Saving Keys vs Hoarding AP.

Turelus · February 2016

Yes this is another one of those AP threads.

So with recent data mining showing that there are new boss sets coming to ESO everyone is saving their gold/silver keys once again for the day when these are added and they can open chests like crazy to try and get one.

We saw the same thing happen when the game was updated from VR14 to VR16. People saved up all their keys for a couple of months so they could be first to get a shot at VR16 shoulders including the new Imperial City sets.

So once again (and I am sorry to call you guys out on this) @Wrobel and @ZOS_BrianWheeler why is it that THIS is acceptable gameplay where a player doing PvE every day can hoard rewards and instantly gear up, but those who have stack of useless AP are not allowed the same?

Should we add a cap on the keys that can be held by characters? Make them like treasure maps and you can only hold one at a time? (thus forcing players to open chests daily)

KhajiitiLizard · February 2016

No... it's a key for a reason. If they didn't want people to save them they would have the gear be the quest reward right from the NPC rather than opening a chest.

NoMoreChillies · February 2016

read some more and discover the new things you can spend AP on

fastolfv_ESO · February 2016

yah overpriced forward camps and 0 updated gear

Turelus · February 2016

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

No... it's a key for a reason. If they didn't want people to save them they would have the gear be the quest reward right from the NPC rather than opening a chest.

If they didn't want people to save AP why didn't they have all gear come from rewards for the worthy or cap it from the start.
The point being made is their argument of "people would gear up too fast" is invalided by the fact other areas of the game allow exactly that behaviour by a different fashion.

Note I am not arguing for changes to the keys system, only pointing out the flaw of their argument.

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

read some more and discover the new things you can spend AP on

Motifs, boss helms... still none of the old VR14 sets which both PvP and PvE players could be using for builds were they updated.

Shader_Shibes · February 2016

Turelus wrote: »

Yes this is another one of those AP threads.

So with recent data mining showing that there are new boss sets coming to ESO everyone is saving their gold/silver keys once again for the day when these are added and they can open chests like crazy to try and get one.

We saw the same thing happen when the game was updated from VR14 to VR16. People saved up all their keys for a couple of months so they could be first to get a shot at VR16 shoulders including the new Imperial City sets.

So once again (and I am sorry to call you guys out on this) @Wrobel and @ZOS_BrianWheeler why is it that THIS is acceptable gameplay where a player doing PvE every day can hoard rewards and instantly gear up, but those who have stack of useless AP are not allowed the same?

Should we add a cap on the keys that can be held by characters? Make them like treasure maps and you can only hold one at a time? (thus forcing players to open chests daily)

You do realise those sets were datamined, like 6-12 months ago? There is no evidence to prove they are even gonna be released.

However i agree with you on AP thing, but didn't Wrobel say hey might place a cap?

Turelus · February 2016

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Yes this is another one of those AP threads.

So with recent data mining showing that there are new boss sets coming to ESO everyone is saving their gold/silver keys once again for the day when these are added and they can open chests like crazy to try and get one.

We saw the same thing happen when the game was updated from VR14 to VR16. People saved up all their keys for a couple of months so they could be first to get a shot at VR16 shoulders including the new Imperial City sets.

So once again (and I am sorry to call you guys out on this) @Wrobel and @ZOS_BrianWheeler why is it that THIS is acceptable gameplay where a player doing PvE every day can hoard rewards and instantly gear up, but those who have stack of useless AP are not allowed the same?

Should we add a cap on the keys that can be held by characters? Make them like treasure maps and you can only hold one at a time? (thus forcing players to open chests daily)

You do realise those sets were datamined, like 6-12 months ago? There is no evidence to prove they are even gonna be released.

However i agree with you on AP thing, but didn't Wrobel say hey might place a cap?

Yeah, I am not freaking out about the cap. More just annoyed about the arguments used to defend not upgrading gear to VR16. I think anyone who applied some thought to this understood the entire reason for it was to make people go into IC/Wrothgar to gear up and thus generate need/desire for that content. I do hope they learnt their lesson on this though and we don't see the next level update (under the CP progression system) require purchase of a DLC to gear up.

As for when the sets were mined I don't know to be honest, I just know that most of the PvE groups have been saving keys since the PTS update as that's supposedly where new information was held along with confirmation (somewhere!) from ZOS that sets would all be scaled, undaunted sets would be changed/fixed and new ones added.

Additionally for someone who has already geared up fully there is no sense in using keys vs saving them knowing eventually new VR dungeons (and thus sets) will come to the game.

Aleraon · February 2016

The difference is that no matter how many keys you save using them is still subject to the atrocious rng system, whereas buying gear straight out with AP is not.

That said though I don't believe there should be any sort of AP cap and pvp sets should be updated as necessary whenever something new is released. If you've got the AP then you should be able to spend it however and on whatever you like just as you can with gold.

If Devs want to extend the life of the game or dlc then they should introduce sufficient content for people to actually play, not caps or new tedious grinds that frustrates them and makes them play elsewhere.

Molag_Crow · February 2016

Aleraon wrote: »

The difference is that no matter how many keys you save using them is still subject to the atrocious rng system, whereas buying gear straight out with AP is not.

That said though I don't believe there should be any sort of AP cap and pvp sets should be updated as necessary whenever something new is released. If you've got the AP then you should be able to spend it however and on whatever you like just as you can with gold.

If Devs want to extend the life of the game or dlc then they should introduce sufficient content for people to actually play, not caps or new tedious grinds that frustrates them and makes them play elsewhere.

Exactly...

Wollust · February 2016

There is a hard cap for the amount of keys a character can hold.

leepalmer95 · February 2016

Aleraon wrote: »

The difference is that no matter how many keys you save using them is still subject to the atrocious rng system, whereas buying gear straight out with AP is not.

That said though I don't believe there should be any sort of AP cap and pvp sets should be updated as necessary whenever something new is released. If you've got the AP then you should be able to spend it however and on whatever you like just as you can with gold.

If Devs want to extend the life of the game or dlc then they should introduce sufficient content for people to actually play, not caps or new tedious grinds that frustrates them and makes them play elsewhere.

Theres rng for the vendor? Got to hope she has the sets you want with the right trait.

Turelus · February 2016

Wollust wrote: »

There is a hard cap for the amount of keys a character can hold.

However it still allows a chance of instant gearing up/access to new sets upon release of content or increase of level.

AP doesn't get this luxury because:
1. People would gear up and be unfair on those without AP.
2. PvP players would then have nothing to work towards.

These have been the arguments made and neither of them hold up very well when other areas of the game essentially allow the same thing.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Aleraon wrote: »

The difference is that no matter how many keys you save using them is still subject to the atrocious rng system, whereas buying gear straight out with AP is not.

That said though I don't believe there should be any sort of AP cap and pvp sets should be updated as necessary whenever something new is released. If you've got the AP then you should be able to spend it however and on whatever you like just as you can with gold.

If Devs want to extend the life of the game or dlc then they should introduce sufficient content for people to actually play, not caps or new tedious grinds that frustrates them and makes them play elsewhere.

Theres rng for the vendor? Got to hope she has the sets you want with the right trait.

Also don't forget that PvP bags (where most of the good sets are located) are RNG.

Wollust · February 2016

Don't misunderstand, I am completely against any punishment regarding hoarding whatever resource. If people save up, they shouldn't be punished with the lame excuses Wrobel has presented.

EsoRecon · February 2016

This thread disturbs me...

Turelus · February 2016

EsoRecon wrote: »

This thread disturbs me...

Have a cookie, hopefully it will help you unwind.

timidobserver · February 2016

Stuff bought with ap is boe. Stuff bought with keys is bop.

Turelus · February 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

Stuff bought with ap is boe. Stuff bought with keys is bop.

That wasn't an argument used by ZOS as to why we can't hav VR16 AP items in Cyrodiil. So that can't be the reason.

As I have said previously we all know the real reasons why items were not levelled for IC release. However even that reason doesn't hold up as well now with so many ways to obtain without expansions.

A delay in the gear being levelled to promote purchase of the new DLC was fine, however now that delay period should in theory be up we've been handed weak excuses as to why we can't spend AP and solutions are being looked into on how to address AP hoarding which was a direct result of the initial problem of not updating gear levels right away.

I know I sound like a broken record but this is a frustrating issue for people who either want VR16 versions of their old sets, or has some spare AP they would like to turn into gold.

willymchilybily · February 2016

you played the content and earned the currency. It is yours to spend how you wish and on what you wish. If there is nothing you wish to buy at the time fair enough keeping hold of it.

They should have a cap, and should keep introducing things to purchase with said currency so hoarding doesnt become excessive and there is always something you would like to spend your currency on.( I thought that was the point of the akaviri style. An AP sink people can make gold from or learn a cool style from, but with no influence on progression?)

If they are worried about people insta gearing they just need some to be purchasable with BiS being RNG or reward based.

the casuals can earn gear, the AP hoarders can sink AP into getting BiS,

leepalmer95 · February 2016

They could just make an AP dump and let you change ap into gold.

timidobserver · February 2016

Turelus wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Stuff bought with ap is boe. Stuff bought with keys is bop.

That wasn't an argument used by ZOS as to why we can't hav VR16 AP items in Cyrodiil. So that can't be the reason.

As I have said previously we all know the real reasons why items were not levelled for IC release. However even that reason doesn't hold up as well now with so many ways to obtain without expansions.

A delay in the gear being levelled to promote purchase of the new DLC was fine, however now that delay period should in theory be up we've been handed weak excuses as to why we can't spend AP and solutions are being looked into on how to address AP hoarding which was a direct result of the initial problem of not updating gear levels right away.

I know I sound like a broken record but this is a frustrating issue for people who either want VR16 versions of their old sets, or has some spare AP they would like to turn into gold.

They have never given a reason why it is okay to hoard keys and not AP, so I gave my opinion of what the reason is. Hoarded keys result in one person getting stuff. Hoarded ap actually impacts the whole economy.

Note: I agree entirely that AP should be usable to buy on level gear. I am just opining on their reasons.

Turelus · February 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

They could just make an AP dump and let you change ap into gold.

Still doesn't solve the issue of the tens of sets which are now (like many others in the game) cast into Oblivion because they'll never compete with VR16 sets.

There are two arguments for the sets to be upgraded.
1. People liked some of the old bonuses but the difference in VR14 and VR16 items was too good to stay using an older set. Thus they would like older sets updated.
2. People wanted to turn AP into gold and there was more demand on the armours than crafting styles.

To my understanding and ZOS (or others) may prove me wrong on this, the main reason these sets were not updated is because ZOS wanted people to play Imperial City to obtain VR16 materials/gear.

Now IC is wasteland, everyone uses sets from Wrothgar/crafting and Cyrodiil's old items remain pointless like most old content in the game.

KochDerDamonen · February 2016

I don't understand the direction they're looking at on this at all--they spent too long giving pvpers nothing new to buy with their currency so... The pvpers should stop hoarding and do what, spend it all on akiviri motifs? I suspect the reason we're not seeing sets get scaled up in TG is the level changes in DG, so we're stuck with the crappy way it is until then

f047ys3v3n · February 2016

lol, this one would like to spend his keys at a special vender to get the new pvp sets. What, no dice? Well at least pvp players wont get to circumvent rnjesus and spend thier ap to get pve gear...... Historically most good pve gear has eventually droped for pvp (infailable, vicious, masters weapons). No pvp gear has ever dropped in pve. consider also bop vs boe and i think it is apparent which side of the gear exclusion wall has been better to be on. why there is a wall is another question.

fastolfv_ESO · February 2016

ummm vr14 items having a chance to drop for the top 2% of pvp players at end of campaign after vr16 like master weapons isnt a worthy consolation prize. On top of that i have never heard of 1 person ever getting 1 so the rng to even give one out isnt working. Looks like a carebear trying to understand how pvp rewards work right there, as it stands there has been nothing to buy with AP for a long time for for pvp players and its hard to call people not spending hoarders, put everyone on the same system if you wanna make it fair. No collecting AP? ok then no saving keys gold etc

Autolycus · February 2016

I think it's a valid point. It would be unfair if there actually was an AP cap, but there's not. Wrobel said himself in the last ESO Live that it was simply an example of an option to prevent hoarding AP, not something they intend to do. If ever they decided to do this, I would back you up as it being unfair. However, as of right now it's irrelevant (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong).