Sap Tank PvP build help needed

Tzadik · February 2016

Hello people.

I have vet11 Dunmer magicka nigtblade which I'm playing as a sap tank. But I would need some help from experienced players - if somebody plays a sap tank

My main problem is that I don't do enough dmg in PvP and that I can't stay alive long time on my own (or if focused) which pretty much destroys the whole point of a sap tank build.

So, here is my build:
1 bar (s&b) : swallow soul, mass hysteria, sap essence, defensive stance, siphoning attacks - ult: devouring batstorm
2 bar (resto if alone or small scale, dual wield if zerging): swallow soul (I use it on both bars for healing buff), concealed weapon, proxy/refreshing path/healing ward, impale/blessing of restoration, dark cloak, ulti: replenishing barrier/shooting star

I run 2x heavy and 5x light. 5x Kagrenac's Hope and 3/4x Magnus. I'm thinking of switching to Clever Alchemist once patch comes out (which kinda made me sad for not picking an Argonian lol). Right now my gear is vet9 purple.

I have around 300 CP. I also have Alchemy passive Medicinal Use which I find to be really good for this build.

With all this I don't even have 2k spell power

Aslo, I don't really know what to do in 1v1

Anyhow, I saw few sap tank builds for pve, but I haven't seen anything for pvp. I would appreciate any help

jpeltor · February 2016

Tzadik wrote: »

Hello people.

I have vet11 Dunmer magicka nigtblade which I'm playing as a sap tank. But I would need some help from experienced players - if somebody plays a sap tank My main problem is that I don't do enough dmg in PvP and that I can't stay alive long time on my own (or if focused) which pretty much destroys the whole point of a sap tank build.

So, here is my build:
1 bar (s&b) : swallow soul, mass hysteria, sap essence, defensive stance, siphoning attacks - ult: devouring batstorm
2 bar (resto if alone or small scale, dual wield if zerging): swallow soul (I use it on both bars for healing buff), concealed weapon, proxy/refreshing path/healing ward, impale/blessing of restoration, dark cloak, ulti: replenishing barrier/shooting star

I run 2x heavy and 5x light. 5x Kagrenac's Hope and 3/4x Magnus. I'm thinking of switching to Clever Alchemist once patch comes out (which kinda made me sad for not picking an Argonian lol). Right now my gear is vet9 purple.

I have around 300 CP. I also have Alchemy passive Medicinal Use which I find to be really good for this build.

With all this I don't even have 2k spell power Aslo, I don't really know what to do in 1v1

Anyhow, I saw few sap tank builds for pve, but I haven't seen anything for pvp. I would appreciate any help

You'll have a tough time in a 1v1 with <2k spell damage. My PvP sap tank had 2.3k spell damage unbuffed and I had trouble killing people 1v1.

Once you hit v16 you could go 5 kags, 3 arch-mage, 1 molag kena for added spell damage. Also, do you have a jewelry set? And does your jewelry have spell damage enchants?

DHale · February 2016

Sap tank is ok for pve but don't try it in pvp the 3-4 ppl that do use it can pull it off in a big group with other support and healing. You will get totally wrecked also when I do see it I stay at range and burst them down. Sap tank did used to be viable but not anymore. The damage and healing nerf in 1.6 severely impacted that skill and play style. For those few ppl to pull it off the damage is less than three k per cast so to kill someone with that little damage is unlikely you could do equal damage doing funnel health... likely more and better healing. Now is sap essence is a great ability to cast in conjuction with other abilities yes it is. Works really well on a keep flag in lag or in a keep postern... On a scroll, resource, etc...

LegacyDM · February 2016

DHale wrote: »

Sap tank is ok for pve but don't try it in pvp the 3-4 ppl that do use it can pull it off in a big group with other support and healing. You will get totally wrecked also when I do see it I stay at range and burst them down. Sap tank did used to be viable but not anymore. The damage and healing nerf in 1.6 severely impacted that skill and play style. For those few ppl to pull it off the damage is less than three k per cast so to kill someone with that little damage is unlikely you could do equal damage doing funnel health... likely more and better healing. Now is sap essence is a great ability to cast in conjuction with other abilities yes it is. Works really well on a keep flag in lag or in a keep postern... On a scroll, resource, etc...

Not true. I run sap tank and am very successful in pvp. Now if your eluding to the fact that this build doesn't have burst you are correct. This build is more about running your opponent out of resources and healing through the damage. This build is extremely effective in group pvp play or 1vx vice 1v1.

Tzadik wrote: »

Hello people.

I have vet11 Dunmer magicka nigtblade which I'm playing as a sap tank. But I would need some help from experienced players - if somebody plays a sap tank My main problem is that I don't do enough dmg in PvP and that I can't stay alive long time on my own (or if focused) which pretty much destroys the whole point of a sap tank build.

So, here is my build:
1 bar (s&b) : swallow soul, mass hysteria, sap essence, defensive stance, siphoning attacks - ult: devouring batstorm
2 bar (resto if alone or small scale, dual wield if zerging): swallow soul (I use it on both bars for healing buff), concealed weapon, proxy/refreshing path/healing ward, impale/blessing of restoration, dark cloak, ulti: replenishing barrier/shooting star

I run 2x heavy and 5x light. 5x Kagrenac's Hope and 3/4x Magnus. I'm thinking of switching to Clever Alchemist once patch comes out (which kinda made me sad for not picking an Argonian lol). Right now my gear is vet9 purple.

I have around 300 CP. I also have Alchemy passive Medicinal Use which I find to be really good for this build.

With all this I don't even have 2k spell power Aslo, I don't really know what to do in 1v1

Anyhow, I saw few sap tank builds for pve, but I haven't seen anything for pvp. I would appreciate any help

Sap tank is not an easy role to play but if you can master it, it is very fun and extremely effective in both pvp and pve. Your on the right track. Go 5 piece krag and 4 piece Magnus with dual wield swords. The ultimate goal is to get the undaunted scourger malubeth monster helm set for the extra healing. Get your undaunted mettle up. Get willpower rings and necklace. If you use 4 piece Magnus you can get away with replacing magicka recovery with spell damage on all jewelry pieces. Get the Orzegna (SP?) food (5k Max health and 400+ magicka regen). Use atronach mundus stone. Put all cp points in quick recovery, thermaturge, bless, magicka reduction, magicka recovery, and split evenly between hardy, elemental resistance, and crit resistance. if I use 4 piece Magnus with krag I'm sitting at 2504 magicka recovery and 2660 ubuffed spell damage. But since you will be spamming sap essence you will always have the 20% damage increase running pushing you abive 3k+. Use swallow soul for 8% more healing and for situations at range like shield stacking mine laying sorcs. Use sap essence against DKs since it can't be reflected. Spam sap essence and refreshing paths in large groups during group pvp play. Put refreshing path, swallow soul, sap essence on bar 1 because they will benefit most from increased spell power for heals.go resto on bar 2. You can go sword and board but I've noticed that as a magicka based build I don't have the stamina to sustain blocking on sword and board for large group pvp and I lose a lot of damage vice dual wield. And of course to be most effective you need gold vr 16 gear.

Feel free to pm me with questions.

Tzadik · February 2016

Thank you very much for the insights!

I will message you with question

Scamandros · February 2016

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Sap tank is ok for pve but don't try it in pvp the 3-4 ppl that do use it can pull it off in a big group with other support and healing. You will get totally wrecked also when I do see it I stay at range and burst them down. Sap tank did used to be viable but not anymore. The damage and healing nerf in 1.6 severely impacted that skill and play style. For those few ppl to pull it off the damage is less than three k per cast so to kill someone with that little damage is unlikely you could do equal damage doing funnel health... likely more and better healing. Now is sap essence is a great ability to cast in conjuction with other abilities yes it is. Works really well on a keep flag in lag or in a keep postern... On a scroll, resource, etc...

Not true. I run sap tank and am very successful in pvp. Now if your eluding to the fact that this build doesn't have burst you are correct. This build is more about running your opponent out of resources and healing through the damage. This build is extremely effective in group pvp play or 1vx vice 1v1.

Tzadik wrote: »

Hello people.

I have vet11 Dunmer magicka nigtblade which I'm playing as a sap tank. But I would need some help from experienced players - if somebody plays a sap tank My main problem is that I don't do enough dmg in PvP and that I can't stay alive long time on my own (or if focused) which pretty much destroys the whole point of a sap tank build.

So, here is my build:
1 bar (s&b) : swallow soul, mass hysteria, sap essence, defensive stance, siphoning attacks - ult: devouring batstorm
2 bar (resto if alone or small scale, dual wield if zerging): swallow soul (I use it on both bars for healing buff), concealed weapon, proxy/refreshing path/healing ward, impale/blessing of restoration, dark cloak, ulti: replenishing barrier/shooting star

I run 2x heavy and 5x light. 5x Kagrenac's Hope and 3/4x Magnus. I'm thinking of switching to Clever Alchemist once patch comes out (which kinda made me sad for not picking an Argonian lol). Right now my gear is vet9 purple.

I have around 300 CP. I also have Alchemy passive Medicinal Use which I find to be really good for this build.

With all this I don't even have 2k spell power Aslo, I don't really know what to do in 1v1

Anyhow, I saw few sap tank builds for pve, but I haven't seen anything for pvp. I would appreciate any help

Sap tank is not an easy role to play but if you can master it, it is very fun and extremely effective in both pvp and pve. Your on the right track. Go 5 piece krag and 4 piece Magnus with dual wield swords. The ultimate goal is to get the undaunted scourger malubeth monster helm set for the extra healing. Get your undaunted mettle up. Get willpower rings and necklace. If you use 4 piece Magnus you can get away with replacing magicka recovery with spell damage on all jewelry pieces. Get the Orzegna (SP?) food (5k Max health and 400+ magicka regen). Use atronach mundus stone. Put all cp points in quick recovery, thermaturge, bless, magicka reduction, magicka recovery, and split evenly between hardy, elemental resistance, and crit resistance. if I use 4 piece Magnus with krag I'm sitting at 2504 magicka recovery and 2660 ubuffed spell damage. But since you will be spamming sap essence you will always have the 20% damage increase running pushing you abive 3k+. Use swallow soul for 8% more healing and for situations at range like shield stacking mine laying sorcs. Use sap essence against DKs since it can't be reflected. Spam sap essence and refreshing paths in large groups during group pvp play. Put refreshing path, swallow soul, sap essence on bar 1 because they will benefit most from increased spell power for heals.go resto on bar 2. You can go sword and board but I've noticed that as a magicka based build I don't have the stamina to sustain blocking on sword and board for large group pvp and I lose a lot of damage vice dual wield. And of course to be most effective you need gold vr 16 gear.

Feel free to pm me with questions.

All good advice, can confirm malubeth is great for sap tank. Had a couple funny moments where I got knocked down out of stamina but just my HoTs and the hp leech beams kept me alive through it all.

Also you can cast refreshing path on either bar, when you swap to dual wield/resto the damage and healing ticks will update to the new spell damage.

Also I'm sure you all know already, but I will mention impen is love, impen is life. No more random 10k crits to ruin your fight

Gamerscape2007 · February 2016

The Important thing about Being a Sap tank (Imo.) Is 1. Healing received. Get enough Healing received to counter both the Cyrodil debuff and the defile debuff. Remember, while your healing is nerfed, you'd still have more healing than other players.

2. Boost Magicka/Spell Damage. Not just because you can burst your opponent, but since healing is increased with spell damage as well, it's a damn good idea to boost it. That also means that dualwielding can be a more offensive option to tank.

3. Damage mitigation. The more damage mitigation you have, the more likely your heals (And more importantly, Hot.) can catch up the damage you're getting

So yeah, all three can really make you a powerful tank if you wanted to. I can share my build if you want.

Tzadik · February 2016

Thx.

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

I can share my build if you want.

I would really appreciate that.

Also what are your (and others) thoughts on being vampire. Imho vampire is quite good for sap tank (cause of bonus regeneration, cool ulti, sneak stuff and dmg reduction) and i don't see too much downfalls in pvp except in IC where enemies are likely to use fighters guilds abilities.

Also, what are your thoughts on Clever Alchemist set? Would that replace Krag?

Gamerscape2007 · February 2016

@Tzadik Right, So I'm an Argonian Nightblade. Argonian for their healing received passive. The Equipment I'm planning on using next patch is...

5p Clever alch. (Magicka Enchant.)
2p Heavy Mark of the Pariah. (Magicka Enchant.)

Debating whenever or not to use Impent on all of them vs Reinforced. Anyway...

3p Jewelry Mark of Pariah. (Spell Damage Enchant.)

Torug's pact Dual Wield swords. And Maelstorm Restro. All having the defending trait.

Skills in order:
Dual Wield: 1. Swallow Soul/2. Cripple/ 3. Sap Essense./4. Magicka Det or Lotus fan/5. Refreshing Darkness. U Soul Teather.
Restro: 1. Dark cloak/2. Rapid Regen./ 3.Siphoning Attack./ 4. Double Take./ Quick Siphon or Blessing of protection.

http://deltiasgaming.com/champion/?b=640032000000000000000011004300006400000000000000001e35000000000000002f1e

Using all 501 Champion Points.

And for Mondus Stone, Ritual.

And yes, I am a vampire.

jimijac0me · February 2016

I play a siphon/funnel based build in PVP and it's very effective... A couple of things to remember regarding your lower spell damage - you're not VR16 yet or using Gold VR16 weapons/gear so your spell damage will be a bit low compared to a lot of numbers posted around the place until then.

I think you will struggle until that point to do much as much burst damage.

For a long time I had a very hard time doing decent damage with this play style but once I reached the higher spell power and a good burst rotation while keeping Minor/Major Ward/Resolve up for mitigation, my build finally came together and is very well rounded.

Edit: I'm a Vamp as well.

Torbschka · February 2016

keep in mind, key from a sap tank was always to recover your stam / magicka with siphoning attacks. U can do this by path or (right now the btter option) through caltrops.

Anyway, next patch this playstyle gets again a huge nerf with the change to siphoning attacks, it will not longer procc on dots (so no caltrops, path etc.)

I wouldnt recommend dual swords on THIS patch, cuz u can have nearly endless stamina and perma blocking while casting sap essence and because of SA gains through caltrops / path. Next patch, we know less then Jon Snow how this playstyle will work, maybe there are a more offensive builds with dual wield which are more effective (not saying it is bad now, I just dont think it is very good, key for a sap tank was always to perma block and manage stamina through SA).

Some exmaple videos:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4BZuvPMIFlk (current patch)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=BejB-bzkJ9w ["classic" sap tank)

Xvorg · February 2016

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

The Important thing about Being a Sap tank (Imo.) Is 1. Healing received. Get enough Healing received to counter both the Cyrodil debuff and the defile debuff. Remember, while your healing is nerfed, you'd still have more healing than other players.

2. Boost Magicka/Spell Damage. Not just because you can burst your opponent, but since healing is increased with spell damage as well, it's a damn good idea to boost it. That also means that dualwielding can be a more offensive option to tank.

3. Damage mitigation. The more damage mitigation you have, the more likely your heals (And more importantly, Hot.) can catch up the damage you're getting

So yeah, all three can really make you a powerful tank if you wanted to. I can share my build if you want.

You missed the 4th rule: Block everything (sap essence woks in permablocking)

mchermie · February 2016

You wont be able to 1v1 skilled players with a sap-tank-build this patch, but it can work really well in a group or while zergsurfing.
Try to get an as high as possible magicka-pool while also having quite a bit of stam so you can continue blocking. I would recommend invisbats over devouring as you will be able to get quite a bit of stam back + get drained a lot less from enemy attacks (if youre bosmer/khajit your damage will also increase by 10% when invisible)
I always have purge on my offbar to remove mark which will keep me visible while using invisbats
For solo/smallman I would recomend Malabeth, while in a group of 8+ Bloodspawn would be better so you can bomb with your group more often