TheTwistedRune wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

@LiquidSchwartz. No. I can play the game however I like. What right do you have to dictate how somebody else should play?

I don't play this game because it's an MMO. I play it because I like the way it plays.

Then do t complain that there isn't something to cater to your play style in a game that is for grouping with real people not a npc that would cause more stress on the server and make it lag more

This game, and most modern MMO's for that matter, are not just designed just for grouping though. They cater for many different play styles. There are solo instances in ESO. Also, I was not complaining. I was simply saying it is a feature that I would like to see in game.

I don't see how a hireling NPC would cause any more lag than a summoned pet or an NPC that helps you during certain quests in game. It works fine in other MMO's. Why not this one?

The point of your argument seems to rest mainly on a baffling hatred of anybody who wants to play solo. Well that and telling them go play something else.

i don't have any hatred for people who play solo. I quest alone and don't group for anything but dungeons and pvp. But, I don't want garbage additions that make people group even less and ruin the game even more. It already struggles with antisocial people not grouping on top of many people enjoying solo play.
they already give you followers for missions that require some help in solo

So you don't want NPC companions because you say (and I disagree) that it makes people group less. You would rather force them to play with others, no matter how difficult or inconvenient, rather than letting them make their own choice whether or not to use a NPC hireling. You don't want to use them, and you don't want others using them.

The problem here is that you think everybody should play the way you want them to. Everything you say is from a perspective that allows no room for consideration of other people's wishes or opinions, instead of accepting that some people would enjoy such additions, but stating that you yourself wouldn't use them.

I'm not denying anybody anything out of the game. Its called a live and let live attitude. Maybe its a concept you should become familiar with.

lmao ok dude enjoy playing alone without a companion

I see no problem with NPC companions provided they have limitations/costs.
Like, not only do they cost a lot of money from their initial attainment but they 'take' (reduce loot chance) a good portion of looted items from NPCs you kill and take a percentage of the coin found on enemies.

This, combined with presumed AI limitations, would make NPC companions viable but not encouraged over grouping with other players.

well, if they make a Necromancer, then POOF you have your companions

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Its a good idea. Some MMO's have this feature. It would enable those of us who dislike grouping to play content that we would otherwise be unable too.

Hopefully this will be added at some point.

And here is the player type ruining MMOs. /sigh

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Nah.
Its a MMO.
Want a proper companion? Find some player to group with!

lol take a look at swtor companion system..one of the greatest things ever.

No it is not. It was interesting but not greatest thing ever.

you have a small character in PvE content that follows you, aid you in combat, has a cool lore and story, it can replace healer/dps/tank in dungeons while your are in queue, adds a RP layer to the game - those are pro's

and what are cons??? None bro...if you hate it just unsummon it..ESO can already be done without help in solo pve questing so why not have a companion like we had in other TES games.

If there was companions maybe new players could be able to do all Dolmens, World Bosses and Public Dungeons.

Sorcs with pets get to use them for additional tank, dps, or healing. A few of the quests assign you an NPC follower who does one of those roles. It would be easy to make that a more permanent feature outside Cyrodil, and it isn't so powerful it wrecks the game (if it was, the game is wrecked when a second player shows up).

That said, it's not likely ZOS will do it, they seem to think everyone likes grouping and PVP, and not "Elder Scrolls with Friends".

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Its a good idea. Some MMO's have this feature. It would enable those of us who dislike grouping to play content that we would otherwise be unable too.

Hopefully this will be added at some point.

And here is the player type ruining MMOs. /sigh

And here is the player type who has a narrow view of what an MMO is. /sigh.

Narrow view? You don't seem to understand what MMO stands for. If you want to talk about narrow, let's talk about your narrow understanding of what an MMO is.

You want a multiplayer drop in drop out game, they make those.

/ruining a genre

The problem with npc "hirelings" is that any npc in game has very limited AI.
In those mmos that offer npcs for dungeons, said npc usually just zerg rush everything.. Not sure how this will work in eso dungeons. They would need a unique AI pattern for pretty much every dungeon - for example, focus black shadow adds in vFungal if someone is pinned down, run in different directions if they got the beam on that boss, take pinions/close portals on planar inhibitor, properly tank adds on the last boss in vCoH...

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

The problem with npc "hirelings" is that any npc in game has very limited AI.
In those mmos that offer npcs for dungeons, said npc usually just zerg rush everything.. Not sure how this will work in eso dungeons. They would need a unique AI pattern for pretty much every dungeon - for example, focus black shadow adds in vFungal if someone is pinned down, run in different directions if they got the beam on that boss, take pinions/close portals on planar inhibitor, properly tank adds on the last boss in vCoH... Basically devs would need to write a special AI scenario for every boss encounter in vet dungeons, which is very hard to implement.

I think we can actually achieve better results by having a limited build with a specific function. Given that we only have 5 active skills, having NPC hirelings have one active skill bar and a buff bar would pretty much make them tailor suited to a specific purpose. That way the majority of the AI can focus on evasion, blocking, etc.

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Its a good idea. Some MMO's have this feature. It would enable those of us who dislike grouping to play content that we would otherwise be unable too.

Hopefully this will be added at some point.

And here is the player type ruining MMOs. /sigh

And here is the player type who has a narrow view of what an MMO is. /sigh.

Narrow view? You don't seem to understand what MMO stands for. If you want to talk about narrow, let's talk about your narrow understanding of what an MMO is.

You want a multiplayer drop in drop out game, they make those.

/ruining a genre

No I think its you who doesn't understand what MMO stands for. "Group" and "Multiplayer" are two different words.

There is clearly a sizable growing demand for solo play in these games, which is why other MMOs have hirelings. These games are still going strong. Those that want to group do so. Those that just want to use hirelings, do so.

What you call ruining a genre, others would call a useful and helpful feature. Its all a matter of perspective. You don't like mine? Tough.

A growing demand of solo content in a massively multiplayer online game is a death of a genre. Sorry you can't comprehend what an MMO is.

You know what's a useful feature to an MMO? Dynamic content. Content scales to party size. Does this game have it? Nope.

The more solo content they push into this game, the less it defines itself as an MMO.

But that's kind of my point. I see it as an evolution of the genre, rather than a death. All we are talking about is a small hireling that enables somebody to play harder content, like soloing dolmens for those of use who are not as good as others and maybe getting undaubted skill line etc. Not replacing co-ordinated 12 man raids or PVP.

Roleplaying and all other kinds of playstyles all have a place. I do not think that group play would suffer hugely, at least not in the way you are saying.

Zorrashi wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Its a good idea. Some MMO's have this feature. It would enable those of us who dislike grouping to play content that we would otherwise be unable too.

Hopefully this will be added at some point.

And here is the player type ruining MMOs. /sigh

And here is the player type who has a narrow view of what an MMO is. /sigh.

Narrow view? You don't seem to understand what MMO stands for. If you want to talk about narrow, let's talk about your narrow understanding of what an MMO is.

You want a multiplayer drop in drop out game, they make those.

/ruining a genre

No I think its you who doesn't understand what MMO stands for. "Group" and "Multiplayer" are two different words.

There is clearly a sizable growing demand for solo play in these games, which is why other MMOs have hirelings. These games are still going strong. Those that want to group do so. Those that just want to use hirelings, do so.

What you call ruining a genre, others would call a useful and helpful feature. Its all a matter of perspective. You don't like mine? Tough.

A growing demand of solo content in a massively multiplayer online game is a death of a genre. Sorry you can't comprehend what an MMO is.

You know what's a useful feature to an MMO? Dynamic content. Content scales to party size. Does this game have it? Nope.

The more solo content they push into this game, the less it defines itself as an MMO.

So long as the game has the ability to see and interact with a massive amount of other players, ESO will always be an MMO.
The abundance or lack of group or solo content will not change this.

Just as group content should be produced in MMOs, so should solo content.

The version you're describing is called multiplayer game. The ability of a game to just make it so we can see other players and have minimal interaction with them gives a publisher more reason to charge MMO prices to a single player game. Cash shops are just as lucrative as a subscription.

It's the death of a genre. Solo content in an MMO, especially an MMOrpg is an oxymoron.

Spottswoode wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

The problem with npc "hirelings" is that any npc in game has very limited AI.
In those mmos that offer npcs for dungeons, said npc usually just zerg rush everything.. Not sure how this will work in eso dungeons. They would need a unique AI pattern for pretty much every dungeon - for example, focus black shadow adds in vFungal if someone is pinned down, run in different directions if they got the beam on that boss, take pinions/close portals on planar inhibitor, properly tank adds on the last boss in vCoH... Basically devs would need to write a special AI scenario for every boss encounter in vet dungeons, which is very hard to implement.

I think we can actually achieve better results by having a limited build with a specific function. Given that we only have 5 active skills, having NPC hirelings have one active skill bar and a buff bar would pretty much make them tailor suited to a specific purpose. That way the majority of the AI can focus on evasion, blocking, etc.

Yeah, but what about bosses with special mechanics? For example, a spider daedra boss in veteran crypt of hearts. If she coccoons a player, a npc would need to free him/her. Also, said npcs would need to evade lightning circle if its casted on them.
Or Lord Warden boss in vICP. Npcs that will just mindlessly attack him will screw up the portal mechanic.
Or Flesh sculptor in the same dungeon. Npc would need a special AI pattern for this fight to throw grenades, bash the boss when he tenderizes a player etc.
Or Ash Titan in vCoA. How a npc tank would kite an air atro add? If he would just stay there, he will die in fire...
Or Planar Inhibitor in WGT. Npcs might get portals, and they would need to pick the pinion...
And this is just a few examples...

The NPC scripts make it use any objective within reach, activate nearby objects, roll out of any active AOE, and can be directed the same way pets are now by the person who summoned it. It's still going to be a bloody idiot, but it's good enough to fill in a spot temporarily.

Well, seeing how often new players are dying to the boss mechanics (and even the most clueless player is 100 times smarter than eso npcs), I cant imagine how this could be implemented.

Spottswoode wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

The problem with npc "hirelings" is that any npc in game has very limited AI.
In those mmos that offer npcs for dungeons, said npc usually just zerg rush everything.. Not sure how this will work in eso dungeons. They would need a unique AI pattern for pretty much every dungeon - for example, focus black shadow adds in vFungal if someone is pinned down, run in different directions if they got the beam on that boss, take pinions/close portals on planar inhibitor, properly tank adds on the last boss in vCoH... Basically devs would need to write a special AI scenario for every boss encounter in vet dungeons, which is very hard to implement.

I think we can actually achieve better results by having a limited build with a specific function. Given that we only have 5 active skills, having NPC hirelings have one active skill bar and a buff bar would pretty much make them tailor suited to a specific purpose. That way the majority of the AI can focus on evasion, blocking, etc.

Yeah, but what about bosses with special mechanics? For example, a spider daedra boss in veteran crypt of hearts. If she coccoons a player, a npc would need to free him/her. Also, said npcs would need to evade lightning circle if its casted on them.
Or Lord Warden boss in vICP. Npcs that will just mindlessly attack him will screw up the portal mechanic.
Or Flesh sculptor in the same dungeon. Npc would need a special AI pattern for this fight to throw grenades, bash the boss when he tenderizes a player etc.
Or Ash Titan in vCoA. How a npc tank would kite an air atro add? If he would just stay there, he will die in fire...
Or Planar Inhibitor in WGT. Npcs might get portals, and they would need to pick the pinion...
And this is just a few examples...

The NPC scripts make it use any objective within reach, activate nearby objects, roll out of any active AOE, and can be directed the same way pets are now by the person who summoned it. It's still going to be a bloody idiot, but it's good enough to fill in a spot temporarily.

Well, seeing how often new players are dying to the boss mechanics (and even the most clueless player is 100 times smarter than eso npcs), I cant imagine how this could be implemented.

It's based on a logic routine. The bot doesn't think, it just follows its priorities. Also, since its functions are limited it can't try to do something stupid. It still CAN do something stupid though, but that would largely depend on the bot and players handling it.

DDO's hirelings aren't all that complicated but can fill most of the basic functions of their class without being told to. Some of the more complex ones or tricky ones (traps, for example) are carefully directed by players. It's really going to depend on the amount of control players will have over the bots. If you can change the bots priorities in combat, like a toggle on the bot, you could pretty easily adapt it in semi-real time.

Yeah, you said it yourself - a bot cannot think, it can only repeat its script. While we need strategy for certain dungeons, so the bot would need special set of commands for every encounter that includes special mechanics. Just "dodge roll out of red and spam breath of life" wont suffice unless you make the bots immune to pretty much anything, which would be pretty op and unfair to those who prefer to run dungeons with friends.
Lets see how it would work in particular boss fight, Gamyne Bandu (spelling?), second boss in Fungal Grotto.
She has some special tricks - catching a player so the rest of the group must focus one of the adds and a beam that can be broken if affected people run away from each other. Both of these mechanics are pretty unique, so they would need a special script. Because if a player is caught by shades, and mobs will be randomly attacking different shades/boss, that player will die. Or if the mobs wont break the beam, they will also die. Universal AI patternt wont work in this case as these are unique mechanics.
Building even semi-working AI for this purpose will require enourmous amounts of time and money and will likely cause a ton of QQ on forums ("I bough a team, and it cant carry me through WGT, **** Zos!"). So imo its not worth it. A mediocre team is easy to find anyway.
P.S. Micro-control is not the best idea for eso as well, as this game's combat in pretty fast and requires some degree of situational awareness. So having to control the bots will make fights harder than they're supposed to be.