Have class abilities scale off of either STA or MAG

Khaos_Bane · February 2016

I am sure this has been brought up before, but the class abilities and how they work with your primary resource is a complete mess right now. Some morphs for STA and most morphs for MAG, Wrobel stating he doesn't really want to add more STA morphs. Having Morphs for STA and MAG make no sense and are ugly.

So the idea was/is, if you choose to use STA weapons you loose a lot of your class identity as well? This simply makes no sense....MAG weapons work perfectly with all class skills but not STA.

Can you please simply let class skills scale with MAG or STA? It seems it would be fairly simple to do so. That way, you can keep class identity no matter what weapons you choose to use. Simply let all class skill damage scale off of either STA/MAG + CP + Racials

Robbmrp · February 2016

This could be accomplished with simple Magicka/Stamina flags setup on the character attribute screen. Check off which you want it to be based off of, save it like an attribute and all of the coding for the skills points to that attribute type.

ShadowDisciple · February 2016

dude...you have no clue.....

so i can play Sorcere Sword n Board stamina...with spamming shields and Cfrags...

or Stamina DK with lava whip...etc.. op

just pls... PvE players shoulnd not even get to say in class balancing...
i can do every PvE content except Maelstrom Arena using only 4 abilities..

in PvE you can literally play whatever you want...as long as you have 1 spamabble dps on your bar and you can avoid Red Things on ground..your done

Im a PvP player but i did every single PvE content there was...it is sooo easy it literaly makes me cry out of boredom...

and pve is fine....once..or twice...i just dont see the reason of doing dungs over and over and over again..repetitive and boring

im soooo tired of seeing PvE players suggesting nonsense like this...

TL:DR - what you are suggesting is completely broken and overpowering mechanic

Khaos_Bane · February 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

dude...you have no clue.....

so i can play Sorcere Sword n Board stamina...with spamming shields and Cfrags...

or Stamina DK with lava whip...etc.. op

just pls... PvE players shoulnd not even get to say in class balancing...

i can do every PvE content except Maelstrom Arena using only 4 abilities..

in PvE you can literally play whatever you want...as long as you have 1 spamabble dps on your bar and you can avoid Red Things on ground..your done

Of course there would have to be changes to skills, derp. Thought this would be obvious but I guess not.

Yes, ALL weapon types could use class skills and have their main resource scale

Robbmrp · February 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

dude...you have no clue.....

so i can play Sorcere Sword n Board stamina...with spamming shields and Cfrags...

or Stamina DK with lava whip...etc.. op

just pls... PvE players shoulnd not even get to say in class balancing...
i can do every PvE content except Maelstrom Arena using only 4 abilities..

in PvE you can literally play whatever you want...as long as you have 1 spamabble dps on your bar and you can avoid Red Things on ground..your done

Im a PvP player but i did every single PvE content there was...it is sooo easy it literaly makes me cry out of boredom...

and pve is fine....once..or twice...i just dont see the reason of doing dungs over and over and over again..repetitive and boring

im soooo tired of seeing PvE players suggesting nonsense like this...

TL:DR - what you are suggesting is completely broken and overpowering mechanic

How would that be an overpowering mechanic?? If you chose Stamina then all your skills are stamina based, even your class skills. The same for Magicka. If ZOS would have setup something like this from start there wouldn't be tons of people complaining they need stamina morphs. It would have already been in the game! If someone spec's Stamina their magicka spells now are crap and vice versa.

ShadowDisciple · February 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

dude...you have no clue.....

so i can play Sorcere Sword n Board stamina...with spamming shields and Cfrags...

or Stamina DK with lava whip...etc.. op

just pls... PvE players shoulnd not even get to say in class balancing...

i can do every PvE content except Maelstrom Arena using only 4 abilities..

in PvE you can literally play whatever you want...as long as you have 1 spamabble dps on your bar and you can avoid Red Things on ground..your done

Of course there would have to be changes to skills, derp. Thought this would be obvious but I guess not.

Yes, ALL weapon types could use class skills and have their main resource scale

omg...am i really going to explain this???

THEN WHATS THE POINT IF ALL SKILLS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED...

it should be a complete revamp off skills...

i can think of at least 6-7 OP combinations...and if they change that skills then what...they suck again? or what?

i dont get it

"pls pls ZoS make my skills scale off my biggest resource but NERF them all so it end up the same again"

And why?? Cuz you want to throw Flame Lashes all day but still be stamina....

ENTITLEMENT at its finest

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

I'd rather see them remove the damage component from Magicka/Stamina, and make them purely just pools you draw on. It would make it a hell of a lot easier for the devs to balance the game.

ShadowDisciple · February 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I'd rather see them remove the damage component from Magicka/Stamina, and make them purely just pools you draw on. It would make it a hell of a lot easier for the devs to balance the game.

Remember Soft Caps???

you are a seasoned player im sure you do

Didgerion · February 2016

Yeah then there would be no point in stamina and magica....we would need just one resource.

But I agree: the magica/stamina skills were miss designed. Do you remember when all class's skills used to be magica based? lol

The magica/stamina morph fix was a lazy fix to it that doesn't even work for some classes.

ZOS should review all their skills starting from the core......add new class skills if needed.

Classes have to have magica skills with 2 magica morphs each and stamina skills with 2 stamina morphs.

Wrobel mentioned a huge skill redesign is planned I hope you will do it properly this time.

Emma_Overload · February 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

dude...you have no clue.....

so i can play Sorcere Sword n Board stamina...with spamming shields and Cfrags...

or Stamina DK with lava whip...etc.. op

just pls... PvE players shoulnd not even get to say in class balancing...
i can do every PvE content except Maelstrom Arena using only 4 abilities..

in PvE you can literally play whatever you want...as long as you have 1 spamabble dps on your bar and you can avoid Red Things on ground..your done

Im a PvP player but i did every single PvE content there was...it is sooo easy it literaly makes me cry out of boredom...

and pve is fine....once..or twice...i just dont see the reason of doing dungs over and over and over again..repetitive and boring

im soooo tired of seeing PvE players suggesting nonsense like this...

TL:DR - what you are suggesting is completely broken and overpowering mechanic

Agreed! Imagine how OP Nightblades would be if there was stamina morph of Surprise Attack............

................... oh wait.

ShadowDisciple · February 2016

Didgerion wrote: »

But I agree: the magica/stamina skills were miss designed. Do you remember when all class's skills used to be magica based? lol

Yea do you remember???

and do you remember that during these times Dual wield and 2H weapon line was kinda bad unless you use almost entire skill trees..

and that everyone was magicka even tough Stamina Scaling abilities where in abundance?? remember when ppl called out ZoS on that for bad designing??

God... we have the best system right now...and instead of minor tweaks and buffing/nerfing a few skills you guys want a complete overhaul..

which would just end up in a horrible distaster

ShadowDisciple · February 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

dude...you have no clue.....

so i can play Sorcere Sword n Board stamina...with spamming shields and Cfrags...

or Stamina DK with lava whip...etc.. op

just pls... PvE players shoulnd not even get to say in class balancing...
i can do every PvE content except Maelstrom Arena using only 4 abilities..

in PvE you can literally play whatever you want...as long as you have 1 spamabble dps on your bar and you can avoid Red Things on ground..your done

Im a PvP player but i did every single PvE content there was...it is sooo easy it literaly makes me cry out of boredom...

and pve is fine....once..or twice...i just dont see the reason of doing dungs over and over and over again..repetitive and boring

im soooo tired of seeing PvE players suggesting nonsense like this...

TL:DR - what you are suggesting is completely broken and overpowering mechanic

Agreed! Imagine how OP Nightblades would be if there was stamina morph of Surprise Attack............

................... oh wait.

Slow Clap....1 stamina spamable ability thats Good...i can always use WB if you preffer...

Let me introduce you to Lotus Fan + Concealed weapon + Soul Harvest + Proxy Det combo...Dual wield NB Magicka...

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I'd rather see them remove the damage component from Magicka/Stamina, and make them purely just pools you draw on. It would make it a hell of a lot easier for the devs to balance the game.

Remember Soft Caps???

you are a seasoned player im sure you do

I was not happy when they removed them.

LorDrek · February 2016

No!

ShadowDisciple · February 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I'd rather see them remove the damage component from Magicka/Stamina, and make them purely just pools you draw on. It would make it a hell of a lot easier for the devs to balance the game.

Remember Soft Caps???

you are a seasoned player im sure you do

I was not happy when they removed them.

noone was...and now..this guy is suggesting 2x more impactfull overhaull...

negatively impactfull that is

tennant94 · February 2016

There will never be a magicka morph for wrecking blow or focus aim so no

Elsonso · February 2016

Magicka and Stamina are getting pretty blurred together in this game.

Magical abilities need to be powered by Magicka, no matter what type of damage they do. Fire balls, ice walls, summoned lightning, flying rocks, glowing spears, acid, and poisons that appear out of nowhere and attack something at the command of the caster... these are the traits found with magical abilities. If you are calling upon Divines, Daedra, Aedra, the Tribunal, or the will of Akatosh to heal, that is a magical ability. If you lay on hands and raise the dead or bring daedra into the world, that is a magical ability.

Physical abilities need to be powered by Stamina, and should not be confused with magical abilities. There should be a clear distinction between the two.

If the game cannot keep them separate, then they should merge Magicka ans Stamina into one resource pool and just draw from that for everything the character does. In this way, we are not forced to split skill points along some arbitrary line that changes as the character develops.

However, if they want to keep Stamina and Magicka, then they need to have absolute differences. Skill lines should be stamina or magicka and should not change through a morph. Magical abilities should consume magicka and damage values should scale off of spell damage. Physical abilities should consume stamina and damage values should scale off of weapon damage.

If I have one combat skill wish for this game it is that they reverse the mid-skill morph switch to make a magical ability a stamina ability. I think that this was a cheap and easy way to enable "stamina builds" in a game that was not designed for "stamina builds" at all. This game is designed around builds that are heavy in magicka. If they want to enable builds that are heavy in stamina, they need to do some serious work on the foundation. Just adding stamina morphs, or blurring the line so that it does not matter what you pick, is not the answer.

Dagoth_Rac · February 2016

They spent what, 7 years, designing this game from the ground up with magicka as primary resource and stamina as secondary. All class skills were magicka. All ultimates scaled off magicka. Snipe used to use spell crit, for crying out loud! Resto Staff used to be highest DPS weapon! It was pretty clear they either:

a). Expected everyone to spec into magicka as their primary resource.
or
b). Did not understand the implications of what they were doing and how difficult it made it on traditional warrior and melee styles of play.

Regardless, undoing 7 years of bad design is not easy. They have been making strides. Magicka is still far more versatile in far more situations. But I think a radical change like making everything cost and scale off whatever you like will cause more problems than it fixes. Many skills, both magicka and stamina based, were designed with that resource in mind. Flipping the resource could make the skill overpowered or, alternately, worthless.

As painful as it is, I don't think there is any silver bullet to quickly fix the stamina/magicka discrepancy. I think we just have to wait it out and hope the developers have learned from their mistakes.

Khaos_Bane · February 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

dude...you have no clue.....

so i can play Sorcere Sword n Board stamina...with spamming shields and Cfrags...

or Stamina DK with lava whip...etc.. op

just pls... PvE players shoulnd not even get to say in class balancing...

i can do every PvE content except Maelstrom Arena using only 4 abilities..

in PvE you can literally play whatever you want...as long as you have 1 spamabble dps on your bar and you can avoid Red Things on ground..your done

Of course there would have to be changes to skills, derp. Thought this would be obvious but I guess not.

Yes, ALL weapon types could use class skills and have their main resource scale

omg...am i really going to explain this???

THEN WHATS THE POINT IF ALL SKILLS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED...

it should be a complete revamp off skills...

i can think of at least 6-7 OP combinations...and if they change that skills then what...they suck again? or what?

i dont get it

"pls pls ZoS make my skills scale off my biggest resource but NERF them all so it end up the same again"

And why?? Cuz you want to throw Flame Lashes all day but still be stamina....

ENTITLEMENT at its finest

Again, you are thinking of the skills the way they are right now. I'm not saying keep the skills the same, it's clear you are missing the point and raging a bit as well.

I am saying a design change needs to take place so, no matter what weapon type you choose(STA\MAG), that you are still able to use class skills effectively without mucking things up with separate morphs.

Khaos_Bane · February 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I'd rather see them remove the damage component from Magicka/Stamina, and make them purely just pools you draw on. It would make it a hell of a lot easier for the devs to balance the game.

Agreed. This simple design change would be much closer to supporting "play how you want" as ZoS preaches, but the design with separate pools has really made the game a bit clunky.

The way it is right now is a complete mess IMO.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · February 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

I am sure this has been brought up before, but the class abilities and how they work with your primary resource is a complete mess right now. Some morphs for STA and most morphs for MAG, Wrobel stating he doesn't really want to add more STA morphs. Having Morphs for STA and MAG make no sense and are ugly.

So the idea was/is, if you choose to use STA weapons you loose a lot of your class identity as well? This simply makes no sense....MAG weapons work perfectly with all class skills but not STA.

Can you please simply let class skills scale with MAG or STA? It seems it would be fairly simple to do so. That way, you can keep class identity no matter what weapons you choose to use. Simply let all class skill damage scale off of either STA/MAG + CP + Racials

if you did this there would be no reason to play magica. why use magica at all if i can stack all stamina and stamina abilities weaponpower/crit having a better pool for rolling and dodging blocking? better defence better roll dodge with medium.

second thought sure do it id love to have all that on my magica toons, wouldnt be op at all...

TheShadowScout · February 2016

Yet another of those silly ideas...

No. It is FINE as it is right now.

Stamina builds are not supposed to throw the magica-heavy class skills around like they were sorcerors, stamina builds are supposed to play -fighters- and thus be more geared towards picking weapon skills rather then the oh so magical class skills. They just -had- to add some stamina stuff to preserve the balance, because once upon a time, cyrodil was "Staff&Skirt or GTFO" and everyone not into wearing skirts but having a preference for handling large swords hated it (and since there are no scotsmen in tamriel, we didn't have a voice for the "both" department!)

Let me say it again, simple-wise for the Jägermonster among us:
"Magica schmott guy shtuff, stamina stronk guy shtuff."

And that's why most class skills don't even have a stamina morph. And its perfectly fibe to play either way! Asking for something like that would require so much rebalancing, it'd feed the forum complainer mudcrabs for years...

Lil_Willie · February 2016

Ultimates can use stam morphs too. There are soo many choices when it comes to magicka based ultis. It sure would be nice to have stam based.....

PS except for DKs. DKs are fine just the way they are.

TheShadowScout · February 2016

Lil_Willie wrote: »

Ultimates can use stam morphs too. There are soo many choices when it comes to magicka based ultis. It sure would be nice to have stam based...

Uhm... ultis -always- scale off the higher of stamina/magica, and -always- use "ultimate" as resource pool...

Egonieser · February 2016

That wouldn't make much sense.
They would have to rework the entire skill/class system then. Cast Crystal Frags or Liquid lightning using Stamina? In which reality would that make any sense? (and any other similar skills)
I agree on the fact that more stamina morphs to CERTAIN skills would be good, but not the entire class lines.
There is a distinct difference between magic and physical force, you can't summon fireballs using your good physique and excellent 6-pack - that would be total nonsense even in a fictional world such as Tamriel.

Unsent.Soul · February 2016

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

I am sure this has been brought up before, but the class abilities and how they work with your primary resource is a complete mess right now. Some morphs for STA and most morphs for MAG, Wrobel stating he doesn't really want to add more STA morphs. Having Morphs for STA and MAG make no sense and are ugly.

So the idea was/is, if you choose to use STA weapons you loose a lot of your class identity as well? This simply makes no sense....MAG weapons work perfectly with all class skills but not STA.

Can you please simply let class skills scale with MAG or STA? It seems it would be fairly simple to do so. That way, you can keep class identity no matter what weapons you choose to use. Simply let all class skill damage scale off of either STA/MAG + CP + Racials

if you did this there would be no reason to play magica. why use magica at all if i can stack all stamina and stamina abilities weaponpower/crit having a better pool for rolling and dodging blocking? better defence better roll dodge with medium.

second thought sure do it id love to have all that on my magica toons, wouldnt be op at all...

Nail being hit on the head..

Unsent.Soul · February 2016

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

I am sure this has been brought up before, but the class abilities and how they work with your primary resource is a complete mess right now. Some morphs for STA and most morphs for MAG, Wrobel stating he doesn't really want to add more STA morphs. Having Morphs for STA and MAG make no sense and are ugly.

So the idea was/is, if you choose to use STA weapons you loose a lot of your class identity as well? This simply makes no sense....MAG weapons work perfectly with all class skills but not STA.

Can you please simply let class skills scale with MAG or STA? It seems it would be fairly simple to do so. That way, you can keep class identity no matter what weapons you choose to use. Simply let all class skill damage scale off of either STA/MAG + CP + Racials

if you did this there would be no reason to play magica. why use magica at all if i can stack all stamina and stamina abilities weaponpower/crit having a better pool for rolling and dodging blocking? better defence better roll dodge with medium.

second thought sure do it id love to have all that on my magica toons, wouldnt be op at all...

Nail being hit on the head... well said.

SneaK · February 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

I am sure this has been brought up before, but the class abilities and how they work with your primary resource is a complete mess right now. Some morphs for STA and most morphs for MAG, Wrobel stating he doesn't really want to add more STA morphs. Having Morphs for STA and MAG make no sense and are ugly.

So the idea was/is, if you choose to use STA weapons you loose a lot of your class identity as well? This simply makes no sense....MAG weapons work perfectly with all class skills but not STA.

Can you please simply let class skills scale with MAG or STA? It seems it would be fairly simple to do so. That way, you can keep class identity no matter what weapons you choose to use. Simply let all class skill damage scale off of either STA/MAG + CP + Racials

Why would anyone roll Magicka then?

(EDIT, just read the post above, exactly the same feelings towards this idea)