Stamina Sorcerer VS Stamina Nightblade, and why Stam Sorc is sad

Alucardo · February 2016

Yep, this is YASSP (Yet another stam sorc post), but I just wanted to show the the team at ZOS what stam sorcs have to deal with in terms of balance. I've chosen Nightblade to put them up against because people say they need high damaging abilities to make up for their lack of defence (similar to stam sorc).

Note: This is not a nerf NB thread. I am just using them as a comparison as mentioned above. I think Nightblades are fine.

I've whipped up a quick sheet of some useful abilities and passives both classes have to get a good look. I didn't even bother with an Ultimate comparison because we all know stam sorcs ultimates are terrible compared to Nightblades anyway.

To ensure this post isn't too biased, I'm going to say I prefer the Sorc passives for my stamina builds. However, the main thing behind this thread is to point out passives don't necessarily keep you alive. You can tell from the comparison Nightblades obviously have more damage related specs, but also pretty good "oh crap" utilities. Stamina sorcerers just have to sit there and take whatever's coming. You could say streak is an option, but with gap closers and the streak nerf hurting us more than magicka, well, you know the story.
Defence wise, we suck. One puncture and that lightning around us is useless. We have absolutely nothing else to fall back on. That, and a severe lack of decent utilities makes you a sitting duck. We can't CC multiple targets that induces a snare and reduces their damage, we can't cloak to become invisible and heal, we can't use a shadow image to teleport away. This is why Stamina Sorcerer is terrible. We have the same defence as a Nightblade, yet lack the burst damage and escape utilities.
This is why what's left of the stam sorc population are rerolling stam DKs or Nightblades.

lolo_01b16_ESO · February 2016

I agree that it's easier to get a good stamblade than a good stam sorc, but I think your comparison is a bit off balance. You should try to make it as unbiased as possible, and don't worry, sorcs will still look weaker even when you include everything.

For the nb you included defensive skills that cost magicka and can be hardcountered easiely. (btw. cloak won't purge dots anymore). So why not include bolt escape?
You mentioned consuming darkness as ultimate which I feel is funny. That is actually the only nb ultimate where I would say it is not stronger than what stam sorcs have in their class trees.
What about crit surge? It's an ok heal (better than killers blade) and can be a good reliable heal if combined with crit rush.

Every melee attack stuns when performed from stealth, and sa doesn't stun when you use it while you're visable.
For both, killers blade and power extraction much stronger weapon skills exist, so nbs rarely use them.
What about the stamina buff you get from your bound armour? Not worth mentioning?

Alucardo · February 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I agree that it's easier to get a good stamblade than a good stam sorc, but I think your comparison is a bit off balance. You should try to make it as unbiased as possible, and don't worry, sorcs will still look weaker even when you include everything.

For the nb you included defensive skills that cost magicka and can be hardcountered easiely. (btw. cloak won't purge dots anymore). So why not include bolt escape?
You mentioned consuming darkness as ultimate which I feel is funny. That is actually the only nb ultimate where I would say it is not stronger than what stam sorcs have in their class trees.
What about crit surge? It's an ok heal (better than killers blade) and can be a good reliable heal if combined with crit rush.

Every melee attack stuns when performed from stealth, and sa doesn't stun when you use it while you're visable.
For both, killers blade and power extraction much stronger weapon skills exist, so nbs rarely use them.
What about the stamina buff you get from your bound armour? Not worth mentioning?

You're right, I could have made it a little more unbiased, but it was a quick summary as I didn't want to spend too long on it. I was thinking about including bolt escape, but with its high cost, 50% increase for each additional use and the fact it sets up your target for a free gap close I didn't even bother.
Crit surge is a very unreliable heal. With everyone running impen and shields, it's impossible to get decent heals from it. I literally crit rush mobs around IC while fighting players just to heal myself.
I didn't mention the stamina in bound armour because it was under the defence category. I was just listing the things that will help keep you alive, like armour buffs.

Anhedonie · February 2016

I don't know why you decided to include Thundering Presense in this list, since literally nobody uses that morph.

Alucardo · February 2016

Anhedonie wrote: »

I don't know why you decided to include Thundering Presense in this list, since literally nobody uses that morph.

True. One of the "buffs" we were given and nobody even wants it xD

lolo_01b16_ESO · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I agree that it's easier to get a good stamblade than a good stam sorc, but I think your comparison is a bit off balance. You should try to make it as unbiased as possible, and don't worry, sorcs will still look weaker even when you include everything.

For the nb you included defensive skills that cost magicka and can be hardcountered easiely. (btw. cloak won't purge dots anymore). So why not include bolt escape?
You mentioned consuming darkness as ultimate which I feel is funny. That is actually the only nb ultimate where I would say it is not stronger than what stam sorcs have in their class trees.
What about crit surge? It's an ok heal (better than killers blade) and can be a good reliable heal if combined with crit rush.

Every melee attack stuns when performed from stealth, and sa doesn't stun when you use it while you're visable.
For both, killers blade and power extraction much stronger weapon skills exist, so nbs rarely use them.
What about the stamina buff you get from your bound armour? Not worth mentioning?

You're right, I could have made it a little more unbiased, but it was a quick summary as I didn't want to spend too long on it. I was thinking about including bolt escape, but with its high cost, 50% increase for each additional use and the fact it sets up your target for a free gap close I didn't even bother.
Crit surge is a very unreliable heal. With everyone running impen and shields, it's impossible to get decent heals from it. I literally crit rush mobs around IC while fighting players just to heal myself.
I didn't mention the stamina in bound armour because it was under the defence category. I was just listing the things that will help keep you alive, like armour buffs.

Oh, yes, I forgot that you can't crit on shields.

Shelgon · February 2016

It's almost as if NB is an extremely well made and well rounded class, more so than any other class and class spec in the game, not just stam sorc, haha.

oh wait..

they are

Alucardo · February 2016

Shelgon wrote: »

It's almost as if NB is an extremely well made and well rounded class, more so than any other class and class spec in the game, not just stam sorc, haha.
oh wait..

Yup, I got that feeling too. This is why I wouldn't want them nerfed - they are built exactly how every class should be. It just so happens stamina sorc is far, far behind everyone else. Yes, even behind Templars.

mistermutiny89 · February 2016

Mag sorcs will use nothing but crystal frag no matter how much they buff the other morph, so let's use the other morph for stam sorcs... Make it only have the range of an uppercut with the Stam cost of an uppercut but perhaps lower damage and an instant cast.

Reduce stamina cost of thundering presence and have it remove snares.

Then give us a Stam morph for curse that causes poison damage with major defile.

Boom... Stam sorc fixed.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Mag sorcs will use nothing but crystal frag no matter how much they buff the other morph, so let's use the other morph for stam sorcs... Make it only have the range of an uppercut with the Stam cost of an uppercut but perhaps lower damage and an instant cast.

Reduce stamina cost of thundering presence and have it remove snares.

Then give us a Stam morph for curse that causes poison damage with major defile.

Boom... Stam sorc fixed.

rofl would make it so *** OP. even more then WB rofl

Jaronking · February 2016

Person I think a better comparison would be a Stam Do vs Stam Sorc.

Shelgon · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

stamina sorc is far, far behind everyone else.

No it's not, I'm not gonna sit here and say stam sorc isn't the lowest of the low on the tier list of class specs, but you are not FAR behind everyone else.

"..but also pretty good "oh crap" utilities. Stamina sorcerers just have to sit there and take whatever's coming."

Stamplars don't have any "oh crap" utilities. We have Purify, but it's not the end all be all.

"Defence wise, we suck. One puncture and that lightning around us is useless."

If one were to use restoring focus in this patch, the same case would apply, however, most don't so one puncture and we have like 8k armor.

"We can't CC multiple targets that induces a snare and reduces their damage, we can't cloak to become invisible and heal, we can't use a shadow image to teleport away."

Stamplars also can't do anything of these things.

Templars as a whole are the only class without a root/immobilize

Templars next patch will be the only class without a native speed buff skill

mistermutiny89 · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Mag sorcs will use nothing but crystal frag no matter how much they buff the other morph, so let's use the other morph for stam sorcs... Make it only have the range of an uppercut with the Stam cost of an uppercut but perhaps lower damage and an instant cast.

Reduce stamina cost of thundering presence and have it remove snares.

Then give us a Stam morph for curse that causes poison damage with major defile.

Boom... Stam sorc fixed.

rofl would make it so *** OP. even more then WB rofl

I freaking hate having to put wb on my bar for my dk and stam sorc.... Surprise attack and jabs are spammable class dps abilities.. Every class and build should have them. I wouldn't care if it didn't even cc... Just give us spammable stam dps skills... Ploise! Haha

Stam sorcs should be just as bursty as mag sorcs.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Mag sorcs will use nothing but crystal frag no matter how much they buff the other morph, so let's use the other morph for stam sorcs... Make it only have the range of an uppercut with the Stam cost of an uppercut but perhaps lower damage and an instant cast.

Reduce stamina cost of thundering presence and have it remove snares.

Then give us a Stam morph for curse that causes poison damage with major defile.

Boom... Stam sorc fixed.

rofl would make it so *** OP. even more then WB rofl

I freaking hate having to put wb on my bar for my dk and stam sorc.... Surprise attack and jabs are spammable class dps abilities.. Every class and build should have them. I wouldn't care if it didn't even cc... Just give us spammable stam dps skills... Ploise! Haha

Stam sorcs should be just as bursty as mag sorcs.

yes but an istant CC as strong as frags has even when it's melee is OP to be sure. you would see things like frags WB WB executener. Just maybe with some light attacks weaved in between frags and first WB

mistermutiny89 · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Mag sorcs will use nothing but crystal frag no matter how much they buff the other morph, so let's use the other morph for stam sorcs... Make it only have the range of an uppercut with the Stam cost of an uppercut but perhaps lower damage and an instant cast.

Reduce stamina cost of thundering presence and have it remove snares.

Then give us a Stam morph for curse that causes poison damage with major defile.

Boom... Stam sorc fixed.

rofl would make it so *** OP. even more then WB rofl

I freaking hate having to put wb on my bar for my dk and stam sorc.... Surprise attack and jabs are spammable class dps abilities.. Every class and build should have them. I wouldn't care if it didn't even cc... Just give us spammable stam dps skills... Ploise! Haha

Stam sorcs should be just as bursty as mag sorcs.

yes but an istant CC as strong as frags has even when it's melee is OP to be sure. you would see things like frags WB WB executener. Just maybe with some light attacks weaved in between frags and first WB

Just take the cc out and have it do the damage equal to surprise attack... Only surprise attack lowers enemy armour and buffs yours whilst stam frag would heal you for 5% health (nerfed from 8% for pve balance) and give you minor savagery (changing final dark magic passive to buff both weapon and spell crit when hitting an enemy with a dark magic spell).

By doing this we still won't be able to reduce enemy armour without night mothers or sword and board but everything else would be very solid.

Skinzz · February 2016

U cant really compare the two because stam sorcs are more of a niche build. Sorcerers should stick with magicka

Yolokin_Swagonborn · February 2016

Sorcerer Stamina Builds vs the stamina builds of other classes: Why Sorcerer doesn't match up.

Here are the four criteria that make a stamina build strong in ESO:
A stamina build, by definition uses stamina based skills (primarily) for DPS and magicka skills (primarily) for utility. Every class that has a strong stamina build currently has at least one CLASS SKILL (or passive) in each of the following categories:

A direct damage, instant cast, CLASS BASED ability that uses stamina.
A magika based class utility ability that directly supports stamina by returning stamina, increasing stamina regen, weapon damage/crit, or mobility.
A class based passive that directly supports stamina by returning stamina, increasing stamina regen, weapon damage/crit, or mobility.
An class ability that reduces the enemies physical resistance

By analyzing the same four criteria for Every class, it is easy to see why each class is strong or weak in a stamina build and what areas need to be improved so that all four classes have competitive endgame class based stamina options.

Templar Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage: Biting Jabs/ Stam Javelin
2. Stam Support Utility: Repentance
3. Passives that support stamina: Balanced warrior
4. Armor Debuff: Power of the light

Dragonknight Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage:Burning Breath, Unstable Flame, Dragon Leap (Ultimate)
2. Stam Support Utility:Green Dragon Blood, Flames of Oblivion, igneous weapons
3. Passives that support stamina:Battle Roar, Mountain's Blessing, Helping Hands
4. Armor Debuff:Burning Breath, Corrosive Armor (Ultimate)

Nightblade Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Killer's Blade, Ambush, power extraction, and Surprise attack
2. Stam Support Utility: Relentless Focus, siphoning attacks, power extractions (functions as 1 and 2), double take
3. Passives that support stamina:Master Assassin, pressure points, hemorrhage, refreshing shadows(30% stam regen with no need to slot anything)
4. Armor Debuff:Mark Target, Surprise attack

Looking at this list it is immediately clear what class has the strongest stamina build and why. Now lets apply these four criteria to sorcerer:

Sorcerer
1. Direct Damage Class Based Stamina Skill: Thundering Presence (maybe). Not exactly what I would call direct damage and it also fails the definition above because it is more useful as a utility than DPS (so it should be magicka based)
2. Stam Support Utility:Dark Deal , Bound Armaments (still takes two slots for 8% stam increase),
3. Passives that support stamina: Unholy Knowledge, Expert Mage - Increase spell/weapon damage 2% per sorc ability.
4. Armor Debuff: NOTHING

Thundering Presence, Bound Armaments, and Dark Deal, all have serious, almost deal breaker issues and most stam sorcs avoid them if they can. Just because there are stamina options for a class doesn't mean they are good stamina options. For instance, stam sorcs can get increased stamina with a daedric summoning skill slotted but the only one that makes sense to use takes two slots and doesn't really provide much value.

Mojomonkeyman · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Yep, this is YASSP (Yet another stam sorc post), but I just wanted to show the the team at ZOS what stam sorcs have to deal with in terms of balance. I've chosen Nightblade to put them up against because people say they need high damaging abilities to make up for their lack of defence (similar to stam sorc).

Note: This is not a nerf NB thread. I am just using them as a comparison as mentioned above. I think Nightblades are fine.

I've whipped up a quick sheet of some useful abilities and passives both classes have to get a good look. I didn't even bother with an Ultimate comparison because we all know stam sorcs ultimates are terrible compared to Nightblades anyway.

To ensure this post isn't too biased, I'm going to say I prefer the Sorc passives for my stamina builds. However, the main thing behind this thread is to point out passives don't necessarily keep you alive. You can tell from the comparison Nightblades obviously have more damage related specs, but also pretty good "oh crap" utilities. Stamina sorcerers just have to sit there and take whatever's coming. You could say streak is an option, but with gap closers and the streak nerf hurting us more than magicka, well, you know the story.
Defence wise, we suck. One puncture and that lightning around us is useless. We have absolutely nothing else to fall back on. That, and a severe lack of decent utilities makes you a sitting duck. We can't CC multiple targets that induces a snare and reduces their damage, we can't cloak to become invisible and heal, we can't use a shadow image to teleport away. This is why Stamina Sorcerer is terrible. We have the same defence as a Nightblade, yet lack the burst damage and escape utilities.
This is why what's left of the stam sorc population are rerolling stam DKs or Nightblades.

What`s your ingame character`s name? I see you post a lot about stam sorcs, but I think I´ve never seen you play on eu. We have some unique strentghs imo, that are really strong.

I.e.: I cant cc multiple targets with a single button press (maybe streak?), but I can stack caltrops, mines and multiple buffs on me due to overload 3rd bar. Lots of ground control which allows in combo with streak for really nasty positioning moves that no other class is able to pull off. I could go on about def rune, which is really, really strong as a cc and theres a lot more.

Its not as one-sided is what I`m trying to say.

CP5 · February 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Yep, this is YASSP (Yet another stam sorc post), but I just wanted to show the the team at ZOS what stam sorcs have to deal with in terms of balance. I've chosen Nightblade to put them up against because people say they need high damaging abilities to make up for their lack of defence (similar to stam sorc).

Note: This is not a nerf NB thread. I am just using them as a comparison as mentioned above. I think Nightblades are fine.

I've whipped up a quick sheet of some useful abilities and passives both classes have to get a good look. I didn't even bother with an Ultimate comparison because we all know stam sorcs ultimates are terrible compared to Nightblades anyway.

To ensure this post isn't too biased, I'm going to say I prefer the Sorc passives for my stamina builds. However, the main thing behind this thread is to point out passives don't necessarily keep you alive. You can tell from the comparison Nightblades obviously have more damage related specs, but also pretty good "oh crap" utilities. Stamina sorcerers just have to sit there and take whatever's coming. You could say streak is an option, but with gap closers and the streak nerf hurting us more than magicka, well, you know the story.
Defence wise, we suck. One puncture and that lightning around us is useless. We have absolutely nothing else to fall back on. That, and a severe lack of decent utilities makes you a sitting duck. We can't CC multiple targets that induces a snare and reduces their damage, we can't cloak to become invisible and heal, we can't use a shadow image to teleport away. This is why Stamina Sorcerer is terrible. We have the same defence as a Nightblade, yet lack the burst damage and escape utilities.
This is why what's left of the stam sorc population are rerolling stam DKs or Nightblades.

What`s your ingame character`s name? I see you post a lot about stam sorcs, but I think I´ve never seen you play on eu. We have some unique strentghs imo, that are really strong.

I.e.: I cant cc multiple targets with a single button press (maybe streak?), but I can stack caltrops, mines and multiple buffs on me due to overload 3rd bar. Lots of ground control which allows in combo with streak for really nasty positioning moves that no other class is able to pull off. I could go on about def rune, which is really, really strong as a cc and theres a lot more.

Its not as one-sided is what I`m trying to say.

You use mines on a stam sorc? Their damage is laughable without the stacked magicka and spell power while also being insanely pricey to place. Overload's 3rd bar can easily be seen as compensation for the class with the most toggles in game, gap closers make the 1-2 uses of streak not quite as 'nasty' as say, a nb teleporting back to a well placed shade. Also for ground control what else, encase? Same as mines, way to expensive. And defensive rune, while nice, is broken by any damage and mostly just wards of gankers. We've had a year of silence and Wrobel brushed us off during the last show, we're an after thought and aside from templars, stam sorcs are not in as peachy of a place in my opinion as you suggest.

Anhedonie · February 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Dragonknight Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage:Burning Breath, Unstable Flame, Dragon Leap (Ultimate)

Enjoy your stamsorc as it is if you think that UF and BB can be considered as spammable direct damage abilities.

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

This will not get stam sorcs buffed... this will get stam nbs nerfed.

Alucardo · February 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

This will not get stam sorcs buffed... this will get stam nbs nerfed.

Hopefully not. I even bolded the part saying this isn't a nerf nb post!

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

This will not get stam sorcs buffed... this will get stam nbs nerfed.

Hopefully not. I even bolded the part saying this isn't a nerf nb post!

Its obvious ZoS doesnt think much of stam builds in general. They either dislike the idea or are clueless how to make it work. NBs arent in ZoS's good graces either.

Duiwel · February 2016

The fact that the class is called SORCERER...

It boggles my mind why you would want anything other than Magicka.

The only balancing factor I think sorcs need both stam and magicka are some way of generating resource pool while wearing heavy armour. I think this would make up a lot of squishyness. (since many people have to use Aegis or wards) permanently.

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

Duiwel wrote: »

The fact that the class is called SORCERER...

It boggles my mind why you would want anything other than Magicka.

Because spellblades, battle mages, arcane archers and other hybrid archetypes are a thing in fantasy.

Anhedonie · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Dragonknight Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage:Burning Breath, Unstable Flame, Dragon Leap (Ultimate)

Enjoy your stamsorc as it is if you think that UF and BB can be considered as spammable direct damage abilities.

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Anhedonie wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Anhedonie wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Probably. I'm not a patient nor tolerant. And pretty much straightforward.

I want all classes to be balanced and good in both pve and pvp.
So when people start to compare classes they should remember that classes may have different mechanics, otherwise why have classes?
Also when people compare skills they should know how they work. Having weak base direct damage component on a strong dot isn't the same as having strong direct damage ability (you wouldn't compare Wrecking Blow to Unstable Flame, would you?). I too think that stamsorcs deserve a buff, but if you want to compare stuff, then do it correctly.

Only NBs have instacast hardhitting stamina based ability actually. Surprise Attack.
Beta-class' Biting Jabs is a channelled dot that lasts several seconds.
DK has only stamina damage over time effects with small initial damage on hit.
Sorc has Thundering Presence which is a damage over time effect. At least it can't be purged, but NOBODY uses. So it's safe to say that they have nothing.

In short only NBs have that nice ability and that's perfectly fine, but other classes need adjustments. Since NB is pretty balanced as of now.
But that's a little bit off topic.

[edited to remove quote]

Alucardo · February 2016

Anhedonie wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Dragonknight Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage:Burning Breath, Unstable Flame, Dragon Leap (Ultimate)

Enjoy your stamsorc as it is if you think that UF and BB can be considered as spammable direct damage abilities.

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Anhedonie wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Anhedonie wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Probably. I'm not a patient nor tolerant. And pretty much straightforward.

I want all classes to be balanced and good in both pve and pvp.
So when people start to compare classes they should remember that classes may have different mechanics, otherwise why have classes?
Also when people compare skills they should know how they work. Having weak base direct damage component on a strong dot isn't the same as having strong direct damage ability. I too think that stamsorcs deserve a buff, but if you want to compare stuff, then do it correctly.

Only NBs have instacast hardhitting stamina based ability actually. Surprise Attack.
Beta-class' Biting Jabs is a channelled dot that lasts several seconds.
DK has only stamina damage over time effects with small initial damage on hit.
Sorc has Thundering Presence which is a damage over time effect. At least it can't be purged, but NOBODY uses. So it's safe to say that they have nothing.

In short only NBs have that nice ability and that's perfectly fine, but other classes need adjustments. Since NB is pretty balanced as of now.
But that's a little bit off topic.

I totally agree every class should have different mechanics, but they should all have a way to protect themselves or even have access to basic debuffs. I guess all I'd really like to see is a small buff to their defensive side and major fracture. That's it - just some more utility.

[edited to remove quote]

Mojomonkeyman · February 2016

CP5 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Yep, this is YASSP (Yet another stam sorc post), but I just wanted to show the the team at ZOS what stam sorcs have to deal with in terms of balance. I've chosen Nightblade to put them up against because people say they need high damaging abilities to make up for their lack of defence (similar to stam sorc).

Note: This is not a nerf NB thread. I am just using them as a comparison as mentioned above. I think Nightblades are fine.

I've whipped up a quick sheet of some useful abilities and passives both classes have to get a good look. I didn't even bother with an Ultimate comparison because we all know stam sorcs ultimates are terrible compared to Nightblades anyway.

To ensure this post isn't too biased, I'm going to say I prefer the Sorc passives for my stamina builds. However, the main thing behind this thread is to point out passives don't necessarily keep you alive. You can tell from the comparison Nightblades obviously have more damage related specs, but also pretty good "oh crap" utilities. Stamina sorcerers just have to sit there and take whatever's coming. You could say streak is an option, but with gap closers and the streak nerf hurting us more than magicka, well, you know the story.
Defence wise, we suck. One puncture and that lightning around us is useless. We have absolutely nothing else to fall back on. That, and a severe lack of decent utilities makes you a sitting duck. We can't CC multiple targets that induces a snare and reduces their damage, we can't cloak to become invisible and heal, we can't use a shadow image to teleport away. This is why Stamina Sorcerer is terrible. We have the same defence as a Nightblade, yet lack the burst damage and escape utilities.
This is why what's left of the stam sorc population are rerolling stam DKs or Nightblades.

What`s your ingame character`s name? I see you post a lot about stam sorcs, but I think I´ve never seen you play on eu. We have some unique strentghs imo, that are really strong.

I.e.: I cant cc multiple targets with a single button press (maybe streak?), but I can stack caltrops, mines and multiple buffs on me due to overload 3rd bar. Lots of ground control which allows in combo with streak for really nasty positioning moves that no other class is able to pull off. I could go on about def rune, which is really, really strong as a cc and theres a lot more.

Its not as one-sided is what I`m trying to say.

You use mines on a stam sorc? Their damage is laughable without the stacked magicka and spell power while also being insanely pricey to place. Overload's 3rd bar can easily be seen as compensation for the class with the most toggles in game, gap closers make the 1-2 uses of streak not quite as 'nasty' as say, a nb teleporting back to a well placed shade. Also for ground control what else, encase? Same as mines, way to expensive. And defensive rune, while nice, is broken by any damage and mostly just wards of gankers. We've had a year of silence and Wrobel brushed us off during the last show, we're an after thought and aside from templars, stam sorcs are not in as peachy of a place in my opinion as you suggest.

Well, it seems you made up your mind not even trying to comprehend my strain of thought. Where did I say I want to achieve dps with mines? Theres two key expressions indicating that the cc and ground control component is what makes it attractive for me to use, despite the ovious loss of dmg compared to magicka setups. And mines, opposed to encase, are stationary, so you dont have to recast it as often. Def rune "just wards gankers", well the "just" is enough for me.

Please explain how "not as one-sided" translates to "peachy of a place"....

Setups like that work for me, it`s ok if you have already decided for yourself that it wont for you and want to stay in that box, but please accept that others don`t feel like you do. I do reasonably well with stam sorc to feel im not as gimped as many of you make it sound.

mtwiggz · February 2016

In all honesty the comparison you did here is great.

But...

Comparing a Stam Sorc to a Stam NB is just as poor as comparing a Stam DK to a Stam NB. Only real difference is a Stam DK has a physical ultimate. Any class rolled as Stam other than a NB has to rely solely on weapon skills. This is a huge flaw in the game, not only for Sorcs but for all classes other than NB.

Sure DK has one stamina ability, a pretty awful DoT.
Sure Templar has one stamina ability, a decent "AoE" which is only useful when fighting 1v1 or 1v3 at max.

Now a Sorc has zero spammable stamina damage abilities. One could argue that they need one, but in the same case as a Stam DK or Stam Temp. Wrecking Blow is better than all stamina class abilities, other than the NB's Surprise Attack.

I believe that ZoS marketed ESO as "Play how you want" and that is true. Sorcs have a long way to go in the stamina field, as do DKs and Temps. With that said, you can still play any class as stamina, it just might not be as good as others. Similar to how a Magicka NB is not as good as a Magicka Sorc.

Didaco · February 2016

OP, you didn't even mention CritRush+Surge, that is really the only one thing stamsorcs have... How can we take this thread seriously?!
Jk, I just think that is an awesome combo, what really makes stamsorcs particular.

Plus, I'd say that Streak is the stamsorc answer to NBs Mass Hysteria... Ok, works in a whole different way but imho it's slighly better since it has no target cap, its CC covers more space, awesome mobility utility and depletes the secondary resource of a stamclass.

Anyway, give me a stamina C-Frags morph that covers my arm in a crystal to be insta-cast-shattered with a punch in the opponents face, and I'll delete every character I have to just reroll a stamsorc: tap button to have the instant punch effect; hold button for 1 sec to charge a punch with knockback effect + disorient (similar to Magnum Shot & Co), 7 meters range with a small gap-close effect, just to add that Falcon Punch flavor.

Subbed 4 life.

Strider_Roshin · February 2016

I'm actually leveling up a stam sorc now. I actually think they're very powerful, but I'll wait until I get him to end game before I make my judgement.