain circumstances. Thus, while I will still resort to transit shrines, reloging and the rest most of the time, I will insist for more tools to better deal with or identify harassment.

It doesn't even have to be a visual ignore feature necessarily, but something else that is more player driven. Like a player reputation system of some kind that helps us identify bad eggs that at the same time highlight players that may need an investigation of conduct by ZOS. If these harassers do anything else on ESO other than harass (group content, questing, etc.) then it is possible that the social repercussion of being a bad egg (like people refusing to group, guilds refusing to recruit) will outweigh the enjoyment they get out of harassing.

And just who defines what harassment is? If it does not violate the CoC then it is not something that can be dealt with. Who defines if it's sexism or harassment or whatever? Is that going to be you?

Any person who has ever hit the report button, individually decides what "harassment" means to them. Like everything else, harassment is a subjective term. What may be harassment to you, may not constitute as harassment to me and vice versa. Either way, it will be left to ZOS (the only legitimate judge of ToS which has fairly broad parameters for what can constitute as harassment) to investigate if the harassment is legitimate enough to warrant action on their part.

DenMoria wrote: »

Admittedly, trolling is not pleasant, but it may also not be harassment. Is repeatedly ganking the same player because you simply don't like them harassment? Sure it is, but it is also not doing anything wrong. Is stating your opinion harassment? No - while the person who does not agree with you may think so, you have every right to free expression.

See above ^.
But I would again like to reinforce the fact that ZOS should investigate cases of supposed harassment. Emphasis on the word "investigate". Cases have different circumstances and that should be taken into account when a report is sent, but it is up to ZOS to investigate the matter and see if anything can be done about it. I can be as small as nothing be done at all because it was simply a lone case of sensitivity, a small notice sent to the harasser, or a temporary ban if it was for a repeated offender.

But for a word about the "right to free expression". You do indeed have the right to free expression but that does not mean you should be completely exempt from the damage that expression may cause. It's like saying the Right to Free Speech in the U.S should allow you to verbally threaten anyone you like (you can be arrested and tried for it if its bad enough) because hey, its free speech!

The Right to Free Expression means nothing more than that you can say whatever you wish, not that you can do it and be completely free of consequences.

DenMoria wrote: »

[
[...]
Obviously stalking is a bad thing, but, then again. IT IS A VIDEO GAME! For goodness sake. They are just typed words or animated actions. What difference does it make.

Being a video game does not excuse all modes of conduct from repercussion. There can be understanding and a bit of (a lot of) leeway in what you can say and do certainly, but saying that "its in a videogame therefore it shouldn't matter" has all but proven itself to be false in many cases.

Just like with the internet, what you can do on it may have real world repercussion and effects. Hence why cyber bullying and harassment is a thing at all. They can and do have the potential to have real world effects.

Tannakaobi wrote: »

There is no solution to this other than what is in place. Any tools created to tackle harassment inevitably get's used to do the harrassing which is even worse. All you can do is report and forget. It is then up to ZM to act responsibly to create a safe playing space, which I would say they do a good job at. I have never been harassed in ESO, not once and all my characters are female.

Personally I don't see a problem, there is little harassment in ESO, so they must be doing something right, but then I don't get offended by the drop of a hat. I kind of think the world has gone mad. These days you can't say boo to a goose without offending someone.

Take the op's situation. I have been in the same sort of situation, so what to do? If it were me I would ignore it and carry on. If this was impossible then I would wayshrine away, sell my stuff, work on a bit of crafting and all that sort of stuff and then return. So after 10 mins or so I'd be back with empty bags, more skill in crafting and the person would be gone 99 times out of 100. Absolutely no problem and I would not even have gave it a second thought.

Actually, if it was me I'd have engaged in the joke and spent a few minutes larking about with the guy and we would have both gone our separate ways. I'd have either thought, "what an idiot' or even "what a funny guy". That is what happens when you don't get offended by every little thing, but that's neither here nor there.

There is of course one solution that works very well, which is the option to change instance. I've seen it in Neverwinter and I have seen it in swtor. I don't know how that would work in ESO though.

Jesh wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

[...]
I do not disagree with your suppositions, and you are right that you are more than free to "report". Ultimately though it is pointless. People are people and will do what people will do. You will never create a perfect world where everyone is nice to each other all the time and no-ones feelings ever get hurt.

As I said, if the harassment crosses the line in to something legally liable (assault, slander, etc...) then an action can be taken (your example of a threat would, of course qualify), but 90% of what is being done is nothing more than being thin skinned and unable to deal with the reality of how people are.

Its not always about being thin skinned though, its often the use of racial, misogynist, and homophobic slurs which are clearly disparaging, against ToS, and are meant to be hurtful. I don't think that reporting that is a pointless act. I think tolerating those are cowardly.
Just my opinion.

Zorrashi wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

I, however, have been harassed on ESO, not so much anymore, but, when it was just out on consoles, on a constant basis. I base my characters off of myself, and, apparently that is bait (I have also suffered it in real life as well). I guess I am simply too old and pragmatic to really care though. As I said, when I was coming up, this was de riguer so you got used to it. It has always rolled off my back like water off a duck.

I have to admit, in my time playing mmo's I can think of one case of harassment that I experienced that I couldn't get away from. It was when I was playing WoW, I made a black human rogue. It wasn't a case of one person harassing me, it was constant and often, by many people. Sadly racism is pretty bad, especially in europe when you have people from places like Russia playing. I'd imagine America is pretty bad too, but I couldn't say.

A bit off topic but I always heard that the EU server was always more "civil". That in comparison to the U.S server, verbal fights in zone and crude behavior (particularly in beginner zones) was less common. Is this not the case?

erliesc wrote: »

I was harrassed from maybe 2-3 days in the game.

* 1st instance was someone ask to FRIEND...being a newbe I OK'd it and then had them show up a bunch of times out of nowwhere and try to trade or goof around....then disappear. Small sneaker. Seemed to have some crack code he was using.

* For awhile I had a bunch of female characters messing around...usually with French names for some reason.

* Then as usual...it's the the typical cast a spell when you are checking your inventory or at a crafting station or bank or guild trader.

* Or runaround jumping all over you when doing the above stuff.


I've changed the way I play the game....

* Usually play during hours other than evening/weekends when most trouble seems to be around.

* Do my crafting and banking at various places.

* When checking inventory I get in the shadows.

* Travel through more remote areas when possible.

* IF someone pisses with me I'm willing to fry them with a stick...jump all over them..or chase them till they drop. They'd better have a horse.


Too bad things have to be this way. I mostly spend my time trying to further my game...since the game is complicated and there's always something new to learn.

Very hard to concentrate when this kind of crap goes on.... As a male character I don't get too much suggestive stuff...that would be even worse.

Makes people in the game distrust everyone... Must be high school bullying.....

I think Bethesda has an info leak somewhere...check out your cop-wantabees...in house.

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

I am so freaking frustrated right now.

Last night, at approximately 12:00 a.m. my time, I was running a zone when a player began harassing me. The harassment took the form of following me around, making psudeo-sexual gestures, and asking inappropriate personal questions. When I tried to ignore the player, they began casting area spells to annoy me and mess up my game. When I finally stopped asked what was going on, the player responded with another sexually suggestive comment. I turned to leave (I was just trying to complete a quest in that area) and he (and I'm using He as the indefinite pronoun; I acknowledge it could have been a she) began throwing out additional comments, questions, and gestures. I finally told him that if he didn't stop I would report him. He LOLed me and then said he was going to report me for being a prude.

I tried to ignore him but he just continued to follow me. Finally, I did report him (twice, in fact, because he wouldn't stop) once with a screen shot and his character name. But of course, this is the response I got:

Greetings!

Thank you for your inquiry. Please note that our support office is currently closed. Our support hours are between 9am and 10pm Eastern Standard Time, seven days a week. We will investigate your inquiry as soon as we reopen.

Our goal is to investigate and respond to your contact within six business hours.

We appreciate your patience.

Warm Regards,
The Bethesda Support Team

I finally had to logged off to get away from him. I still have not received any further response from Zenimax or Bethesda.

Okay, so here's my question: What can we do about this? Yeah, report it but you can see how effective that is. Normally, I can just brush this adolescent behaivor off, but this person so intent upon interfering with what I was doing that I couldn't even play the freakin game. Yeah, I could have gone to another zone or teleported (for gold) away from the situation. But why should I have to do that?

I can anticipate some responses:

This is an MMO. You have to deal with this stuff.

No, I don't. If that is the response from Zenimax, then give me my money back, including the cost of the game and all the subscriptions I've paid. Is that unreasonable? You bet it is. But so is doing absolutely NOTHING to stop harassment in the game.

Zenimax deals with harassment. They just can't talk about it.

Really? You believe that? That seems to be really easy way of not doing anything and hoping the problem goes away. And clearly, they're not doing anything except during regular business hours.

Grow up and get a thick skin.

You do realize I couldn't play the game. This isn't a thick skin issue; I can fire off snarly responses with the best of them, and I'm happy to walk way from a jerk, if I can go somewhere else and do something else. I am not happy when I have to leave a quest and come back and finish it later because some idiot is intent upon ruining my game.

So my question to Zenimax employees is: How do you anticipate players dealing with this? Really? You made this game. You had to expect this would happen. What do you want players to do?

Yes, twelve hours later, I am still quite angry.