Igneous Weapons PTS

Toc de Malsvi · February 2016

My understanding of this buff is magicka cost for Major Brutality for 30 seconds and that's it. So my question is why would anyone use this over Rally? I mean I can see how someone like myself who would want a pure say bow build would like the option but it seems incredibly weak compared to Rally or even its counter part Molten Weapons. Sure you get Major Brutality through a class skill, but huge magicka cost and no other bonus outside of Earthen Heart passives? It really seems underwhelming and poorly designed. I think adding something like 20% more damage from weapon attacks light and heavy, might make it more worthwhile.

kkravaritieb17_ESO · February 2016

Doesnt it give spell damage buff as well for your group members? At least that's what the patch notes said.

Kammakazi · February 2016

It's for players who don't want to use 2H or Brutality potions.

Targuris · February 2016

The addition of 20% heavy attack damage to igneous weapons morph would be fantastic and make it a worthwhile morph

Targuris · February 2016

I think this opens up more avenues for stam DKs as well instead of being tied down to a 2h. I really want to play DW and bow on my Stam DK. I think the lack of an execute on this build besides poison injection something needs to be added to this morph. The heavy attack damage bonus benefits stam builds way more than magicka builds. I wont spend 3 or so seconds to cast a fully charged heavy attack with a staff while weaving its a DPS loss, but with DW or a 2H it is much nicer.

Targuris · February 2016

The flavor of this skill is completely lost without that heavy attack damage and as I have been saying in other threads noone will be looking for this buff from the DK. Major brut and sorcery is already in peoples builds as is.

Toc de Malsvi · February 2016

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Doesnt it give spell damage buff as well for your group members? At least that's what the patch notes said.

After looking back yes it does, still not very good for solo players.

Kammakazi wrote: »

It's for players who don't want to use 2H or Brutality potions.

Yeah I get that, I'm completely on that train I don't want to use pots for Major Brut or have to use 2H, but this spell is really weak compared to other Major Brut spells, and does not synergize with stam builds at all which are the builds you would want to use it on.

2H - Rally - Stamina cost - Major Brutality + small Heal over time and big heal if refreshed towards the end of the buff.

DW - Hidden Blade - Stamina cost - Ranged Slow + Physical damage + Major Brutality buff

NB - Drain Power(+morphs) - Stamina or Magicka cost - AOE - (Magic damage + AOE heal + Major Brutality and Major Sorcery) or (Weapon damage + Major Brutality)

DK - Igneous Weapons - Magicka cost - Major Brutality and Major Sorcery

It seems really really lackluster in comparison.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

So am I the only one who wants atleast Molten armaments changed back to 40% heavy attack buffs and then 150% heavy attack execute ?

Toc de Malsvi · February 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So am I the only one who wants atleast Molten armaments changed back to 40% heavy attack buffs and then 150% heavy attack execute ?

Well I would like that as well, but I don't think it will happen and am more concerned with being given a poor morph option to get Major Brutality from class skills. ZOS does not care that a Magicka Sorc/NB can one shot players that have poor builds by timing his burst because they do it in the open. They don't like archers being able to accomplish the same feat against poor builds and are doing whatever is necessary to stop it, because they do it from stealth.

Removing stam regen while crouching will effectively nerf Bosmer and Khajit in pvp, as they will have a whole passive that is virtually useless unless they stand in one spot and wait for kills. They were already weaker and had to rely on getting jumps from stealth.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So am I the only one who wants atleast Molten armaments changed back to 40% heavy attack buffs and then 150% heavy attack execute ?

Well I would like that as well, but I don't think it will happen and am more concerned with being given a poor morph option to get Major Brutality from class skills. ZOS does not care that a Magicka Sorc/NB can one shot players that have poor builds by timing his burst because they do it in the open. They don't like archers being able to accomplish the same feat against poor builds and are doing whatever is necessary to stop it, because they do it from stealth.

Removing stam regen while crouching will effectively nerf Bosmer and Khajit in pvp, as they will have a whole passive that is virtually useless unless they stand in one spot and wait for kills. They were already weaker and had to rely on getting jumps from stealth.

OK? But that has nothing do do with my thing about molten armaments it's basically now DKs are the only class with out a execute and the entire skills has been changed to really only benefit magicka type builds now. Yes it's nice that it is now a group buff but they can atleast change molten armaments back to a execute. That way a player can either choose a ingenious weapons for a group DPS buff or molten armaments for a execute.

Strider_Roshin · February 2016

One morph gives +20% weapon damage. The other gives +20% spell damage and +40% damage done by heavy attacks. Long story short: only magicka users are allowed to be strong.

Gilvoth · February 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

One morph gives +20% weapon damage. The other gives +20% spell damage and +40% damage done by heavy attacks. Long story short: only magicka users are allowed to be strong.

now people are finaly starting to see the reality,
i been here since 2013 beta, and i tell you, im begining to hate eso.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

One morph gives +20% weapon damage. The other gives +20% spell damage and +40% damage done by heavy attacks. Long story short: only magicka users are allowed to be strong.

And doesn't help when stamina users get something magicka users start screaming nerf.

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

This will be very useful

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Doesnt it give spell damage buff as well for your group members? At least that's what the patch notes said.

This is the most important change imo, the entire group doesnt have to slot a spell/weapon dmg buff if one DK keeps this up.
That will be a huge benefit from a group dps/healing point of view.

Combine that with the changes to Mage Light and players will have 1-2 free slots on their bar.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This will be very useful

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Doesnt it give spell damage buff as well for your group members? At least that's what the patch notes said.

This is the most important change imo, the entire group doesnt have to slot a spell/weapon dmg buff if one DK keeps this up.
That will be a huge benefit from a group dps/healing point of view.

Combine that with the changes to Mage Light and players will have 1-2 free slots on their bar.

That also depend if the group works together.

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This will be very useful

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Doesnt it give spell damage buff as well for your group members? At least that's what the patch notes said.

This is the most important change imo, the entire group doesnt have to slot a spell/weapon dmg buff if one DK keeps this up.
That will be a huge benefit from a group dps/healing point of view.

Combine that with the changes to Mage Light and players will have 1-2 free slots on their bar.

That also depend if the group works together.

Well, thats kinda the point of a group, is it not?

Destruent · February 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This will be very useful

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Doesnt it give spell damage buff as well for your group members? At least that's what the patch notes said.

This is the most important change imo, the entire group doesnt have to slot a spell/weapon dmg buff if one DK keeps this up.
That will be a huge benefit from a group dps/healing point of view.

Combine that with the changes to Mage Light and players will have 1-2 free slots on their bar.

That also depend if the group works together.

Well, thats kinda the point of a group, is it not?

For some people "group" means: i type "lfg" in zone chat and get invited-->group XD

btt: Great change in my opinion. One DK (tank/heal) can buff the whole group so noone else has to slot a skill for this buff or drink potions for this. This will allow easier ressource management in raids (drink a potion when you need ressource, not when you need the buff). For those Stam DKs whining about not getting the 40% buff to heavy attacks: Just use the morph which grants you heavy attack damage (now for 40 Seconds instead of 8?), you'll get major brutality from someone else.

lolo_01b16_ESO · February 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This will be very useful

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Doesnt it give spell damage buff as well for your group members? At least that's what the patch notes said.

This is the most important change imo, the entire group doesnt have to slot a spell/weapon dmg buff if one DK keeps this up.
That will be a huge benefit from a group dps/healing point of view.

Combine that with the changes to Mage Light and players will have 1-2 free slots on their bar.

I didn't test it properly, but from my observations during our runs in the new trial, it seems to not buff everyone of our group, even if we are stacked up completely.

Targuris · February 2016

The igneous morph should give some heavy damage to start pulling Stam dks away from being stuck with a 2H. I think a dot based Stan DK with DW and bow would be really cool. For the sake of build diversity they should put 20% more heavy attack damage or something. This game lacks interesting builds and pigeon holes people way to much. This leads to very boring and stale gameplay. I don't think 20% is much to ask for.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

Targuris wrote: »

The igneous morph should give some heavy damage to start pulling Stam dks away from being stuck with a 2H. I think a dot based Stan DK with DW and bow would be really cool. For the sake of build diversity they should put 20% more heavy attack damage or something. This game lacks interesting builds and pigeon holes people way to much. This leads to very boring and stale gameplay. I don't think 20% is much to ask for.

Well igneous adds weapon damage now alot of players use 2H for rally cause not only weapon damage boost whihc what ingenious weapons does now but rally also heals. That healing is what makes rally a go to thing for stamina users so jsut adding more damage to ingenious weapons won't exactly make it better.

But something that could help is this. Maybe little OP.

Molten weapons: Grants major sorcerer and major brute increasing weapon and spell damage by 20% for you and nearby allies.

Igneous weapons: Grants major sorcerer and major brute increasing weapon and spell damage by 20% for you and nearby allies and each heavy attack heals the attacker for 30% of the damage inflicted.

Molten armaments: Increases caster heavy attack damage by 40% and up to 150% vs low health enemies and has a 20% to heal caster for 80% of the execute damage when killing a enemy while under the effect.

Thoughts ideas?

Targuris · February 2016

I think the heal would be too close to crit surge. That's why I think in he spirit of the original to add heavy attack damage. 20% is not to much and would greatly benefit s&b and dw DKs. The heal is not necessary because vigor is good enough and the extra damage is a bit better overall for Stan builds burst. I think it will help Stam DK pve dps without being tied down to a 2H or weapon damage pots. I don't think DK need an execute, but the heavy attack damage would be really helpful for weaving/ animation cancelling especially for stam dks.

Toc de Malsvi · February 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

The igneous morph should give some heavy damage to start pulling Stam dks away from being stuck with a 2H. I think a dot based Stan DK with DW and bow would be really cool. For the sake of build diversity they should put 20% more heavy attack damage or something. This game lacks interesting builds and pigeon holes people way to much. This leads to very boring and stale gameplay. I don't think 20% is much to ask for.

Well igneous adds weapon damage now alot of players use 2H for rally cause not only weapon damage boost whihc what ingenious weapons does now but rally also heals. That healing is what makes rally a go to thing for stamina users so jsut adding more damage to ingenious weapons won't exactly make it better.

But something that could help is this. Maybe little OP.

Molten weapons: Grants major sorcerer and major brute increasing weapon and spell damage by 20% for you and nearby allies.

Igneous weapons: Grants major sorcerer and major brute increasing weapon and spell damage by 20% for you and nearby allies and each heavy attack heals the attacker for 30% of the damage inflicted.

Molten armaments: Increases caster heavy attack damage by 40% and up to 150% vs low health enemies and has a 20% to heal caster for 80% of the execute damage when killing a enemy while under the effect.

Thoughts ideas?

Now this is something I could get behind, I do think though that simply buffing it beyond Major Brutality is needed even if there is no heal component.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

The igneous morph should give some heavy damage to start pulling Stam dks away from being stuck with a 2H. I think a dot based Stan DK with DW and bow would be really cool. For the sake of build diversity they should put 20% more heavy attack damage or something. This game lacks interesting builds and pigeon holes people way to much. This leads to very boring and stale gameplay. I don't think 20% is much to ask for.

Well igneous adds weapon damage now alot of players use 2H for rally cause not only weapon damage boost whihc what ingenious weapons does now but rally also heals. That healing is what makes rally a go to thing for stamina users so jsut adding more damage to ingenious weapons won't exactly make it better.

But something that could help is this. Maybe little OP.

Molten weapons: Grants major sorcerer and major brute increasing weapon and spell damage by 20% for you and nearby allies.

Igneous weapons: Grants major sorcerer and major brute increasing weapon and spell damage by 20% for you and nearby allies and each heavy attack heals the attacker for 30% of the damage inflicted.

Molten armaments: Increases caster heavy attack damage by 40% and up to 150% vs low health enemies and has a 20% to heal caster for 80% of the execute damage when killing a enemy while under the effect.

Thoughts ideas?

Now this is something I could get behind, I do think though that simply buffing it beyond Major Brutality is needed even if there is no heal component.

Maybe I figured the healing component would help out both parties a bit. Like low on health and resources do a few heavy attacks and back in business.

Arcanasx · February 2016

Targuris wrote: »

The igneous morph should give some heavy damage to start pulling Stam dks away from being stuck with a 2H. I think a dot based Stan DK with DW and bow would be really cool. For the sake of build diversity they should put 20% more heavy attack damage or something. This game lacks interesting builds and pigeon holes people way to much. This leads to very boring and stale gameplay. I don't think 20% is much to ask for.

When playing a stam dk and i had to choose between a major brutality major sorcery 20% bonus to heavy attacks or a molten armaments major sorcery 40% bonus to heavy attacks, I would choose molten armaments simply because I get more heavy attack damage and I can get a major brutality from something else. It simply isnt fair to stam builds however. Thats why ive been posting changing it so molten weapons retains its 40% bonus to heavy attacks, give igneus weapons major sorcery in addition to the bonus, and give molten armaments major brutality with the bonus. This is the most fair solution to both magicka and stamina dks.

Targuris · February 2016

Start as many threads as possible before the pts is over so they hopefully will change it

leepalmer95 · February 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

The igneous morph should give some heavy damage to start pulling Stam dks away from being stuck with a 2H. I think a dot based Stan DK with DW and bow would be really cool. For the sake of build diversity they should put 20% more heavy attack damage or something. This game lacks interesting builds and pigeon holes people way to much. This leads to very boring and stale gameplay. I don't think 20% is much to ask for.

Well igneous adds weapon damage now alot of players use 2H for rally cause not only weapon damage boost whihc what ingenious weapons does now but rally also heals. That healing is what makes rally a go to thing for stamina users so jsut adding more damage to ingenious weapons won't exactly make it better.

But something that could help is this. Maybe little OP.

Molten weapons: Grants major sorcerer and major brute increasing weapon and spell damage by 20% for you and nearby allies.

Igneous weapons: Grants major sorcerer and major brute increasing weapon and spell damage by 20% for you and nearby allies and each heavy attack heals the attacker for 30% of the damage inflicted.

Molten armaments: Increases caster heavy attack damage by 40% and up to 150% vs low health enemies and has a 20% to heal caster for 80% of the execute damage when killing a enemy while under the effect.

Thoughts ideas?

Well i kind of want to major brutaility / sorcery which added effect thats kind of the idea, so it's more useful than rally/entropy.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

The igneous morph should give some heavy damage to start pulling Stam dks away from being stuck with a 2H. I think a dot based Stan DK with DW and bow would be really cool. For the sake of build diversity they should put 20% more heavy attack damage or something. This game lacks interesting builds and pigeon holes people way to much. This leads to very boring and stale gameplay. I don't think 20% is much to ask for.

Well igneous adds weapon damage now alot of players use 2H for rally cause not only weapon damage boost whihc what ingenious weapons does now but rally also heals. That healing is what makes rally a go to thing for stamina users so jsut adding more damage to ingenious weapons won't exactly make it better.

But something that could help is this. Maybe little OP.

Molten weapons: Grants major sorcerer and major brute increasing weapon and spell damage by 20% for you and nearby allies.

Igneous weapons: Grants major sorcerer and major brute increasing weapon and spell damage by 20% for you and nearby allies and each heavy attack heals the attacker for 30% of the damage inflicted.

Molten armaments: Increases caster heavy attack damage by 40% and up to 150% vs low health enemies and has a 20% to heal caster for 80% of the execute damage when killing a enemy while under the effect.

Thoughts ideas?

Well i kind of want to major brutaility / sorcery which added effect thats kind of the idea, so it's more useful than rally/entropy.

Well that's why I added the heals to igneous weapons that way for stamina base players could possible stop using rally for healing and weapon damage buffs. Like say some one has some points into the new melee weapon expert and has a increases to heavy attacks by say 7% that means those heavy attacks are more powerful which means a better heal cause you could say land a 8K heavy attack well 8,000*30%=2,400. That 2400 could mean life or death and if you can keep that steady 8K heavy attack damage well it's a win win you get back both health and stamina in 2 seconds to rally which yes heals every 2 seconds but the good healing doesn't happen near the end of it's effect and at that point it's any ones call on what could happen.

MarrazzMist · February 2016

I mostly like DK changes - many magika abilities are useful without big mag pool - but lack of stamina synenergies makes me sad too. Like many others, I don't want to get stuck with 2hander. I've been enjoying hugely pure dw dk while levelling, and I really hope there'll be some variety in stamina dk builds in future.

Ingenious weapons is useful as it is, and fits well for DKs. Is it unbalanced? I haven't heard anyone complain.

Is it unused? I can't see it getting any more popular with this change. Maybe some dedicated group players will use it.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

MarrazzMist wrote: »

I mostly like DK changes - many magika abilities are useful without big mag pool - but lack of stamina synenergies makes me sad too. Like many others, I don't want to get stuck with 2hander. I've been enjoying hugely pure dw dk while levelling, and I really hope there'll be some variety in stamina dk builds in future.

Ingenious weapons is useful as it is, and fits well for DKs. Is it unbalanced? I haven't heard anyone complain.

Is it unused? I can't see it getting any more popular with this change. Maybe some dedicated group players will use it.

Well as I been saying I am just a little upset that ZOS removed the execution all together instead of what I been saying of giving us one option or the other.

slumber_sandb16_ESO · February 2016

Igneous Weapons - Increases weapon and spell damage by 20% to everyone in your group. You burn 200-300 enemy stamina + magicka and invigorate yourself restoring 400-600 stamina with light and heavy attacks.(scales with max stamina?)

Similar to siphoning strikes but lesser stamina restore and doesnt restore magicka, to give DK some better resource management, as a tank I'd love this.