I jumped on a Magicka NB last night on the PTS. Went into the 1st dungeon I could see, im not familiar with Magicka NB so I was a bit nervous when I got to the boss. I **** you not, I think my health bar dipped maybe once by a fraction and the fight was over in what felt like 5 seconds. Very disappointed. I think I'll give this DLC a miss, it's just boringly easy and the content's a bit too solo player for my liking.

I am not in the same boat as the OP at all, but providing challenging content for all players at all levels would be good for the game. If there is so little challenging content past a certain point of development, those players will likely get very bored repeating the same content daily.

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Masuimi wrote: »

This is probably the easiest game i've ever played. I don't even know how some of you can find it fun anymore. There is literally no challenge outside of malestrom arena and even that is not hard.


To all you people saying if you want a challenge remove your gear/CP points.. NO.
A game should not be made in a way where the only way you can get a challenge is by gimping yourself. That is not how MMOs are supposed to work.

The CP system is making people God Like and some people want them to increase the CPs. The whole CP system was an extremely lazy and easy system to just implement. Its just stats increase. Now it makes the game impossible to balance because people the same level or vet rank can be so far from equal playing field. A level 30 character on an alt with 500 CP is on a different planet than a new player with 0 CP. Even at Vet ranks, somebody with a lot more CP will be a lot stronger. The CP system i personally think was a horrible way to implement progression in the game but i bet it was the cheapest and easiest way to implement progression.

Yeah, the CP system should be about horizontal progression -- a bunch of points everyone has that are inexpensive to re-allocate. Getting even just to the cap takes too much effort and the cap will continue to be moved up. But the idea of everyone having 501 CP that they can use to diversify builds is a cool idea.

Volkodav wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

This content is made so a new player can run it, without champion points, without basic knowledge of skills and buffs, wears looted random gear and food/drink/potions.

If you desire a challenge, respec and remove all your champion points + wear looted gear, like a new player. Then go and join a group, with new players who don't know mechanics of dungeons - and walk into a dungeon with them.

People say this, but I'm sorry, this is ridiculous:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOSzX09QX-g

Well,I'm glad you arent one of the Devs then.Lower level players deserve to learn to play and to want to take that from them is both selfish and ridiculous.

How does one learn to play when one is never challenged to heal, CC break, or even use their abilities? These new players are getting a disservice by being mollycoddled and not being challenged to even approach mediocre play. Then they are thrown into environments that do challenge them such as PvP or with more experienced players who lose patience with "Pugs" in the more challenging vet dungeons.

It's neither selfish or ridiculous to recognize there is a fine distinction between making open world content too hard that newer players would struggle against and so easy that the game gives them no reason to try and explore more effective builds.

remilafo wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

This content is made so a new player can run it, without champion points, without basic knowledge of skills and buffs, wears looted random gear and food/drink/potions.

If you desire a challenge, respec and remove all your champion points + wear looted gear, like a new player. Then go and join a group, with new players who don't know mechanics of dungeons - and walk into a dungeon with them.

This.

Katahdin wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

This content is made so a new player can run it, without champion points, without basic knowledge of skills and buffs, wears looted random gear and food/drink/potions.

If you desire a challenge, respec and remove all your champion points + wear looted gear, like a new player. Then go and join a group, with new players who don't know mechanics of dungeons - and walk into a dungeon with them.

This.

Katahdin wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

This content is made so a new player can run it, without champion points, without basic knowledge of skills and buffs, wears looted random gear and food/drink/potions.

If you desire a challenge, respec and remove all your champion points + wear looted gear, like a new player. Then go and join a group, with new players who don't know mechanics of dungeons - and walk into a dungeon with them.

This.

Agreed.This.

this... :-)

This

Selstad wrote: »

I remember in the beginning, the level 1 to 50 was easy-ish, and VT1 through VT10 was a complete mess. You either cruised or you got smashed, there weren't a definitive "breakage" point where you knew you had overstepped your capabilities. That's a problem as well, because you can't be certain if it's your capabilities or the game being stupidly difficult.

Storm antronachs per example, they were a complete nightmare to solo. Had a ton of health, 1 shotting abilities and some attacks that were more or less impossible to move away from due to your stamina bar already being depleted. Then you had other enemies that died if you as much as sneezed in their direction.

Finding the right balance seems to be one of the most difficult things in any MMO. WoW per example has taken it to the extreme and become one of the easiest levelling curves. I even went so far as trying the "iron man challenge" and after 20 levels, I gave up, not of difficulty but of boredom. Even in white items, I 2-3 hitted enemies. Then we have the other end of the spectrum, The secret world. Even as a leech build assault rifle / fist weapon hybrid, some quests just simply take the life out of you for no apparent reason. For those who haven't played The secret world; assault rifle leech heals me for 100% of the damage I do, while fist weapons are good for shielding.

Lets twist this discussion around a bit though; What to change? How to change it? And how to balance it? We can all agree that too easy is not fun either, at least I get that impression reading through this thread. So how can we "sprite" up things a bit, making it challenging without being frighting to new players?

Have things actually ramp up, but slowly. And have npcs actually describe how the mechanics wor could help. And have mobs actively train mechanics up, because for things like doshia, there were really no mechanical Training. Maybe have her imps cast similar spells before the boss, because if im remebering correctly an npc or a book does outline how to beat her, but its off to the side or in the middle of the fight.

Wgt does this with 'smash those rifts or be overwhelmed' being a mechanic you are gradually introduced to before the planar inhibitor. All dungeons do it actually, with each boss using a mechanic you will need in a later fight.

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

If you're too OP for lower level stuff on your lower level character, do something about it that makes it challenging.

Run group dungeons in 2's not fours. If that's still too easy I know guys that solo group dungeons.

Go do the world bosses in orsinium with 2 people.

Take on the bosses in IC.

There's tons of stuff for lower level chars to do that's challenging away from openworld, you're either too lazy to do it or you aren't as OP as you want us to believe you are.

*sigh

Lenikus wrote: »

So... Recap.
OP is being entitled to brag about being so 4w3s0m3 that his 1337 skillz are too much for the current dungeon system, and then he asked for a "moar hard" difficulty toggle, like regular, vet, and probably 'oky, OP's harder mode for oh-so-awesome-playerz' options.

Then someone posted a vid despicting how they coded mobs to not kill afk'rs (try this at home, AI actually hit you more effectively if you are not idle)

Fairly nice idea, for a new dungeon mode.
Awfully and horribly executed by someone who did not know what he was typing.
OP should wear green items if that's the case.

...What?...translation anyone?

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

If you're too OP for lower level stuff on your lower level character, do something about it that makes it challenging.

Run group dungeons in 2's not fours. If that's still too easy I know guys that solo group dungeons.

Go do the world bosses in orsinium with 2 people.

Take on the bosses in IC.

There's tons of stuff for lower level chars to do that's challenging away from openworld, you're either too lazy to do it or you aren't as OP as you want us to believe you are.

Good idea. What comes after those things? I've solo'd vet dungeons and wrothgar world bosses. I turn to doing lower-level content on a new character without using CPs and using trash gear, and still find it too easy. What then?

coolermh wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

@coolermh, would you say this is a correct paraphrasing of your OP?

'Hello everyone, im overpowered. I know im overpowered, and here are the specific reasons why im overpowered. Because of this established fact, i did not enjoy a select bit of content. Is there any way that we can get something added to the game so that i can choose to change my experience without giving up on gear and progression?'

The emphasis on choose because scaling is usually optional. And because Ive been arguing that you mean scaling to cp if and only if you have that many cp.

Basically yes.

Leet hate is real and blinding. I seriously think most stopped reading during your descriptions of the dungeon runs.

I was no

Shunravi wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

@coolermh, would you say this is a correct paraphrasing of your OP?

'Hello everyone, im overpowered. I know im overpowered, and here are the specific reasons why im overpowered. Because of this established fact, i did not enjoy a select bit of content. Is there any way that we can get something added to the game so that i can choose to change my experience without giving up on gear and progression?'

The emphasis on choose because scaling is usually optional. And because Ive been arguing that you mean scaling to cp if and only if you have that many cp.

Basically yes.

Leet hate is real and blinding. I seriously think most stopped reading during your descriptions of the dungeon runs.

Yea...didn't really mean to sound leet (whatever that means)...

Shunravi wrote: »

Selstad wrote: »

I remember in the beginning, the level 1 to 50 was easy-ish, and VT1 through VT10 was a complete mess. You either cruised or you got smashed, there weren't a definitive "breakage" point where you knew you had overstepped your capabilities. That's a problem as well, because you can't be certain if it's your capabilities or the game being stupidly difficult.

Storm antronachs per example, they were a complete nightmare to solo. Had a ton of health, 1 shotting abilities and some attacks that were more or less impossible to move away from due to your stamina bar already being depleted. Then you had other enemies that died if you as much as sneezed in their direction.

Finding the right balance seems to be one of the most difficult things in any MMO. WoW per example has taken it to the extreme and become one of the easiest levelling curves. I even went so far as trying the "iron man challenge" and after 20 levels, I gave up, not of difficulty but of boredom. Even in white items, I 2-3 hitted enemies. Then we have the other end of the spectrum, The secret world. Even as a leech build assault rifle / fist weapon hybrid, some quests just simply take the life out of you for no apparent reason. For those who haven't played The secret world; assault rifle leech heals me for 100% of the damage I do, while fist weapons are good for shielding.

Lets twist this discussion around a bit though; What to change? How to change it? And how to balance it? We can all agree that too easy is not fun either, at least I get that impression reading through this thread. So how can we "sprite" up things a bit, making it challenging without being frighting to new players?

Have things actually ramp up, but slowly. And have npcs actually describe how the mechanics wor could help. And have mobs actively train mechanics up, because for things like doshia, there were really no mechanical Training. Maybe have her imps cast similar spells before the boss, because if im remebering correctly an npc or a book does outline how to beat her, but its off to the side or in the middle of the fight.

Wgt does this with 'smash those rifts or be overwhelmed' being a mechanic you are gradually introduced to before the planar inhibitor. All dungeons do it actually, with each boss using a mechanic you will need in a later fight.

They have in some measures done that. 1 to 50 is an "introduction" to the game, while VR1 to VR16 is "ramping up" the difficulty. Problem with difficulty though is finding that "sweet spot". Mostly because it's quite individual what others make out as difficult. Yours might be different than mine.

Let me just elaborate that a bit. I'm an old gamer in terms of being a gamer for close to 27 years now (started out when I was 5, yikes). In my time, difficulty was, well, it was the 8 bit / 16 bit platform era. The games weren't that big, but they were difficult. Heck it was even dubbed "NES hard". The first Ninja Gaiden game is one of those.

Would this difficulty work today? No, I doubt it. It's too narrow a market now, too many competitors and too much money at stake.

I always like these difficulty discussions because there's always a high flare to it, everyone seems to have their opinion what makes the perfect difficulty. I think that having a "ramping up" to a certain level, isn't such a bad idea, meaning that using CC, interrupts and such become increasingly more important to survive. The true difficulty though, should be reserved for higher end raiding, and I think ESO really lacks in that department. The old - tested - formulation of high end raiding, is in my view the cornerstone of any MMO. The raid resetting once a week, meaning you have 1 week to take down the entire raid, a lot of fun. And that is where I think the biggest potential of this game is; introducing some good old fashioned raids. Then you don't need to ramp the difficulty too high on levelling, sure you can tweak it a bit, but you can defend an easier curve in levelling if the raids continue on the difficulty curve. As it stands, I don't think ESO has anything that qualifies as a raid in terms of 10 bosses, weekly lock-out kind of thing.

Selstad wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Selstad wrote: »

I remember in the beginning, the level 1 to 50 was easy-ish, and VT1 through VT10 was a complete mess. You either cruised or you got smashed, there weren't a definitive "breakage" point where you knew you had overstepped your capabilities. That's a problem as well, because you can't be certain if it's your capabilities or the game being stupidly difficult.

Storm antronachs per example, they were a complete nightmare to solo. Had a ton of health, 1 shotting abilities and some attacks that were more or less impossible to move away from due to your stamina bar already being depleted. Then you had other enemies that died if you as much as sneezed in their direction.

Finding the right balance seems to be one of the most difficult things in any MMO. WoW per example has taken it to the extreme and become one of the easiest levelling curves. I even went so far as trying the "iron man challenge" and after 20 levels, I gave up, not of difficulty but of boredom. Even in white items, I 2-3 hitted enemies. Then we have the other end of the spectrum, The secret world. Even as a leech build assault rifle / fist weapon hybrid, some quests just simply take the life out of you for no apparent reason. For those who haven't played The secret world; assault rifle leech heals me for 100% of the damage I do, while fist weapons are good for shielding.

Lets twist this discussion around a bit though; What to change? How to change it? And how to balance it? We can all agree that too easy is not fun either, at least I get that impression reading through this thread. So how can we "sprite" up things a bit, making it challenging without being frighting to new players?

Have things actually ramp up, but slowly. And have npcs actually describe how the mechanics wor could help. And have mobs actively train mechanics up, because for things like doshia, there were really no mechanical Training. Maybe have her imps cast similar spells before the boss, because if im remebering correctly an npc or a book does outline how to beat her, but its off to the side or in the middle of the fight.

Wgt does this with 'smash those rifts or be overwhelmed' being a mechanic you are gradually introduced to before the planar inhibitor. All dungeons do it actually, with each boss using a mechanic you will need in a later fight.

They have in some measures done that. 1 to 50 is an "introduction" to the game, while VR1 to VR16 is "ramping up" the difficulty. Problem with difficulty though is finding that "sweet spot". Mostly because it's quite individual what others make out as difficult. Yours might be different than mine.

Let me just elaborate that a bit. I'm an old gamer in terms of being a gamer for close to 27 years now (started out when I was 5, yikes). In my time, difficulty was, well, it was the 8 bit / 16 bit platform era. The games weren't that big, but they were difficult. Heck it was even dubbed "NES hard". The first Ninja Gaiden game is one of those.

Would this difficulty work today? No, I doubt it. It's too narrow a market now, too many competitors and too much money at stake.

I always like these difficulty discussions because there's always a high flare to it, everyone seems to have their opinion what makes the perfect difficulty. I think that having a "ramping up" to a certain level, isn't such a bad idea, meaning that using CC, interrupts and such become increasingly more important to survive. The true difficulty though, should be reserved for higher end raiding, and I think ESO really lacks in that department. The old - tested - formulation of high end raiding, is in my view the cornerstone of any MMO. The raid resetting once a week, meaning you have 1 week to take down the entire raid, a lot of fun. And that is where I think the biggest potential of this game is; introducing some good old fashioned raids. Then you don't need to ramp the difficulty too high on levelling, sure you can tweak it a bit, but you can defend an easier curve in levelling if the raids continue on the difficulty curve. As it stands, I don't think ESO has anything that qualifies as a raid in terms of 10 bosses, weekly lock-out kind of thing.

Oh, i get ya. But in my perspective as someone who pugs, i run into a lot of people at relatively high levels who dont know or dont do simple things like bash a chargeup, avoid red, or know how certain npcs operate. So my reply to you strms mostly from that perspective. Its amazing how simple encouragement and advice about mechanics (not even gear, rotation, or cp) can change how effective someone can be. And thats simple mechanical knowhow that the game should have exposed them to by that point.

Of course, my reply is to make it actually easier first by ensuring mechanical knowledge. Which is an essential first step before any actual dificulty changes.

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

I'm with OP. Large swathes of this game are mind numbling easy.

Respec to remove the champ points. Take off the set gear or just run it without gear.

If we make low level areas harder for veteran players who can roflstomp content because of champ points, set gear, glyphs on armor, pots and food, not to mention already knowing the content which new players don't have access to or just don't know about yet, newer players will quit in frustration.

This is not good for the longevity of the game.

You however do have enough knowledge to make it more challenging for yourself.

This is just so ridiculous. I get what you're spitting but MMOs are about replayability, challenge, progression, etc.

Gimping myself to accommodate for lazy game design, and bandaid nerfs to content difficulty because of solo criers etc is not going to inject new life into the game for this perspective.

This isn't about solo players and its not about vet rank characters. This IS about newer players bring able to complete content DESIGNED for them.

What is rediculous is people putting 300+ CP, set gear, runes, food on a lowbie and running a dungeon they have already run 50 times and expecting it to be challenging. Then expecting ZoS to make it harder for them while ignoring the new player without which the game will die 100 times faster than remaking every low level area harder so your OP lowbie can be challenged. They should never have allowed alts to use CP until vet ranks.

I don't have a vet character...I will by Saturday. My BFF and myself quit shortly after beta and came back recently for a fresh start to see how game progressed.

Is the game still dayam easy? Yes, yes it is.

Before cp it was gear. There will always be a scapegoat.

How is gear a scapegoat?

Like cp it is a factor people blame for a condition.

Before 1.6 we had very similar discussions going on about gear. Even when people posted videos of doing nearly everything in the game absolutaly naked, people still yelled that the game was only easy because of gear. There was a trials guild built around the concept of being able to do everything naked. My own guild and several others did instances naked. 1.6 simply switched the qq from gear to cp ( and in the case of the person you quoted, both)

So you're still pointing out how badly designed the difficulty of content is

well, yea.

Shunravi wrote: »

Oh, i get ya. But in my perspective as someone who pugs, i run into a lot of people at relatively high levels who dont know or dont do simple things like bash a chargeup, avoid red, or know how certain npcs operate. So my reply to you strms mostly from that perspective. Its amazing how simple encouragement and advice about mechanics (not even gear, rotation, or cp) can change how effective someone can be. And thats simple mechanical knowhow that the game should have exposed them to by that point.

Of course, my reply is to make it actually easier first by ensuring mechanical knowledge. Which is an essential first step before any actual dificulty changes.

I consider things such as CC, interrupting and such as a "core" mechanic of the game, meaning that you should know about it relatively easy during the first few minutes of the game, and if I remember correctly, you get some introduction during the first 3 levels in that Coldharbour part starting zone around those things. It's been nearly 2 years since I did it so correct me if I'm wrong.