I was asked by a stam sorc today why he kept dying in PVP

ral · February 2016

Stam sorc is a fun class. thats all I'm gonna say.

Acrolas · February 2016

Five crown rules of PVP stamina sorcerer:
1. Stamina recovery as high as possible.
2. At the very very least, 13,000 base magicka.
3. Roll Dodge and Convert
4. Knock when you block.
5. Detect pot, Detect pot, Detect pot.

Alucardo · February 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

Five crown rules of PVP stamina sorcerer:
1. Stamina recovery as high as possible.
2. At the very very least, 13,000 base magicka.
3. Roll Dodge and Convert
4. Knock when you block.
5. Detect pot, Detect pot, Detect pot.

These are legit

Curtdogg47 · February 2016

It may take your friend doing some online research on his build. I am in no way an expert on this game and I am very much a noob when it comes to PVP. Right now I don't stand much of a chance against anyone unless they are like me and are a noob and well below my level. In which case the battle probably looks like two people learning to dance for the first time!!! I am more a PVE player and while I have finally built what I feel for is a great build for PVE for me. It didn't happen or come to gather with doing research and mixing things from similar builds I have seen with how I like to play. As I am learning now PVP is really different in how you want your build to be.
I am a stamina NB, I love my bow and some of the skills I am really attached to. What I have been doing is research on my build for PVP and seeing what people have out there. And trying to work a build that fits me and gives me a better chance in PVP combat. Its a lot of work but I enjoy it, I probably wont ever be dominant in PVP but if I can win a few battles playing my way I'll be happy. Easy and quickest thing maybe for your friend maybe to just find a proven build and use it. There are proven PVP builds out there for just about any build I think. Or ask good questions here. I know that if I post a good question asking for tips I get really great advice from people here. There is always the chance to get trolled but that is life online for sure. Like said I am no expert here but I do understand what's its like to be dying a lot in PVP!!! And I enjoy the challenge of finding a build that mixes how I like to play with proven PVP skills and setups. hopefully something here might be helpful. You and your friend probably know me than me. But since I have been rewarded by others here with helpful comments on my own posts I like to try and help others. Or at least be in on discussions . Someone may correct me on something I have said and hey Ill get better because of it.

Chori · February 2016

should tell that sorc to get out of BWB first, have some vet pvp challenges and then decide if he wants to reroll or not

Jar_Ek · February 2016

Honestly, tell him to get used to it as a stamina sorcerer.
However I found my survivability was directly proportional to my tankiness so it's a balance between health (actually semi useful for stamina sorcerers as we have to survive more than the initial hit), armour and impen, stamina for attacks and dodge rolls and regens. Also running s+s can help.
But tbh one nb can wipe a stamina sorcerer (esp if it's a gank), 2 is always gonna be rough and everyone will always focus him first if you duo. Ask if he minds being a decoy build... high health, reactive armour, all defensive skills, and a clannfear (for the heal).

But do I thing that stamina sorcerers are missing something... No. They are missing a lot of things.

No stamina class damage skills, no class stamina cc skills, extremely limited class skill options.
Passives that pay lip service to stamina builds (about 50% are simply ineffective due to the pet scaling issues, limited storm calling damage options, and no effective dark magic abilities).
Ultimates that don't scale well with weapon damage or physical CPs.
CPs that are split and will remain split (esp ultimates)

And that's just off the top of my head.
Also the much vaunted mobility is almost a myth, night blade mobility is almost as good.

Solid_Metal · February 2016

Merkabeh wrote: »

You can't tell him the truth! That would crush his poor little heart...I know this because...I too...have a Stam Sorc...who...who...uses exclusively bows...

They said we could play our own way...They said we could...play...our...own waaaaaaaay!

eh, you CAN play with your own way, really
but of course everything comes with a price...

bertenburnyb16_ESO · February 2016

What to yell him? Simple
"Bro, stam sorc.... Go mag"

AshTal · February 2016

Tell him to re-roll - a Sorc must be a magic character and a high elf.

When they said you can play your own way what they meant to say you can die your own way but if you want to play then play the race and classes they tell you.

KingYogi415 · February 2016

Deltia has a cool stam sorc.

Tell your friend to get 500 CP and he is golden

Lord_Hev · February 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

You reiterate your point while ignoring that elder scrolls sorcs are SUPPOSED to wear heavy armor and carry melee weapons.

That still doesn't mean sorc is stamina.

"Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor."

- TES Oblivion Sorcerer class description

If we analyze this statement. It's saying that sorcerers were mages of great physique that wore heavy armor and were naturally tanky and able to withstand punishment.

"Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos."

-TES Morrowind class description

According to TES lore, Sorcerers are mystics that can practice conjuration(we have a ****y watered down version of this : / stupid ****ing toggles) and necromancy. They excel in mysticism and the dark-arts. They wore heavy armor and mystical melee weapons to supplement their sorcery(like sword and board for defensive posture or Dual Wield for burst.)

In traditional fantasy, sorcs are magic users. In TES lore, sorcs are magic users.

Sorceror is a magic class.

Erock25 · February 2016

People really aren't tired of the 'sorc is a magicka class' argument yet? We have four classes. They need to be viable and have class flavor for both magicka and stam specs. Would all of these 'sorc is magicka' people be bringing this up if sorc was named tempest instead? It's just a name and a name has nothing to do with class balance.

Lord_Hev · February 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

People really aren't tired of the 'sorc is a magicka class' argument yet? We have four classes. They need to be viable and have class flavor for both magicka and stam specs. Would all of these 'sorc is magicka' people be bringing this up if sorc was named tempest instead? It's just a name and a name has nothing to do with class balance.

Class balance died with the introduction of 1.6. When they took away the uniqueness of each class and turned the meta into burst and mobility. This began with people complaining about NB stam(meanwhile stam was always a thing) Granted, adjustments were needed to balance things out to make the option of stam more accessible to the player-base. ZOS instead homogenized the classes and made stam a blanket high burst/mobility play-style for every class. Then they pigeon-holed all the class roles and turned the entire meta into burst and mobility.

On any class, you can make a mobile, hard hitting bursty stam build that all look the same as far as im concerned. I'd like to preserve hat uniqueness sorcs have after having their one key-thing(magical mobility) completely gutted from them.

Abob · February 2016

Stam sorc is still stronger than stamina templar.

Xeven · February 2016

Abob wrote: »

Stam sorc is still stronger than stamina templar.

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

Drakilian · February 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Tell him that he was stupid for not associating "Sorcerer" with "Magicka."

It's like a guy PO'ed that his tank doesn't work when he puts all his points into magicka and wears only light armor.

Exactly my thoughts on Stam Sorc.
I in no way mean to belittle anyone who chooses to play the way they want, but I quite honestly don't understand the logic behind Stam Sorc. A Sorc IS magic. Magic is where any Sorc gets its power. Stamina doesn't make sense in my mind whatsoever.

I mean, sincerely, enlighten me on how this makes any sense. I just don't get it. Stamina, is for physical power. Mage (which is exactly what a Sorc is) derives from Magic. How on earth can a Magic powered being use their powers using stamina?

Every class was 100 percent magicka driven at games release. If sorc is magicka only, what is the stam only class? Why do you associate sorc with just magicka? You know an elder scrolls sorc traditionally uses melee weapons and heavy armor, right? Or are you just bringing in word associations from other lore to suit your limited imagination.

Stam only class is (was, with TG) Dragonknight ~

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

@Vyle_Byte if you really want to understand then how about you read what I actually wrote instead of just being offended for nothing. You reiterate your point while ignoring that elder scrolls sorcs are SUPPOSED to wear heavy armor and carry melee weapons. Your argument of sorc= magicka is false. Regardless, there are four classes in this game and all use magicka primarily and all uses magicka only for their class skills at the game's release. Just because you associate the word sorcerer with magic doesn't mean one of four classes is limited to one resource. Dragon Knights are Knights and therefore can't breathe fire! You see how that statement makes no sense at all?

Indeed all you did was ask questions, you wrote nothing of an answer and then tried to belittle me by saying i have a limited imagination.

In fact, I am not here to argue but get insight from those who choose to play the class in this way. And again, you misunderstand that I don't get the heavy armor/melee weapons "argument". Obviously the melee would be stamina, I was specifically speaking of the spells themselves.

If your answer is "because we don't want to be limited to just magic because no one else is" then just say that. I would call that a better answer than your first post to me.

Bound Armaments -toggle that boosts heavy attack damage and adds bonus to +max Stamina.
Boundless Lightning/Thundering Presence
Disintegrate
Crit Surge
Streak
Overload
Also have some of the best Stamina Regeneration for a class.
Also have the best cost reduction for Stamina of any class.
Best Health Regeneration passive of any class.
Passive bonus that grants +2% Wpn/Spell Damage per Sorcerer skill on the bar.
15% ultimate cost reduction - Yay even Cheaper Flawless Dawnbreaker.

Please don't tell me there's no place for a Stamina Sorcerer in this game. There are some functional problems with the class, that have caused ZoS to make battle spirit changes that have directly nerfed other classes without solving the problem with Sorcerers. I believe if they can resolve the problems with Hardened Ward and balance the class to a more normal Shield they could come a long way to helping this class out.

Every Weapon-based build out there has Magicka dump stats used for utility/mitigation. If they don't do this they're wasting their innate regeneration and pools (and often passives as well). This is true of all classes with stamina builds.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

So what is wrong with Stam Sorcs?

I don't get it.

1) We lack a heal or ward that works well in PvP, so we have survivability issues. Critical Surge, for example, works great against mobs, but often fails in PvP because of Impenetrable trait and the Resistant CP passive.

2) We lack a stamina based class damage spell that we can put on any weapon bar. I would prefer an instant damage spell like Surprise Attack, while other players want a stamina version of Crystal Frags.

TL;DR: it's harder for Stam Sorcs to stay alive and kill stuff, because we lack the class skills to support stamina play.

This is why I've been lobbying for them to get rid of battle spirit on shields, make shields able to be critted, and set all shields to scale off of health. Many of the magicka Sorcs went mental when I suggested this, because they didn't want their beloved shield to be nerfed (when all I want is parity). I realize if ZoS doesn't fix other things then the loss of the Shield is a problem, but lets face it other classes (and even sorcerer builds) face the same problems and are getting no love on it. They shouldn't have had to make Battle Spirit to deal with one class, and specifically one class ability, when it in turn heavily nerfed two other classes. That was a really bad design choice. People with high magicka and magicka regeneration still have an advantage in their ability to spam the skill.

On the matter of Stamina damage Skill I think the two suggestions I've seen are to make a bound weapon attack instead of crystal shards or a punching/slamming mages fury morph. The one problem I foresee here is that this skill might be really good, while at the same time add +2% weapon damage for slotting. Storcs won't have a choice but to slot it. This might create a balance problem as well. Something to consider. I think first thing first they need to deal with the Shield/Surge problem stated above.

Abob · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Abob wrote: »

Stam sorc is still stronger than stamina templar.

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

I guess templar's passives are better for stamina then?

SeptimusDova · February 2016

Was it the cousin of @FENGRUSH the one who is called Feng Shui ?

Taleof2Cities · February 2016

Not gonna lie ... I still have one open character slot that's intended for a stam sorc some day.

However, why is this the last character type on my list yet to be rolled??

Tryxus · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Two Nightblades vs him and me on my DK. I wiped them after he fell, while he laid on the ground watching, tears rolling down his stam sorc face.

What do I tell him, @Wrobel, what do I tell him?

(l2p comments, while imminent, will be ignored)

Best things to tell him:

- Give him as much advice as you can regarding his build
- Tell him to look up more info and builds online
- Most important: tell him not to give up and to keep trying. It may be hard in the beginning, but with plenty of practice he'll get there one day

smacx250 · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Compared to other play styles, how often do you see a stam sorc? My guess is not very much.

In my death recaps, I found a total of 2 stam sorcs vs 61 mag sorcs (called a stam sorc if more stamina sourced damage was done than magicka sourced damage). Stam sorcs look to be a very small (or ineffective) portion of the population.

Trenia · February 2016

Bring the Stam Sorc hate. We can take it.

smacx250 · February 2016

Trenia wrote: »

Bring the Stam Sorc hate. We can take it.

If that was a response to my post, I apologize for how it may have come across - it was a clinical comment on the data and not a judgement call. Since I'm only looking at death recaps, I can't tell what the total population is, only that which killed this character (a mag sorc).

Mac10murda · February 2016

It takes a while for someone to learn there class and there own playstyle , alot of people watch youtubers grab same gear as them and expect same results

corrosivechains · February 2016

@Lord_Hev you contradicted your own argument there bud, may wanna reread what you put in there...you know, the part...ehh I'll just quote it for you and bold/italicize your contradiction

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You reiterate your point while ignoring that elder scrolls sorcs are SUPPOSED to wear heavy armor and carry melee weapons.

That still doesn't mean sorc is stamina.

"Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor."

- TES Oblivion Sorcerer class description

Lord_Hev · February 2016

.

corrosivechains wrote: »

@Lord_Hev you contradicted your own argument there bud, may wanna reread what you put in there...you know, the part...ehh I'll just quote it for you and bold/italicize your contradiction

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You reiterate your point while ignoring that elder scrolls sorcs are SUPPOSED to wear heavy armor and carry melee weapons.

That still doesn't mean sorc is stamina.

"Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor."

- TES Oblivion Sorcerer class description

Reading comprehension. 101

It's saying they have the physique to wear Heavy armor plate. And that their armor and weapons are all magic empowered, to augment their mysticism.

Dyride · February 2016

A lot of the original stam sorcs were hybrids, blue ninja bow sorcs, Sabre Ali and here is a video of Skaffa dueling with crit charge.

Then with softcap removal you had to go either stam or magicka.

I used to be able to stack Rally and Crit Surge :'(

I wanted a lightning berzerker sustained by the damage I dealt that could Streak into a fight, hit hard, and get out once the heat was on.

Give Thundering Presence 2.5 secs of snare immunity like Shuffle and maybe it will be worth a slot.

Fix the Blood Magic passive in Dark Magic so it actually returns 8% health on hit like it says, even if the skill doesn't deal damage.

corrosivechains · February 2016

Lord_Hev wrote: »

.

corrosivechains wrote: »

@Lord_Hev you contradicted your own argument there bud, may wanna reread what you put in there...you know, the part...ehh I'll just quote it for you and bold/italicize your contradiction

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You reiterate your point while ignoring that elder scrolls sorcs are SUPPOSED to wear heavy armor and carry melee weapons.

That still doesn't mean sorc is stamina.

"Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor."

- TES Oblivion Sorcerer class description

Reading comprehension. 101

It's saying they have the physique to wear Heavy armor plate. And that their armor and weapons are all magic empowered, to augment their mysticism.

Ok, stamina doesn't mean stamina when it applies to proving your point. Got it.